Archives

The mainstream production car that averages over 70mpg is now a reality (in Europe). (http://cars.uk.msn.com/greenmotoring/article.aspx?cp-documentid=1379476)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/2007_VW_Polo_BlueMotion.jpgMSN Cars UK - July 1, 2008

The mainstream production car that averages over 70mpg is now a reality. Here, we've looked at the 10 most economical cars on sale in Britain - and know what? Not a single one does less than 65 to the gallon.

SEAT Ibiza Ecomotive, 74.3mpg
The Spanish company's tidy three-door supermini shoots straight to the top of our fuel-efficiency chart, courtesy of well-judged aero mods and an incredibly economical 1.4-litre turbodiesel engine. Gear ratios normally seen on intercontinental trains, plus tweaks here and there to reduce friction, boost economy to a remarkable 74.3mpg.

Yet don't think it's slug-like. It still hits 60mph in 12.8 seconds and goes on to 109mph. When has economical driving ever been this satisfying? It even gets air con as standard, for £10,995 all-in. Impressive enough, you know, for MSN Cars to consider running one as a long-termer! Watch this space...http://cars.uk.msn.com/greenmotoring/article.aspx?cp-documentid=1379476

Thanks for posting that. I think it's really important for people to be aware that automakers could be selling us cars that blow away the proposed 35mpg average the government is trying to impose on them by 2020. They are lying to us here in the US. The only limits are the ones we and our government have put on ourselves.

Assuming those are UK gallons,
75 Imp mpg = 62.5 US mpg (highest listed in the article is 74.3)
70 Imp mpg = 58.3 US mpg
65 Imp mpg = 54.1 US mpg (lowest listed in the article is 65.7)

Then again, if we're talking about CAFE mpg, those are probably about right. My civic is rated 37 / 49 for CAFE.

One thing that puzzled me, though, is why the author seems to think air conditioning is a plus. In Britain? Heater, yes. A really good demisting system, certainly. But unless global warming has gone a lot further than I thought since I last was in Britain, one might think of using A/C one or two days a year.

Boy, you guys sure know how to make me MAD! Not 1 less than 65MPG. Why don't we have them here?

I will tell you what I think. I think that they are not here because of the unmitigated greed the big .0003 (and, of course, the oil industry) have exhibited to keep them out. "We don't need the competition" they would say, with a smug look.

And how did they keep them out? That's a no brainier. They paid off our honorable officials to make them environmental no-no's. These are environmentally bad. Silverado's and SUV are OK. It's about the same mentality as the cop who pulls over the hypermiler for going too slow knowing that he has been so lax on speeders that 95% of the population routinely speeds with no fear of doing it at all! Enforcement of speeding is a cruel, deadly joke.

Until we clean up our government, I do not expect much progress. We are getting the government we deserve.:mad:

One thread of gold here, not 1 of them was a Ford, GM or Chrysler. Guess they aren't doing that well there either.:rolleyes:

I'll take one! Any one.


Greg

I suppose that boatloads of these 10 cars are now on their way across the Atlantic, right? Detroit may want to kick some of the hurdles out of the way and get busy. Maybe we could get Harry "Give 'Em Hell Harry" Truman back to make this work. I'd be real happy to get 70 MPG +/- from a car.

In the meantime, I'll keep riding the city bus. Even cooler, my wife is now riding the bus almost every day. My ride: OCTA bus #54.

And how about small, fuel efficient diesels for 1/2 T and smaller pickups?

Faithful and True.

note - these are safe substantial cars - they are sold in Germany and cruise at 85 - 100 MPH on the A-bahn (of course not at 70 MPG)

These would be perfect as primary transportation for 3 person families, young couples, singles

They would be perfect as a second car for everyone else

Anybody know why the Smart Diesel didn't make the list? I know that they can't bring it over here because it is too underpowered :ccry:, but I thought they were selling in Europe and getting 80+ mpg?

There's actually a much simpler reason than the "corporate greed" conspiracy that so many people like to cling on to. The US has much higher safety standards than Europe, and many of the ultra sub-compact cars do not meet side-impact standards. Even if some of these cars are sold in other forms, like the Mini Cooper, these versions are so fuel efficient because they are much lighter from being stripped down. In many instances the weight that is being reduced is structural steel that protects you in a crash. If you want a 50 mpg car (and a lot of these are actually in the mid to upper 50's in US mpg) then go out and buy an old 3 cylinder Geo Metro. Yeah, we actually had cars like that in the US, but they didn't sell. Maybe now that gas is $4 a gallon, they would be a little more fasionable.

...go out and buy an old 3 cylinder Geo Metro. Yeah, we actually had cars like that in the US, but they didn't sell.

If they didn't sell, then how come there are dozens of used ones on eBay & Craigslist right now?

It's just another face of the "Americans don't want small cars" myth. Lots of people did buy small cars in the '80s and '90s, and are still buying them today. (OK, make that even six months ago, before the most recent oil price spike.) Look at the Mini, the VW Bug, Honda Fit, and more. All flops, right?

It's a question of separating perception - and a distorted perception that US automakers have worked hard to create, at that - from reality. There's a large segment of the auto-buying public that has no strong preference, but which simply goes along with what's popular. If the automakers spend enough on advertising to create the impression that everyone is buying SUVs (or that they're safe, etc), then that's what they'll buy. But work just as hard to create the perception that small cars are "where it's at", and they'll switch.

The "smaller cars aren't safe enough" argument doesn't explain why Honda only sells the Fit with a 1.5L engine, when they sell a 1.3 and 1.2 in other markets. Or a civic with a diesel. Same with Toyota and Yaris - 1.3 and 1.0 engines are available.

The Mini Cooper doesn't meet US safety standards ?

The VW Lupo ?

If US safety standards are so high, then why are European cars scoring so much higher than US cars in empirical safety statistics ?

Do you think the oil companies are artificially raising prices on diesel fuel to keep these cars from being attractive as imports? Diesel should cost less to refine and the demand should not have gone up more than gasoline over the past couple of years.

Greg

Utra Low Sulfur Diesel is one reason the cost has gone up. It takes more work to refine crude into the new, better diesel fuel. It shouldn't be that much, though.

I looked up the weight of the euro clubman (1250 kg) and the u.s. clubman (2,756 lbs.). They both weigh the same.

Greg

I agree that it isn't an evil conspiricy of short sighted corporate interests to keep these cars away from US consumers.

Why would a business spend any effort bringing these types of cars to the US that he is likely to make $500 margin on if he is lucky ?

It was soooo much easier to make a huge pick-up sell it for an obscene mark-up and walk away with $5,000 margin.


Consumers were stupid enough to overpay for FSPs - thats why we don't have these 65+ MPG cars here

I'm really happy this kind of information is being made public. Detroit has done a fantastic job of making us think we don't have any better options with today's technology. When I read that article I just about pissed myself.

I've personally printed out this article and posted it at my cube. I've also posted it on myspace. I tell everyone I know about it. I think if people know there are more options they will ask for them. And ultimately we get what we ask for with our $$$. We've spent a long time asking for bigger more powerful cars. If we start asking our local dealers for cars like this, then they'll pass that along. In the 70's people started asking for more efficient cars and we got them. I can happen again. I'm looking forward to heading down to the VW dealership and asking about the Polo Blue Motion. I'm sure the sales guys are clueless and will be shocked to know they could have something to compete with the Prius' sales.

(Though I'd rather have a pure EV)

Tell the VW salesguys that the Polo has a bigger wheelbase than a MKII Golf - that'll floor them

Utra Low Sulfur Diesel is one reason the cost has gone up. It takes more work to refine crude into the new, better diesel fuel. It shouldn't be that much, though.
ULSD started coming out of refineries 2 years ago. The US didn't start seeing jump in diesel prices until maybe 10 months ago? I hear the ULSD cost argument a lot but have a hard time believing it.

Worldwide, there is a shortage of diesel. Europe makes a much diesel as they can from a barrel of oil, and sell us the excess gasoline from that barrel (tax on gas there is much heavier than on diesel). China's diesel use has gone up much faster than their gas consumption. I've read that we actually export some diesel, because it is worth more on the world market than here. I haven't been able to confirm that.

If you want a car in the US that gets the mpg's of these european cars, you'll just have to do what I did and make one for yourself. Take a 50mpg car from the early 90's and aero mod it to increase its highway mileage. I have no problem knocking out well over 75mpg during a 65mph cruise down a interstate and mine's not even a diesel. I'm still waiting to see someone do a similar aero treatment to an Insight, Prius, or Golf and see what kind of highway mileage improvement they get with those vehicles.

Another factor we missed is that in the UK, the measure MPG based on Imperial Gallons. 1 Imperial Gallon = 1.2 US gallons. So a car that gets 74 MPG in the UK would get 62 MPG US. Still not bad, though.