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Diesel, hybrid versions of Ford's big SUV in works. (http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060628/FREE/60626009/1024/LATESTNEWS)

Richard Truett - Automotive News - June 29, 2006

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/07_Ford_Expedition.jpg
2007 Ford Expedition FWD
Base sticker price: $33,000
Estimated mpg: 14 city/19 highway
2006 U.S. sales: 34,381 through May
2005 U.S. sales: 48,999 for comparable 5 months
Inventory: 23,700, or an 82-day supplySource: Kelley Blue Book, Automotive News Data Center

To combat high fuel prices that are bedeviling sales of big, profitable SUVs, Ford Motor Co. plans to offer a more fuel-efficient version of the Expedition. The vehicle could be powered by either a new European V-8 diesel engine or a gasoline-electric hybrid powertrain.

"We have hybrids and diesels under development," said Derrick Kuzak, Ford's group vice president of product development for the Americas.

Kuzak declined to give a time frame for the effort or confirm plans for a new, fuel-efficient Expedition. But a Ford source who spoke on condition of anonymity said the company would have a higher-mileage, full-sized SUV that would compete with hybrid versions of big SUVs planned by General Motors.

Such a vehicle could be ready for production around 2010.

Ford is under pressure to find ways to sell more Expeditions. U.S. sales of the SUV fell 29.8 percent through May compared with the same period in 2005. Dealers had 23,700 Expeditions in stock as of June 1, an 82-day supply.

Hybrid-truck competition

A diesel or hybrid version of the Expedition would enable Ford to compete with the hybrid versions of General Motors' Chevrolet Tahoe and GMC Yukon, coming in the fall of 2007, and the Chrysler group's Dodge Durango, scheduled for 2008.

GM's hybrid SUVs are expected to deliver a 25 percent gain in fuel economy over today's models, pushing fuel economy of the 5,500-pound SUVs into the mid-20s mpg.

GM, DaimlerChrysler and BMW are working together on a hybrid transmission, called the Two-Mode for rear-wheel-drive vehicles. The Two-Mode is a conventional four-speed automatic transmission with two electric motors used to boost fuel economy in the city and on the highway.

The Two-Mode starts production in about 15 months. GM plans to introduce it on the Tahoe, Yukon and Cadillac Escalade SUVs.

Ford is trying to gauge consumer interest in the hybrid and diesel powertrains. A link on the Expedition section of the Ford Web site asks consumers which future options they would want to buy. On the list are a 4.5-liter V-8 diesel engine and a 4.6-liter V-8 gasoline-electric hybrid powertrain, both priced at $2,500.

The diesel appears to be a bigger version of the new 3.6-liter engine offered in Land Rovers sold in Europe. The diesel engine would be relatively quick and inexpensive for Ford to install compared to the hybrid.

Ford has focused its hybrid activities on front- and all-wheel-drive vehicles, such as the Escape, Mercury Mariner and Mazda Tribute. The automaker does not currently have a rear-wheel-drive hybrid powertrain transmission program for its F-series trucks and truck-based SUVs.

Ford-GM cooperation?

Auto analyst Jim Hall of AutoPacific in suburban Detroit says that if Ford engineers started today designing a rear-wheel-drive hybrid transmission similar to the GM-DaimlerChrysler-BMW gearbox, it would take a minimum of 3½ to 4 years before it could be ready for production.

But Ford could buy the Two-Mode from GM. The gearbox was designed to be easily adapted to other makes of vehicles. And GM, which will build the transmission in its Baltimore plant, has been trying aggressively to sell it to other automakers.

GM and Ford have talked about Ford's using the Two-Mode. The two automakers already have a joint transmission project beginning production this summer -- a six-speed automatic for front-wheel-drive cars.

For the Two-Mode to fit in the Expedition, Ford engineers would need to redesign two simple parts: the faceplate that mounts the engine to the transmission and the rear tail shaft or flange, where the driveshaft attaches.

Ford's hybrid team would have to write the software that controls the gasoline-electric powertrain. The company is an industry leader in this area.

Kuzak said Ford is looking at all options. "Right now we are looking at a variety of alternatives in terms of a (transmission) for our hybrids, that's in-house and working with external suppliers."

Kuzak would not say when either powertrain would be ready for production in the Expedition. But he acknowledged Ford needs such a vehicle.

"Right now as we look at what is required for competitiveness in fuel economy, for customers' unmet needs for fuel economy and for environmental considerations, we need to look at a variety of technologies -- hybrids, diesel engines, better gasoline engines, better electrical systems to minimize parasitic losses.

"All of those technologies need to be pursued, developed and understood for our cars and trucks."

and the estimated MPG is now 14-19.......BWHAHAHAHAH

the best way to make these things more fuel efficient is to take away the keys........period

I think there will always be a market for the biggish SUVs. Hey, some folks have plenty of $$, and just don't care about the potential consequences of our dependence on oil( paying for the nuke that will go off in NY harbor, global warming, economic disruption/depression etc).If the buyer is making $150K/yr then $6 gas and 12mpg isn't a big deal.
What GM ,Ford etc can do be be responsible citizens is to make these bricks as fuel efficient as possible. I think a 30 mpg (HY) is possible for a Suburban sized vehicle, and an honest 22 mpg city is also possible. Suburbans can get an honest 20 mpg now-according to owners I trust(this means level hy CC on at 62 mph or less-forget about 75 mph 20 mpg-that is BS). They need to clean it up considerably aero wise-heck lower it a bit,and give it flexible-maybe spring loaded- chin and side spoiler with quick release underbelly coverings.Give it a nose and tail like a Prius.I can't see any reason it should have more than 1.6X the drag of a Prius,and a Prius can get 50 mpg at 60+mph.A 4cyl gasoline hybrid-with GMs better hybrid system should do the trick.Maybe GM could keep developing their straight six and use it if they think they need more power than a 4 cyl (they should end up with a longish nose anyway, and it will leave more room for the hybrid drive than a V-8).BMW has some very nice straight sixes-use a smallish one-smaller than GMs 4.2( or destroke the 4.2).Finally drop some weight-aim for a 4600 lb 2wd Suburban.Yes, dropping 800 lbs would be expensive, but it would discourage buying by folks who don't really "need" one.
Taxing Vehicle weight would be a good way to encourage efficient vehicles.A yearly tax on weight and miles. If affluent folks want a guzzler,let them pay for it every year.Use 3200-3400 lb curb weight as a base, no tax weight, and increase from there.Tax a 5000 lbs vehicle at least 4X what a 4000 lb vehicle-say $1000/yr vs $250/yr.
Oh well.I'm running on.Thanks,Charlie

and the estimated MPG is now 14-19.......BWHAHAHAHAH

For the record, the similarly sized 2006 GMC Yukon 1500 (not the XL) AWD shows a rating of 13/17 at fueleconomy.gov. The Expedition's fuel economy is in line with GM's SUV's prior to the 2007 model year.

For the record, the similarly sized 2006 GMC Yukon 1500 (not the XL) AWD shows a rating of 13/17 at fueleconomy.gov. The Expedition's fuel economy is in line with GM's SUV's prior to the 2007 model year.

maybe i read it wrong above. i thought they were saying 14-19 is the new rating:confused:

My point was simply that they are playing catch-up to GM, essentially, and certainly behind.

I drive a 2001 Expedition and only get about 11 miles to the gallon. The little driving I do is all in town. Do I get credit for walking the kids to school, park etc...and I consolidate errands? A tank (26 Gal) usually lasts about 2 weeks. It would be great to get better mileage, every little bit helps the environment right?
I am trying and I am here to learn, please don't take my keys ;)

I drive a 2001 Expedition and only get about 11 miles to the gallon. The little driving I do is all in town. Do I get credit for walking the kids to school, park etc...and I consolidate errands? A tank (26 Gal) usually lasts about 2 weeks. It would be great to get better mileage, every little bit helps the environment right?
I am trying and I am here to learn, please don't take my keys ;)
Since your here to learn I don't think we'll have to take away your keys...not yet anyway.;) I realize you are probably stuck with payments but perhaps when the time comes you will consider a more fuel efficient vehicle. Until then, we'll have to work with what you have. It seems to me that I recall Wayne helping a news crew to increase the FE of their Expedition. I'm sure he'll be along in a bit to give some advice.

My point was simply that they are playing catch-up to GM, essentially, and certainly behind.Well looking at the Hybrid fleets of GM and the Hybrid fleet of Ford, I would argue that Ford has much more advanced Hybrid tech working and in market than GM does. The Ford SUV hybridization netted a larger increase (%) in FE than GM's. Ford did 7% better than GM and brought it to market 3 years earlier. I think Fords lead over GM's hybrid efforts will be much larger when comparing the 2009 FEH with the 2009 Tahoe Hybrid.

Honestly I don't think any car maker is playing catchup to GM....

11011011

I drive a 2001 Expedition and only get about 11 miles to the gallon. The little driving I do is all in town. Do I get credit for walking the kids to school, park etc...and I consolidate errands? A tank (26 Gal) usually lasts about 2 weeks. It would be great to get better mileage, every little bit helps the environment right?
I am trying and I am here to learn, please don't take my keys ;)
please, don't let us scare you away. that post started almost 2 years ago, and it was heavily tinged with sarcasm on my part (probably considered my usual frame of mind).

sounds like you are doing well in avoiding having to use it too much, and look at the quality time your kids get to spend with you on the way to and from that park. that's a good thing, which is too often missing in our lives.

welcome!

For those making the big $$$, they don't care about gas prices, nor driving for max fuel economy! :rolleyes: