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“The evidence is mounting that the conversation itself is the risk, not holding the phone...” (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25379642/)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/cell_phone.jpgHerb Weisbaum - MSNBC - June 26, 2008

Maybe it's best to let the caller leave a message or at least not pickup the phone in heavy traffic -- Ed.

We all see it and many of us do it – chat on a cell phone as we drive. We know it’s distracting, but we convince ourselves we can handle it. Some people now use a hands-free device, believing it reduces the risk.

“I’m able to put two hands on the steering wheel and I’m able to concentrate on what’s going on around me,” says Romell Witherspoon of Renton, Wash.
… http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25379642/

University of Utah psychology professor David Strayer has studied driver distraction for years. He says talking on the phone causes what’s called “inattention blindness.” The driver looks but does not always see things that are there, such as pedestrians, stop signs, traffic signals, or other vehicles.

Strayer uses simulators and sophisticated eye-tracking devices to see precisely where a test driver is looking. “They see about half of what they would normally see,” he says, “because talking on a cell phone has diverted attention from processing the information you need to be a safe driver.”

This is another reason why motorcyclist deaths are up. It's far too easy to not perceive the existence of a motorcyclists, especially one who is doing nothing to make himself more visible, and with cell phones, as the article finds, it's that much worse.

In New York there is a law against driving and talking on a hand-held cell phone. It's a bad joke, as law enforcement makes no attempt to enforce it, and a very high percentage of drivers are yakking on a hand-held while driving.

By the way, there is at least one study that links higher rates of brain tumors to cell phone use.

Harry

Someone at work who is not a member here had a story. While I sympathize, I don't necessarily endorse what he did.

He was witnissing a woman in an SUV weaving wildly past him, ear glued on the phone. One or two miles later, she was in a wreck. He rolled down the window and laughed as loud as possible.

Of course, this is a very bad example - most multitask better...she might have been DUI on top of everything else. I know some who can dial and drive with no problems, too.

I don't know the solution, but may I humbly suggest the AAA devote more press releases on this topic instead? ;)

Ever watch a pedestrian engaged in a cell phone conversation the circuitous path they define seems to me to show the level of concentration a person puts into conversing. As a Ham I know how distratcting a simplex contact is while driving but duplex on a cell phone is much more. Jonathan.

My biggest pet peeve on the road are women between 16 and 40 with the phone glued to their ear. Like was said before they drive erratically or very slow and extremely cautious. I was behind one in the last week or two where I got to stop for every signal because it was easier for her to talk while at a red light than when driving.
About 10 years ago I followed a Jeep CJ from just outside of Pittsburgh to Cleveland Oh. The young lady driving never once put down the phone during the trip.
She drove fine and I matched her cruise control speed all along the Pa and Ohio Turnpike.
It was just amazing to a guy who hates his mobile phone, how someone could talk for over two hours while driving. I only have mine for work and when I travel.

Damn I wish I could afford a cell phone jammer and I wish it would be legal to own one in this country. Doctors are also bad for this. What makes them worse is their feeling of superiority and entitlement contributes to their reckless speeding in traffic. They usually have a ready excuse of racing to a heart emergency in order to get out of a ticket. To help resist temptation to talk on the phone, when you get in the car either turn off the phone or throw it in the back seat. My wife, she has a small cup holder mounted on her AC vent just for her cell phone. Makes it easy to hear it ring, see who's calling, and quickly grab it to start yakking away. The nurses here are on the phone before they even leave the hospital and continue talking even as they're driving through the parking tower. Oh, and yes, the doctors and nurses do use their cell phones in areas where they aren't allowed including surgery. Remember the entitlement attitude? The special treatment doctors receive at hospitals are a sore spot for us. Employees must pay full price to eat in the cafeteria where food is over priced and not very well cooked. However, doctors are treated to free meals cooked by chefs.

This article is spot on. Especially about the differences between a conversation with a passenger (which is still distracting) and talking on the cell. I've started turning off the cell when I get in the car and have get into the habit of doing that ALL the time. And if I must have a conversation, pull off the road to do it.

My experience is in line with this. I hate taking calls in the car (and usually don't) because it throws off my focus because I suddenly have to think about something else. I think it's a bit different when someone is in the car with you because the conversation moves around what the driver is doing, which the passenger is thinking about too. Not so with someone on the other end of a phone.

Me and my wife are apparently luddites, we don't own cell phones and never have.

I can't imagine what everyone is talking about, but my guess is 99% isn't important enough to justify the additional hazard.

A psychology professor I had at Kansas University is one of the leading proponents in the banning of cell phone in cars. Dr. Atchley (might be miss spelled) has battled the likes of Sprint in debates on how much attention is focused on the call rather then driving. His studies are on par with David Strayer's and has found that talking while in the car is just as bad as being intoxicated.

A recent statistic stated that just over 70% of cell phone use happens while in a vehicle. It is this reason that the "Suits" (or lobbyists) from every major cell phone company battle to keep phones in the car.

My professor stated that it is only a matter of time before an organization similar to MADD forms to promote the banning of cell phone use in cars.

The story he shared with us was pretty chilling:

A woman wrecked her car and in doing so seriously injured herself and her child. When the car flipped her arm went out the open window and was severed at the elbow. The cell phone she had been using was found in the hand of the detached arm.

When I'm riding shotgun on a longish trip somtimes I keep stats on the drivers/vehicles in the neighboring lane. One of my favorites is driver cell phone usage by apparent age and gender. The percentage varies a lot by time and location. I've seen the % of women under 50 using the cellphone while driving as high as 100% for I-80 mid-week mid-morning between Davenport and Iowa City, Iowa. The % of men over 50 on the phone while driving is usually close to zero. I'm pretty sure the gal who rear-ended me when I stopped for a red light was on the phone at the time. :rolleyes:

I use my phone occasionally while I'm driving, but rarely in heavy traffic and I tell callers I'm driving so please keep it short. Last week was typical; 1 two minute phone call from a subcontractor out of around 15 hours of driving.

It doesn't seem like cell phones should be any worse than using a CB, but casual observation suggests that it is. I think the problem is really the attitude of the driver. Take as an example my boss, he deliberately uses his driving time to catch up on returning calls--the idea is that he doesn't want to "waste" time driving. His attitude seems to be that driving isn't worthy of much time and attention. Riding with him scares the hell out of me. I think his attitude and behavior are typical for many people.

Man, I'm so guilty. I blew a red yesterday just because I was on the phone. Luckily for me there weren't any police around. I usually don't talk on the phone driving but I gave in this time. I should have been bagged for that one though, it would have taught me good.

Ever watch a pedestrian engaged in a cell phone conversation the circuitous path they define seems to me to show the level of concentration a person puts into conversing. As a Ham I know how distratcting a simplex contact is while driving but duplex on a cell phone is much more. Jonathan.

Here's my cellphone story.

I was at school one day. The building was a 10 story building with something like 8 or so classrooms on each floor. Anyways, we were having a test so we were all getting out at different times. I get out of class and I go to the elevator area and hit the "down" button so an elevator would come to pick me up.

There's some other guy jabbering on a cell phone, he was there before me, and he had hit the up button before me. I guess he needed to go to the library or something. So an elevator arrives, and the up arrow by the elevator was flashing, indicating that it was going up. Jabbering cellphone guy walks into the elevator and just stands there talking on his phone. About 20 seconds later the elevator beeps and changes to a down arrow and then he gets out of it.

Yeah that's right, he just walks out onto the same floor he was on and said something like "Whoops I guess I missed that one". So I just stepped in and hit the 1 button to gtfo out there.

That's what cellphones do, make you forget to do simple things like hit the damn button in the elevator.

A psychology professor I had at Kansas University is one of the leading proponents in the banning of cell phone in cars. Dr. Atchley (might be miss spelled) has battled the likes of Sprint in debates on how much attention is focused on the call rather then driving. His studies are on par with David Strayer's and has found that talking while in the car is just as bad as being intoxicated.

A recent statistic stated that just over 70% of cell phone use happens while in a vehicle. It is this reason that the "Suits" (or lobbyists) from every major cell phone company battle to keep phones in the car.

My professor stated that it is only a matter of time before an organization similar to MADD forms to promote the banning of cell phone use in cars.

The story he shared with us was pretty chilling:

A woman wrecked her car and in doing so seriously injured herself and her child. When the car flipped her arm went out the open window and was severed at the elbow. The cell phone she had been using was found in the hand of the detached arm.I have wondered why MADD is not already in the fray on this issue - a reckless death is a reckless death.

Cell phone use is one of those issues that is could make life bad for all of us because of the bad apples...just like a classroom that is allowed to get out of hand, then the teacher swings in the other direction and you can't go to the bathroom.

We may get a bunch of anti drive and dial laws, and some will cry we are a Nanny State. Socialists are not the problem - it's the irresponsible people that prompted the laws!

It doesn't seem like cell phones should be any worse than using a CB, but casual observation suggests that it is. I think the problem is really the attitude of the driver.


True. CB Users concentrate on driving first and the CB second, while many cell-phone users split their attention equally.

Pilots are taught "ANC"- Aviate (Fly), Navigate, Communicate. With each having higher priority than the next. In other words, Concentrate on not crashing Before you figure out where you are, and get both done before you spare attention to tell ATC where you are.

Drivers should have the same priorities. Drive and talk if there's no traffic. Drop the call or the phone if the driving gets intense.

Can't resist - notice how the general public seems a lot more forgiving of distracted drivers on phones than hypermilers?

Sooner or later, someone will do their first FAS on a steep downhill with sharp curve at the bottom, and while doing the FAS, text message all their friends about it. The blame for the result of this appalling lack of judgement and attention will go to hypermiling.

The general public is more forgiving of distracted drivers on phones than on hypermilers because most of them are the former, and few are the latter!

I'm at the point now where I don't answer the phone in the car unless it is a very small subset of people who may have an emergency to communicate -- and I make it clear it must fit into 5s or so. Everything else goes to voicemail. I normally only initiate calls from the car that ask for directions when I'm unsure of a route -- those are usually mindlessly simple and very straight forward: "I'm at Turner Rd approaching Curve Rt -- what are my next 3 turns?"

Socialists are not the problem - it's the irresponsible people that prompted the laws!

Amen to that.

...most of them are the former, and few are the latter!

And to that as well. Many of societies most puzzling predicaments, right now, can not be solved due to what you have said Bike.

Man, I'm so guilty. I blew a red yesterday just because I was on the phone. Luckily for me there weren't any police around. I usually don't talk on the phone driving but I gave in this time. I should have been bagged for that one though, it would have taught me good.

Should read "Luckily for me there wasn't a minivan full of children around." I am sorry but safety is a lot more important than money out of someones pocket. Not picking on you or judging, just using what you said. I am guilty of using the phone in the car and I know I drive worse when talking and put other people in danger.

One positive step in my area is that cell phone use is banned in school zones. This is in Flower Mound, Texas.

There's no doubt in my mind that blabbing on a cell phone takes some part of a driver's focus away. This is why so many of them slow down 10 to 15 MPH when on the phone. Also, next time you see someone driving slow and talking on the phone get next to their vehicle and look at their face. You can tell that they are unable to focus on driving.

The new laws are a start, but more work lies ahead. In CA, officers don't ask, I'm told, about cell phone use during or just prior to an accident, so statistics don't exist here.

I've been riding the city bus to work since last summer and, sadly, cell phones are used there frequently. The problem is that most people yell in their phones which steps on everyone else's conversations.

Hang up and drive or pull over and gab!

Faithful and True.

When I started out as an electricianmore than 30 years ago, there were a couple of sayings in our trade, as follows:

1. If you can't work safely, you can't work.

2. There are 2 kinds of electricians: old and careless. But there are no old careless electricians.

Maybe the same is true of drivers.

Perhaps this forum, as part of it's safe driving recommendations, would also recommend not using cell phones while driving.

Faithful and True

“They see about half of what they would normally see,”...
That's frightening to a guy who rides a bicycle in a state that
wins the America's worse drivers award most years.


I have a 911 cell phone in my car that's very rarely used. (To report problems to the police).
And I also have a Ham radio rig. It's a real nice dual band VHF-UHF FM transceiver.
But, since I turned 50, I started using it less and less. Now that I'm 62, I need to pay
a lot more attention to the road, so the Ham rig is no longer used. Only when I'm parked. :)
It's just too distracting.


-------
I'm starting to worry about a new problem now. It's called a ScangaugeII.
It does tend to take my attention off my driving. So, I've placed it where I can
see it during my normal scan of the dash display. I almost make a mistake and
installed it in a open slot under the car radio.. It only took me a couple of
minutes sitting behind the wheel to realize my error.
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f147/Xringer/CRV/SG2.jpg
Now, I've got to train my eyes not to dwell on it..

When I use the GPS, I don't use the touch screen while driving. I start it up beforehand
and just listen to the spoken directions with only quick glances at the map display.
I really don't care if I miss an exit. There's always someplace down the road to turn around,
so if the GPS voice starts getting too distracting, I hit the mute button.

For me, the idea is to get there safely. Even if we're a few minutes late.

Glad to see more articles like this. Numerous studies have found that handsfree cellular use is just as dangerous as handheld. It always amazes me that this surprises people. What's the big deal about holding something in your hand, when 97% of Americans drive automatics anyway? It's the act of having a conversation with someone who isn't in the car with you.

IMO the new laws that ban handheld cellular use are just a way for cellphone companies to sell more equipment. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that they lobby FOR these laws.

I'll just point out here that talking on the cell phone to me often equals getting work done. If I can work, it makes it easier to swallow an extra 10 minutes in the car that comes from driving a little below the speed limit. Really - I drive on interstates where driving 50-60 mph is boring and the cell phone gives me something to do.

I don't beleive that using a cell phone with hands free device must distract, but it usually does. My wife can always tell when she called while I'm driving...I'm always much slower in responding to her and ask her to repeat things. I'm focused on the road 1st and her 2nd. And cell phones certainly arn't necessary. I'm putting a longer version in the "bad drivers" thread, but short version is I had a tailgating dad yelling into the back seat with hit head turning a good 100/120 degrees from the angle it should have been looking. You can't get more distracted than extended periods of not looking while driving high speeds.

I'll just point out here that talking on the cell phone to me often equals getting work done. If I can work, it makes it easier to swallow an extra 10 minutes in the car that comes from driving a little below the speed limit. Really - I drive on interstates where driving 50-60 mph is boring and the cell phone gives me something to do.

So, you want driving to be exciting? Excitement is exactly the reason I used to race.
IMHO, driving with all the nut-jobs on the same road is more than enough excitement for me.



From what I have heard from other drivers during my last 50 years behind the wheel,
almost everyone who hasn't been cause of a major accident, secretly thinks that
they are the world's best driver.

I don't know why people think like that. Just an ego thing I imaging. But the truth is,
a lot of these people are in denial. Around here, you can't swing a cat without hitting
three or four bad drivers. I live on a street where mail box posts are an endangered species.

My point is, you may think you can handle multi-tasking.. But in the real world,
you are also going to need luck too.. And we all know how fickle lady luck is..

I just can't agree that its equally as dangerous using a headset as holding the phone up to your head. As a manual driver, its very difficult to try to drive while holding a phone. i always use a wired headset IF I have to use the phone while driving. Leaves my right hand free to shift. I've noticed that I'm much more attentive while using a headset. I do agree, that carrying on a conversation is a distraction in itself but no more than talking to a passenger. Are we going to ban those next?

I admit I do talk on the phone when I drive, but driving is my first priority. I use a Bluetooth, and my calls are hands free. As for the conversation part, I beleive there is something to that, but some are worse than others. I know if I am in a situation where I have to think, I won't be listenning to the person speaking to me while I am doing it (like pulling out in traffic or making some sort of maneuver. It's not uncommon for one of us (usually one of my other friends that commute and live far away that I don't see much) to say, hold on, I've got to merge, or turn across traffic, etc. Or, I'll call you back, I am coming to a congested area. I think the problem is there are a lot of people that make the conversation priority. As a school teacher I've gotten good at hearing multiple conversations and holding a train of thought ;)... I've always been a pretty cautious person in general. However, I've caught myself doing more stupid things while not on the phone. I am more likely to go into a road hypnosis! While talking to someone, I find I actually stay more alert. Eyes first, ears second... I think most people are ears first, eyes second. I often ask people to repeat themselves.

Although, since hypermiling, I do find I talk less on the phone just because I am less inclined to think about it, and if the bluetooth isn't already in my ear, I don't answer it...

I just can't agree that its equally as dangerous using a headset as holding the phone up to your head. As a manual driver, its very difficult to try to drive while holding a phone. i always use a wired headset IF I have to use the phone while driving. Leaves my right hand free to shift. I've noticed that I'm much more attentive while using a headset. I do agree, that carrying on a conversation is a distraction in itself but no more than talking to a passenger. Are we going to ban those next?


My guess is about 94% of those chatting (and/or texting) are not driving a 5 speed manual..

"but no more than talking to a passenger."?? Did you read the whole story?
Or, maybe you didn't notice certain paragraphs because you were distracted by the phone?? :p LOL!


Hahah.. You are talking to a passenger and they stop in mid-word and they suddenly point and scream LOOK OUT! ..
As compared to talking to your buddy on the cell as you fail to notice the impending accident.

Mythbusters did a test and found that cell phone driving is as bad as drunk driving.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MythBusters_(season_3)#Cell_Phones_vs._Drunk_Driving

I admit I do talk on the phone when I drive, but driving is my first priority. I use a Bluetooth, and my calls are hands free. As for the conversation part, I beleive there is something to that, but some are worse than others. I know if I am in a situation where I have to think, I won't be listenning to the person speaking to me while I am doing it (like pulling out in traffic or making some sort of maneuver. It's not uncommon for one of us (usually one of my other friends that commute and live far away that I don't see much) to say, hold on, I've got to merge, or turn across traffic, etc. Or, I'll call you back, I am coming to a congested area. I think the problem is there are a lot of people that make the conversation priority. As a school teacher I've gotten good at hearing multiple conversations and holding a train of thought ;)... I've always been a pretty cautious person in general. However, I've caught myself doing more stupid things while not on the phone. I am more likely to go into a road hypnosis! While talking to someone, I find I actually stay more alert. Eyes first, ears second... I think most people are ears first, eyes second. I often ask people to repeat themselves.

Although, since hypermiling, I do find I talk less on the phone just because I am less inclined to think about it, and if the bluetooth isn't already in my ear, I don't answer it...

"I often ask people to repeat themselves." I hear that!!

When I was an active ham, I knew the priority rules. I kept the chat on the back-burner.
And of course the traffic rotary on Rt-2 always made me sound somewhat retarded.
After a while, I noticed that my buddies were starting to get mad at me for being so none-attentive to what they were saying.
That's when I realized that from their viewpoint, I was being very rude.
(And I must have sounded like a complete idiot)..

My advice is ditch the phone while driving. You may never kill anyone, but why increase your chances of doing so?

The first question to ask whenever you read such studies is: where are the dead bodies?

Well? If the talking-on-the-phone is so incredibly dangerous, there should be literally thousands of them at this point.

The data should be unambiguously clear.

Then we come to things like this:

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/us/0604/popup.risky.driving/frameset.exclude.html

This little ditty -- which is in fact in accordance with the ground truth -- was actually a link from a CNN story:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/04/20/driving.study/index.html

Can you say "burying the lede"?

As is usual with the media, small problems (e.g., using a cellphone behind the wheel) are overblown, and much larger, real dead-body-pile-up matters (e.g., driving while sleepy) are ignored.

I suggest www.cleanmpg.com get some perspective.

The first question to ask whenever you read such studies is: where are the dead bodies?

Well? If the talking-on-the-phone is so incredibly dangerous, there should be literally thousands of them at this point.




http://www.livescience.com/technology/050201_cell_danger.html
:rolleyes:

Cell phone distraction causes 2,600 deaths and 330,000 injuries in the United States every year, according to the journal's publisher, the Human Factors and Ergonomics Society.

Harry

As is usual with the media, small problems (e.g., using a cellphone behind the wheel) are overblown, and much larger, real dead-body-pile-up matters (e.g., driving while sleepy) are ignored.

However using a cell phone while sleepy just adds problems to problems. The cell phone is something we can create and enforce laws on, but how do you create a law about being sleepy. Its something we can't detect, and sometimes the person isn't even aware. Ultimatly, how many of us wake up, get dressed and start driving to work, but we dont' feel 100% yet. Sadly, I don't think I could not tell my boss I'm not driving in (yet), because I'm too sleepy and still expect to have a job.

We "must" get places and often we have to drive there, so we (everyone, not just hypermilers) sometimes drive when we are tired. But when are we too tired? Its rarely obvious. Like drinking, the more it effects you, the less you are able to judge yourself. However there are no breath tests for drowsy.

Hopefully, one day, there will be tech that helps us identify the problem and legislation that allows for enforcement (and which we can use to call the office and say, Can't come in...drowsy level above 25%).

What we really need to work on is making people understand their limitations and their responsiblities. And we need society to enforce to the point to whatever level is required. If someone keeps driving drunk, running red lights, agressive speeding or whatever....they eventually need to do the jail time equivilant to killing someone. That they got away with it safely isn't the point, its the unacceptable risk they bring to society. But that's a rather extreme view...in the mean time how do we educate people to what they are doing.

MDF, you are being rather harsh here. A large number of us deal with inattentive drivers daily -- many times avoid potentially deadly circumstances due in no small part to people chatting on the phone. As mentioned above, motorcyclists are dealing with severely increased odds of not being seen.

Personally, I've had a bike run over (while I was on it) by a car with a driver on a cell phone. I've also had several very near collisions when the other driver failed to look past his or her arm (conveniently in the field of view holding that phone to an ear while propping the elbow on the window sill) and tried to occupy the same space I was already in. I've witnessed odd swerves all over the road while people attempt to dial, glazed autopilot expressions as people got a scant 15' or so from my rear bumper before realizing there was another car in front, and cars creeping out into oncoming traffic because the driver was so engrossed in his or her conversation that he or she failed to notice insufficient pressure on the brake pedal.

I've been nearly run over in parking lots and crosswalks. I've witnessed people run into parked cars, buildings, parking meters, gas pumps, and street signs -- all while jabbering on a phone and looking terrified by the jolt of impact.

On a personal experience level, speaking on the phone takes a lot of concentration (just as writing does) simply because we rely so heavily upon nuances when communicating directly. Have you ever noticed just how difficult it is to avoid misunderstandings when communicating via written word? Speaking on the phone with no visual feedback is not quite as bad but still requires a lot more processing to infer the other party's intentions and thoughts. Chatting with a passenger is not nearly as mentally intensive an activity for more than simply the fact that the person is also aware of the surroundings -- a quick glance is sufficient to read body language to get the rest of the story we would otherwise have to ask for clarification of or attempt to figure out by context.

These reasons also apply well to the use of audio books and listening to talk radio. I typically even eschew straight instrumental music simply because as a musician I get caught up in how I would perform the music, add to it, or interpret it differently in different moods. In short, music is too much of an intellectual involvement for me so I avoid it when driving. I almost never eat or drink in my car either -- it takes focus off the road and ties up a hand.

You can choose to ignore this sort of data or you can take notice of the sometimes horrific consequences of engaging in activities other than those directly related to the task at hand when driving a vehicle. Perhaps your experiences differ from mine, but I can tell you that at least where I've been driving during my licensed years two things have made driving significantly more dangerous over the last decade -- increasing congestion and huge increase in cell phone use while driving.

It can be very dangerous out there -- keep an eye out for your safety!

I just find it hard to be convinced that using a handheld is no worse than using hands free. Most of the time when I see someone doing something stupid, the fist thing I look for is cell phone, and typically, it is a cell phone and it is handheld. Granted a conversation can be very distracting, and people can be idiots for just being on the phone, but just the nature of driving while holding something, regardless if it is a doughnut or a phone, it increases risk...

I do beleive their are people out there that can use a handsfree device and be safe... people just have to learn to stop living in a fog in general (thinking they are the only ones in existance at any given moment. )

http://www.livescience.com/technology/050201_cell_danger.html
:rolleyes:

I'm sorry, but no, those are not dead bodies: they are extrapolations from a model.

You can contrast this with the CNN URL I mentioned: that page reports actual, observed, accidents and their causes.

Those observations suggest that whatever the body count is for cellphone use, simply being sleepy while behind the wheel kills twice as many people. I would guess it would be a larger ratio, since cellphone users tend to driver slower, so their accidents will kill fewer people.

MDF, you are being rather harsh here.

Harsh? No way! The media knows a good troll when it sees one. Stories about driving are natural audience-makers, as everyone has an opinion (see Parkinson' Law, "The Color of the Bikeshed").

Fear is also a major contributor to audience construction. Who wants to hear good news, when a baby has been crushed to death in a car accident? We can all overlook the lie of the conflation of relative and absolute risks when it comes to the children, no?

Look at the example I presented: CNN plays the study (back in 2006) as "Cellphones are Evil Incarnate on the Road!", and presents many risk factors and such ... but then links to the actual observations which show that tired drivers have at least twice as many accidents.

There is obviously a risk to using a cellphone while driving. The question is simply one of scale and priority: should we care about it, when many more are falling asleep, or just plain flat-out drunk or stoned?

Sean, I read your post and can certainly identify with your experiences on the road.

I don't drive much at all. But, I do get out for walks and bike rides where I see a lot of cars going by. :eek:

I see an extremely large amount of drivers talking on their cell phones. The numbers are amazing. I sometimes count them when I'm a passenger in other cars.
And, yeah I do notice how they are driving too. Yes, it does seem like many of them are DWI.
I've seen times when the drivers without cell phones were outnumbered.

Even with my limited road-hours, I've seen a few accidents and a very large amount of near-misses that were due to cell use.


So, I can't understand how anyone who actually drives every day, fails to see what is going on.?.
Or, perhaps they are too preoccupied to notice the events going on around them?

I don't need some guy from an insurance company to tell me what I've already seen with my own two eyes..

There is obviously a risk to using a cellphone while driving. The question is simply one of scale and priority: should we care about it, when many more are falling asleep, or just plain flat-out drunk or stoned?

It is a large enough concern in my own humble experience around here to answer "Yes." I didn't say to exclude the others, but there are significant numbers of accidents waiting to happen and I'm convinced a rather non-trivial number of them could be avoided entirely by putting the phone down and paying attention to the road.

Harsh? No way! The media knows a good troll when it sees one. Stories about driving are natural audience-makers, as everyone has an opinion (see Parkinson' Law, "The Color of the Bikeshed").

Fear is also a major contributor to audience construction. Who wants to hear good news, when a baby has been crushed to death in a car accident? We can all overlook the lie of the conflation of relative and absolute risks when it comes to the children, no?

Look at the example I presented: CNN plays the study (back in 2006) as "Cellphones are Evil Incarnate on the Road!", and presents many risk factors and such ... but then links to the actual observations which show that tired drivers have at least twice as many accidents.

There is obviously a risk to using a cellphone while driving. The question is simply one of scale and priority: should we care about it, when many more are falling asleep, or just plain flat-out drunk or stoned?

I've seen a number of stories equating driving and dialing with DUI, and I've experienced enough near misses from them to know this is absolutely true for many.
BTW, my CRX HF was totalled after 12 years and nearly 250,000 by a distracted driver on the phone. ;)

Mdf, a couple of points:
1. It's not always known or documented when cellphone use contributes to a crash. Accurate data is simply not available. Numbers extrapolated from a model probably represent the real world more accurately than actual crash statistics.

2. Cellphone use may not cause a huge number of deaths, because conversation-addled drivers are still probably aware enough to avoid fatal accidents in most cases, but I believe they contribute to a LARGE number of lesser crashes. And distraction information is almost never recorded in non-fatal crashes.

In my own case, I was rear ended 4 years ago by a driver who was blasting along a 35 mph road at 45-50 mph and not even looking at the road. Even though she hit the brakes (leaving skidmarks) and I hit the gas a second or two before impact, she still hit me at 30-35 mph.

The result was major frame damage to my car, her brand new Camry was totaled, I received significant injuries requiring a year of physical therapy for recovery, and I and I was unable to bicycle or take part in significant physical exertion for an entire summer. Maybe that last part didn't matter because I had no spare time to exercise, having spent 200 daytime hours in treatment and worked evenings and weekends for an entire summer to make up the hours. Furthermore, a pedestrian had to jump out of the way at the last second or he would certainly have been killed.

She didn't have on a cellphone, but she sure was distracted in some way (likely reading, I'm guessing, though I'll never know). So don't tell me distracted drivers aren't a serious problem. There was absolutely no investigation of what the nature of her distraction was, the fact that she was distracted would not have been noted in accident statistics, and if cellphone use had been the cause it would NOT have been noted. Underreporting of this problem is MASSIVE and systemic.

Cell phone chatting can sometimes be useful..
In one case, the woman went off the road and down into a deep gully.
Trapped, she would have never been found. BUT, she had been
chatting on her cell phone when she went off the road. :o

Days later, her family got the cell phone co. to dig up the general location
from their records and they went to that section of road and kept looking
until they found her. She was almost dead.

------

Just up the road from me, there is a very narrow section of road with trees on both sides.
The posted limit is 25 MPH. But, everyone does about 40.

The funny part is the telephone pole.. It's extra close to the roadway.
It's actually part of the curb! When we walk by, we always see bits of plastic
where cars have hit the post. The other day I found a nice looking rear view mirror there.
The remote control parts were ripped out. :(


Last week, we were out on our bikes when we saw the post take a hit.
When the woman pulled over and stepped out to see what she hit,
she was expressing her confusion, on her cell phone!!
She had no clue what the loud noise was and got back in and took off.

About 1/4 of the post has been ripped away by cars. My guess is a lot of those hits were due to cell usage..

Damn I wish I could afford a cell phone jammer and I wish it would be legal to own one in this country. Doctors are also bad for this. What makes them worse is their feeling of superiority and entitlement contributes to their reckless speeding in traffic. They usually have a ready excuse of racing to a heart emergency in order to get out of a ticket. To help resist temptation to talk on the phone, when you get in the car either turn off the phone or throw it in the back seat. My wife, she has a small cup holder mounted on her AC vent just for her cell phone. Makes it easy to hear it ring, see who's calling, and quickly grab it to start yakking away. The nurses here are on the phone before they even leave the hospital and continue talking even as they're driving through the parking tower. Oh, and yes, the doctors and nurses do use their cell phones in areas where they aren't allowed including surgery. Remember the entitlement attitude? The special treatment doctors receive at hospitals are a sore spot for us. Employees must pay full price to eat in the cafeteria where food is over priced and not very well cooked. However, doctors are treated to free meals cooked by chefs.

Funny you should ask. I did a google search and found this http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.4355"]http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.4355*

* Radio_tec does not endorse the purchase, borrowing, leasing of Cell Phone Jammers as they are illegal for use in the United States and it's territories and possessions. This information was provided solely for educational purposes.

Maybe it's best to let the caller leave a message or at least not pickup the phone in heavy traffic -- Ed.

It happened to me today. I was taking my wife and my son home when I approached an intersection with a green light and this woman yacking on her cell phone approaching me from the opposite direction made a left turn into my lane of traffic. I reacted quickly and hit the break and gave her the New York taxi cab warning. Naturally she was still clueless and didn't even react to me even though I had the horn down for about 5 seconds! :angry:

I have a 911 cell phone in my car that's very rarely used. (To report problems to the police).
And I also have a Ham radio rig. It's a real nice dual band VHF-UHF FM transceiver.
But, since I turned 50, I started using it less and less. Now that I'm 62, I need to pay
a lot more attention to the road, so the Ham rig is no longer used. Only when I'm parked. :)
It's just too distracting.

I'm a ham radio operator too hence the alias Radio_tec. Although I have a VHF FM high power (50 Watts) in the car I hardly ever use it. I use it more to get the forcast off of NOAA weather radio. Most ham operators (and CB radio operators too) know when to put the mike down. Also radio doesn't require the same concentration as cell phone use because the conversations are typically shorter due to the repeater timeouts.

I'm a ham radio operator too hence the alias Radio_tec. Although I have a VHF FM high power (50 Watts) in the car I hardly ever use it. I use it more to get the forcast off of NOAA weather radio. Most ham operators (and CB radio operators too) know when to put the mike down. Also radio doesn't require the same concentration as cell phone use because the conversations are typically shorter due to the repeater timeouts.

And I think it was you that said it's simpler when it's simplex... :)

I've never had much of a problem having QSOs while mobile, but I have heard a few
guys get into accidents 'live' on a repeater.. And the way it sounded over the
air, the Ham was at fault. And of course, you can often hear the horns of irate motorist
in the background sometimes too.. :eek:

I was once riding with a ham buddy checking out the range of our club ATV repeater..
The monitor was at my feet (in the shotgun seat) when I said WOW! That's P5 !!
My pal looked over at the CRT and the next thing I knew we were flying over a curb
and side walk.. On our way to an unscheduled stop in a shopping mall parking lot.. :o
We learned right then, never put a TV in the front seat!!