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More than fuel economy and traffic deaths are at stake now. (http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/05/with-gas-prices.html)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/500/55mpg_sign.JPGDoug Newcomb - Wired - May 21, 2008

Congress adopted a nationwide 55 mph speed limit law during the oil embargo of the 1970s and threatened to withhold highway funding for any state that didn't comply. It repealed the law 13 years ago, when oil was cheap and gas plentiful. But with prices going through the roof and everyone worried about global warming, there are increasing calls for Congress to bring back the double-nickel speed limit.

Advocacy groups like drive55.org say rolling the speed limit back to 55 will save fuel, reduce pollution and save lives. It seems logical, but not everyone is convinced slower speeds bring any real benefit, and the debate is heating up.

"Sheer physics tell you lower speeds equal better fuel economy, fewer injuries and lower emissions," said Justin McNaull, director of state relations for AAA. "But what happens when you change the speed limit is a little less clear."

It depends upon who you want to believe.

Connecticut adopted the nation's first vehicular speed limit 107 years ago today - setting the maximum speed at 12 in the city and 15 in the country - and people have been ignoring them ever since. Congress set the limit at 55 mph under the National Maximum Speed Law of 1974. The law was repealed 19 years later and the states allowed to set their own limits. Most of them bumped it up to 65 mph, although some went to 75 mph and there are stretches of highway in west Texas where you can cruise at 80.


The U.S. Department of Energy says gas mileage plummets above 60 mph and says every 5 mph above that speed is akin to paying an additional $0.20 per gallon for gas. But the American Heritage Foundation claims 12 years of 55 mph speed limits cut fuel consumption by just 1 percent. After Congress repealed the National Maximum Speed Law and 33 states raised their speed limits, the Cato Institute said traffic deaths dropped to a record low.

More than fuel economy and traffic deaths are at stake now....http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/05/with-gas-prices.html

These sorts of discussions always make me uncomfortable - if we want to reduce fuel consumption, then simply charge an appropriate price (via gas taxes).

Germans have no speed limits on much of their Highway system - and their fleet MPG is on order of 38 MPG (vs. our 22)

I rented a Peugot diesel ( I believe the 308 model ) for 10 days last winter in Bavaria - its about the size of a Jetta or Corolla. 1/2 my miles were on mountain roads 1/2 on Autobahns at 130 - 160 KM (aka 80 -100 MPH)

10 day average MPG was over 43 Miles per gallon !


100 miles an hour and 43 MPG -

In America, it is apparently taboo to deal with the real issue: the prevalence of FSP 's on our roads.

Push ethanol, push speed limits, cut gas taxes, do everything except what is needed: convert from FSP 's to fuel-sippers.

Harry

It would simply be a waste of time if the police continue to enforce speed limits as they have.

Go the speed limit on any expressway and count how many cars you pass (trucks included). You will defenitely have a few fingers left over!

I don't think we should lower the limits, I think we need to improve the cars. As a new driver of a hybrid I think it is great. I have slowed down a bit when I am trying to maximize FE, but even if I drive the way I did in my old car I get 46.9mpg.

The decision for me to get this car was the point at which my Gas cost for a month was more than the car payment so we went and looked at the Toyota Camry. In our test drives overnight we got around 36mpg which was about 12 more than the old car but not enough to justify a 30k price tag.

So we tried the Prius overnight and did 60 miles or so in mixed hills/flat and ended up with 46.9. So we bought the car, it cost us about $50 a month more in payments but we save about $150 a month in gas, so in the end we still save $100 a month and it's like riding in a video game to get the best gas mileage.

I think a lot more people would switch if they ever figured out the cost of their 30+ minute commutes to work. When I lived in TX, I knew one guy that had a 100 mile drive each way and he drove an older bonneville, I don't know what his gas bill was but I'd bet it was a good chunk of change.

Agree with RL: unless we can start enforcing the limits we have today there is NO point in lowering them to 55. The law will become even more of a joke than it already is in the eyes of many, and that's corrosive to society.

What we don't need is a repeat of the 1970s (Convoy/Cannonball Run/Smokey and the Bandit/Dukes of Hazzard) attitude of total disrespect for the law.

Anyway, even I think 55 is too low. 65 is our limit here in Oregon, works great for me and I would support it as a national limit. I'll still drive around 60, but I like being able to coast up to 65-70 on downhills without getting a ticket! If 55 becomes the law, kiss DWL goodbye unless you're willing to average 50.

55 mph is too low-no one-congress-would support such a low limit.When we went to 55 mph as the national speed limit most highways and interstates had 60 and 65 mph limits.70 MPH speed limits were very, very rare-65 mph was about it.

Now a 65 mph national limit could work.

It would be easy to enforce.Just use the camera/radar system that many cities use.It has withstood many legal challenges(probably because the ticket is a civil penality, not a criminal penality-this is strictly my guess,I know Minn over reached with their cameras system -probably tried to make it a crime-and got swatted down)This is strictly my guess on why the ticketing cameras are "legal."You get a ticket-you pay, or lose the ability to register your vehicle. No points,and no insurance consequences from the cameras-just $$$.

65 would work for me.I just drove from NOLA to Flagstaff-interstates mainly,and you can't safely drive less than 65 mph in most places because many drivers do 75mph or more.I-635 in Dallas Fort Worth had the craziest most aggressive drivers- 3 were doing over 100 mph,and many do 75+ despite the 60 mph limit on most of it(this was at 10pm on a Sunday night,and it was fairly crowded despite the late hour-and 5 lanes).

Charlie

I-635 in Dallas Fort Worth had the craziest most aggressive drivers- 3 were doing over 100 mph,and many do 75+ despite the 60 mph limit on most of it(this was at 10pm on a Sunday night,and it was fairly crowded despite the late hour-and 5 lanes).

Charlie

It wasn't me I no longer live in Texas, but I will attest to the craziness of driving there! I have a lead foot and in Texas I was just above median value for speeding

Charlie, I drive 635 daily and appreciate every day that I survive the trip. I usually drive the speed limit and almost get forced off the road daily. Also, I've never seen any typ of law enforcement patrolling it or enforcing the speed limit.

Move the driver's seat to the front of the hood and let people drive as fast and tail gate as much as they want.

The problem will soon be solved. :Banane11:

Didn't they say just a few weeks ago that the planet was cooling.

I think the limit should be lowered to 55. However, 60mph would be okay for me.

Most states need extra money. More speeders caught, more revenue.

Hey, lower consumption of fuel, less demand, less price, right? riiiight...

ATLAW AND STEVE-Funny thing is that outside DWF TX drivers are pretty polite. I have done the 25 mile loop from I-20 to the Denton exit(27B I think) maybe 10 times roundtrip over the last 8 years or so. It seems to have gotten worse in the last 2 years or so. It was 10 pm on Sunday night and the were many many drivers weaving in and out of traffic changing 3 lanes at a time,and them whipping back 3 more lanes.It was fairly crowded,and I didn't feel safe doing less than about 62-65 mph. To add to the ambience a group of about 15 crotch rockets went by at about 90 mph weaving in and out like some sort of "crotch rockets gone wild video." Then a Vette blew by at at least 110 mph.I'll be going back home thru DWF about noon Sunday-maybe it will be a bit tamer!

Charlie

I think the states should set their own limits. Someone living on the east coast has no idea what it is like to drive across Texas, Montana, Arizona or Nevada. Most people would lose their minds making those drives at 55 mph.
The cost of shipping things by truck would go up 10% to 20% because drivers would want an increase per mile to make up for money they lost on the lower speeds.
You have a trucker making .40 per mile going 600 miles he is making $240 for the trip.
Driving from Pittsburgh to St Louis he's driving 10 hours and making $24 per hour. You lower the speed limit to 55 and that trip now takes 12 hours to drive and he is really screwed. You see he is limited to driving 10 hours a day. He has to park the truck after 10
hours and wait until the clock moves eight hours before he can start driving and finish the trip. Now he has 20 hours in to make that $240. So now he just made $12 per hour for that same trip.
Truckers lie now in their log books lower the speed limit and you will see far more falsifying of their log books. My B-I-L is a trucker and moves 40K pounds of rolled steel around the east coast every week. I remember the early days back in the mid eighties when he was always joking about how bad he cooked his log book. Today with the higher speeds he doesn't have to mess with the numbers to make money.

European cars get better mpg but they can't pass US emissions test. American cars put out less polution from the exhaust but use more gas. The US government requirements for crash safety standards adds a good deal of weight to the vehicles which also lowers mpg. How much weight would be saved if they could take away the airbag system, power windows, power mirrors, and other electronics we don't really need? If Congress wants to lower the price of gas they could start by opening up areas of this country to oil drilling. We have several areas that have oil ready for the taking and Cuba is already drilling off the coast of Florida where we're not allowed to drill. They could also cut the red tape involved in the approvement process for building a refinery. Ten years of studies and millions of dollars only to have the local and or state government tell you no is rediculous but not as rediculous as having a bunch of lawyer politicians "demand" answers from oil company executives who can "try" to give the lawyers a lesson on economics' law of supply and demand, something I learned in high school.

Sure, bring back the double nickel, just as long as motorcycles and sub-compact cars are exempt. This would encourage people to buy fuel efficient vehicles and since the majority of vehicle miles are driven on roads that already are posted at 55 or lower, it would save more fuel than not encouraging small cars while making everyone go 55 everywhere.

The beautiful part of my plan is that SUV drivers won't be able to complain, since safety is almost universally used as a pretense to own a huge SUV, surely they will gladly drive slower and compound that safety they are so concerned about.

The problem is enforcement. Just because the speed limit is 55 why do all of you think anyone is going to go 55. Unless they are members of this forum. of course.:D:D

i have to say that the comments following that article are some of the most ignorant, for the most part, of any that i have read lately........sheesh.

The article quoted in critique two think tanks whose "research" said that higher speeds increased safety and FE. Those were the Heritage Foundation and the Cato institute. Hmmm.
I don't think the Cato institute would favor ANY speed limits from what I've heard of them.

I would support it. But I don't think it has a prayer of getting anywhere. 65 might work??
Of course the truckers will oppose it. However, I don't know. I think the airlines are now all slowing down some. The cost of fuel for the truck may ante the other costs incurred on the road (like salaries, etc etc ) and slower times to get products to market??

BTW, I enjoyed the tongue in cheek thing about having different speed limits for FE cars. LOL!
:)


--des

I don't know why this concept is so hard for everyone to wrap their heads around.

The speed limit is... the limit.

The maximum speed as allowed by law for road vehicles.

I don't care if the limit is 90. Enforcement is the KEY! Simply punsh any and all who go over the posted limit. Camera systems, radar traps, whatever. I bet you can get some other illegal activity at the same time and clean up our roads. And in my home state, our Education would be WELL funded, that all tickets go STRAIGHT to Education.

The main issue people seem to be "cool" with going over 5 MPH is that "they won't ticket you"
but even the legal definition of speed limit.

"MAXIMUM" limit. Simple solution. Reeducate. Sad, but true. People need to be "reminded". Driving is a PRIVILEGE not a RIGHT... make the punshments harsher? The US is all about freedoms right? give them the freedom to speed all they want... but make the consequences harsher in return. Its only fair, after all there STILL IS A WAR ON, after all

Tuckers are full of it when they complain they will loose money by going slower. CSX, BNSF, Canadian Pacific, Soo Line, Georgia Pacific and CPRAIL will happily take up any cargo they "loose out to lost time on the "slow" speed limits. I am curious, how many lives can be saved by simply going back to the "55 stay alive" campaign.

And yes we are dropping speed in the airline industry not to just save fuel, but its the back ups with Air Traffic Control. Flying into MSP today was a nightmare... could see the aviators of the Saab puddle jumper on our rear, as we are coming in from an 18 hour Korea run.

Fly into JFK, or Newark on memorial day weekend. We are ordered to maintain and drop true airspeed in order just to keep our spot in the queue.

Laurieaw - I am in total agreement. Absolutely sad.

As far as a graded speed limit for FE cars - read about that idea 20 years ago in Car and Driver. Not necessarily tongue in cheek.

Most of the replys here are dead set against it - which I also find sad. Enforcement = cameras. Be nice and don't put the cameras on a downhill for DWL. It will take years to change the fleet but we could get a 20% improvement with a few signs and many cameras.

Traffic - please. LA has talked about 45 mph because if you get people driving slower (and consistent), they can stay closer to each other before panic braking sets in.

Maybe people wouldn't do such long commutes if it took them another 20% time. Maybe. Maybe they would decide to drive less on vacation.

Maybe the political will would be there to change to electric/light weight if we knew that it meant speed limits would go back up.

I know people everyday who are afraid to slow down - so their commute costs them more. Also at an ENFORCED 55 mph - people would not feel the need to have a SUV to feel safe - so it would be easier for them to swallow a small car.

Seems like a win-win all around. Make it temporary and tie it to CAFE standards. When the fleet reaches 40 mpg average - increase speed limit to 65; 50 mpg average - 75. I would love to drive 100 mph - but only when I get a car that has better aerodynamics.

The main issue with ticketing someone for being 1-5 over is relying on the accuracy of our speedometers. Both my Sedona and Elantra show 3 MPH higher than the actual rate of travel. Now, that's to my benefit. I'm sure there's some vehicles out there that are showing 3 MPH lower than the actual rate of travel. Heck, some of the 07 Elantra's were as much as 10 MPH higher than actual speed! It just proves to me that our dash instruments aren't anywhere near as accurate as they could be. Until that's addressed, the police have to give us a margin of error.

I was pulled over once in my Jeep (35" tires), needless to say the speedo was a ways off and instead of a ticket the cop helped me determine how far off the speedo was and let me go.

As far as driving 55, wasn't really a big deal then, but it seems like speed limits were enforced more then. Took awhile to get use to, though I can see having some of the western states with 5-10 higher.

Bring 55 back! And just to even things out, the same bill should legalize and require a certain amount of photo radar and stop light cams. An average of even one camera every 10 miles would keep people slow, as long as its not obvious where the things are so people speed in between the cameras and hit their brakes as they come up on one.

What was with the following part of the article...
drive55.org claims Washington state would cut CO2 emissions by 10 percent if it cut its 70 mph speed limit by 15 mph. But even here, the evidence is debated. The Automobile Association in England claims reducing the speed limit from 30 mph to 20 on residential roads would increase CO2 emission by more than 10%
How is going from 65 to 55 anywhere near the same thing at going from 30 to 20. Both statements are true and accurate. Below a certain speed, usually around 40/50mph, car MPG starts going down. That means more fuel per mile and thus higher emissions. Anyone who thinks thats an argument against bringing the current speed limits of 60 to 80 down to 55 is a either being simple or intentionally using true data in a false way to create a believable lie. Very inappropriate reporting.

The main issue with ticketing someone for being 1-5 over is relying on the accuracy of our speedometers. Both my Sedona and Elantra show 3 MPH higher than the actual rate of travel. Now, that's to my benefit. I'm sure there's some vehicles out there that are showing 3 MPH lower than the actual rate of travel. Heck, some of the 07 Elantra's were as much as 10 MPH higher than actual speed! It just proves to me that our dash instruments aren't anywhere near as accurate as they could be. Until that's addressed, the police have to give us a margin of error.

i agree with this totally, however, even a layperson can tell without fancy equipment when someone is going 20 over.

i agree with this totally, however, even a layperson can tell without fancy equipment when someone is going 20 over.

Maybe that should be addressed too...no tickets allowed for differences of up to 5mph, but at 6, you get the full ticket for being 6 over.

A driver is responsible for the condition of their car. Its failure to indicate proper speed is a failure of the driver to test and correct. For states that require inspections, you would think this would be part of the test...not legally required to pass, but you would be informed of errors in indicatd speed.

I guess most of you were too young or don't want to remember the 55 mph national limit.
I do and I remember how the highways were like restrictor plate races at Daytona and Talledegga. Oh people were driving 55 mph and they were one or two car lengths off the bumper of the car ahead of them. I don't see that as much today with the higher speed limits. I use to laugh when a few truckers would do a protest block and would run side by side at 55 mph up and interstate. You would see a five to ten mile traffic jam behind them after a half hour of this game. It use to piss off the Highway Patrol and State Police to no end.
We live a country with the most resilient, diverse and adaptable economy in the world.
The market not Government will fix this problem. If you haven't noticed when have the idiots in government ever fixed anything right. Can you say mandating Ethanol? Now look at all the problems it has created with food prices around the world.

Actually, I would shift that responsibility to the auto manufacturer. Hmm, let me qualify that with "provided your vehicle's tires, attachments, accessories remain stock from factory, they should be responsible". And I'd make sure that there isn't some silly implication that switching tire brands (but not size!) from OEM gives them a free way out, or changing the oil/air filter to non OEM, etc.

Unless every person were to own a GPS, how would you know that your instruments are off? Making it part of the inspection process would help there, but for most states that's a once a year deal. Heck, I didn't know the Elantra was off until I finally got a GPS this year. And it's not a linear thing. Temperature and humidity seem to affect it as well. Today, there were points where the speedo and GPS were in agreement for extended amounts of time.

My take on this is that a 55mph limits and strict enforcement thereof (or of the existing limits) needs to be a secondary operation. The reason for this is the psychology of speeding. The key players are as follows:

-Misinformation: "My car gets better MPGs at 70 than at 55 because that's how modern cars are designed!"

-Peer pressure (a.k.a "you first"): I can't drive the speed limit because nobody else drives the speed limit. I will be [run over, yelled at, shot, stabbed, damned] if I drive the limit".

-Rebellion: "Lower speed limits [and associated enforcement] are just a new tax. Don't let the man hold you back!"

-The 'American Way': "This is America, where people make their own decisions. Lower speed limits are un-American."

-Time: "My time is more important to me than a gallon of gasoline. I can't afford to drive slow."

-Juvenile showboating: "Hold my beer and watch this!"

Reducing speed limits and putting a speed camera at every corner is not the answer because it doesn't address the underlying attitudes that produce our speed culture. Many of those attitudes are even fed by taking that action. The better approach is to address the attitudes and misconceptions directly. Most people respond to some kind of persuasion, so work from every angle to help people understand that it is in their best interests and their country's best interests to obey limits and generally quit driving wastefully. Most people don't even have a clue as to how big of a difference it makes!

Mandating prominent i- and a-FCDs in new cars would be a good regulatory action. The government and other organizations can do a better job not only re-educating current drivers but starting new drivers off right. In other words, do a better job of building consensus that changing our ways is the right thing to do for us. Once you have used all the carrots to get a noticeable proportion of drivers on the right path, by all means use the stick to get the stragglers in line. They are much more likely to get with the program when they are the exception rather that the rule.

Maybe it's not the simple solution, but it's the better solution. Take advantage of the awareness that comes with spiraling fuel prices and start educating on a national scale!

Brick, I agree with most of what you said. When the cost of driving hits people hard enough in the wallet they will change their ways. Americans are not the sheep that the Europeans and Asians have become. The more you push the more the American people will push back.

Why 55? A LIMIT of 65 with a "suggested travel speed" of 60
would probably be the best compromise, and most speedos [barring
those "remind the idiots" ones from the 70s/80s with a big "55"
icon on the scale] read in tens, and a nice even 60 allows one
mile per minute and very easy trip planning. The real air-resistance
"cusp" kicks in around 62, so staying just to the low side of
that would probably yield roughly equivalent FE for all except
the biggest, squarest bricks on the roads.
.
"double nickels" always seemed like an oddball number to me.
.
_H*

I think we-USA citizens-would buy 65mph if it was part of a Manhatten project to get us off foreign oil/energy,and get us self sufficient in respect to energy. 55 mph-nah-that is too slow- no pols would go for it because their constituents would be opposed.I wouldn't try to sell it as a safety thing,sell it as what it would be-a small step to reduce fuel use.

A 55 limit is just too slow-now 65 mph-that could work.

Charlie

I would prefer it to be more like the autobahn for open/non-city roads. 55 in the right lane and whatever you find to be safe in the passing lane. Gives those of us who want to get the best FE a place to drive and those who want to spend their disposable income on extra fuel to have at it.

It would require people to relearn that everything except the right lane is a passing lane, so you should pass and then get back to the right.

It would also address the legal limit questions.

And last, it would give me a great place to drive the Tesla, after I win the lottery :D