Archives

Like many others who post here, I'm new to hypermiling. I drive a 1995 Honda Civic EX 2dr Automatic and achieve on average 30 MPG. The new EPA ratings show a combined 26 MPG. I wouldn't consider myself an aggressive driver but I feel pressured to go faster due to tailgaters. When I approach stop lights or stop signs, I'll take my foot off the gas and brake gradually. I'll slowly accelerate to the speed limit. I'll sometimes brake earlier than most people would on red lights but it seems like I'm still wasting gas when I could be applying the DWB method. I've already read the article on "How to Hypermile" but I still have some questions and concerns.

Regarding coasting in neutral vs coasting in gear (this is with engine on), I've seen mixed responses on http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/how_to/4230705.html and http://www.gassavers.org/showthread.php?t=593 It appears the general consensus would be shifting in neutral would be better due to traveling a farther distance (esp. with tires inflated to max sidewell). I have some concerns about shifting gears from drive to neutral and neutral to drive and how to do it the "right" way. My manual states the car can be flat towed so I know it's safe to shift to neutral with engine off if I choose to do so. Keep in mind this is on an automatic. There's a term called "n bombing" on gassavers described as "N-bombing the tranny is putting the car in neutral when you're moving, say 65 mph, then in N go full throttle and shift into D." When I see a red light, I take my foot off the gas pedal, shift from D4 to N but I still need to apply some brakes to come to a complete stop. Is it bad to be braking in neutral vs in gear? I've also read that I should rev match when shifting back from N to D4 while I'm still in motion. My commute has 50 MPH roads so I'm near highway speed.

Neutral and Drive both show under 1000 RPM and without a scanguage I can't tell if it does the fuel cutoff.

I'd like to get a ScanGauge but it's not compatible with my car. Does anyone know what the sweet spots are?

Current commute (approx. 6 miles): I reverse out of my carport (can only park face in), make a left and stop at the stop sign. In four blocks, I'll hit a traffic light with a left turn arrow. On my way to a 50 MPH road, I'll encounter two more traffic lights. There are some places to coast and it have some small inclines and decilnes. When I leave in the morning there's not as much traffic, so I might be able to use the P&G technique. Would accelerating to 55 and coasting down to 45 work?

I'm using the max sidewell of 44 PSI. It was previously at 29 and I've made gradual adjustments in increments of 5 PSI.

Hi KrazyDawg:

___There should be no confusion in your mind. At higher speeds, a NICE-On glide will give you far higher FE over any distance than fuel cut with engine braking. If you come into a stopping situation to hot, by all means use engine braking to do it with no fuel consumed. The transition at lower speeds is a little dicey as fuel cut gives up the ghost at ~ 1,100 R’s and you will be consuming fuel with the ICE-On following. Use your head and consider which is best depending on what kind of distance you have to slow down as well as how slow a speed you are going to come down to. The best thing is since your auto is flat towable, remove the decision and FAS her when and where appropriate. Remember again to use Engine braking if you mistakenly came into a traffic situation a bit to hot.

___As for the pressure to conform, you have any number of options. First point being, if there is a red ahead, help them help themselves is my motto. Let the glide extend and use some smart braking to keep yourself and those behind you moving rather than all jamming up at the light. If they are going to do something stupid like race around to the red, consider an alternate of an alternate, a reverse pass or just continue on your way and let the proctologist turn into a mad rabbit and clear the path by tripping the light for you.

___Pressure to burn fuel is what you have to deal with as it cannot be handled by anybody else but yourself. You know what the right answer is but it may take a few months to get used to helping save all of our future while taking a little heat for it.

___I see you are placing impediments in front of yourself (Face-In’s, 50 mph speed limits etc.) which sound like a dream to most here ;) but fortunately, it is only a 6-mile commute so your total gallonage usage is a minimum. With what you have discussed, 45 mpg should be a drop in the bucket even with the Auto given the ability to FAS, the small size and weight of the vehicle you are driving and the short range commute.

___Finally, are you located anywhere near Chicago as we have plenty of areas to perform clinics around here including congested and non-congested suburbs, wide open Interstates, Stop and Crawls in either and even some country back roads to get you up to speed :)

___My $0.015 and I hope it helped?

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Thanks Wayne for the comments provided. I'm actually located in Northern California between San Francisco and Sacramento. In a few weeks, I'm moving and my 6 mile commute will turn into a 30 mile commute a good portion of it on the highway with steep inclines and declines, so the results should be interesting.

Do you recommend revving the engine to match the speed when shifting from neutral to drive traveling downhill on the highway (65MPH speed limit)?

I've shied away from using FAS after hearing a horror story from my co-worker about someone crashing their car downhill due to loss of control from no power steering. It turns out he used the technique all the time on his old car but he hadn't used it on the new car. The old one didn't have power steering. I'll probably experiment with it but only for city driving no traffic. Have you noticed any wear on the starter or heard of anyone having problems? I don't know how much it would cost to replace my 95 Civic's starter if it did run into a problem. Parts should be readily available since it's a Honda.

Hi KrazyDawg:

___I would always rev match but I would also not reengage at 65. 58 tops for my own and I really like to be under 48 before bring the Auto in the Accord back online.

___About FAS’ing … You are driving a Civic that doesn’t need power steering of any kind with any speed (it really does not need it at all) so whoever said they crashed because they did not have power steering is telling a story a bit bigger than life. What I suspect is he keyed off and did not return the key thus locking his steering wheel :rolleyes: but he will not tell you that is what really happened ;) Power brakes will disappear after a few touches of the pedal so you do have to be extremely careful with that one. All of the advanced techniques should be practiced and mastered out on empty country or desolate roadways so it not only becomes second nature but also so you know both your own and your Civic’s limits. Use the basics and get comfortable with those. It will not be to long and 30 mpg will be all but a fading memory :)

___No night FAS’ing either until you have a way to watch the 12V.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Chiming in on Wayne's post:

Having driven a '89 Daytona which had power steering and was even lighter than the Accord but had a tendency to quit on hills, power steering off is fine for straight travel, However, downhill turns in California require power steering. The first few degrees of travel are fine, but 90 degree bends really end up fighting the power unit and car.

Not something you want on a curving 8% slope.

Hi KrazyDawg:

___I would always rev match but I would also not reengage at 65. 58 tops for my own and I really like to be under 48 before bring the Auto in the Accord back online.



By re-engaging do you mean turning the engine back on or shifting back from neutral to gear?

So doing a NICE-On coast would be a big no no at highway speeds?

My new commute will involve going up/down this steep hill on I-80. It's hard to tell how steep but it gives you an idea if you move the trapezoid shape in the smaller map along the route.
http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=qbtds34tg9yk&style=o&lvl=1&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=1529676&encType=1

Hi KrazyDawg:

___From ICE-Off to ICE-On and reengage the tranny or from a NICE-On and reengage the tranny are both describing the same thing but from different initial states. The procedure is similar with the following difference. When you turn over your ICE with the starter motor (you and I have autos) and it fires, there is an initial surge. I see the Accord come up to about 1,400 - 1,500 RPM. At the peak is when I shift from N to D and catch the rev match very well at or around 50 mph. From a NICE-On, you have to barely blip the accelerator pedal of your unloaded ICE while in N to bring her R’s up to match your current speed and than reengage the tranny. There is a risk here that an older Auto’s programming and solenoids are not fast enough to catch high gear at a higher RPM so you will have to play with this. If there is any shift grind or harshness, you are way off and do not repeat what you did when it happened. Also, you do not get on the accelerator pedal right away but let the tranny fully engage and slowly add power for the next pulse or back to a steady state cruise. Any shift shock and I would not be performing this evolution and neither should you.

___Just as before, practice these advanced steps on a desolate roadway until they are second nature because you do not want to be paying attention to your tach, gear shift selector, key, road and traffic all at the same time as you could injure yourself or somebody else. Take the easy stuff first and once you have that down, move to the advanced. Please be careful for all our sakes.

___I am not sure where on I-80 your commute is but I have been across most it from IL to NY to CA and back to IL just recently. Any foothill/mountain climb is going to be a painful experience but on the way down, you can get back quite a bit of that pain and more depending on how you handle the traffic down and conditions down the back side.

___Good Luck and let us know how your commute goes!

___Wayne

My experience with the power steering is this: Not really needed at all in the civic. Even at parking lot speeds. I'm guessing yours is similar to mine. Other cars may be different, but mine is maybe a 15% difference in steering effort with and without. NO PROBLEM at all there!

It's been over a month since I responded. I have a new 26 mile commute now. 20 miles on highway, 5 miles on a 50 MPH road, and the last mile on a 15-30 MPH. I've been achieving anywhere from 33-36 traveling at 65 MPH, sometimes with A/C on. I've hit 41 and 40 almost back to back. I'd probably get closer to 40 if I reduced my speed to 55-60. There's a San Francisco Chronicle article about slowing down to 55 MPH to save gas but most people are against it. :( http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/04/28/MN9H10BFRS.DTL Some have claimed better gas mileage driving at 75. For $4 regular unleaded gas in the area, you'd think more people would seriously consider slowing down.

Do you live near Vallejo?

I love riding down that steep hill. Going up is definitely no fun especially when coming from 37.

This is my first full tank with a ScanGauge so I still have some calibration to do but it says I'm getting 40-ish tanks on average (based on my fuel gauge, it might be more like 37-38). Anyway, I can't really afford to coast in neutral so I do mostly Hang Time. What's odd is I get very similar results when going 55 or 60. My commute is a 14.7 mile trip at 6:45 in the morning and whenever I get out of school.

Today, my morning drive was 43 and the drive home was 48.

I live in Vallejo. I've been doing the neutral engine on coast in both directions. That hill is brutal if you start from the bottom of it. My car will drop down to 55 or 50 and if I wanted to go at the speed limit I would have to shift from D4 to D3 but my RPM jumps up to 4000+ RPM. We leave at the same time for our commutes.

Krazydog, I see that you've increased your MPG a fair amount in only a month or so. Did you move to another state?

Understand how long it took for people to fully return to bad habits. Habits are hard to break, for a myriad of reasons, but you can only work with your own habits. People have grown very impatient, and very used to speeding and aggressive driving (in part for self preservation). But, break the mold. After a while you will find that going a tad slower actually gives you more reaction time in addition to more weight in your wallet. It is really a bit more peaceful to discard the feeling that you must do what others think, and rewarding to leave the herd. They aren't paying for your gas and tickets and insurance. But, as we SHARE the road, we keep them in mind and try not to get in their way. But, we have a right to the highways also. Slowly but surely, most drivers will realize that they are the best way to achieve better MPG. Don't you just love to see a Prius driven with abandon? NOT. But to that person, what they are now getting is better than before. They may complain that the car just doesn't deliver what it promised, but as they slow down, like Pavlov's dog, they will realize the reward. Sites like this go a long way towards developing an attitude of conservation, not just for saving money, but also for saving gasoline and minimizing pollution.

Anyway, great job you are doing, saving 6 miles per gallon over what you used to get. If your next goal is a 40 MPG tank, consider dropping back to 60 MPH for awhile. Then if it pays off, consider dropping to 58. 55 should be something that won't get folks too steamed, but you really have to pay more attention to the rear, stay to the right side of the right lane, and keep your cool. In Houston, I would run into major problems trying to get over into the turn lanes at the same time the entrance ramps were putting two lanes into one. Huge problem there. If you stayed in the right lane until your exit, you discovered that others were going up farther, then cutting over, making everyone else stop. I hope your city commute is better than that.

kwj: No, I moved from Fairfield to Vallejo. Most of my gain came from lowering my average speed of 70-75 to 65. I find in the morning for the direction I'm traveling it, there's not too many cars on the road and since the 3 lane highway opens up into a 4 lane, traveling at 55-60 isn't as big of an issue.

Same problem here with staying in the right lane. Some of them have short merges that turn into an exit only lane.

Before you said you were moving to a 30 mile commute I was going to suggest the Schwinn method.