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View Full Version : Toyota Prius wins German clean-drive marathon


xcel
02-25-2008, 09:13 PM
Hi All:

___Another one of those stories that should have probably went to news but I could not find much info on it other than the German Automobile Club ADAC decided to do a low CO2 vehicle long term head to head. I know about the European E85 based Focus using a 1.8L and of course the HCH-II and Prius-II but the Skoda diesel and Subaru Ecomatic are really foreign???
Munich - The Toyota Prius beat five other cars with clean- drive technology in a marathon test conducted by Germany's automobile association ADAC. The Toyota Prius measured an average fuel consumption of 5.8L/100Km with a CO2 emission figure of 119 g/km, well ahead of its rivals, the ADAC said…
The Toyota Prius beat five other cars with clean- drive technology in a marathon test conducted by Germany's automobile association ADAC. (http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleId=48632)
The Toyota Prius beat five other cars with clean-drive technology in a marathon test conducted by Germany's Automobile Association (ADAC).

The Toyota Prius measured an average fuel consumption of 5.8 L/100 Km with a carbon dioxide emission figure of 119g/km, well ahead of its rivals, the ADAC said.

Other cars in the test with over 300 criteria were a Skoda Octavia RS TDI, a Honda Civic Hybrid, VW Touran EcoFuel, Ford Focus FFV and Subaru Outback ecomatic.

In total the testers drove the six cars over 120,000km with about 20,000km for each car.

Both the Prius and Honda Civic with hybrid technology were described as the "actual winners" because petrol was available everywhere with the hybrid technology working very well, especially in city driving conditions.

However, the ADAC testers said that there was no ideal concept for every situation, with individual driving habits playing a big part in the choice of the ideal drive technology.

A long trip using natural gas (CNG), liquid petroleum gas (LPG) or ethanol needed to be carefully planned on European roads.

The Touran using CNG could only use its advantage when a filling station was nearby and it was used daily in the vicinity. LPG filling stations for the Subaru Outback were more widely available but LPG consumption was higher than using petrol which thus had no positive CO2 effects.

The Ford Focus had a 40 per cent higher consumption of ethanol than petrol which put it on the same level as petrol from a cost perspective.

The environmental effect of ethanol was questionable when food products such as corn were used to manufacture the fuel, the ADAC said. Second generation ethanol production from plant residue was still years away, the testers pointed out.

The Skoda Octavia RS TDI was chosen in the test as the cleanest diesel car in its class with an average consumption of 6.8L/100Km. On actual CO2 emission it came second behind the Prius.

Harold
02-25-2008, 11:57 PM
No figures for HCH2 FE? H

JimboK
02-26-2008, 07:07 AM
5.8L/100 Km? If I've done the conversion correctly, that comes to 40.56 MPG. Where the heck were they driving, the Autobahn??? :eek:

I think it's time for an overseas Prius driving clinic. :flag:

Zenox
02-26-2008, 08:21 AM
5.8L/100 Km? If I've done the conversion correctly, that comes to 40.56 MPG. Where the heck were they driving, the Autobahn??? :eek:

I think it's time for an overseas Prius driving clinic. :flag:


In Germany 75mph is considered slow driving on the Autobahn. Lots of people on the German Prius forum think you're a dangerous driver when your FE is better than said 40.56 MPG.

On the Dutch Prius forum you're almost considered a whacko when having a better FE than 50 MPG. I honestly think most people in Europe aren't inclined to even consider driving for increased FE or are not aware of the possibillity :confused:

Regards,

xcel
02-26-2008, 12:04 PM
Hi Zenox:

___Thank you for the information as I always wondered why we did not have more European members. I know the language barrier stops quite a few but 40 mpg in a Prius? It can nail that down even while traveling 75 mph :rolleyes:

___What do the Europeans think about their Urban/Extra Urban estimates as the general populace has to be further off from, those than anyone in the US against the old 85 – 07 EPA let alone 90 + % hitting the new 08 EPA here in the US?

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Zenox
02-27-2008, 04:45 AM
Hi Zenox:

___Thank you for the information as I always wondered why we did not have more European members. I know the language barrier stops quite a few but 40 mpg in a Prius? It can nail that down even while traveling 75 mph :rolleyes:

___What do the Europeans think about their Urban/Extra Urban estimates as the general populace has to be further off from, those than anyone in the US against the old 85 07 EPA let alone 90 + % hitting the new 08 EPA here in the US?

___Good Luck

___Wayne



Hi xcel,


European people seem to think the Urban/Extra Urban estimates are not at all accurate. They blame it on the car makers for not getting the advertised FE. That being said, driving courses are being given to those few willing to try and better their fuel consumption. But even then those participants as well as their instructors claim it's not possible to get the advertised FE with "mild fuel saving techniques" :confused: At best their consumption lowers with about 7%. I guess there's still a lot to learn in Europe :o

Regards,

rweatherford
02-28-2008, 09:10 PM
So this is a world wide problem not just a USA problem like everyone would like to make us think?

It's easier to point your finger and throw US under the bus.

seftonm
02-28-2008, 09:48 PM
I can help you a bit with the Skoda, Wayne. The Skoda Octavia is built on the same platform as the VW Jetta. The Octavia RS comes with the 2.0 PD TDI (not the new CR-TDI). Skoda is a Czech company that was purchased by the VW Group in the early 90's. I have only talked to a few Europeans about this, but their opinion seemed to be that Skodas are lower priced VW's with some of the bells and whistles taken out. When I was in the Czech Republic during the summer, Skodas seemed to be everywhere.

xcel
02-29-2008, 12:23 AM
Hi Mike:

___Thank you for some of that excellent history! On a similar note, are they (Skoda) going to get the new 2.0 or will they be stuck with the older PD’s for the upcoming model year? That soon the arrive 2.0 is becoming seriously attractive the more I readna dwrite about it ;)

___Good Luck

___Wayne

seftonm
02-29-2008, 02:25 AM
I don't really know what to expect. Since Skoda seems to be the entry-level brand, it could take some time for the new TDI to trickle down to them. Most Skodas seemed to have smaller engines such as the 1.9, the 2.0 PD TDI was very rare. It may not be worth it to retool the car for the new engine when most of their business is with lower-powered engines, so they may just hold off until the whole vehicle is redesigned. The 1.9, likely being cheaper to produce, could carry on for a while as the base TDI or in the smaller cars. I just finished reading about the upcoming redesign of the Skoda Superb (VW Passat relative) and it will have the 1.9, 2.0 PD, and 2.0 CR.
http://new.skoda-auto.com/COM/about/info/news/News/Pages/2008_03_NewSkodaSuperb3.aspx

I actually laughed when I saw my first Skoda. It was a Skoda Fabia, similar in size to a previous generation Jetta, cruising down the highway at 80+ mph. As it passed our bus, I saw the logo on the back and it said "1.4", as in a 1.4L engine. So much for needing big power to go fast.

ocmpgd
02-29-2008, 05:42 AM
So this is a world wide problem not just a USA problem like everyone would like to make us think?

It's easier to point your finger and throw US under the bus.


I think the only significant difference between Europe and the US is the average vehicle size.

In fact driving in the US feels a lot more relaxed than, certainly, here in the UK.

hobbit
02-29-2008, 06:34 AM
I thought "ecodriving" was really taking off across Europe, and
not so much on this side of the pond? Or is Germany a special case?
.
What's the European take on following distance?
.
_H*

Zenox
02-29-2008, 03:27 PM
I thought "ecodriving" was really taking off across Europe, and
not so much on this side of the pond? Or is Germany a special case?
.
What's the European take on following distance?
.
_H*

German car makers didn't have any intention of producing fuel efficient cars until European laws and regulations forced them to. I think this still reflects in German people's driving behavior. Speeds of 90 or 100 MPH on the highways are considered normal. Drivers trying to better their FE are rare and often accused of dangerous driving - nothing new there I imagine :o.

As for ecodriving taking off well, I haven't seen much of that yet. There have been some (not so much rumored) campaigns but impact still seems to be minimal. People are just too much geared towards driving pleasure which often translates in jack rabbit starts and high speed driving. Germany is by no means a special case in this regard. They're only different to other countries for not having speed limits on their highways.

I can't say much about following distance except that drivers are advised to keep a safe distance. Large trucks can be penalized for following too close.

Regards,

phoebeisis
02-29-2008, 06:05 PM
Wow, I always figured that the "no speed limit-100+mpg roads" was some sort of Euro urban legend-that there was maybe one road in all of Europe that had 100 mph speeds.
So, lots of Euros drive at 80+ mph? 65mph is considered unsafe on the equivalent of an interstate??
The Euros must really trust their tires; a blowout at 80 mph is an absolute handful in any car.
I wonder what the rush is; a 500 mile trip will get you across most European countries-just 8 hours at 62mph.
Charlie

Zenox
03-01-2008, 04:19 AM
Wow, I always figured that the "no speed limit-100+mpg roads" was some sort of Euro urban legend-that there was maybe one road in all of Europe that had 100 mph speeds.
So, lots of Euros drive at 80+ mph? 65mph is considered unsafe on the equivalent of an interstate??
The Euros must really trust their tires; a blowout at 80 mph is an absolute handful in any car.
I wonder what the rush is; a 500 mile trip will get you across most European countries-just 8 hours at 62mph.
Charlie


No, most European countries, if not all, have speed limits on their highways except for Germany. That doesn't hold a fair amount of drivers back to exceed the limit when no speedtraps are around though. In Belgium for instance the speed limit is 75 mph.


Regards



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