Archives

Do-it-yourselfer Weber oversees plug-in project. (http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080224/BUSINESS01/802240692/1014)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/Frank_Weber_-_Volt_design_team_manager.jpgKatie Merx - Detroit Free Press - Feb. 24, 2008

GM has the talent on board to deliver. Now let us hope they can execute and at a reasonable price. -- Ed.

The future of General Motors Corp. -- the most electrifying part of it, at least -- rests squarely on the slim shoulders of Frank Weber.

He is responsible for the day-to-day tasks of bringing the Chevrolet Volt plug-in electric car to market by 2010.

Developing the Volt and its E-Flex powertrain entails technical challenges on a tight time frame in hopes of recasting GM as the world's most advanced and environmental automaker -- one that can do what even Toyota can't. Shepherding the effort to develop what GM calls a "range-extended electric vehicle" is Weber (pronounced VAY-buh), an independent thinker and tinkerer who seeks to live in harmony with nature.

If the Volt were its own start-up, Weber would be the CEO -- and the chief technical officer.

"The work he and his team are doing is vital for the future. ... This is the tip of the spear heralding the paradigm shift away from 'Let's spend billions to use a bit less oil' to 'Let's spend hundreds of millions to use no oil at all,' " GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz said of Weber by e-mail.

It's uncharted territory for his team of more than 200 engineers and 45 designers, demanding breakthroughs in battery technology as well as important advances in dozens of other areas and high expectations for style and value.

"I like to create things," Weber said. "I don't like too much that somebody comes and gives the answer." … http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080224/BUSINESS01/802240692/1014

Hmmm,
If they can get just 30 miles all electric,and 45 mpg at 65 mph on the generator it would be "better" than the Prius.It doesn't "need" the 40 all electric miles.I would bet 80% of folks drive less than 30 miles per day.If it can sell for just $3000 more than a Prius, it will be a winner.
A Prius uses about .75 gallons for 30 miles-the Volt will use the equivalent of .25 gallons(it should get about 6 miles on 1000 watt hrs-cost 12 cents-aboput 60 cents for 30 miles vs about $2.25 for the Prius).Electricity-mainly coal,nuke-probably won't go up much as gasoline climbs to $5/gallon.
The Volt could cost $3/day less than the Prius with $5 gas- $1000/yr-and very little of it enriching our friends in the ME or South America.It will run on Coal,Nuke,wind,hydro,solar-we have plenty of those resources(coal,wind,sun) or can buy it easily enough-nuke fuel.
These pundits have it wrong-TOYOTA IS NOT WELL LIKED AS A CAR COMPANY. Honda yes,Toyota-NO WAY!!Honda folks are fanatics-they love Honda.Toyota buyers are strictly bottom line buyers that buy the most reliable efficient car for the $$.Honda has true fanatics-heck if you just look at numbers no one would buy a a HCH 2 instead of a Prius.Honda sells plenty of HCH 2's for the same price as the Prius because Honda has loyal customers-they like Honda as a corp.Honda never built the V-8,and because of it they lost the marketing battle with Toyota.They built the cars their customers needed.They didn't build what the customers 'said" they wanted-if they did they would never have beaten Toyota with side side curtain airbags in small cars.
Many,many Toyota buyers remember being screwed by Toyota dealers with dealer add on pinstripes,protection packages etc-worthless crap we had to buy to get their admittedly superior cars.We are just waiting to drop Toyota,and go to GM,Ford or Honda if we get a chance.Toyota could have reined in their dealers, but they didn't.
Toyota is THE Microsoft of car companies.It can NASCAR all it wantsbut we will drop it in a second for GM,and drop it in 2 seconds for Honda or Ford. Dodge is dead,I'm afraid.
Charlie
No one "Loves" their Toyota!!No one "hops up" or dresses up a Toyota like they do Civics or GMs.

Interesting read -- I hope they do come out with what turns out to be a true 40mi range for most people -- which would be more like 60mi for a dedicated hypermiler. ;) Such a car would make most days completely liquid fuel free for me.

Come on, GM! Make us proud of American car manufacturing!

Then all those 20,000 plus people over at Priuschat and
Priusonline are all wrong? C'mon, dude.
.
And as to Weber et al ... "uncharted territory" ??! where do
they come up with gems like this...
.
_H*

I watched the movie "who killed the electric car" this weekend. I hope you guys get to see it. This car might change my feelings about GM, but I'm going to wait and see. The above post about Toyota is right on. The dealers are the slimy kind. The only ones that I have ever dealt with that were for the most part were VW and Honda dealers.

Hi Charlie:

___Way OT :(

___About the Toyota bashing … You do know that Honda is infamous for market price adjustments whenever they have a hot model and if you have not experienced that first hand (99 Ody and the 01 – 02 MDX are just two examples), look out! Ever go attempt to trade in your Honda for another and get low balled right out of the dealership? All the while there is this beautiful poster explaining how JD Power has awarded Honda the company with the highest resale value of any other … And than the HCH vs. Prius. The Prius is rated as the most reliable vehicle sold in America and its owner loyalty is off the charts compared to anything else one may consider. Another small anecdote is that the HCH was purchased at a rate of a ~ 1/6th the numbers that the Prius did last year. The enthusiasts are not purchasing Civic Hybrids if that is what you may have thought?

___Is there issues with Toyota and the Prius? Sure just as there are with everything else on the market. Even still, bashing Toyota would be counterproductive given what they have offered the hybrid and fuel saving non-hybrid community the past few years.

___Back on track … GM has its work cut out for it that is for sure. If they attempt to pull a $35 - $40K MSRP on the Volt while being built off an all-new Cobalt platform and with current Cobalt’s going out the door at 1/3 the price without the electronics, they are not reading the market correctly. Toyota can offer up a PHEV-6 tomorrow for another $1K over and above the current Prius-II and that in and of itself should scare the hell out of everybody entering into the PHEV market.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Wayne,
Yes,I bash Toyota, but not because they don't build good cars.Our Prius has been perfect-17000 city miles all the time getting 80% better mpg than our 2001 Prizm/Corolla in the same city driving.
Yes,I remember all the gouging Honda dealer did/do.Rick Hendrick-owner of Hendrick racing for non Nascar folks-plead guilty in the late 80's to a felony for some scheme he ran out of his Honda Distributorship.He was shaking down dealers for kickbacks.They had to kick back so much to him for every Civic/Accord he would allow them to buy from him.He might have even done some jail time for it.
Toyota has no corner on slimy,gouging dealers.
My beef with Toyota is that they are burying GM/Ford. Most of GM's problems were self inflicted-their poor FE and over priced cars in the 60's that opened the door to the Japanese,and their crummy cars with poor FE in the 70's 80's. Now GM can't out compete Toyota despite having decent to good QC.GM just can't produce a vehicle in the USA for as little as Toyota;their labor/legacy costs are just too high.
If the Volt doesn't have at least a 30 mile all electric range,and if it isn't under $28,000(within 2-3K of a Prius), it just won't be the winner it needs to be.I don't think it needs a 40 mile all electric range-nice, but not a make or break point for me.Like you say,the Prius might be just $1000- or so from having a plug in Prius with maybe 10-15 mile all electric range.
If the Volt costs $35000-GM is dead.Unfortunately GMs labor costs are so high.....it might.I hope the $55,000 Hybrid Tahoe isn't a good indicator.Base Tahoes advertise for $28,000!!

I'm pulling for GM.Toyota makes excellent cars, but........they aren't loved,and their cars aren't loved.Honda,Volvo,Suburu,BMW,Chevy all have owners who love their cars.No one loves a Corolla/Camry.Toyota is aware of their unloved status-probably why they created Scion.
Charlie
PS I'll restrain my Toyota bashing-heck I have one in the driveway- and have for almost 40 years.

My beef with Toyota is that they are burying GM/Ford. Most of GM's problems were self inflicted-their poor FE and over priced cars in the 60's that opened the door to the Japanese,and their crummy cars with poor FE in the 70's 80's. Now GM can't out compete Toyota despite having decent to good QC.GM just can't produce a vehicle in the USA for as little as Toyota;their labor/legacy costs are just too high.
...
If the Volt costs $35000-GM is dead.Unfortunately GMs labor costs are so high.....it might.I hope the $55,000 Hybrid Tahoe isn't a good indicator.Base Tahoes advertise for $28,000!!

You've brought up GM's labor and legacy costs before, and I found information to suggest that Toyota's labor costs are on par with GM (the discussion is at http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8845). Where can I verify that GM is drowning in labor and legacy costs relative to other companies? Where can I find verifiable information on the relative manufacturing costs of Toyota vs. GM (including labor)? I looked far and wide and could find nothing to verify your claims. As of now, your claims are unsubstantiated conjecture.

In any case, I sincerely doubt that increased labor costs accounted for a $38 billion loss in a year. Assuming that there is a labor cost disparity, that would maybe account for a couple billion. I think we'd have to look elsewhere for a fuller explanation.

If the Volt doesn't have at least a 30 mile all electric range,and if it isn't under $28,000(within 2-3K of a Prius), it just won't be the winner it needs to be.I don't think it needs a 40 mile all electric range-nice, but not a make or break point for me.Like you say,the Prius might be just $1000- or so from having a plug in Prius with maybe 10-15 mile all electric range.

In order to be within $2-3K of a Prius, a base-level Volt would have to be $24,000. GM has a lot of work to do and may even have to take a loss for a while to make the Volt popular enough to catch on (though they've been good at that lately).

I do hope that GM can make the Volt a success. They have a lot of clout as an American car company, and a successful Volt will legitimize the PHEV concept in a lot of haters' minds (well, GM did it), and if the E-flex platform delivers on most of its promises, it could be a great boon to alternative fuel development. Right now, though, I just can't trust GM to follow through on the Volt...I hope I'm wrong.