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I'm somewhat familiar with the differences between the 1st and 2nd gen Prius, but I have no idea what the differences are between the two HCH generations. Would someone be so kind as to enlighten me?

Two easy ones:

Only the HCH I has a 5-speed
The HCH II has a cool double-deck dash to make it easy to have an eye on the road.

Hi Daox:

___I cannot say to the exact point to point differences but here are a few. The HCH-I’s (non-SULEV versions) were lean burn capable and thus had the superior highway FE. A MAF and a NOx adsorber CAT for that which are very expensive to replace if you ever have to? The HCH-II uses some valve tricks to button up the cylinders during Regen and its particular steady state EV and EV Glide modes. The HCH-I had no EV/EV-Glide modes of note. More powerful and efficient IMA with a flat wire wrapped unit on the -II. The HCH-II also includes more amenities and is more functional with the standard side and side curtains, upgraded stereo, inclusion of NAVI if you wanted and a higher price of course. Only a CVT is available in the -II vs. a stick and a CVT in the -I. Size wise, the –II is actually a smaller vehicle but you would not say that when looking at them side by side. Look in the Automobile spec sheets for the dimensions but I believe the luggage cap and passenger volume was decreased just a touch with the new more aerodynamic body style.

___Driving them? The HCH-II seems much quieter and has more driver - front leg room imho although I have not had but maybe 75 miles in the HCH-II vs. a few hundred in the –I and a long time passing in between each drive.

___Highway driver, the -I w/ a stick would be my choice. Around town, between the CVT's, probably a wash?

___Good Luck

___Wayne

I'll chime in with my (probably) incomplete listing. ;)

The HCHI was available with a manual transmission and that version had lean burn -- very similar to the Insight. I may be mistaken but I believe the CVT version (also like the Insight) did not have lean burn capability. The gauge cluster is reminiscent of the Insight's but is slightly rearranged and uses analog mechanisms for both the speedometer and the tachometer. See below:

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/504/photo.jpg

The HCHII is only available with CVT, has a larger interior, and sports a two level display of IMA functions to help keep the most relevant info close to a view of the road. The gauges in this vehicle do not resemble those in either of the previous generations of IMA vehicles (Insight as the 1st, HCHI as the 2nd). In addition, the battery pack size was raised, the motor power was increased, and a new mode for the engine was introduced which features a special placement of the valves to nearly entirely remove pumping losses. Though the motor is still coupled to the engine permanently, due to the larger battery and more powerful motor the car is able to overcome the resistance of the engine (thanks to the new low pumping loss operation) and enter what can be called an EV glide for short periods of time which are very very close to the level of resistance encountered during a FAS in a manual transmission. There have been occasional accounts of being able to use this to maintain and even increase speed at very low velocities (in a parking lot, for example). IIRC, the CVT ratios were also increased to give a greater range of operation -- this allows more efficient operation at a wider range of speeds.

TaraBell's excellent (I can't praise it enough!) article has some excellent pictures of the gauge clusters and wonderful descriptions of EV glide.

I hope that helps!

I'll attempt to spit out the differences I am aware of that others have not mentioned. The engines of the HCH-1 and HCH-2 are ENTIRELY different beasts.

The HCH-1 has a 1.3L, 4 cyl with 16 valves, 4 per cylinder. It also has 2 spark plugs per cylinder, using what Honda calls i-DSI ignition (intelligent Dual Sequential Ignition) to promote a cleaner, more complete burn of the intake charge in lean-burn conditions.

The HCH-1 also has a single stage VTEC mechanism - however, it is not the VTEC-E seen in the Civic VX / HX / Insight (opens only one valve at low RPM). Rather, the intake ports in the head have tuned lengths and shape to promote swirl. The VTEC mechanism closes the intake valves on 3 of the 4 cylinders during deceleration to maximize braking regeneration.

The electric motor is rated at 13 hp.

Info from: http://corporate.honda.com/press/article.aspx?id=2003112038240

Next, the HCH-2. The HCH-2 also has a 4cyl, 1.3L design but only 2 valves per cylinder for a total of 8 valves. This is to decrease frictional losses. In addition, it has a 3 stage vtec mechanism - low rpm, high rpm, and off. In the off mode, all intake valves are closed and the engine becomes a lossless pump. This mode is used during deceleration and low speed electric-only cruising. The low and high cams are to optimize power in low and high rpm ranges, respectively.

In addition, the electric motor is a beefier 20 hp unit to allow for true low speed electric only cruising. The HCH-2's electric motor also delivers 2x the torque of the HCH-1's electric motor.

Hope this helps a little bit , let me know if anything needs clarification.

Hot dang, Ben! You and I need to meet sometime so I can plumb some more info from that inexhaustible fount of Honda knowledge! :eek:

Hi Ben:

___Between you and MSantos, I do not know what we would do without you two wrt to the HCH-II in particular :)

___Good Luck

___Wayne

What can I say, just a big Honda fan since high school. Sadly, most of my know-how is limited to 92-00 Civics and Integras... I think I can tell you the size of every bolt on those cars, and how many bolts / where they are to remove everything, as well as the tightening sequence and torque specs of all important engine bolts.

I'm very excited to see what Honda's got in their pocket re. future hybrids, especially the one to be announced this year.

Knowing the features and technology is one thing, being able to take full advantage of them while driving is another!

This particular hardware mod comes to mind for the HCH-2: Disable fuel injectors (FAS switch or similar) and manually throw the VTEC system into "off" - this would "force" a FAS glide almost as effective as coasting engine off.

If you could add IMA control to the mix, you would have EV mode at the flip of a switch.

Thanks for the explinations guys, especially shifty, very nice! I was hoping to hear that the HCHII could run in series and parallel hybrid mode. But, I guess with the VTEC its not quite as important and the drivetrain is probably simpler and maybe cheaper?

I'm more of a Toyota guy, but if Honda comes out with another killer sub-compact to replace the Insight I'll be on the Honda wagon soon enough.

Off topic, but the HCHII is sold in Japan as MXB, MX and MXST, (ST is just a sports type of MX, i.e larger wheels),but the MXB is a "drive by wire" version and gets the best 10/15 FE rating 31km/L, the MX gets 28.5km/L. Is the MXB option not available in the U.S?
I did not find any mention in the new automobile specs.

Good Luck
Andrew

Hi Andrew:

___In the US, the HCH-II is only available as a feature laydened base model or can be upgraded with NAVI which includes some nice stereo additions like XM and a digital card reader (MP3’s) for another $1,750 USD. Both are DBW with the exact mechanical layout.

___Do you have a pic of the Japanese MXST sport model as I bet there are quite a few here that would love to see it :)

___Good Luck

___Wayne

What is the Cd of the HCH-I? I just saw it mentioned that the HCHII is .27.

All new Civics sold in the US have drive-by-wire at this time.

This includes the R18 variants, the SI (K20), and the Hybrid.

Hi Daox:

___The numbers I picked up from Honda a while ago show a Cd at 0.28.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Apparently the MXB is just the base model, MX has all of the features of the MXB plus discharge headlights and other bling(electrified). There was a picture here at honda site of the MXST and other Civics. (Warning in Japanese) if you scroll down.

http://www.honda.co.jp/CIVIC/webcatalogue/type/index.html

Good Luck
Andrew

Hi Andrew:

___Thank you for linking the Japanese Honda Civic - pricing/basic spec/pic page directly! I see what looks like a NAVI screen on the lowest price MXB??? Is it a feature laydened MFD or is NAVI included with the least expensive model too?

___Good Luck

___Wayne

There is no mention of Navi in the MXB, MX or MXST details as listed.
Usually this would be in the dealer options list, I would have to check with a dealer.

Thanks
Andrew

I was wondering about the MXB and MX FE difference on the 10/15 test, 31km/L vs. 28.5km/L (10%) (link in Japanese). Discharge lamps etc. are not on. The MX has a spoiler on the trunk.

http://www.honda.co.jp/CIVIC/webcatalogue/environment/index.html

Which version was driven in the re-enactment 1908 NY-SF run?

Thanks
Andrew