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Advanced hybrids made of lighter materials will increase fuel efficiency (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22317130/)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/Honda_CR-Z_hybrid_sports_car_concept.jpgAP – Dec. 19, 2007

Or will it? -- Ed.

WASHINGTON - Automakers will turn to a mix of fuel-efficient vehicles and technologies — from advanced hybrids and clean diesels to lightweight materials — to respond to tougher fuel efficiency standards approved by Congress, industry leaders said Tuesday.

Amid rising fuel prices, car makers have been expecting the more stringent requirements and emphasized their choices of vehicles that get more miles to the gallon.

But the energy bill, which will require the industry's fleet of new cars, sport utility vehicles, pickup trucks and vans to average 35 miles per gallon by 2020, will help shape the lineup of new cars appearing in dealers showrooms during the next decade.

President Bush is expected to sign the legislation Wednesday… http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22317130/

I am hopeful the next few years will be an exciting time for hybrid & clean diesel technology.

The biggest thing this bill will do is raise the price of groceries, so what we avoid donating to Big Oil, we can now pay Big AgriBusiness.

What a bad joke...

Harry

When Bush was not going to sing the bill he was bad for the environment. Now that he did the bill is bad for the environment. You can't have it both ways.

The bill has been changed leaving several loop holes available and taking out all of the good things for the environment that were in the bill.


It certainly is bad news.

The bill has been changed leaving several loop holes available and taking out all of the good things for the environment that were in the bill.


It certainly is bad news.

I'd really like to believe that economic pressures can trump bad legislation, and it will partially, but not to the extent that is needed. We need a law with actual teeth, or else it's basically pointless.

You give car companies an inch and they'll take a mile.

Personally I think its the media thats fueling this. Bush will be heralded for being environmentaly conscience, but in reality he'll just be lining his and his buddies pockets with money and once again selling out to big business.

The issue is that most people look at things for what their title is and ignore whats written inside. Sortof like the patriot act.... Oh my your unamerican if you don't want to protect ourselfs... never mind giving up several liberties and freedoms that are guaranteed to us in our constitution.


Just because they raised to FE requirements doesn't mean squat when they allow loopholes to enable automakers to continue to make FSP's (fuel sucking pigs)

I hope its not too much to ask the next president to try and get some sort of bill passed through congress to fix this travasty... although they probably lack to gonads to do anything to upset their lobbists.


*sigh* between this and the parroting of corn-based ethanol proponets I think I need a drink. I promise to make it a stiff one.

*sigh* between this and the parroting of corn-based ethanol proponets I think I need a drink. I promise to make it a stiff one.


You can expect a rise in the price of that stiff drink, since the price of corn and other grains have gone through the roof.

Anything in that bill about incentives, tax breaks for fuel-efficient cars?

Any penalties for gas hogs? Or is this whole bill for the benefit of Archer Daniels Midland?

Harry

The biggest thing this bill will do is raise the price of groceries, so what we avoid donating to Big Oil, we can now pay Big AgriBusiness.

What a bad joke...

Harry

Time for everyone to start growing their victory gardens and cut back on processed foods.

You can expect a rise in the price of that stiff drink, since the price of corn and other grains have gone through the roof.

Anything in that bill about incentives, tax breaks for fuel-efficient cars?

Any penalties for gas hogs? Or is this whole bill for the benefit of Archer Daniels Midland?

Harry

Harry,

You caught onto the joke I was implying... Ethanol is the same thing in our alcholic drinks. Better drink up now while it doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

They took out the tax incentives for PHEV's in the revision of the bill.

The "Hummer Tax break" is still in there... as well as the provisions for flex-fuel. basically took out all the incentives for high FE cars and left all the loopholes for the gas hogs.

While there are loop holes, doesn't this mean that the compacts and sedans that are on the market must be at that level?

What does this mean for manufacturers like bmw? None of their cars avg 30 mpg, will we effectively see the end of high priced luxury performance cars if their avg has to be 35?

The biggest thing this bill will do is raise the price of groceries, so what we avoid donating to Big Oil, we can now pay Big AgriBusiness.

What a bad joke...

Harry

I think most Americans could stand to eat a lot less (myself included).

Louis B

Hi Sup’d:

___BMW only needs to add its own Tier II/Bin 5 compliant diesel after treatments and they will be killing the 35 mpg (I mean 26 mpg!!!) standard but increasing performance at the same time. In fact, I am counting on both Audi and BMW to bring over their best CI-ICE’s and absolutely embarrassing the domestics into increasing their own fuel efficiency. It will be something to see a 3 or 5-Series w/ a 3.0L V6 pumping out 250 + HP and 375+ Ft-Lb’s of torque while receiving 30 + mpg per the current EPA and burying everything Ford and GM make including the 130 + HP Focus and 106 HP Aveo :rolleyes:

Turbocharging – A transportation technology for ever higher FE (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6848)

___Good Luck

___Wayne

I think most Americans could stand to eat a lot less (myself included).

Louis B

Let me get this right: it's okay to foolishly promote a sea of ethanol, just so Americans can continue to drive over-sized vehicles and the Big Three get loopholes to sell said over-sized vehicles, and if it raises my grocery bills, tough luck?

I'm not overweight, and I already drive a vehicle that far exceeds the target mpg's of this foolish bill. I'm supposed to pay through the nose at the grocery store, so over-sized Americans can continue to drive over-sized gas-hogs, by way of the ethanol loop hole?

Oh, man, sure I'm happy as can be with that...NOT!

Harry

I guess that I am a "glass is half full type of person". I going to allow myself to be happy that Mr Bush will sign into law an increase in the CAFE for a few days. I never thought that he would.

Besides, I think the future holds a lot of diesels, and not ethanol burners.

Louis B

I guess that I am a "glass is half full type of person". I going to allow myself to be happy that Mr Bush will sign into law an increase in the CAFE for a few days. I never thought that he would.

Besides, I think the future holds a lot of diesels, and not ethanol burners.

Louis B

That is what I am thinking. The big 3 do sell cars in other countries that get 35+. All they have to do is make a few changes and then sell them here.

Ethanol is the same thing in our alcholic drinks. Better drink up now while it doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

i just started my first batch of apple wine yesterday!

this bill makes the prospect of my camaro becoming a dedicated E85 weekend warrior much more likely (I figure its not that bad if it only gets 15 MPG if there are very few emissions and the car is only driven a few hundred miles a year)


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WTF is wrong with you folks. This is way more than I expected. And north America flat out cant grow enough corn to put every bodys cars on white lighting.

I was glad to hear this myself!!!! Its a **** step in the right direction. But Nooooo some have to bitch about it.

Not giving one darn bit of thought to the work that has been done. On the gental side members here have helped other drivers all over the world. Hey I can help you get 2 mpg... Check this out. It is spreading like a ember's that could start a fire storm of interest.

But no.... The goverment is at fault, The automakers are all bad boys.

What do you want me to do? Make a unicycle? Shove it up my butt. So I can grunt transportation on demand? But then you would tax me for cutting down the cane to build the unicycle. OOOO but then there is the tax break I will get for implanting it up my rump.

I was real proud of my boss this week. He parked the GM 4x4 SUV that he fills up every day and a half. And bought a 08 Acrua TL. Sure ,,,, I would have liked to have seen him get a Camry hybrid a I4 Accord. He can't make use of a PII, Civic or Yaris. He is beaming. He is so happy to be getting 3x the mpg of the Hoe its not funny. But Im sure some here find that very disappointing. So why don't you just call him at 918-664-9756. Ask for Cary and suggest the unicycle implant idea.

Its getting to the point nothing seems to make a part of this community happy.

Its never enough,,,,,,, never enough.

Some of the few good things about this bill:

35 MPG by 2020 (yes, no increase until 2011 or 2013), flexfuel credit is phased out, cellulosic ethanol is pushed more than corn-based.

At some point, I'll take what I can get.

Hi Jeff:

___It is great that there was an improvement. What is not so great is the smoke and mirrors applied. Large P/U and SUV’s with loopholes, all vehicles with unadjusted dyno results created in the late 60’s and early 70’s applied to an Energy Bill created and signed into law in 2008.

___Whooopeee! At a whopping real world 26 mpg by 2020, we will by then importing over 70% of our daily consumption. Thank goodness prices will rise due to lack of supply so as to put the big 3 and everybody involved with them out of business.


___This bill so undershot the mark to the benefit of Big Oil and its paid side of the House, Senate and Admin it will put that many more out of business in the long run due to doing “just enough”. Let alone where all that oil money is headed … Our friends in the desert if you know what I mean :(

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Question: How do you get 26MPG from 35MPG? Don't say e85, their phasing it out.

Also, anyone see today that the EPA killed CARB's new standards as "redundant"? Yeah, roughly 43 MPG by 2013 is equal to 35MPG by 2020. NOT!

Detroit got away with murder.

Because the numbers used for cafe are not the normal epa numbers. Cafe uses virtual FE numbers, that most people will never be able to see, (sort of like the complains about the old epa numbers only worse).

The 26 is just deflating the cafe number to what the actual epa number would be. As for the carb, 43mpg would be difficult, but not impossible.

I do agree with the epa in that we only need 1 standard, multiple standards can't make things difficult when you have to move.