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I've been looking at a variety of bikes that could potentially get pretty decent FE ...say 60 to 80 mpg with a little coaxing.

Initially I was interested in scooters, but the 49 cc models are really too light for the 40 mile round trip commute I make on a state highway (50-55 mph speed limit). So I've expanded the search to include bikes like Honda's 230 dirt/street bike combo, the Rebel 250, and perhaps even the light cruiser in the 600 cc range.

Any thoughts on these types of bikes as potential high mileage machines?

I bought a 1997 Honda Shadow 600 VLX in the spring. See here (http://www.cleanmpg.com/index.php?page=garage&displayunits=MPG(US)&viewcar=384) for my mileage log.

So, it's approaching 60 MPG with ten years of age, a variety of driving conditions (some in-city, some on the highway, some in between), a fairly heaver driver (two hundred <mumbles> pounds), and a frequent passenger (relatively light, but still another one hundred <mumbles> pounds).

A Buell Blast (500cc) will do 60-65 MPG easily, and I pulled a 71 MPG tank with some minor tricks.

My '88 Honda Hawk (647cc) will do 60-63 MPG during normal commutes.

I would like to try a Kawasaki 305 twin with the belt drive, bet it could get into the 80's.

A Kawasaki Ninja 250 will net you 60+ MPG if driven nicely, and proves to be a great corner-carver as well.

A Kawasaki Ninja 250 will net you 60+ MPG if driven nicely, and proves to be a great corner-carver as well.

Was going to be my first suggestion. It's one of those bikes that beginners learn on, move up to bigger, faster, or more comfortable bikes, then return to because it's so much fun to ride.

If you're into compact cruisers, there's also the Honda Rebel 250 and the AlphaSport GV250 on the new market, and the Yamaha Virago 250 on the used market. Some would recommend the Kawi 125 Eliminator, but it's underpowered to the point of being dangerous and the motor has to work so hard to overcome its lack of power that it doesn't get all that great gas mileage. The aforementioned Buell Blast is a great choice, too, better in many ways than the Ninja 250 but is a quirky bike. There's also the Suzuki GS500 and Honda Nighthawk 600 for standards, and Suzuki GZ250 and Honda Nighthawk 250 for compact standards as well. The Nighthawks, though, I've heard to be a bit uncomfortable with quirky handling.

I didn't think the Shadow 600 would get that great gas mileage. It's got a wide-ratio 4-speed which seems too tall in the lower gears and too short up top...the wide ratios mean it favors being wound out pretty hard before shifting, too (or at least the one I rode did). If you're looking at the midsize cruiser class, the Yamaha V-Star 650 would be **** hard to beat, though Suzuki also has a 40ci (~650) cc single-cylinder machine called the Boulevard S40 - kind of a cheap-looking machine, though, IMHO.

as i got a kawaski ninja 250. i got it due too the gas millage and they are dirt cheap used as guys buy them too learn on. The best i ahve seen was 68 mpg. That was doing highway roads with little plaing around with. Just easy riding. As Im also a big guy it would be better(im 6'9 280lbs). I do get around 58 in city for the most part and will see 64 or so when im just cruzing out on the highway. As I saw a magazine article about it while back and the test rider/author of the article got like 75 mipg with his loaner down in cali.

I'm not a real big bike guy, but I know I was looking at the Suzuki SV650 before I ended up getting my current bike. Its a two cylinder and has more low rpm torque than the similar sized 4 cylinders, and is thusly geared lower. I would think this would return better fuel economy. However, I paid no attention to fuel economy when I was looking. Its more of a crotch rocket type, but I hear you sit a lot more upright on it. You'd have to try it for yourself though.

Thanks so much for the suggestions and counsel so far. The little Ninja sounds intriguing. Is it fairly comfortable to ride? Being somewhat older than the average Ninja rider, I don't want to be leaning too far forward.

Thanks again

Geared taller I would bet on the 250 Honda,maybe the 250 Ninja .The Ninja is probably 25-30 RWHP vs maybe 15-20 on the Rebel.
I had a SV650-it was fun-but mpg in the low 40's with stock gearing.It would be an absolute rocketship compared to the other bikes mentioned.
The Buell Blast never caught on,so you can buy them with very low miles for under $2000.They get excellent mpg-65+ dead stock.They give decent performance-under 6 secs 0-60-plenty fast enough-much quicker than the Rebel,about the same as the 250 Ninja.The Ninja will have you bent over-less comfortable if you aren't young.
The Rebel,and the Buell will probably give the best mpg right out of the box-stock gearing etc-The Ninja might match them with much taller gearing.(fun little bike).
The Buell is probably 390lbs wet-the Ninja and Rebel maybe 360 lbs wet.Buell and Rebel have nice low seat heights-maybe 26"-the Ninja maybe 30".
The Rebel won't accelerate very fast-this MIGHT-MIGHT- be a safety concern if you have to merge onto an interstate.Some car drivers completely ignore MCs.
If you don't want to lean,the Blast might be a better bet than the Ninja-the Rebel will have you nice and upright also.The Blast might be tougher to sell later on-the Honda and Kawa will sell easily.Just don't pay more than $2000 for a Blast,and get as few miles,and as late a model as possible.There were some early problems with the Blast.
Luck,
Charlie
PS My 1983 VT500 Honda Ascot gets 45mpg in pure stoplight to stoplight-riding.My average trip is just 2 miles.Hy it would get 60 mpg at 60 mph.

A guy at work rides an 07 GZ250 Suzuki. He gets heckled by the Harley and Goldwing riders but he doesn't let it bother him. He gets from 70 to 80 mpg on it and he rides faithfully. He rode today in light rain, 37 degrees and arrived at 6:00a.m. I gave him a "pat on the back" last week for his dedication.

I would estimate that 80% of the vehicles in the parking lot are 4wd trucks and suv's. One guy drives 70 miles each way in a 4wd, 4door Chevy.

The little GZ250's what I learned on at my MSF course - it's an easy bike to ride, though the single cylinder motor's not very smooth at low RPM's - lugging it is NOT recommended. Although, being an MSF bike, it's been beat to hell, so take that with a grain of salt. It does have a good, upright seating position, though.

I went through this almost 2 years ago. I checked out many different bikes and settled on a Harley Sportster. The 883XL there basic bike is big enough to drive at any legal speed. Gets good fuel milage when driven properly. Inexpensive to buy, easy to do your own work on, good parts availably, and cheap to insure. The 2007's and up are fuel injected and require the more expensive gas. 2006 and earlier run on regular gas.

And as a side bonus...if you ever have a change of heart and decide to go "hot rod" with an 883 Sportster, the 1200cc kit is more or less a bolt in...and still gets insured and registered as an 883cc :) One of the more fun-to-ride of the cruiser class, too, I hear.

I get 50-55 mpg on my Suzuki gs500f riding 80+mhp. The full fairing helps too. For the money it is a much more versatile bike than the ninja 250. You have some power available if need, but you can get very decent gas mileage if desired. Also, it is a sports tourer type of bike, with a very comfortable riding position. I have no problems with my 70+ miles daily commute.

I am also a heavy 220+ lbs guy, and for the engine size this bike offers enough power to get you out of a potential situation without being too much for a novice rider.

Also research the ninja 500. They are suppose to be very comparable (if not better) to the Suzuki.

When I first posted in this thread I went back to review my mileage log. I had some tanks well in excess of 60 MPG, but some in the 40s. I just attributed it to variations in riding conditions.

I winterized the bike in November, including topping off the fuel tank and adding fuel stabilizer. Earlier this week I went out to push it around a bit to keep the tires from flat spotting. I noticed a sloshing sound in the tank suggesting something other than a full tank. I opened it and found it considerably less than full. I've been noticing a slight whiff of gasoline for some time, but I didn't heed it (mistake now, I realize). So obviously I have a fuel leak.:(

To the point of this thread: My fuel mileage is almost certainly higher than what my CleanMPG mileage log documents. As I look back on the log again, longer refill intervals seem to be associated with some of the poorer results (more time to leak).

And to stray a bit off topic: Any theories as to where the leak might be coming from? Are there any points in the tank or fuel line where this bike in particular, or any in general, might be predisposed to developing leaks? I've peeked under the tank and do not see any obvious leak source.

What kind of bike is it? If the fuel petcock is left open or leaking through, it could do an occasional purge from the overflow on the carb that you wouldn't see unless you were there when it did it.

What kind of bike is it? If the fuel petcock is left open or leaking through, it could do an occasional purge from the overflow on the carb that you wouldn't see unless you were there when it did it.
1997 Honda Shadow 600 VLX.

I checked the petcock to make sure it was closed. (Or at least indicated it was closed.) And I drained the carbs as part of the winterizing. Would that prevent this overflow?

That should keep the overflow from happening. How about the fuel line from the tank down to the carby? That's the only place it could really physically be leaking from unless there's a hole in the tank itself.

You know, for an 1100cc bike, my Shadow Sabre's been very efficient. Highway mileage is consistently over 50mpg on secondary highways traveling at ~55mph. At 65 it still seems to register ~48mpg. In town it's a little more piggish, getting anywhere from 39-43mpg depending on the throttle hand. Of course, there's more efficient bikes out there, but again, considering it's 1100cc of long-stroke torque...

Jimbo:
Check your bowls again to see if they have fuel or not. If not, it would have to be a tank leak or a neighborhood kid siphoning. :D

What an awesome forum!
I am surprised I have not found this sooner.
Just thought I would throw in my 2 cents about the leak.
It could be evaporation. You might check out the Evaporation System, assuming it is still there. Could be old leaky hoses.
I have a 2000 Guzzi that had a known problem of vacuum building up in the fuel tank. The known fix at that time was to let it breath by disconnecting or removing a breather seal at the gas cap. The better fix is to properly situate the tip over valve. So until the new seal gets shipped from Italy, I continue to evaporate fuel.
Apparently all it takes is a pin hole to evaporate a few gallons per year.

As for bikes and gas mileage, I have owned the following and to the best of my recollection here is what I got for MPG:
1973? Honda SL125 60MPG
1973 Honda 500four 50MPG
1984 Moto Guzzi V65SP 50MPG
2000 Moto Guzzi V11S 35MPG
worst for V11S: 30MPG (happens frequently when bike sits evaporating or when doing short rides)
best 42MPG (happened during break in period and also if I catch a 20mph tail wind for 100+ miles)
The V11S was re-mapped for an after market exhaust and intake modification. This probably steals about 2 MPG.
I am planning on doing a more detailed mapping using a wide band oxygen sensor to optimize the air:fuel ratio.
With luck, I could be averaging 40 MPG.

I am too big at 6'3" and 220 pounds to ride most of the small 250cc bikes, but I have been considering the following bikes due to what I have learned from googling:
Triumph ST are known to get 40 - 60 MPG US
BMW F800 are known to get 40 - 70 MPG US
BMW F650 2004 or later are known to get 50 - 70 MPG US
Moto Guzzi's latest 700cc are probably about 45-60 MPG
Kawasaki's EX650 40 -70 MPG (claims are all over the place)
Suzuki SV 650 35 - 65 MPG (also all over the place)
The Harleys and other cruisers don't appeal to me, but I might consider one for commuting, just for the good MPG.
I also test rode a Vectrix Electric Scooter.
They are amazing and perfect for my commute, but at $11,000 they are hard to justify just for 3000 miles of annual commuting.
An electric assisted bicycle at about $3000 would consume a lot less electricity, help me get down to 200 pounds, but would be a slower commute....although it would be legal to zip by traffic on the shoulder!!!

dlaing.
I got about 40 mpg with my 2001(carb not FI)SV650. However,I'm sure it could get 55+ mpg highway if you geared it taller-much much taller.It has PLENTY OF POWER,and it wouldn't lug with 15% or more taller gearing.
It was a fun bike-a little rocket in fact!
I had almost all the older Yamaha~ 600's air cooled 4's-Seca 550-Radian-SecaII.I would get low mid 40's in pure city riding.They all could have used much taller gearing,and gotten in the 55 mpg hy at 60 mph.
Yamaha 550-600cc air cooled 4's-mid 40's
Yamaha 850 shaft-terrible 35 mpg back in 1980-shaft-so no regearing possible
SR500-60MPG pure city-kickstart single-stock gearing.
Honda Ascot FT500 single-about 48 mpg
Honda Ascot VT500 twin-45 mpg city-could do much better 60 mph hy-maybe 60 mpg-shaft so no regearing possible-nice bike-
SV650 35-40 mpg pure city-stock gearing.
A late model Blast can get great mpg-65mpg easy by many accounts.Cheap-$2000 for late model(2003 or so) low miles(under 5000 miles)


Luck,
Charlie

dlaing.
Yamaha 850 shaft-terrible 35 mpg back in 1980-shaft-so no regearing possible


I have one of these... mileage is terrible (same ~35)! People always assume I get good mileage bacause it's a bike, but the thing is a TANK! New HD's get WAY better mpg!

MAXX,
I really liked that 850 Triple, but I was stunned at how poor the mpg was.Heck for about $600 more I could have gotten a XS100 or a GS1100 and both of them got about 40 mpg.In 1980 we were all trying to get good mpg-the second embargo was preparing us for our current liquid fuel woes-we forgot it kinda' quickly of course!
I think the mc manufacturers were having problems meeting EPA regs,so they went to CV carbs.leaned them out at low RPMs loads, but overjetted them at higher loads rpms.It was a nice bike, but the worst guzzler bike I ever had(of about 40 mc over the years).It was pretty heavy also-maybe 530 lbs with fuel.
Thanks,
Charlie

Initially I was interested in scooters, but the 49 cc models are really too light for the 40 mile round trip commute I make on a state highway (50-55 mph speed limit).



I put 4000 miles on a 49cc Honda Ruckus, 55 miles per day commute last summer. Its not that bad once you get used to it. 102mpg. Top speed was 46mph downhill, 43 flat, 30 up steep hills. It sure was nice to ride on the sidewalk across interstate bridges....that were backed up 5 miles....;)

The Piaggio BV250 is an excellent Scooter that averages 70 mpg in town! http://www.piaggiousa.com/pScooters/BV200.cfm :)

I think I'm going to start looking for a 2004-2006 Sportster 883 (still carb'd and has rubber mount motors). Not that my Honda's a bad bike - in fact, it's a marvelous bike - but it's not a Harley, I can't customize the look I want out of it, and although the mileage is fantastic for a bike of its size, the 883 is still better on that front.

Scooters really have some appeal to me...simplicity and mpg. It would definitely take some getting used to the 49cc level.

I really like the modest sized dual purpose bikes...street/trail. Honda makes one that is a 230 cc. My guess is that it would do real well with fuel economy.

Any Scooter in the 250cc class will do super! Fast enough to keep up with traffic, yet small enough to still get 70 mpg in town. The automatic transmission is so much more fun to drive in traffic! Motor on!! :)

I like the idea of a scooter, but I hate the emissions. I checked out electric versions to get around this but unfortunately, unless you are willing to spend a LOT of money you can't get one that will go highway speeds or one that will manage at least 45mi on a charge. :(

I spent some time tonight researching the Honda 230 and Yamaha 250...both of them are dual purpose street/trail 4 cycle, single cylinder street/trail bikes.

Wondering if they could achieve 70 to 80 mpg with modest hypermiling?

Here is a link to a motorcycle fuel economy guide. (http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/MotorcycleFuelEconomyGuide/index.htm)

I spent some time tonight researching the Honda 230 and Yamaha 250...both of them are dual purpose street/trail 4 cycle, single cylinder street/trail bikes.

Wondering if they could achieve 70 to 80 mpg with modest hypermiling?

Anything in that displacement class should do it with ease. A lot of folks with Ninja 250's and Honda Rebel 250's get that without really even trying.

can't remember if i replied to this or not but my 04, harley superglide, ~with a carb~ (1450cc) rejet, pipes and high flow air cleaner, gets a consistent 49mpg. rarely less but only if i'm riding KaRazy.... it will get over 50mpg if i putz it.

i do not recommend riding a small bike in traffic. you will get NO RESPECT and it could cost you your life. get a bad-azz. big, loud nasty bike, an attitude and life insurance.....

Last Summer, I bought a '79 Kawasaki KZ650 to use as a daily rider in order to decrease my carbon footprint and save on gas. If I'd known then what I do now, I would've made a different choice.

Inline 4 cylinder motorcycle engines are biased towards high rpm horsepower, not torque. That means they're not going to like operating at lower rpms, where someone trying to eke fuel economy out of them is going to live.

Twin cylinder motorcycles make better torque, V-twind make more, yet, but singles make the most torque per cc, by far.

I think the best bet for hypermiling commuter bikes are dual sports. I rode a KLR 650 a few months ago, and was amazed. At 60 mph, with stock gearing, it pulls 900 rpms less than my KZ650, loses nothing on hills in high gear (and I'm 6'5", 290), and he's getting over 50 mpg, without doing any hypermiling.

Hi Sean:

___I never did see an intro but welcome to CleanMPG :)

___I have the entire list of Yamaha’s latest and greatest where their FE is concerned but the big numbers are coming from the 250’s. The XT225 pulls 73 mpgUS on the FTP75/HWFET. If you really want to see numbers, the scooters can make even an Insight look bad!

___Good Luck

___Wayne

i have an 04, harley superglide with a stage 1 carb kit, high-flow exhaust and air cleaner and i got 51mpg my last fill and i wasn't even trying to hypermile. my old 83 yamaha heritage special 650 got 74mpg.

my advice: get a twin with a carb and get something that commands respect on the highway because cowards in cages are EVERYWHERE. IMHO, a bike must be loud, big and have a "phuucckk u" attitude. if you get a candy-azz ride expect to be run down.

___I have the entire list of Yamaha’s latest and greatest where their FE is concerned but the big numbers are coming from the 250’s. The XT225 pulls 73 mpgUS on the FTP75/HWFET. If you really want to see numbers, the scooters can make even an Insight look bad!

I agree, the 250s are real misers. A guy I know has a KLR 250, and he's getting in the 70s. I've ridden it, though, and I think it's dangerously underpowered at highway speeds. Again, I'm 6'5" and 290, so that will clearly bias my opinion, but I just think a 250 is too small for a commuter bike that spends any time on the highway.

In Europe, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, etc, dual sports are very popular as commuters, and the 500cc class is the most popular. Kawasaki's KLE 500 is a huge seller over there, and would, in my opinion, be perfect, but they just don't sell them here.

I like the light feel and great handling of dual sports. Even with combination tires, they feel much more nimble than my KZ650. Put some street tires on one, and it's an absolute blast to drive; it'll carve corners up like a razor.

I started thinking about what my criteria for a perfect bike (for me) would be. I came up with:

Minimum 350 - maximum 500 cc

Electric start

6 speed transmission

Taller frame (6'5", remember?)

Worldwide, there are dozens of bikes that fit that criteria, but here in the States, the only one that does is a '93-97 Suzuki DR350.

I'm way upside down in my KZ650, but it gets 36 mpg (jetting isn't right yet, it'll get better), so my plan is to ride it and benefit from the resultant saving over driving my Jeep while looking for a good DR350 project bike.

i have an 04, harley superglide with a stage 1 carb kit, high-flow exhaust and air cleaner and i got 51mpg my last fill and i wasn't even trying to hypermile. my old 83 yamaha heritage special 650 got 74mpg.

my advice: get a twin with a carb and get something that commands respect on the highway because cowards in cages are EVERYWHERE. IMHO, a bike must be loud, big and have a "phuucckk u" attitude. if you get a candy-azz ride expect to be run down.

I had no idea Harleys got that kind of MPG. With all that weight, and such big displacement, I figured they'd be somewhere in the 30s.

Yeah, I have a Kawasaki Vulcan 500 that gets about 50mpg without hypermiling, and a Honda Rebel 250 that gets around 60mpg without hypermiling.

Hypermiling would get huge numbers outa these things. It's funny what jcp said about people going back to the smaller bikes to ride after learning. That's exactly what happened to me. The Kawasaki Vulcan pretty much sits while I have more fun on the Honda Rebel 250 around town running errands. You get over the "big bike" syndrome after a while. I spent 6000 out the door for them both but wish I had only bought the rebel which was 1500 bucks used with only 3500 miles on it.

Hypermiling has made me much safer rider/driver.

Also, its funny , my neighbor has this 40,000 dollar Harley that kills about as much gas as a car. He hates that my Kawasaki Vulcan looks just as cool and costs practically nothing to maintain compared to his huge Harley Dealer mainenance bills. His FE is lower than my hypermiled car.

If you get a bike don't get a huge engine. It's a complete waste. The biggest small engine would be a 250-600cc both will accelerate as fast as you would ever need. If you go bigger you get a big FE hit. the other poster was right about the 125cc Eliminator bike. Too small to benefit you.

My vulcan 500 for instance is way more than enough power, but I still prefer the 250 for FE and plain ease of putzing around fun.

I got a Rebel I can get about 85mpg out of if I hypermile it a little. Its a great bike for a commute. No high speed riding though. I drive it a 60mph with no problem maybe up to 70 sometimes. But now that I hypermile it I have no need to go past 50-55.

If you get a bike don't get a huge engine. It's a complete waste. The biggest small engine would be a 250-600cc both will accelerate as fast as you would ever need. If you go bigger you get a big FE hit. the other poster was right about the 125cc Eliminator bike. Too small to benefit you.

Not sure i agree with that. I've owned several bikes over the years. My last was a 01' Honda Sabre 1100cc it was geared lower and got around 48mpg. I drove it like i stole it though. So 50's would be easy. Both my parents drive Harleys. Fatboy and Roadking, they both get 55mpg.
I wouldn't go any smaller than a 500cc. I had a 250cc when i was 16 and it sounded like it was gonna fly apart at 60 mph.

Any Scooter in the 250cc class will do super! Fast enough to keep up with traffic, yet small enough to still get 70 mpg in town. The automatic transmission is so much more fun to drive in traffic! Motor on!! :)

Automatic transmissions don't allow as much control in your shift points though...

I have been wavering between a Honda Reflex and Honda Rebel 250 for this reason.

Any ideas about rolling resistance between the smaller, and therefore higher rpm, scooter tires (tyres) vs the Rebel's motorcycle rubber?

:)

For the type of riding you are describing, I wouldn't discount the 400 cc scooters. There are two which are great. The Yamaha Majesty 400 and the Burgman 400.

On my Majesty, I get in the lower to mid 60's around town and speeds up to 70 mph. Above that, the gas mileage starts to suffer a bit. It does make a big difference if I baby it while accelerating.

You may also find the Majesty more comfortable than a Rebel if you are a bit taller. Less if you are very short.

Be sure to take a safety course. Google the word "Abate" and the state you live in. Riding a motorcycle is not just riding a big bicycle.

"Automatic transmissions don't allow as much control in your shift points though"

The automatic tranmissions shift continuously for you. I have a Burgman 650 as well as a Yamaha Majesty. The Burgman allows you to manually shift. I've found I get a little worse gas mileage if I shift to keep the RPM lower than what it would be in the automatic. I'm thinking the normal mode is already optimized for the best gas mileage.

I've heard people who have the Reflex like them. The only problem is they really aren't capable of interstate speeds in the 75 mph states.

Those interested might go to Yahoo groups and search for a group on the type of scooter they are looking at. There is a lot of good info there. But keep in mind, most of the people there are newer riders, so they all complain about the wind.

I think another member here is reporting 90+MPG by hypermiling a Yamaha TW 200 dual purpose (http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/products/modelhome/10/0/home.aspx). The MSRP is $3,799

Hi All:

___I thought I had better bring this one back from the dead... I should have placed the link here last year when we posted the America’s 10 most fuel efficient bikes ( http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16425) article.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Smaller displacement is really the ticket for gas mileage on a motorcycle. Second most important factor is cD. I put 100,000 miles on motorcycles. Best mileage was a 50 cc. Honda that got 140 mpg. Next was a 90 cc. Suzuki two stroke that got me 90 mpg cruising, and 75 mpg WFO.