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Well I was going to wait until monday to do it, but I decided that I would see if I could knock it out today. I didn't want to feel rushed so I got a friend on call to come get me if I don't finish before I have to head out to a work party. I decided that I would try and get a head start last night by getting the box in the back opened up and get all the tubes in place and remove the interior parts that needed to be removed.... saving the wiring harness for today. Well I found out that I didn't have the needed Torx bit to take off the top to the rear box, so I've been delayed a couple hours until the parts store opens at 9am.

Pretty much everything I can do up until this point has been done. I wonder if I can finish this up by 3? ;)

wish me luck, although I'm not going to rush it.

Finish by three? I know i wouldn't. But that's probably because I am paranoid and triple-checked the connections. I also installed the FAS functionality.
If you are able to get all the connections you may not have time to button things up so they look pretty.

This is not a job you want to rush.

Good luck.

The joystick definitely will not be installed in its final form today. That will have to wait till tomorrow or later. I'm going to intergrate it into my armrest king armrest so it looks all fancy. I'll have to rig up some sort of mount for the second one either on the shift knob or somewhere else... havn't figured out yet. It might be wishful thinking, but it doesn't look like it will take too much time hooking up the harness and I figure thats the hardest part.

Hi Blake:

___When you are finished, start working on Mike to build a MIMA light (no assist and a FAS switch) for the HCH-I too.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Ok, MIMA harness in the back of the car is wired up and triple checked (twice by me and once by my neighbor.)

This this isn't nearly as hard as I thought it would be :D

Taking a water break and then back outside to enjoy the beautiful 68 degree weather and finish up the ECU wiring for the MIMA harness and FAS.

I'd kill for 68°. I was outside yesterday working on my grill block... 16°, and thankfully hardly any wind. Good luck and post pictures! :)

Ok, the harness is in. Whew... I will say this.. Stupid me made a small error and broke one of the retaining clips in one of the ECU plugs. :eek: Luckily for me I fixed the issue and hopefully everything will work out fine once I start the testing.

1:43... looks like I might make the 3pm deadline :D

I'd encourage you to be sure to insert the test plug before you power up the system.
It only takes a short time and will save you from letting out the magic smoke.

Ran out of time to fully set things up so the bypass plug is in atm. I'll finish up tomorrow and can't wait to see the difference it makes :D

The wiring is finished and everything is pretty much back together, I just havn't plugged anything into the board yet.

You had much better luck with this project than you did with the LED's. Best of luck with MIMI. H

Yes I did have much better luck with this project. The LED's are all working now though, I just had to get different tail lights.

I had a moment of panic (the broken clip) but after that issue was resolved, it was smooth sailing. I'll have everything hopefully finished up tomorrow by noon and I can start testing things out. Want to run my testing route with MIMA (my PR is 121.2 on the route and I wonder how much higher I can get it)

One odd thing though. I have no CEL's but the engine does sound different now while running. It could just be added noise because I havn't put the shifter console back on yet, but it just sounds... weird. Don't really know how to describe it. Mileage doesn't seem to be affected and no CEL's. I'm going to quadrouple check the connections tomorrow as I also forgot to put back one of the styrofoam pieces in the back compartment. I'm almost tempted to just leave it out since it really doesn't serve much of a purpose.

Blake,

I have felt your pain, but expect you will be very happy once the install is complete. :)

I certainly hope so :)

I've got my sights set and Randall and wayne are in them ;) :D I don't care what it takes... I'll have my 100 mpg tank average.


On a side note, my mini discrete display has a certain uniqueness to it. Mike wanted to try something new and installed Blue LED's in the place of the Red ones. I can't really tell what they look like since the display and board have yet to be powered up, but I imagine they will look amazing.

(actually its not unique since the last two MIMA kits have blue LEDs as well, at least I think thats the case)

I find myself getting antsy, I want tomorrow to hurry up and get here so I have some light to finish the install. Its going to be another beautiful day also with a daytime high of 74. I have a feeling my PR on my test route is going down. I don't want to cheat though and just max out the iFCD by draining the battery.... although that would make for a great picture :D

Hi Blake:

___Do not forget that Randall’s and my lmpg’s were achieved year round (Chicago fuel and temps in my case) and without P&G as it had not been figured out or done in any Insight I know about way back when ;) I am looking forward to your first 100 mpg tank though!

___Do however, take that assist away, P&G like a SOB and you will get there. A few 130 – 140 mpg tanks and you will look back and wonder what all the fuss was about :D

___Good Luck

___Wayne

I'm really looking forward to seeing what you'll be able to achieve with your new system, Blake! I'm with Wayne on this one -- turn off all assist and just flog that thing. I really want to see what an Insight is worth playing that game! It sure works for my Elantra, but I'm never going to get anywhere close to 100mpg in it. ;)

Hi Blake:

___When you are finished, start working on Mike to build a MIMA light (no assist and a FAS switch) for the HCH-I too.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Pretty trivial task for someone with the right tools and time to do it.

Read: Logic analyzer and a couple hours.

Oh, and an HCH-1 to play with.

Anyone in the Nashville area have one and want some experiments? :)

I can't wait to read your results & opinions. Keep us posted.

Well, I went out this morning to test the wiring and I do have an issue. I must have inadvertently installed one (possibly two) wires in the incorrect place or the main harness wires might have come loose from the MIMA wiring harness. Completely my fault. At least I know where they are at and it should be easily fixable as soon as I get the top off the box in the back.

I've got most of the bolts out and it should be a simple 10 minute check/double/triple check and put the cover back on after I'm sure the test is complete and to my satisfaction.

I'll be back in a few after I get a nice cold glass of water. It already heated up to close to 70 and sitting under that huge piece for rear glass isn't all that much fun :D

Alrighty....

After a short epiphany I realized that there was nothing wrong with the wiring... Only user error when using the volt meter. Sigh... Mike even told me over the phone how to check it not an hour ago... and I still did it wrong. After reading the sheet after I got everything dissymboled I realized the error... for the second time ;)

At least I had the top of the box off and I could put that piece of styrofoam back in and I found out that the rear box cover can be taken off without taking the beam that goes across the car. Everything is functional and I'm going to take it out for the first operational test.

Hows that for taking the rear box cover off, checking the wiring, taping everything back up and putting the cover back on in less than half an hour!

Thats the rally crew experience in me :D

Blake,
I did not realize that you were doing a blow by blow install thread, cool.

I wish that Wayne and the other P&G fans would stop telling people to not use assist.
Assist is there for a reason.
They have not used MIMA, and therefore are making some serious assumptions about how a skilled MIMA operator can use his newly available capabilities.

Randall , Nemystic, and most of the other MIMA hypermilers that drive with the flow of traffic have confirmed that timely application of assist, with careful charge replacement will always be better than trying to drive without any assist on the same road at the same speeds.

Yep, I figured I'd give the overall experience in installing MIMA to the people out there in internet land ;)

Seriously, I have very limited electronics experience, but signifigant mechanical experience... If I can install this thing the first time around with no major mistakes, anyone can. If I hadn't second guessed myself I would be out finishing up the install and working on making the joysticks look professionally installed.

I'm actually laughing at myself now that I've put everything back somewhat together as there really was no need for all that work. I just needed to learn how to use a volt meter :rolleyes:

Looks like I'll be doing some research on electrical components and designing them here soon. I tend to get board easily and I need something new to learn :D

Taking a short break to watch the news and drink some water... I'll head out around 1-1:30ish to finish up the testing and finalizing the install. I want to avoid traffic if at all possible.


As for driving style, every time I try P&G I end up losing mileage. I'm sure it has to do with experience with the technique, but I really think having control over IMA for the initial hill in my commutes (both ways infact) I'll be doing good. I've got plenty of oportunity to recharge the pack on the flat sections and downhills.

I'm really looking forward to the first actual driving test.

Hi Mike:

___We know how to achieve 150 + and it is not by using assist. Once on the bottom, you get a forced charge and it would be best to avoid at all costs. Randall and I know how this is done and assist gets in the way.

___For steady state, do we really have to go over the results again ;)

___Come up with a way to pull assist off in an HCH-I and I would consider adding one to the fleet :)

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Wayne,
We have been over this many times, and are unlikely to resolve it in a forum.
It all gets down to comparing apples and apples. Try to go with the flow on New England roads, without assist, and I will guarantee that a skilled MIMA driver will beat you every time.

You tend to leave out the going with the flow aspect of safe driving.

Its fine driving slow when on the road alone.
Sure you can get 150 MPG when you drive at bycycle speeds or even get out and push like some guys did at the Hybridfest MPG challange. No need for assist there.

Try it at 55-65 MPH on the highway, and now we are talking about apples and oranges, and cannot fairly compare the two.

On a side note, I'd say the hardest... well not really hardest, just most annoying part of the install was on the ECU side. Its a pretty awkward area to work in and putting the FAS module the pins were very close together and trying to get them all in without straining any wires took the "longest" amount of my time.

___Come up with a way to pull assist off in an HCH-I and I would consider adding one to the fleet :)

As I mentioned earlier, it really is a simple task for someone with access to the car...

Shifty35,
I believe that you will find that the HCH uses a completely different system of control between the ECM and the MCM. The control is serial, not PWM based.
If you can sort out which serial command(s) do the actual regen and assist control, then you need to simulate them, intercept and block only the related stock commands, add the simulated serial commands, with proper CAN protocol and check sums, in a way that will not set any IMA codes. Not a simple task.
Good luck though, as many HCH owners would like that feature.
It is possible that the Scanguage people could incorporate it into their device, since they have already cracked the CAN bus communication?
Blake, Sorry to have hijacked your thread.

No no, Mike, its ok :)

I'm just glad there is a place where people can talk about MIMA without threads being locked or deleted.

ITS ALIVE! :D

Just got the MIMA disconnect switch installed and everything is hooked up. Getting ready to go out for the first drive with MIMA. I'll report back in a few minutes with my initial impression.

Good news! I'm eager to hear your results. :D

Don't forget to try P&G without any assist... ;)

I'm willing to try anything at least once or twice... well almost anything ;)

I'm sure I'll have many days of playing around with it before I find what works best for me, but I'm almost positive on the drive to work, using MIMA to give more assist when the engine is cold up that first giant hill will net me at lest 15 more MPG's going to work. I've got 3 miles to recoup that battery drain.

Well just got to my parents house, which is what I usually judge mileage on since its decently long (11 miles) and relatively flat.

Pulled up into the drive way and of course the iFCD was pegged at 150 :D ;) :Banane44:

Had to switch over to metric to get a consumption rate.. 1.4L/KM

Or... 168 mpg. :Banane10:

Of course I totally cheated by using MIMA and now I have ~1/2 of a battery charge left when I'm normally full, but I wanted to see that iFCE pegged at least once.

I think I've still got some issues with my wiring harness that were not detected in the MIMA testing (Since its not directly MIMA related). The weird sound is still there and I can't get the FAS working, which tells me there's something wrong with what I did on the ECU side. Looks like I'll be working on that Wednesday.

All in all, I'm pretty impressed with the control of the system. Pulling up to lights that were red I could make the car regen MUCH more than it normally does. Wow, this thing stops quick in full regen mode.

Blake,

The factory IMA is usually used to smooth out the little 3-cyl - maybe it's not doing this correctly anymore and that makes it sound funny?

My $.02.

Oh, and to respond to Mike's comment...

Not having ever looked at or played with a HCH, I'd imagine all you have to do is hijack the packets going to the MCM and modify data values. If it is a CANbus connection, you would just look for packets addressed to the MCM and modify the values. I'm not trying to trivialize the problem, but for someone with the know-how, I'm sure it CAN be done without a whole lot of effort.

That being said, if someone does take some time to unlock the code, I'd bet the current MIMA hardware would work fine, it would just be a software adjustment.

I may buy an HCH in the next year or so for my wife, and I'd be glad to head up that project... time to put my EE degree to work.

Blake,

Although I do not have an insight, don't have any experience with MIMA, and am jealous of Insight mileage, let me just say that I'm immensely enjoying this thread. :)

Congratulations! HybridFest MPG Challenge is a calling......... :)

I'm sure you will find the bugs! Have fun, H

Hahaha, Well I can chalk up the "Bugs" to user error... again :o

Turns out I forgot to connect one of the ribbon cables that is used to control the FAS and the secondary fan activation switches.


After a nice conversation with Mike and him trying to help me find the issue he asked me to make sure I had connected the cable. DOH! I disconnected everything when I ran into "issues" the first time and I forgot to reconnect it.

I also had a question about the blinking light in mode 1 and was wondering if I had done something wrong.. turns out mike programmed it that way so you couldn't input regen at idle and
So far the only problems I've run into with the install have been on my end (electronics newbie ;) )


I'd like to take this time to point out something very important. Mike has been great! He has answered his phone on the several times I've called with questions and has stopped what he was doing to help me out. If anything I'd say his customer service is the best I've ever seen. If any of you have any plans or desires to install MIMA, you definitely will not be disappointed with the help you will get from him.

Thanks for that Blake,
I ran a TV repair business for 10 years, and did field service for an international company for 10 more, then I was the technical director for a small medical equipment company for 4 more. Customer service is the key to a successful business, and has always been one of my pet peeves with many of the companies of today. As the many other people that have called me will attest. I am always ready to discuss and help with anything that I can.

I suspect that you will continue to tweak your driving technique for months like the other guys. Give it a few weeks, trying out all of the techniques, including the no assist/regen one suggested by Wayne and others, and lets see what you find.

Another Insight owner with the MIMA grin:D life is good

As much as I don't want to fall into the video game part of this... I AM very competitive. I always have been and most likely always will be. I never stop something until I've mastered it, and this will be no different. MIMA is just another tool in my tool box (albet a VERY useful one ;) ) that will get me my goal. With my extremely short commutes, I need everything I can get to max out my FE... I just refuse to drive 20 mph on a 45 mph road to achive those goals.


I'm about to head back out and go home... The looming recharge is going to be intresting. I wonder how bad a hit I will take or if I can use MIMA to recharge when its most benificial to me ;)

Blake - thanks for the thread! - I may be the last one to install this batch of Mima's (#58k)in my 00 cy Insight. Just waiting for two days on a weekend above freeeezing!

Snow tires are on and the mpg drop has not been too bad. You and I are close in avg mpg - so it will be interesting to see the graph climb for both of us in the months ahead.

On my daily commute I FAS on one hill for over 4 miles. I keep thinking I may be using FAS less and getting the juice box refilled more often once I'm done with the mimafication.

So having said all this - if anyone wants to lend a hand or observe the install, I can wait., let me know... I'd like to be done by the end of the year. Remember - this isn't Florida ;)

I also want to second what a great guy Mike is. He spent a lot of time with me on the phone before I bought the whole shabang and turned my finished board around in one day. Now it's up to me to get away from the rest of the stuff and get into the Key Lime Pi. Mike - I'm sure we'll be yappin again

One question though - Just got notice for a recall on the ecm - freebee replacement - no engine check light, but I'm thinking that I may do that 1st. I'll try to persuade the Honda dealer to let me keep the original. Would the rest of you go the same route? Looks like a driver on IC took the car in with Mima and Honda still did the replacement with no questions asked, but was fascinated....


Wayne

Installing the tubes took all of 3 minutes total for both. They just easily slid in. Once I figured out the unlocking technique on the first pin... the rest came out super easy. The hardest part of the install was the ECU connections for the FAS and MIMA harness. The pins are all so close together that I was struggling to get the pins out without stressing the other wires. Take the time to fully pull the black wrapping back away from the wires and try to spread the wires out decently well BEFORE you start trying to get them out. Trust me it will make it MUCH easier!

thanks Blake - That would be the reason I bought the BIG flexible clip-on magnifier at the local crafts store :Banane49:

maybe some snow boards to strap on the back when a lake effect snow storm hits...

Almost finished... Just a little cleanup work to make it look nice. Either need some black RTV silcone to cover the hot glue, or I'll just paint it flat black.... but heres the pictures of my Joystick mounts...




Shifter Mount
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/578/PICT0880.JPGhttp://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/578/PICT0877.JPG




Armrest Mount
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/578/PICT0881.JPGhttp://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/578/PICT0878.JPG



EDIT: Looking at the pictures the mounts look awful :( They really don't look that bad IRL. The flash I guess puts too much attention to the glue. I'll fix it tomorrow ;)

Finally got around to finishing the setup of MIMA today. I still need to make adjustments to the Mag factor but my initial impression is...

WOW!

This is an amazing mode. This is exactly what I wanted... wait, even more than I wanted. Just using this mode I was able to pay more attention to the road and I was able to achive better results on the highway to my house in the crappy weather we're having right now AT THE SPEED LIMIT than I was getting during ideal summer temps traveling 5 to 10 under. Yep, you heard me right.

This is the one thing I'm liking most about MIMA. I can drive the speed limit and get the same if not better results than before. Taking that into account, I'm not sure how well I can do with it by slowing down to 5-10 under. I want to give it a full tank to see what it will do since I installed MIMA halfway through this tank and that plus the fact that i've had to disconnect my 12 volt several times because of various issues.


If you have MIMA and haven't played with PIMA yet, you really should do so. If you don't have MIMA yet and you have an Insight, email or call Mike to get your name on the waiting list. Seriously, its that good.

(sorry for putting extra work on your table Mike, but this thing is too good to let die!)



Some minor oddities and improvements I can see. The Mag factor and set points seem to vary based on the gear I'm in. Makes sense since gearing and TPS will changed depending on the gear your in, so PIMA only works great for the gear you set it up in (Which will most likely be 5th). It still works in the other gears, just some minor quirks (like regen coming on way too strong in 2nd gear while in stop and go traffic... most likely will be resolved when I change the Mag factor) I could always switch over to Mode 1 if it gets too annoying.

I'd also like the option of setting the assist and regen mag factor separate. Not sure if thats easily changeable in the code, but it would be nice.


On a side note, the funky sound I was hearing has disappered after I put the shifter console back on. Guess thats what it was.... letting more sound in that I was used too.



Once again, thank you Mike for making such an awesome product. I'm so glad I got in on one of these systems. After driving with one I don't know if I could go back to driving without it.

Glad you like it Blake.
The ABC, Joylock, and PIMA all use the MAP signal to control assist and regen. The TPS input is not used, but could be in future software.
The MAP is reflecting engine load, which will change based on RPM, thus the downward shift in the PIMA activation points on the MPG scale, as you drop to a lower gear/higher RPM.
In 1st and second, PIMA can be delicate to operate, since the MAP swings widely with any small accelerator motions.
I will only use PIMA in 4th and 5th.


The first code had a mag factor that set both assist and regen slope, but anything more than 1:1 regened too aggressively, so I locked it at MAG 1.

The simple way to change the regen activity in PIMA is to set the activation point way up in the 100MPG + end of the scale. Then the MAP signal at max will not make it to max regen. Want less regen at max MPG, just jog the regen activation point closer to the top of the MPG scale.
Keep your MIMA Grin:D going, and happy holidays.

So are both joysticks required for operating the system, or did you just add a second 1 for easy of use, based on arm location?

You only need one joystick to operate MIMA. The second joystick is an option so, like you said, can be placed for another place of operation based off of arm placement. Its nice to have it on my armrest so when I'm cruising along in 5th I don't have to reach up to the shift knob to make adjustments.

Plus resting your hand on a shifter *can* prematurely wear out sycro's in a transmission, but I doubt this is a concern for an Insight.

Was not aware of the syncro thing. Thanks for the info.

Finally - some nice weather and my Mima #058 and FAS are in!

To echo what Blake said months ago. WOW!!! The car now does what I want it to, not what it "thinks" it should be doing. Worth the effort and worth the very reasonable cost for this incredible benefit.

If you've been considering getting on Mike's wait list for a MIMA system or FAS module for your Insight my advice would be DO IT! and if your in the NE Ohio area and wish to see one in person, that can be arranged as well. It's always great to meet new Insight owners.

I have nearly a year of mpg data for my Insight logged here on cleanmpg. Just filled up tonight after a few short test rides the past two days. More to come as I use the modification. Kind of neat to have this finally active on Earth Day..

Cheers
Wayne