Archives

New Fiat 500.

Has 3 engine choices. A wealth of standard features. Cute as hell! Car is done very well!!! It follows the retro theme very well for the classic 500. No goofy speed-o pod done up in the middle of the dash. They even got the classic Fiat emblem done right on the front of the car. With a mature 70's emblem on the steering wheel. I bet this car blows Yaris away in the UK.

I wish I could buy one.

Check it out!
http://www.worldcarfans.com/2070705.002/new-fiat-500-in-depth

Very nice! I happen to like small, quirky looking cars myself. My dream is one that will get 60mpg combined with an average driver -- so I could push 90mpg from it. ;)

Me too, if I can have the diesel engine!!

I was in Italy two weeks ago and saw both the old 500 (yes they're STILL running around!) and the new one. Like the Mini, the reborn 500 is quite a bit larger than the original (but still petite by today's standards). I agree the interior of the new Mini is quirky but the new 500's interior is very intelligently done: tasteful retro.

Stopped in at a Fiat dealership for a closer look. They have a clever handout with an image of the car on a card and all the different striping options printed on a circular transparent overlay which you can spin to see what the car will look like with the different stripes.

One thing I don't get is the smaller gas engine. The diesel gets better economy and more hp, so why does Fiat bother with the 1.2L gas engine at all? Or why not offer an even smaller gas engine if it would give better economy than the diesel? Maybe there is some tax break for owners based on engine displacement which would make the 1.2 attractive, and Fiat figures a smaller engine would not be acceptable?

Judgine from the generally spirited driving I saw in Turin, driving for FE doesn't seem to be on the radar screen for most Italians!

This brings back memories! Back in high school, my first car was a 1961 Fiat 600 which my aunt brought back from Italy. Then in '64, she goes back and comes home with a 1964 model 600. I got the '61 Fiat for the sum of one dollar, much to the chagrin of my parents. Had a lot of fun driving that car, until the rusting bottom gave out while I was carrying a passenger in the front seat : my grandmother! The metal chair rail was making gut wrenching sounds as it scraped the pavement, and sparks were flying everywhere. From there is wasn't long before the car got junked. I loved it though : Better than a VW beetle in the snow. Just thought I'd share that. Thanks!

My local dealer (http://www.tonkinfiatusaofportland.com/index.htm) has a whole bunch of them on the lot now.

Hmm. I wanted to take a look at these in person, but there's no local dealers in the Pittsburgh area.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/business/s_729308.html

Dan, Ron Tonkin Acura is where I got my Insight.

I need a Fiat 500 as well. What an awesome car...

Dan, Ron Tonkin Acura is where I got my Insight.How'd that happen? Did you drive it back, or have it shipped?

The original owner was in Idaho. When it was sold it got shipped up to Portland and posted on the Internet. I called them a few hours after it appeared (I'd been following up on Insight ads daily for 1.5mo at that point). 40min later I made an offer. Since it was January and a somewhat unknown quantity, I wasn't sure I wanted to attempt the Rockies with snow and ice so I had it trucked in to MN on a car carrier already scheduled to bring other cars to the area.

I took a gamble on a sight unseen (aside from pictures on the net) but I think it turned out pretty well. ;)

New Fiat 500.

Has 3 engine choices. A wealth of standard features. Cute as hell! Car is done very well!!! It follows the retro theme very well for the classic 500. No goofy speed-o pod done up in the middle of the dash. They even got the classic Fiat emblem done right on the front of the car. With a mature 70's emblem on the steering wheel. I bet this car blows Yaris away in the UK.

I wish I could buy one.

Check it out!
Yoda88 placed spam here - link redirected (http://cleanmpg.com/) http://www.worldcarfans.com/2070705.002/new-fiat-500-in-depth

:Banane27:
Awesome, great post! I like how they put the classic emblem on the front .

I think I must have exaggerated back in April, because after I posted that I didn't see more than one or two on the lot at a time until recently. They do have more of them now though, and I spotted my first one on the street a couple days ago.

Only a limited run was produced for sale (500) for the first model year. This car is insanity with twin-air..

I saw one yesterday in an unflattering military green color.

My next door neighbor just came home with a new Fiat 500 over the weekend. Bright blue, manual transmission, same as the Chevy HHR he traded in for it.

Only a limited run was produced for sale (500) for the first model year. This car is insanity with twin-air..How can they only have built 500 of these this year? I've seen a few of them on the road already this month. Unless they're only selling them in a handful of cities, they have to have built more of them than that.

My next door neighbor just came home with a new Fiat 500 over the weekend. Bright blue, manual transmission, same as the Chevy HHR he traded in for it.

How can they only have built 500 of these this year? I've seen a few of them on the road already this month. Unless they're only selling them in a handful of cities, they have to have built more of them than that.

He means they did a special run of 500 that were 2011 and then there was a gap before they started selling 2012s.

Sadly they don't have the TwinAir, just the MultiAir, you know, because Americans don't like small engines, even those buying Fiat 500s. :rolleyes:

He means they did a special run of 500 that were 2011 and then there was a gap before they started selling 2012s.

Sadly they don't have the TwinAir, just the MultiAir, you know, because Americans don't like small engines, even those buying Fiat 500s. :rolleyes:

Would have been nice...I'm sure they didn't gear it properly either. That aside, however, owners are reporting getting high 30's in the city and 43-45 hwy. These are non hypermilers.

even though they aren't real fuel misers..... i would soooo love to have the Abarth SS (?). saw it on Top Gear and the wife and I both said "I want one!!!!" they look sweeet and go like a scalded cat.

Get one and get SCLDCAT as your license plate?

Hi All:

While fun for the short run, they are imho, very "faddish" vehicles. My right knee up against the hard center console was killing me after just 3-miles and although there are some in the Chicago Press Fleet, I do not want to embarrass Fiat with a poor ergonomic review.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/Fiat_500_Seating_Arrangement.jpg

Chris and the Fiat 500… Yes, he is a “Big” guy but if you are 6’ or taller, the rear seat is nothing more than a place to put a backpack or a small amount of groceries. There simply is NO back seat room!

Wayne

Finally saw a Fiat 500 in the wild. It was parked in Camden ME yesterday. I don't remember the plate so I can't say if it was a PFA or not.

Ever on the lookout for cars my wife might want in the future, and knowing she finds the Smart "cute" I asked her what she thought of the 500. "It's ugly," was the response. That's OK, it's not very efficient.

Hi Colin:

It sounds like the Bulldog faced iQ might be in your future?

Wayne

Hi Colin:

It sounds like the Bulldog faced iQ might be in your future?

Wayne

Although it's not going to be for a good few years yet (barring some revolutionary technology that causes EV prices to drop like a lead balloon) the next car purchase will be my wife's choice.

As much as she'd like a small car she wouldn't feel safe in winter driving and given that she's a schoolteacher she's more of a fall-to-spring driver. She likes the Civic she drives but I think she'd like more comfort and right now I'd say the efficient v comfortable and safe compromise would be something like an FFH. Maybe she could get a small car if I'd be happy driving it in winter.

I was behind one in the District today. Convertible.
I was more enamored of the Focus 5-door I saw a few miles later.
I believe the color was "Frosted Glass". I'm glad to see more color in car choices, rather than the same dull palatte of grays and silvers. Also saw one in "Race Red". Yummy for both.

I owned a spider and a sedan back in the early 70. Surprised it has not come up yet but what a rust bucket. Many other design issues as I recall like a 180mile range. I'll be interested to see how they hold up

Not to burst your bubble, but just wait till the current N/A for reliability is figured out Ohh boy
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/Fiat_500/

I'd love to see a Consumer reports review this car:flag::D:o I'd bet the N/A it like the Yaris

Far to many other better options, unless you make that fatal mistake and just fall in love with the based on looks;)

They compared it to the mazda2...they aren't competing cars. I could see myself driving this, but not a mazda2, sorry.

Interesting. The manual-transmission 500 does beat all of the competitors mentioned in the article for straight-up EPA-rated MPG, except for the Fiesta with the SFE package. Which is only available with an automatic transmission, if I read the Ford website correctly.

Granted, it's only 1 or 2 MPG in city or highway (or both), but it is higher.

-soD

You would hope the rust issues have solved, its only been a few decades.

You would hope the rust issues have solved, its only been a few decades.

...I believe Hyundai started in the US market WELL after Fiat left. 1993 I believe was the year.

Hyundai started off extremely shaky, so we can see that vehicles 30 years ago don't really determine what the vehicles are today. Pinto anyone? Less than 20 years in Hyundai's case, and less than 10 if we really get into the details of when quality really began to change.

Lastly, Sergio was not the CEO of Fiat back then. Don't forget that management is what really decides a product. The engineers may be the same, but hardly ever have their way with a vehicle. I'm sure you know that finance managers have to find a way to make themselves feel/seem useful. Personally I just think they get in the way. Dump their ideas and take their pay. Costs cut, Product optimized.

but what about the awesome Pacer....? now THAT was a coola$$ ride. they need to soooo bring that back.









j/k.

but what about the awesome Pacer....? now THAT was a coola$$ ride. they need to soooo bring that back.

j/k.

All kidding aside, here is the mockup for the Pacer Concept II from 1977. Had the Pacer survived, it would have been downsized to almost subcompact, and would have looked much like the Dodge Colt that arrived a few years later. The front end resembles the '79 Chevette.
Typical of '70s AMC styling concept mockups, this is obviously a fiberglass shell with no steering wheel or interior.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/658/PacerConceptII.jpg

At the time, AMC was buying 2.0L engines from VW for their Gremlin, so I have to think they would have also purchased transaxles from them as well?

If they can bring back the Fiat 500 and sell them in quantity, who knows what they will think of next?

I test-drove a 500 today, then went and drove a MINI.

The MINI is the better car. Everything from the feel of solidity, to the seating position, to the driving dynamics was better. The interior materials were better. The 500 felt much heavier while driving, even though the MINI is 200-ish pounds heavier. (2300 vs. 2500)

I did drive the turbocharged Cooper S, not the "regular" MINI Cooper. So the difference in power was even greater. (I had spousal pressure to drive the S, not the plain Cooper.) The 500 that we drove was the "Sport" version, which has the same engine and 5-speed as the other versions of the 500. (Except the "Lounge" version, which is only available with an automatic.)

The 500 needed to be dropped 2 gears (from 5th to 3rd) to feel any noticeable acceleration at 55 or 60 MPH. The Cooper S would pull in 6th. I think the regular Cooper would as well. The 500 and the Cooper were both turning about 2500 RPM in top gear at 60 MPH. Not great, but not awful.

In the 500, it felt like I was sitting up higher, on top of the seat. The Cooper had supportive seats that I sat down in. It also had a little more headroom, which is important to me.

The 500 did not handle as well or feel as secure going around corners. I suspect that a sway-bar upgrade and/or some better springs would help a lot here, as it felt pretty tippy. It did, however, have a very small turning circle and was pretty willing to change directions.
The brakes in both were quite competent. I never got into the ABS on either, so I do not know the limits in either case.

The turning circle and the overall size of the Fiat mean that it would be much easier to find a parking space for it in a crowded city environment. (I've found my CRX very handy under similar circumstances.)

From my reading on-line, the 500 actually has more cargo room than the Cooper when the rear seats are folded down, which they do in both cars. The rear seat in each was quite tight, but in each case our salesman did fit in the back.

The Fiat's base price is 3/4 of that of the base MINI Cooper, $15K versus $20K. MINI has done the typical German automaker's trick of giving you sixty-five zillion options, allowing you lots of personalization potential and the potential to bump the price up well over the base. There are fewer options with the Fiat, but there are still a decent number of ways to personalize the car. It would be much harder to run the price of the basic "Pop" model to astronomical levels.

The 500 is very cute. It is a modern car with lots of safety features. It is several orders of magnitude less common than the MINI at this point, so you're unlikely to meet an identical one coming the other way. (Which, oddly, I am finding does matter somewhat to me!)

The 500 is also rated at 38 MPG on the highway by the EPA. The MINI Cooper is rated at 37 MPG. I couldn't really get a feel for how easy or difficult it would be to beat those figures; I do not have a ScanGauge or UltraGauge to plug in. I suspect that it might be harder in the 500, just because it seemed to need to be driven harder than the Cooper did.

I think the MINI is the better car, but the 500 is also a reasonably good one.

-soD

I have to admit I like these cars. They look neat, have great MPG potential, and, like soD said, it's nice to be in something you don't see everywhere. Unfortunately, it's not terribly practical now that we have a family :(

...I believe Hyundai started in the US market WELL after Fiat left. 1993 I believe was the year.

Hyundai started off extremely shaky, so we can see that vehicles 30 years ago don't really determine what the vehicles are today. ...

For what it's worth Hyundai started in the US in 86, Fiat left in 83 (I think). They started out with the Excel which was like a Yugo, but not quite as bad. I would say it took about 10 years for Hyundai to get their quality turned around. It is only recently that their reputation has improved to "average" although their cars may be better than that.

It will be interesting to see what reputation Fiat builds this time around.

For what it's worth Hyundai started in the US in 86, Fiat left in 83 (I think). They started out with the Excel which was like a Yugo, but not quite as bad. I would say it took about 10 years for Hyundai to get their quality turned around. It is only recently that their reputation has improved to "average" although their cars may be better than that.

It will be interesting to see what reputation Fiat builds this time around.

:o. Kia debuted in '93. My mistake.

Fiat left in '84.

Cars are much different than they were. Hyundai was able to start shaky and make quality cars in ten years. I'm sure 27 years changes a lot in the auto industry.

The interior materials were better. The 500 felt much heavier while driving, even though the MINI is 200-ish pounds heavier. (2300 vs. 2500)...

...I did drive the turbocharged Cooper S, not the "regular" MINI Cooper.

The fiat abarth has 70% more hp than the regular fiat. I don't think comparing a supercharged mini cooper to a regular 500 is a fair comparison in the least.

Plenty of changes go into a model when the engines are upgraded including suspension and damping. Your comparison was apples to oranges.

I love the looks and size of the 500 , and I imagine someone could extract semi-decent mpgs from it. But......... many geezers like myself can remember when Fiat quality was rather questionable. My 1975 128SL was great when it ran. Not so great when you're changing the starter in the driveway in 10 deg F weather six months after the warranty expired. Awesome steering and brakes. Fuel economy was better than any car I'd owned before ( but it did turn 4000 rpm at 57 mph in top gear).
I'm hoping to drive a 500 soon.

The fiat abarth has 70% more hp than the regular fiat. I don't think comparing a supercharged mini cooper to a regular 500 is a fair comparison in the least.

Plenty of changes go into a model when the engines are upgraded including suspension and damping. Your comparison was apples to oranges.

I quite agree, which is why I specifically stated that I drove the turbocharged Cooper S. (The 1st-gen S was supercharged, the current one is turbocharged.) I do plan to drive the non-S as soon as I can make time to do so in a non-commute hour.

If the Abarth were available in the US, I am pretty sure my wife would have insisted that be the 500 that I drove.

I do think that the overall feel of the regular Cooper will be almost identical to that of the S; the solidity and lighter feel, the seating position, the positioning of the pedals (good for heel-and-toe in the MINI, not so much in the FIAT). The MINI just seems to "feel" higher quality in pretty much every way I can think of.

-soD

Not trying to defend one or the other, but the amount of perceived power and suspension changes are what makes a car feel lighter or heavier. Those are both changes that accompany a 70% hp increase.

I'm interested to see how the ride goes with the regular cooper. Thanks for sharing however.

The ride with the regular Cooper was very similar to the S. Surprisingly so, in fact. The car still felt more solid, but lighter than the 500. The power was obviously not as great as the S, but it had enough torque to pull slightly in top gear (6th) at 60 MPH, which was 2400 RPM like in the S. (Funny, my calculations showed it should have been lower RPM. My calcs must have been off.) The seating was the same as the S, as were the controls.

The handling seemed a little less responsive, but the driving route was different. (Just got into the leading edge of "rush hours".) The responses still seemed better than those of the 500.

To me, at least, the MINI Cooper seems to be the superior car. The main question to my mind is: Does the difference add up to a $5000 higher price tag? Quite frankly, my feeling is that at this moment, to me, that answer is "yes".

-soD