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36 million drivers would flunk drivers tests (http://edition.cnn.com/2007/LIVING/wayoflife/11/16/driving.stupid/)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/8_Lane_Traffic_Jam.jpgCNN – Nov. 16, 2007

Suprized?

Is it just your imagination, or do many of your fellow motorists lack even a rudimentary grasp of traffic laws?

Well, if a test administered by GMAC Insurance is any indication, one in six people cruising our highways and byways -- roughly 36 million licensed drivers -- would flunk their driver's test if they had to take it today. Not only that, but based on the 2007 GMAC Insurance National Drivers Test data the state with the most road-going dummies is New York, while the most knowledgeable ones are out West to Idaho.

"The results were pretty eye-opening to us," says Gary Kusumi, president and CEO of GMAC Insurance Personal Lines. "Not only did they indicate that there are wide differences in terms of state scores, but there were significant trends that demonstrated the general public might have forgotten must-know items from when they first took their driver's test."

"Two questions consistently sent respondents skidding into the weeds," Kusumi notes. The first has to do with the correct action to take when approaching a steady yellow traffic light (Answer: Stop if it is safe to do so.). A whopping 84 percent of respondents spun their wheels on that one. The next biggest puzzler after that question had to do with the proper following distance from a car in front of you (Answer: Two seconds)…http://edition.cnn.com/2007/LIVING/wayoflife/11/16/driving.stupid/

Re-test!! Re-test!!

Based upon what I see every day, even from the sidewalk, this estimation does not surprise me in the least. Hypermiling would be so much easier if people would follow the laws.

It's hard to say, but definitely think it's higher than what GMAC says...the bad drivers stick out for sure.

I'm surprised the number is that low. Then again, how tough is it to pass a drivers test? I had to make a couple turns and use signals, stop at a couple of stop signs, negotiate a desolate round-about, and make 3-point turn in the middle of a shipping lane without hitting a building. (And there were many, many dents in that building.) Then I had to drive the 1.5mi back to the DMV remember to turn the engine off and take the key with me. The administrator might as well have taken my pulse to make sure I could breathe and pump blood at the same time, as it would have saved us both about 10 minutes that day.

based on what i see on a daily basis, it would be hard to differentiate between those that don't know and those that don't care........seems like the basic rules of road layout have gone by the wayside. this morning i was in one of the rare areas i travel that have housing along it, there was a curve to a stop sign about 1/4 mile ahead, where the road comes together with traffic coming from 4 other roads. very complicated, very dangerous. someone passed me at high speed on a double yellow line, and then barely slowed for the sign as he turned left. he must have just missed the car i saw coming from the direction he turned about 2 second later.

ok.....do they not know? do they not care? do they think they are invincible? it's a hard call, but the stats that 36 million of them out there travel like this on a daily basis makes a good argument for more rigorous and frequent testing.

Each State has their own driver's license and test. Is there even a list of "National" traffic laws that apply everywhere? I'd like to see a National Drivers License, which to get you would have to pass the same written test that everyone else in the country does.

When I was studying for my license in New Jersey back in the 70s, a flashing yellow light meant "proceed with caution". There was no mention of a steady yellow light, and I'm not sure I've ever seen one. If I did see one I'd assume the signal was defective, and proceed with great caution and stop if necessary.

There are an amazing amount of ambiguous signs, lights, stripes, arrows, and other traffic related proceedures out there. Every licensed driver should be send (or visit online) an updated drivers manual at least every two years and have to re-pass the written test. Under this system, people could also send in questions to get clarification or make suggestions.

For example, near my home there is an off ramp from the Interstate to a four lane arterial road. At the bottom of the ramp is a traffic light. There are three lanes. The left and center lanes can turn left. There is a standard set of round lights to control the traffic turning left. You cannot go straight. The center and right lanes can turn right. There is a traffic light with a sign that says "right turn signal" to control right turns. The green is in the shape of an arrow, the yellow and red are round. Question is, can you make a right turn on red at this intersection with a dedicated right turn signal? I see many people waiting for the signal to change before turning right here, even when there is no traffic coming. I always come to a stop if it's red, and then turn right on red same as if it was a standard traffic light. Am I breaking the traffic laws?:confused:

Yes, this is a test.

It amazes me how many people around here don't understand the idea of a merging lane. They stop and backup traffic until no cars are coming then make the left turn into the merging lane.

For example, near my home there is an off ramp from the Interstate to a four lane arterial road. At the bottom of the ramp is a traffic light. There are three lanes. The left and center lanes can turn left. There is a standard set of round lights to control the traffic turning left. You cannot go straight. The center and right lanes can turn right. There is a traffic light with a sign that says "right turn signal" to control right turns. The green is in the shape of an arrow, the yellow and red are round. Question is, can you make a right turn on red at this intersection with a dedicated right turn signal? I see many people waiting for the signal to change before turning right here, even when there is no traffic coming. I always come to a stop if it's red, and then turn right on red same as if it was a standard traffic light. Am I breaking the traffic laws?:confused:

Yes, this is a test.

Your right turn is legal unless there is a no turn on red sign or an arrow shaped red light.

It amazes me how many people around here don't understand the idea of a merging lane. They stop and backup traffic until no cars are coming then make the left turn into the merging lane.

We have huge yellow signs that say KEEP MOVING. They aren't too effective.

Local favorites: police who don't know enough to put their headlights on when it's getting dark, or raining (State law says lights on in rain), people who never signal a turn, people who don't know enough to turn into the nearest appropriate lane, and of course tailgaters.

In rural areas, which should have fewer accidents, people seem to dumb down their driving to keep the body shops humming.

Harry

Lurch, I know that's legal here in Oregon and many other states, but may not be the case in all states. There is a LOT of variation from one state to another when it comes to the finer points of traffic law.

Continuing the discussion of turning on red: Always illegal in North Dakota and New York City -- not even right turns are allowed. How 'bout left from a one way to a one way: legal in every state I've ever lived in (though Minneapolis has banned it at so many individual intersections it's practically illegal there). I'm sure there are places besides ND and NYC that ban that one.

Here in Oregon we take it a step further than I've seen anywhere else: You can turn left on red from a two way street onto a one way street. When I have company from out of town, I like scaring them by pulling this move. "Hey! You can't do that!" Oh, yes I can. :D And it actually makes sense: since opposing traffic has a red light too, you're not actually creating an unreasonable conflict situation by allowing it.

Other examples: Washington state used to -- and may still -- permit exceeding the speed limit while passing. Other states I know of (including OR, MN and WI) certainly do not.

Some states (including Oregon) permit using the center two-way turn lane on boulevards to enter the roadway as well as exit it, something people routinely do here and which I consider insane. Not 100% positive, but when I was growing up in MN I'm pretty sure we were taught to use that lane only for making left turns OFF the roadway.

Lest you think Oregon is a legal free-for-all, bear in mind we're not allowed to coast. And we have the lowest speed limits I know of (something I used to despise and have now grown to love): 65 mph rural freeways (all other western states are 70 or 75), 55 mph on all highways (neighboring NV is 75 mph), 25 mph on residental streets (not unusual), and 20 mph in business districts (other states I've lived in are 30 mph). That last one is wonderful for pedestrians: now if only we could get residential streets knocked down to 20mph to match!

Back to the OP, I too am surprised the figure is so low (and I'm stunned that Oregon -- which has never required drivers ed) came in at #9. I'd guess that 1/3 to 1/2 of the drivers I see would fail to score 70% on a drivers test if they had to do it without studying up first. I was witness once to an collision in which a vehicle with a YIELD sign failed to yield to a vehicle coming the other way. When I talked to the driver at fault and suggested that she should have stopped, she -- in all seriousness -- said, "the sign only said yield, not stop".:eek:

Your right turn is legal unless there is a no turn on red sign or an arrow shaped red light.

Ding ding ding! You are correct sir. That is what I finally discovered, after much research. Round red light, you can turn right on red. Arrow,shaped red light, no turn on red.

I'm probably the only one who didn't know that. :rolleyes:

There is a LOT of variation from one state to another when it comes to the finer points of traffic law.

And I'm sure all of us review the traffic laws of all the states we're going to pass through or visit before we travel. :rolleyes:
That's why we need a national system.
The states can still collect the money. The rules just need to be standarized.

along this vein......are road markings the same from state to state? i am in minnesota, and i know that when the center line is dashed, passing is allowed. if there is a solid stripe on one side, people can't pass on the side with the solid. double yellow stripe means (or USED to mean) nobody can pass. i see that one ignored regularly........

I had a real surprise the other day.

I was at a stop sign on a two lane road, to turn left onto a larger two lane road. A pickup approached from my right on the larger road and turned left onto my road. The surprise was, they turned left into the shoulder to my right! Passed my on my right side. I couldn't believe it.

Testing be it writen, oral or practical. Really has little meaning over all. There are folks out there that can't walk and chew gum at the same time. That are allowed to drive. They have no coordination, no depth perception, no cognitive skills.

Take for example the gal I saw trying to make a U-Turn on a Okie Turnpike this week. One its illegal as hell. Her Civic was lowered and had the Fast and Furious treatment done on it. In the act of making the U-Turn she hit the brakes real hard in the fast lane to setup the move with a truck behind her. The truck almost rear ended her. She never hit the turn signal or flashers. She then made a hard turn into the median and stuck her car. The median is a genital ditch type. So she ended up tearing the front and rear bumper covers off the car and wrinkling the top of the cabin. She basically totaled her car in one stupid move.

She had no idea how to read the terrain she was getting into. No idea how low her car was. No idea how to negotiate the situation. Didn't care about the law at all. There are signs on the Turnpike at service area's informing you of NO U-TURN and the fine amount. And if she had to break the law. Why not do it in a service turn around.

Just another driver that has passed the testing. With no real clue about how to drive. No real knowledge of the car she is piloting. Just another idiot driver that knows to stick key, turn and stomp on pedals....

To spell out the obvious: if a lot of people are driving school flunkies, how can the be safe, legal, or even hypermiling?

To psyshack's story above, woman just had no respect for the driving conditions, her car and other drivers - no respect. She got her just rewards.

along this vein......are road markings the same from state to state? i am in minnesota, and i know that when the center line is dashed, passing is allowed. if there is a solid stripe on one side, people can't pass on the side with the solid. double yellow stripe means (or USED to mean) nobody can pass. i see that one ignored regularly........

I don't know about that one, but here's one of my pet peeve markings:

- In WI, highway exits are marked quite specifically and verbosely, mostly on non-interstates. First, there's a junction sign telling you what you're coming up to. Then, a few seconds later, you'll see a sign telling you which way to go when you reach the junction (for a left turn, the arrow would go up and left, like an L...the up arrow tells you the turn isn't quite yet, but soon). Then, at the exact corner for the turn, it's a straight left arrow to tell you "HERE'S THE JUNCTION!!! TURN HERE!!!" Quite detailed, right?

- In MN, there's just a sign with a straight arrow which may or may not be at the corner you turn at. I saw one and looked at the sign for the turn, only to see a ditch. Figuring I shouldn't turn there, I turned at the next road, and only after a mile discovered that I was on the correct road. It's frustrating, for me, to say the least.

I agree, standards are needed.

Each State has their own driver's license and test. Is there even a list of "National" traffic laws that apply everywhere? I'd like to see a National Drivers License, which to get you would have to pass the same written test that everyone else in the country does.

When I was studying for my license in New Jersey back in the 70s, a flashing yellow light meant "proceed with caution". There was no mention of a steady yellow light, and I'm not sure I've ever seen one. If I did see one I'd assume the signal was defective, and proceed with great caution and stop if necessary.

Reciprocity agreements are in effect as the critical traffic laws are common across states. IE, common sense + home state laws will stop the really Big stuff.

Also, you see steady yellow everyday. Traffic lights have Steady Green, Steady Yellow, Steady Red. Late night blinking yellows are another story.

Continuing the discussion of turning on red: Always illegal in North Dakota and New York City -- not even right turns are allowed. How 'bout left from a one way to a one way: legal in every state I've ever lived in (though Minneapolis has banned it at so many individual intersections it's practically illegal there). I'm sure there are places besides ND and NYC that ban that one.
State law in CT permits right turns on red unless otherwise marked. In New Haven where I work almost all the intersections have "No Right on Red" signs. But drivers in New Haven consider themselves free to ignore any traffic sign whenever they feel like it, particularly those "No Right on Red" signs, so it's actually almost the same as if the signs weren't there.

If you want to do something slightly radical like make a left turn from a right turn lane across four lanes of traffic you just wave your hand vaguely out the window.

When I first moved here from Calif years ago I thought crosswalks had the same meaning they do in Calif: cars have to stop for pedestrians in the crosswalk. After nearly getting run down three mornings in a row, I called the police station to complain (I was so naive in those days). The cop patiently explained to me that crosswalks here simply mean that cars have to yield to pedestrians, not stop ("Stopping would be far too dangerous," he said in horror). I concluded that there was no particular benefit in crossing at a crosswalk so ever since I just cross anywhere, with a sharp eye for traffic of course.

I do believe the stats in the OP. My neighbor never looks at speed limit signs and has no idea what the limit is on the highway (or anywhere else as far as I can tell). She just drives more or less the same speed as the flow of traffic. Judging from what I see on the highway, that's probably the norm.

Whoa, cops don't think cars have to stop for crosswalks? That's pretty clearly spelled out in OR -- and enforced, at least by the very few traffic cops that we have.

Also, you see steady yellow everyday. Traffic lights have Steady Green, Steady Yellow, Steady Red. Late night blinking yellows are another story.

I think they were referring to a steady yellow light that stayed yellow, not one that had changed a few moments ago from green and was about to turn red. To me, a steady yellow light means it's not blinking and it is not going to change to another color either.

If they were referring to a yellow light in the normal sequence of traffic light changes, then the question should have read, "What should you do when the traffic light you are approaching turns yellow?" In which case the obvious answer would be, "Stop before the intersection if there is time to do so safely."

I think they were referring to a steady yellow light that stayed yellow, not one that had changed a few moments ago from green and was about to turn red. To me, a steady yellow light means it's not blinking and it is not going to change to another color either.

If they were referring to a yellow light in the normal sequence of traffic light changes, then the question should have read, "What should you do when the traffic light you are approaching turns yellow?" In which case the obvious answer would be, "Stop before the intersection if there is time to do so safely."

Your answer above is pretty much the exact answer for the test. Also, Yellow lights stay lit for ~4s. What other area of your driving do you not define staying around for 4s as steady? A 4s turn is steady, 4s acceleration is steady, 4s skid is an eternity.

Intrestingly enough, that 4 second yellow is not always the case. Take for example red light camera's. They are supposed to be there to help prevent accidents by encouraging people to not run red lights... the problem is when the municipality that the camera's are in start lowering the yellow light on time in order to increase revenue from the camera's... kind of opposite of the actual purpose of the camera since decreasing yellow light time has the effect of increasing accidents... :rolleyes:

Your answer above is pretty much the exact answer for the test. Also, Yellow lights stay lit for ~4s. What other area of your driving do you not define staying around for 4s as steady? A 4s turn is steady, 4s acceleration is steady, 4s skid is an eternity.

While you could make the case that the yellow light is on "steady" during it's short 4 second interval, steady to me means something that won't change until you do something to change it. Therefore to me the light is temporary, not steady.

My point was that if the original question was indeed meant to refer to a yellow light that was about to turn red, then I would have gotten the answer wrong due to the way the question was written, not because of any ignorance of traffic rules. Any test can be made prohibitively difficult if the questions are ambiguous or unclear.