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I saw this on Prius Chat. Did I start thread in the correct place?

http://www.hybrids-plus.com/pmwiki/index.php?n=Ext.Conversion3

The owner's 3rd tank results are reported halfway down the page.

This was not touted as a new world record, and I don't know if it is. If so it may not stand for long.

:Banane13:

Anyway, they are here, they are expensive, but I guess they really do work. One could imagine a skilled hypermiler getting what, mid-200's?

A can of 'Stabil' recommended with every (quarterly) refueling :D

DAS

Hi Doug:

___Dave actually posts here! He called my cel earlier today and we have been playing phone tag for quite some time wrt a My Ride and short bio/article about his Hybrid’s Plus conversion. I have been trying to get together with him ever since my 18 hour day in Seattle last month :(

___Given Jerad or Marc’s shorter commutes (capable of all under 40 mph IIRC), there would never be any gas consumed at all by those two! I am sure many more of us would change our routes to accommodate a PHEV if one just happened to fall into our drive for some as of yet unknown reason :D

___Good Luck

___Wayne

I've got a commute that can be mildly modified to keep under 40mph -- do you know of a PHEV I can borrow? :D

Hmm, I think my commutes fall into the <40 mph range. In fact, my per/tank mph is usually way less than 30 mph. My segments where I get >100 mpg are usually in the 20-22 mph range. I could probably be coerced into driving a PHEV for a couple of weeks... or 50.:D:D

I suppose a feller could work through all the online data from google's rechargeit Prius PHEVs. Their front page says 68.4 mpg, but a glance at the individual vehicle logs suggests that number is too low.

I realize that the overall fleet of plug-Prius is still very small, but it would be interesting to see how they are doing. Ideally, in terms of both gasoline and electrical 'fuelings'.

Wayne, you had an 18-hr day in Seattle in August? One would have thought that those only occur at 68 oN latitude and northward! To conclude the sentence, I looked for a banane to portray 'irritating literal-minded attempt at humor'. None found.

DAS

I figured it would be a matter of time before a PHEV would get into this range of FE...it's a matter of time before someone hits the 200mpg barrier...I think I know of at least someone that could do that. ;)

I figured it would be a matter of time before a PHEV would get into this range of FE...it's a matter of time before someone hits the 200mpg barrier...I think I know of at least someone that could do that. ;)

I'm pretty sure I could break 200 mpg with a PHEV. I once hit 227 mpg on a 6.4 mile segment when I force-charged my pack.

Anyone have a good metric for calculating gallon-of-gasoline-equivalent from kilowatt hours. I imagine it would vary depending on who you used for your energy provider.

Thoughts?

11011011

I'm hinting that somebody here might want to top it - we have plenty of willing and able hypermilers....to be blunt, maybe an PHEV Marathon.

I could keep everything but long trips to see family in MN under 40MPH if it meant having a PHEV to play around with. :D

Anyone have a good metric for calculating gallon-of-gasoline-equivalent from kilowatt hours. I imagine it would vary depending on who you used for your energy provider.Went ahead and did the math here. Turns out that an insight and PHEV probably do intersect efficiency wise. An Insight getting 117 MPG (a kingly sum) produces the same GHG foot print as a PHEV burning 470 Wh/mi.

So someone really going to town in a new Tesla could (in the world of remote possibility) be producing more GHG than a very skilled Insight driver.

Basic metric is that as far as GHG emissions are concerned, 1 kWh (coal fired) = 2.32 oz gas.

11011011

Hi Dan:

___The item of note is the 470 Wh/mile. Who reading this could not bring a Tesla down to a more miserly 250 Wh/mile or less without doing anything but driving in a far more efficient manner? The Prius is good for < 200 Wh/mile on a “pack” when driven for max whereas her FE peaks about 60 - 65 on gasoline year round (all-in) from the best drivers with an average commute consisting of a std. city/highway mix.

___The Insight can touch upon 117 with the average city/highway mix but there has to be a lot of perfect conditions to make it happen and it is by far one of the hardest pushes of your life ;)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/504/117_2_MPG_09-23-2004.jpg

___About the Prius-II PHEV’s. With Dave punching out a 170 + mpg tank + the electricity and running a typical Seattle based commute, I don’t think anyone here is going to touch upon that on straight gasoline. The Insight is a serious weapon for the hypermiling enthusiast but it is not nearly efficient enough to compete with an all-electric drivetrain no matter the vehicle it is placed in. The soon to arrive Saturn VUE PHEV will kill the gas/diesel-only hybrids and non-hybrids in most any scenario other then for some of us ultra-long commuters or lengthy vacation trips.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

___About the Prius-II PHEV’s. With Dave punching out a 170 + mpg tank + the electricity and running a typical Seattle based commute, I don’t think anyone here is going to touch upon that on straight gasoline. The Insight is a serious weapon for the hypermiling enthusiast but it is not nearly efficient enough to compete with an all-electric drivetrain no matter the vehicle it is placed in. The soon to arrive Saturn VUE PHEV will kill the gas/diesel-only hybrids and non-hybrids in most any scenario other then for some of us ultra-long commuters or lengthy vacation trips.Definately!

Hats off to Dave, I'm just counting the years till I can throw some more packs in mine.

11011011

Is there a standard conversion we can use yet to compare PHEVs, EVs, hybrids, and straight ICEs? 171 MPG sounds awesome (and it is :D) but it's not (total miles / gallons of gasoline) = 171, it's (total miles / [gallons of gasoline + PHEV capacity * # of recharges]) = 171 MPGoG + X kWh... with total energy usage highly dependent on the # of recharges and the capacity of the extra battery.

I mean, you could get infinite MPGoG (miles per gallon of gasoline) over X number of miles driving a PHEV like a maniac if its pack was big enough or if your trips were short enough, but your energy usage per mile would still be quite high. Sooner or later we're going to need to be able to compare different types of vehicles & their fuels directly, or be prepared to deal with even more confusion. Wh/mile maybe? Or miles/kWh if you like to see those numbers higher?

Let's see... 125,000 BTU in 1 gallon of gas, and 3413 BTU in 1 kWh (http://www.doa.state.wi.us/docs_view2.asp?docid=778) (warning PDF, bunch of conversions on page 2)... so 36.635 kWh in 1 gallon of gas... current tank average 81.7 MPG... that's 2.23 miles/kWh or 448 Wh/mile.

Of course, that's not counting the 30% efficiency of the ICE (when it's on :D).

If the PHEV is recharged from 120 VAC line, then a 'kill-a-watt' meter ($25-$50) would tell how much power was purchased for the recharge. I think this is the most fair comparison because it includes any inefficiency in the charging system.

I don't think there is an inexpensive equivalent to the 'kill-a-watt' for 240 vac charging. Clamp-on AC ammeters can be cheap, but less accurate.

DAS

If the PHEV is recharged from 120 VAC line, then a 'kill-a-watt' meter ($25-$50) would tell how much power was purchased for the recharge. I think this is the most fair comparison because it includes any inefficiency in the charging system.

I don't think there is an inexpensive equivalent to the 'kill-a-watt' for 240 vac charging. Clamp-on AC ammeters can be cheap, but less accurate.

DASOn that matter, does anyone know how long a Kill-a-Watt will count kWh? Does it keep it's count through a blackout (ie, memory)? I'd actually like to start recording my kWh usage for my EBH and entering into my tank data, but I'd need the Kill-a-Watt to count all the kWh for the whole tank (about 3 weeks) without resetting.

11011011

Figuring out the real FE of PHEVs is going to be a real pain. :(

I hestitated to say anything, not wanting to detract from this achievement (and it is remarkable).

I would have liked a PHEV to have taken the MPG Challenge at HF2007.

Hi All:

___A PHEV is just so much more efficient then a std. HEV or non-hybrid that it doesn’t matter if costs or energy is taken into account. At $0.10/kWh, you can drive a Prius 50 miles (10 kWh consumed at 200 Wh/mile) for $1.00, a minimal amount of GHG’s released no matter then source (other then an oil burning diesel) and you are using a non-imported energy source. Even at maximum Marathon level of FE, a Prius is toast vs. a PHEV. The Insight can play in the ball-park but not at any kind of reasonable speeds for the level of FE needed to compete.

___Chuck, a PHEV-20 on the FE Challenge would have burned 0.00 gallons and would have cost all of $0.35 in electricity to complete the entire course with any of us driving one. Speeds below 34 and you are guaranteed no fuel consumption. For all I know, the PHEV mod(s) allow upwards of 40 on all-EV but I have not heard from anyone that this is the case or not just yet.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

On that matter, does anyone know how long a Kill-a-Watt will count kWh? Does it keep it's count through a blackout (ie, memory)? I'd actually like to start recording my kWh usage for my EBH and entering into my tank data, but I'd need the Kill-a-Watt to count all the kWh for the whole tank (about 3 weeks) without resetting.

11011011

(tangential) Hi Dan, the Kill-a-Watt will count indefinitely until it's unplugged. For that reason I am sure that it (also) will reset during a blackout power outage. I think you'll do fine with it, if Houston is able to 'keep the lights on' for 3 weeks running. Just keep the KAW plugged in and detach your EBH. Unpaid ad follows:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882715001

Says $19.99 and free 48 state shipping. That ain't bad. A great little gadget that could appeal to many here.

Edit, reading the rest of the page, you get a free (stupid little) RC car with it. Now we're talking :)

DAS