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Worthywads brought up a good point in another thread, which is that the quest for efficiency may at times be at odds with the goal of not burning fuel at all. That got me thinking (and I apologize if anybody suggested this already) that it would be really great if we could have some way to log miles traveled on foot, bicycle, unicycle, pogo stick...anything that we could have done in the car but did under our own power instead. The best thing would be some kind of signature block allowing members to show off their efforts and provide a great psychological incentive to leave the car behind. Maybe we could even translate those miles travelled into gallons saved?

Thoughts? Would that be a major PITA?

I whole-heartly endorse this!

I just wish biking, walking, skating, etc. was more of an option for me. :(

IMHO, miles in the gym would not count (although I recommend you do it if you have a membership).

I'm with Chuck, both in endorsing the idea and in lamenting the lack of opportunity. I'm too far out to walk about anywhere, and most of my commute routes are unsafe to bike on.

I have begun walking to another building at work where I need to go on occasion, about 1/4 mile away, and the post office a couple of blocks away. Not a big deal, but a 1000 mile journey begins with a step.

Hi Guys:

___Yet another great idea! I can bet Tom is creating a whole new Dbase just for biked miles and with it, he can incorporate the miles traveled and no gas being consumed into the “Fuel saved by CleanMPG members” banner!

___Would you like the type of bike and average daily commute distance in the Dbase details? What other kind of details would you like to incorporate into it?

___My son and I are headed to the local Sporting Goods store tomorrow afternoon to look for his B-Day present and I think we will bike those miles vs. consuming ~ 10 oz. of gasoline to get there and back in the Ranger :)

___Chuck, No you cannot log your marathon miles either ;)

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Oh wow, this is a great idea. With my 3 1/2 season commuting by bike I'd love to be able to track the effects (gal saved, emissions... not emitted, "total effective MPG" etc) somewhere. :D

There's no analogy to tank which could make data entry cumbersome, but maybe people could enter by week or by month?

___Chuck, No you cannot log your marathon miles either ;)


I was thinking: What if Sunni Williams joined and recorded her Boston Marathon on the International Space station? Record the orbits during her mission....but then the fuel to get into orbit...oh that really levels things out. :D

Simply tracking it here would encourage me to do it more often, that's for sure.

I sometimes (ok, I've done it twice) bike to work. It's a long 12 miles, but I've got a good bike, route, gym at work, and can usually make it in under an hour. I'd seriously consider doing it a couple times a month if it were logged.

The problem with this is you will have to calculate callories eaten. Growing fuel to feed us requires energy, food doesn't magically appear. So you will have to convert callories to gallons of gas so we can get an estimated mpg in the tables.

The problem with this is you will have to calculate callories eaten. Growing fuel to feed us requires energy, food doesn't magically appear. So you will have to convert callories to gallons of gas so we can get an estimated mpg in the tables.


Indeed it can get complicated, but one assumption that can be made is that consumed calories stays the same while burnt calories increase. Weight lose will hopefully confirm this sucesss, so input for food reduction isn't a factor if intake remains equal. If I pedal away and don't lose weight, yes I increased my caloric intake to compensate for my increase metabolism and energy burned. Weight loss could, but doesn't need to be part of the equation. I don't want to get down to what each tomato, cucumber and artichoke cost relative to doing nothing.:eek:

A human log sounds good to me, lets brainstorm a fun way to strut our efforts. Using my 28.7mpg and a 19.6 mile round trip pedal (actually less by the bike path, but that's what I eliminate from my drive) I'd tally a .68 gallon human effort. Maybe attibuting miles to an existing vehicle would be simple enough to get a fuel savings from the existing database. Would gallons per mile be a good metric, or gallons per week? Could it be rolled into a secondary mpg on your vehicle as an increase in miles on the actual driven miles?

28.6 mpg based on lets say 14,000 miles vs 29.2 mpg based on the 14.3000 with 300 extra miles pedaled?
We could keep the real mpg seperate, with a parallel human or "Total" mpg, or something.

I can see a negative consequence as people find that lowering their actual mpg creates a larger spread between actual mpg and "total" mpg walked/pedaled. Easier to brag you spared the earth 10 miles against a 30mpg prius than a 50 mpg prius right. OK maybe not.:confused:

The problem with this is you will have to calculate callories eaten. Growing fuel to feed us requires energy, food doesn't magically appear. So you will have to convert callories to gallons of gas so we can get an estimated mpg in the tables.

I was thinking something simpler either by reporting straight miles or by using the FE of a member's daily driver to calculate the number of gallons not burned in that vehicle. The only calculation is the formula gallons = miles / MPG . What I don't know is how tough it would be to grab the MPG out of the database dynamically? But then the signature block could just say "This member has saved xxxx gallons over xxx miles by leaving the car at home" or something to that effect. The vehicle name field could be used to describe the mode of transportation.

In terms of data entry, I think the simplest thing would be to allow a member to report mileage and time stamp the entry. When you go to make an update you are presented with a message that "Your last entry was on xxxx date for xxx miles. How many miles have you traveled since then?" That way a member could do it daily, weekly, monthly...whatever works for the individual. The nice thing about this is that we're talking about very few bytes of data in the DB even for someone who does it every day.

I definately won't put it in the current databse. If I do this I will create a new database. It will not offset your driving. The database is vehicle based, not person based so if you have two vehicles you aren't driving It isn't logical that you would then improve the mileage of both vehicles.

Or, maybe I can just add a vehicle type "human powered" and you can track your miles there. It would not be added into the mileage log though.

This brings up another question. If people do more exercise and do have to eat more callories (they have lost as much weight as they are going to). Wouldn't that be raising their carbon footprint?

This brings up another question. If people do more exercise and do have to eat more callories (they have lost as much weight as they are going to). Wouldn't that be raising their carbon footprint?

I'd say it's not as bad as being a coach potato - there is a tendacy to get bigger clothes, bigger vehicles, eat more, including more meat. There is more tendacy to ride - not walk, esp as many coach potatoes become disabled with diabetis and other ailments. :(

I like having the "human powered" type available. What about a link to the daily driver it replaces? Something like "Miles on this vehicle are miles not driven on that vehicle". One more DB column, and it could be calculated into the total gallons saved.

Would the gallons saved be compared to the EPA or the running average for the daily driver? Average would probably be more accurate, but also more difficult.

Since many people have multiple vehicles they use off and on having a vehicle it replaces isn't practical. You could just put those comments in the notes. Never will human powered miles be added in to the main database for gallons saved.

I could possibly have something totaling it as a seperate entity but it wouldn't count against your driving.

Over the last century, we have engineered exercise out of our daily lifes. Check out this MSNBC article (http://msnbc.msn.com/id/13362927/) on walkable communities.

Over the last century, we have engineered exercise out of our daily lifes. Check out this MSNBC article (http://msnbc.msn.com/id/13362927/) on walkable communities.
As I've started to walk instead of drive to the nearby post office, it has occurred to me that the area around my office is not pedestrian friendly. For the two block walk, only a half a block has a sidewalk. The post office itself is perhaps the worst. The entrance drive is narrow (and busy), with shrubs all the way to the curb. You can't get to the front door without walking the driveway or making a detour down a fairly steep grassy hill.

On one of last week's trips, I extended the walk to the grocery store. From my office, that walk requires crossing two fairly busy streets. The intersection of those streets has a pedestrian crosswalk and walk/don't walk lights on only one of the four sides of the intersection.

No wonder I don't see many folks walking around here.

Hi Tom:

___When a bicyclist rides his commute vs. driving it like Jim and Jered do, it should be counted as gallons saved. You either drive to work or you bike to work and the bicyclist doesn’t emit nearly the CO2 given we are in essence a 100% recycle loop system other then transporting our food from farm to table just as CO2 from well to station is not counted in most GHG emission commentary either. We are not talking about casual off-road jaunts to the local park but meaningful commutes with ones bike as a substitute for driving. This is indeed gallons saved. If you wanted to get into the GE (gallons equivalent), I think the cyclists found some data that it is equivalent to receiving 240 mpg or something in a thread from a few weeks ago. Jim, Jered and Chuck were involved in that one …

___Good Luck

___Wayne

...diabetis and other ailments. :(Another way cycling helps reduce one's carbon footprint - healthy people require much less health care. Fewer health care products consumed and thus (theoretically) fewer manufactured and transported. Fewer trips to the doctor (be in in one's own vehicle or ... an ambulance).

I agree with Tim and Wayne that miles walked should be counted as gallons saved. Let's do some sample math:

My current lifetime average is 44.4 MPG. If I walk to lunch instead of drive it saves a total of 0.6 miles. If I walk to the mailbox instead of stopping the car at it then another 0.25 miles has been saved.

0.6 + .25 = 0.85 miles = ~0.02 gallons saved.

If I do this for all 8 business days of a 10-day tank then I've saved 0.2 x 8 = 0.16 gallons

If I do this for at least 6 months out of the year then:

(52 / 2) * 0.16 = 4.16 gallons saved

If I fuel up an average of 9 gallons 38 times per year then:

9 * 38 = 342 gallons per year

(342 / 100) / 4.16 = 0.82% reduction in annual fuel usage


Would we all agree that a 0.82% annual fuel usage reduction is worth tracking, and adding to the running gallons saved tally?

Another reason to eventually factor in walking, biking, etc in saving gallons is to give trollers one less thing to attack. Fortunately, they are few and far between here, nor are they allowed to have a lot of leeway once it's obvious they only want to be trouble.

My philosophy on dealing with trolls in part is eliminate juicy bait to start with, then politely address legimitate-sounding objections promptly. It the newbie continues to disrupt, their trollfest is cut short. ;)

Anyway, this is probably not going to be easy for Tom to put in, but hopefully something long-term can be found.

That an interesting thread I wanted to put actually.

I fully agree to include the bike and and other human powered vehcles in the databases.

We should also include the ones sharing their cars to go and return from job. The mpg should be multiplied by the number of passenger. The passengers actually are the best hypermilers by leaving their car at home.

We should also include the ones taking the car to go take the trains/buses/boats to go and return from job. My immediate neighbor who does it saves a lot more fuel than me with my hybrid. Public transportation miles should be included in the databases as well.

With these additions, the real hypermilers, the ones not taking their car to do something, could fully participate to a database and shows their contribution to the CO not produced. I know many environmental oriented guys, even not having car, who could be interested by such a database.

That my viewpoint.

Pierre

I agree with Tim and Wayne that miles walked should be counted as gallons saved. Let's do some sample math:

My current lifetime average is 44.4 MPG. If I walk to lunch instead of drive it saves a total of 0.6 miles. If I walk to the mailbox instead of stopping the car at it then another 0.25 miles has been saved.

0.6 + .25 = 0.85 miles = ~0.02 gallons saved.

If I do this for all 8 business days of a 10-day tank then I've saved 0.2 x 8 = 0.16 gallons

If I do this for at least 6 months out of the year then:

(52 / 2) * 0.16 = 4.16 gallons saved

If I fuel up an average of 9 gallons 38 times per year then:

9 * 38 = 342 gallons per year

(342 / 100) / 4.16 = 0.82% reduction in annual fuel usage


Would we all agree that a 0.82% annual fuel usage reduction is worth tracking, and adding to the running gallons saved tally?

Brian, thank you for putting some numbers on this. 0.82% doesn't sound like much but a) you're talking about walking, b) it's probably more than that because of really short trips ;), c) fuel prices, d-z) ok, you get the idea. :)

My numbers:

I bought my road bike on 3/26/06. Looking at the one-year period 3/26/06 to 3/26/07, I drove 6920 miles, and biked 1974. 99% of those bike miles were commuting, so round it off to 1950 miles that I would've needed to drive otherwise.

This comes out to 1950 / (6920 + 1950) = 21.9% fuel saved, and using my 53.9 lmpg that is 36.2 gallons saved. :eek:

Other bike commuters out there, it adds up!! :flag:

Hi Jered:

___1950 biked miles is huge!

___Tom?

___Good Luck

___Wayne

*I'm trying to hide*

Sorry, Tom. I promise I meant well. ;)

I saw this while looking through other stuff.

I like this idea a lot.



Is it still possible to add this to the mileage logs in some way, shape, or form?

re: marathon miles
Bill Rodgers was a non-exerciser who rode his motorcycle to work until it got stolen. He couldn't afford to replace it, so he started running to work. A few years later, he won the Boston Marathon, and later held the American marathon record.

re: commute miles
It is obviously commuting miles when biking to work or the grocery store. How about biking to dinner? How about going out for dinner only because it is too nice a day to not ride the tandem? In my personal log, commute miles are human powered miles where a normal person would use a car (but some "normal" uses of a car I consider abnormal).

I plan on doing some bike commuting this year, would love to have a log here to keep track of the commuting miles. I've been waiting for the local schools to get out for the summer so that I don't have to deal with as much traffic, especially around younger drivers.

As far as it being too dangerous to ride, there are only a few roads around here that I hesitate to ride, most drivers are reasonably courteous around cyclist. Though I find a few who are either not paying attention/ignorant of how they are driving, or worse, actively out to harass the cyclist. Fortunately those out to harass are few and far between.

I bought my current bike back in 94, and though there have been a few years when I didn't ride as much most years have been between 2-3K miles. But, these have been 'fun' miles, not commuting. And all on 45-55 mph two lane back roads with no shoulder.