Spock
03-12-2012, 02:22 PM
Hi all,
I've been a very interested reader of the site since buying my '09 civic hybrid at the end of January, but today was my first time posting. I have a lot of questions which I haven't seen answered previously, but that certainly doesn't mean answers don't exist - if you're familiar with a thread please just let me know and I'll check it out.
The most urgent thing on my mind is I've been having what to me appear to me a lot of problems managing SoC on my car. I've scrolled postings ranging from people claiming that several recals a day are normal for them, to such an unreliable SoC and high number of recals that the owner considers the car "unsafe". This is of course without the IMA light coming on. The recal thread itself I found useful - and perhaps I just didn't excavate it enough - but I've yet to find a definitive answer.
I experienced my first recal (the first one I noticed anyway) very shortly after purchasing the car on January 30th. I bought it certified used with 21,000 miles on it. I immediately thought something was wrong, but on perusing the internet quickly became convinced that recals are normal and not that big a deal. Of course I took comfort in the fact that the car was certified and, minus the battery which to the best of my knowledge is warrantied to 80,000 miles, carrying Honda care's extended coverage bumper to bumper through 100,000 miles. Though I didn't keep a journal of recalibration events, my sense was that it was not unusual for me to have one every few days when I first bought the car.
Again, I don't have documentation of this, but I know for a fact that these events have become more and more frequent, even as I've become more and more used to the car and using every technique possible (without killing my enjoyment of the car of course) to responsibly manage SoC through minimizing assist, regenning on downhills and to stoplights, etc. Last Monday I took the car into the dealer and they said there was nothing wrong with it (all they did was check for diagnostic codes though, I asked them ahead of time what they were going to do and they said they were going to run a test, if I'd known it was just codes I could have used my scangauge and saved them the trouble.) I told them thanks for looking at it, however that I wasn't convinced, and that I was going to start logging the events and get back with them maybe if it persisted and certainly if it got worse or the IMA light came on.
And so I started logging the events: two recals on Monday, forgot Tuesday, two recalibrations on Wednesday, three on Thursday, two on Friday, one or two Saturday, and one yesterday. None today but I haven't driven anywhere. So that it's clear what my understanding of a recalibration event is in case I've got it wrong, the car kicks into forced regen, then I lose all but one or two bars of charge, then once I'm full the regen stops. The first time it happened to me I believe it had to dip to four bars, MAYBE lower, for this to happen, but lately it will recal at five or even six bars. Since I've not set up my Scangauge to look at SoC yet (which I mean to do soon), this makes it very frustrating to try and manage charge, especially because my sense is that the car is so agressive at assist in general but ESPECIALLY when at eight bars of charge (thus impossible to keep it topped off), giving me really only one bar of charge to work with before I have to start worrying about a forced regen rearing its ugly head.
Actually unless the car is still warm from a recent (last hour or two) trip, at this point it seems virtually impossible for me to start it and drive off without getting a forced regen just in the time it takes to warm the battery up enough to be able to start recapturing energy from braking or engine braking. Again, I am driving with a very easy foot - RPMs almost NEVER above 2000. In the last week I have managed to get the car to or from work once or twice without recal by grandmaing it to ludicrous extremes (2.3 miles away, a terrible commute distance for a hybrid if I dare say so)- and again yesterday, somehow, without having to uberpamper it - and have considered these significant victories. There doesn't seem to be any way to change my driving behavior to really fix it, however. Because the recals are pretty much inevitable at this point when I get in the car to drive anywhere, I have even taken to EVing the vehicle from the stoplight next to my apartment complex (assuming the light is green and oncoming traffic cooperates) all the way to my parking spot, because if I'm going to take a big FE hit anyway I may as well max it out beforehand. I'm sure this just puts the nail on the recal coffin, but honestly, they've become an unavoidable fact of HCH-II ownership at this point.
I have been getting good mileage since buying the car - I have averaged 49mpgs over about 2350 miles, including lots of city driving, on the Civic's admittedly pessimistic mileage computer, nothing I can complain about, but not only do I think it should be significantly better given how much I've learned and extended the hypermiling habits I already had to mesh specifically with this car, I'm concerned about the life of the battery. In settings where the car isn't slamming the battery like it was going out of style (i.e highway driving), although I've struggled to get amounts comparable to what some drivers report for super highway mode, I have managed to average high fifties and up to 63 mpgs (again, on the civic's computer) over a 45-50 mile stretch of highway and interstate. I'd like to point out I live in central/southern Indiana and do a lot of my highway driving in this area, which contrary to popular belief is actually quite hilly, and it is nigh on impossible to keep IGN in the 28-36 range (which I don't know if the civic years differ in SAHM, but seems to be the appropriate range) on many stretches of road without varying speed to an extent that is not just annoying to other drivers, but unsafe (i.e quickly dropping 5-10+ miles below the speed limit without braking).
Anyway, so while any dealer I go to is going to tell me to quit complaining about poor fuel economy, I can see the forced regen kicking the crap out of it every time it recals and I can't imagine it being a good indicator of the current health of the hybrid battery, or good for the battery, period. The absolute last thing I want to have happen is for my juicepack to give out just after 80,000 miles and for me to be out two grand to replace it.
Another thought - I bought the car off-lease, and as I said, certified used which entails a detailed inspection, and physically it looks to be in really good shape. However, I haven't even hit 25,000 miles yet and the tread on the OEM Dunlops is almost gone already, which leads me to wonder what kind of owner was taking care of this majestic machine before me (not sarcastic - I love the car, I'm just really concerned about this.) I snagged the car at a base price several thousand below blue book, which at the time I thought was a phenomenal deal - and I certainly mentioned the tires in talking them down - but even with Honda standing behind it through the certification and extended warranty I am beginning to wonder if maybe it wouldn't have been a bad idea to have the car inspected by my own private mechanic before I drove it off the lot.
On another note, does the Civy's internal MPG calculator max out at 150?
I've got more questions but I figure one thing at a time! The hybrid battery is my single biggest concern about the car ATM.
Thanks,
Spock
I've been a very interested reader of the site since buying my '09 civic hybrid at the end of January, but today was my first time posting. I have a lot of questions which I haven't seen answered previously, but that certainly doesn't mean answers don't exist - if you're familiar with a thread please just let me know and I'll check it out.
The most urgent thing on my mind is I've been having what to me appear to me a lot of problems managing SoC on my car. I've scrolled postings ranging from people claiming that several recals a day are normal for them, to such an unreliable SoC and high number of recals that the owner considers the car "unsafe". This is of course without the IMA light coming on. The recal thread itself I found useful - and perhaps I just didn't excavate it enough - but I've yet to find a definitive answer.
I experienced my first recal (the first one I noticed anyway) very shortly after purchasing the car on January 30th. I bought it certified used with 21,000 miles on it. I immediately thought something was wrong, but on perusing the internet quickly became convinced that recals are normal and not that big a deal. Of course I took comfort in the fact that the car was certified and, minus the battery which to the best of my knowledge is warrantied to 80,000 miles, carrying Honda care's extended coverage bumper to bumper through 100,000 miles. Though I didn't keep a journal of recalibration events, my sense was that it was not unusual for me to have one every few days when I first bought the car.
Again, I don't have documentation of this, but I know for a fact that these events have become more and more frequent, even as I've become more and more used to the car and using every technique possible (without killing my enjoyment of the car of course) to responsibly manage SoC through minimizing assist, regenning on downhills and to stoplights, etc. Last Monday I took the car into the dealer and they said there was nothing wrong with it (all they did was check for diagnostic codes though, I asked them ahead of time what they were going to do and they said they were going to run a test, if I'd known it was just codes I could have used my scangauge and saved them the trouble.) I told them thanks for looking at it, however that I wasn't convinced, and that I was going to start logging the events and get back with them maybe if it persisted and certainly if it got worse or the IMA light came on.
And so I started logging the events: two recals on Monday, forgot Tuesday, two recalibrations on Wednesday, three on Thursday, two on Friday, one or two Saturday, and one yesterday. None today but I haven't driven anywhere. So that it's clear what my understanding of a recalibration event is in case I've got it wrong, the car kicks into forced regen, then I lose all but one or two bars of charge, then once I'm full the regen stops. The first time it happened to me I believe it had to dip to four bars, MAYBE lower, for this to happen, but lately it will recal at five or even six bars. Since I've not set up my Scangauge to look at SoC yet (which I mean to do soon), this makes it very frustrating to try and manage charge, especially because my sense is that the car is so agressive at assist in general but ESPECIALLY when at eight bars of charge (thus impossible to keep it topped off), giving me really only one bar of charge to work with before I have to start worrying about a forced regen rearing its ugly head.
Actually unless the car is still warm from a recent (last hour or two) trip, at this point it seems virtually impossible for me to start it and drive off without getting a forced regen just in the time it takes to warm the battery up enough to be able to start recapturing energy from braking or engine braking. Again, I am driving with a very easy foot - RPMs almost NEVER above 2000. In the last week I have managed to get the car to or from work once or twice without recal by grandmaing it to ludicrous extremes (2.3 miles away, a terrible commute distance for a hybrid if I dare say so)- and again yesterday, somehow, without having to uberpamper it - and have considered these significant victories. There doesn't seem to be any way to change my driving behavior to really fix it, however. Because the recals are pretty much inevitable at this point when I get in the car to drive anywhere, I have even taken to EVing the vehicle from the stoplight next to my apartment complex (assuming the light is green and oncoming traffic cooperates) all the way to my parking spot, because if I'm going to take a big FE hit anyway I may as well max it out beforehand. I'm sure this just puts the nail on the recal coffin, but honestly, they've become an unavoidable fact of HCH-II ownership at this point.
I have been getting good mileage since buying the car - I have averaged 49mpgs over about 2350 miles, including lots of city driving, on the Civic's admittedly pessimistic mileage computer, nothing I can complain about, but not only do I think it should be significantly better given how much I've learned and extended the hypermiling habits I already had to mesh specifically with this car, I'm concerned about the life of the battery. In settings where the car isn't slamming the battery like it was going out of style (i.e highway driving), although I've struggled to get amounts comparable to what some drivers report for super highway mode, I have managed to average high fifties and up to 63 mpgs (again, on the civic's computer) over a 45-50 mile stretch of highway and interstate. I'd like to point out I live in central/southern Indiana and do a lot of my highway driving in this area, which contrary to popular belief is actually quite hilly, and it is nigh on impossible to keep IGN in the 28-36 range (which I don't know if the civic years differ in SAHM, but seems to be the appropriate range) on many stretches of road without varying speed to an extent that is not just annoying to other drivers, but unsafe (i.e quickly dropping 5-10+ miles below the speed limit without braking).
Anyway, so while any dealer I go to is going to tell me to quit complaining about poor fuel economy, I can see the forced regen kicking the crap out of it every time it recals and I can't imagine it being a good indicator of the current health of the hybrid battery, or good for the battery, period. The absolute last thing I want to have happen is for my juicepack to give out just after 80,000 miles and for me to be out two grand to replace it.
Another thought - I bought the car off-lease, and as I said, certified used which entails a detailed inspection, and physically it looks to be in really good shape. However, I haven't even hit 25,000 miles yet and the tread on the OEM Dunlops is almost gone already, which leads me to wonder what kind of owner was taking care of this majestic machine before me (not sarcastic - I love the car, I'm just really concerned about this.) I snagged the car at a base price several thousand below blue book, which at the time I thought was a phenomenal deal - and I certainly mentioned the tires in talking them down - but even with Honda standing behind it through the certification and extended warranty I am beginning to wonder if maybe it wouldn't have been a bad idea to have the car inspected by my own private mechanic before I drove it off the lot.
On another note, does the Civy's internal MPG calculator max out at 150?
I've got more questions but I figure one thing at a time! The hybrid battery is my single biggest concern about the car ATM.
Thanks,
Spock