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xcel
01-24-2012, 11:51 PM
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/2/AmericanFlag.jpgSome fluff to promote the LEAF ;) (cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?p=332288)

http://www.youtube.com/v/_VGu0cfCuTM?version=3Wayne Gerdes - CleanMPG (cleanmpg.com) - Jan 24, 2012

2012 Nissan LEAF – $35,200 to start and provides an EPA rated 73 miles All-Electric Range (AER).

Currently one of the world’s first affordable all-electric cars and far more versatile than the slightly more affordable iMiEV, the 90 cu. ft. passenger volume makes it a small mid-size according to the EPA. Its 22 cu. ft. of cargo cap make it the size of a small CUV while comfortably seating five.

The Battery

The Nissan LEAF’s 24 kWh Li-ion battery is comprised of 48 compact modules of four cells each. The batteries are designed to maximize range and minimize charging time. The battery was developed by the Automotive Energy Supply Corporation (AESC), a joint venture of Nissan and NEC. Unlike conventional cylindrical batteries, the thin, compact laminated cells are said to offer more flexibility in design.

Enhancements for 2012 include the addition of a standard battery heater, heated steering wheel, heated front and rear seats, heated outside mirrors and rear HVAC duct on all models. Also, a Quick Charge Port is now standard on the LEAF SL.

LEAF is driven in the “cold”

Japanese journalists were allowed to drive the LEAF on three snow covered test courses in Shibetsu, Hokkaido of Northern Japan to assess the LEAF’s driving performance in extreme weather conditions. Another reason for the press junket was to demonstrate how winter conditions do not effect battery performance.

During the drive event with ambient temperatures averaging just 16 degrees F, the various LEAF’s Li-Ion batteries internal temperatures stayed between 40 and 50 degrees F as expected during heavy use.

In colder climates, a battery-warming system can keep the LEAF’s batteries set to charge to the same level as if outside temperatures were 68 degrees F. In addition, pre-warming the cabin while plugged in adds range that would normally be lost by warming up the cabin from a very cold ambient.

Performance in the conventional sense
“When the driver steps on the accelerator pedal or corners, the LEAF is expressing a gentleness unique to the EV.”

“The footwork of the LEAF is smooth and nimble because the heavy components, such as batteries, are mounted under the floor, and the center of gravity is low and in the middle.”

“LEAF proved it’s the one for the road.”

“I think EVs, like the LEAF, will expand in the future.”

“The LEAF can drive normally in hot or cold weather throughout the world.”
While the drive results in terms of cold weather handling and straight up performance was more than satisfactory from those quoted including more than 22,000 LEAFs currently on the world’s roads, there was no mention of range degradation during the colder drives which we know exists.

herm
01-25-2012, 01:03 AM
Tony Williams over in the Leaf forum is gathering cold weather range info:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=7634

"Proposed New Rule of Thumb: 1% loss per 2C below 20C (half previous formula)
1% loss per 4F below 70F (half previous formula)

And that folks is exactly what was suggested by our northern Europe LEAF drivers earlier. I hope we can get some more validation data points (free shirt... be the envy of all your friends and neighbors)"

These are the battery capacity reductions that he is proposing, in addition to the usual winter losses due to slush, tires, air density, heater usage and so on.

I think the Leaf would benefit from an oil pan heater placed on the battery case.

iluvmacs
01-25-2012, 07:40 AM
It's worth pointing out that the Leaf's battery heater doesn't kick in until the temperature gets down to -4°F, and it stops when the battery is warmed to 14°F. Its primary intention is to prevent the battery electrolyte from freezing solid, not provide improved range in the cold.

Harold
01-25-2012, 10:11 AM
They are starting to look like a great commuter car! Exciting info. H

Right Lane Cruiser
01-25-2012, 11:49 AM
Still wanting to see pics, iluvmacs!!

Good info on the battery heater and based on that, the battery capacity should go to no less than 81.5% of what it has at 70F if it is constrained to no lower than -4F (using the formula posted by herm above). This way more than enough to get me through my normal daily driving needs.

As for slush and whatnot, I could easily get to work and back on less than half of the rated capacity so I doubt even using the heat is going to cause too much issue (and I really don't use much).

Good stuff!! :D

WriConsult
01-25-2012, 01:01 PM
far more versatile than the slightly more affordable iMiEVSorry to nitpick, but the i-Miev is not "slightly" more affordable than the Leaf. It is SIX THOUSAND DOLLARS more affordable.

Jay
01-25-2012, 08:29 PM
I would be more concerned with hot temperatures rather than cold. How would the batteries perform when it's 120F outside in the shade? And how would that affect their service life?

herm
01-25-2012, 10:54 PM
It will shorten the life.. once the internal battery temperature hits 130° F the car itself will start dialing back the power, regen, and recharge rate.. its 600lbs chunk of battery under the car so all that thermal mass will take a while to heat up. You will want to precool the cabin while plugged in.

A Tesla, Volt or Coda might be a better choice in those conditions.

xcel
01-26-2012, 04:42 PM
Hi Dan:

The stripped iMiEV is and it lacks everything that the LEAF arrives with standard. Place the upgrade package on the iMiEV and it is almost as expensive as the LEAF. We covered this in the iMiEV pricing write-up last year.

Wayne

WriConsult
01-26-2012, 09:06 PM
Sorry, gotta disagree with you on this one Wayne.
Even at that tempting price, the base ES version of the Mitsubishi i is no stripper, as standard niceties include full power accessories, filtered air-conditioning and even a heated driver seat. That's all the stuff I need. The Civic DX is a stripper. The base Versa is a stripper. I consider the base i-MIEV to be decently equipped, not a stripper.

For a couple grand more, the SE version adds alloy wheels, upgraded interior trim and upgraded audio. Lastly, the top-shelf SE Premium package will get you a quick-charger port (which allows you to connect to a public quick charger to provide 80 percent charge in just 30 minutes), a navigation system, a rearview camera, Bluetooth connectivity and additional audio system features (a USB port and steering wheel controls.)Nothing I'm willing to spend a bunch of extra money for there.

herm
01-26-2012, 09:13 PM
not even for the quick charge port?.. the alloy wheels should improve range a bit also.. the other stuff is pfff stuff for pansies.

WriConsult
01-27-2012, 02:19 PM
No, I wouldn't spend thousands extra for quick charge port or a slight improvement in range. I'm glad others are willing to subsidize me by buying extra-cost options, though.

xcel
01-27-2012, 03:19 PM
Hi All:

iMiEV pricing details (cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39920)

Dan, this is a Kei car, not a LEAF hatch and when similarly equipped, to much $'s.

Wayne

WriConsult
01-27-2012, 03:35 PM
Dan, this is a Kei car, not a LEAF hatch and when similarly equipped, to much $'s.I understand that, but "When similarly equipped" is one helluva caveat to me. Thanks for the link -- the base i ES looks great: power windows, locks, AC, functional stereo, everything important to me. The Mitsubishi is trying to be the economical BEV, and on that point it appears to succeed admirably.

To me this is like saying VW's gas cars only cost $3k less than their larded-up TDI models "when similarly equipped". Or that the non-hybrid Ford Escape only costs a little less than the (outrageously expensive) Escape Hybrid "when similarly equipped." Or that the Prius is only "slightly less expensive" than the Lexus CT200h ... "when simiilarly equipped."

The fact remains that I could get a very nicely equipped i-MIEV for $6k less than the cheapest Leaf.

herm
01-27-2012, 09:20 PM
The fact remains that I could get a very nicely equipped i-MIEV for $6k less than the cheapest Leaf.

We are fixated on vehicles that are too big for our needs.. but a kei car against an Hummer wont be a pretty sight. I still want the kei car if I have to pay for it, if its a company car or paid for by the government then I will take the electric Hummer.

WriConsult
01-27-2012, 11:21 PM
It weighs 2600 pounds, same as lots of other vehicles that we talk about enthusiastically here on cleanmpg. Hundreds more than a Smart, for instance.

Do we have crash test results yet? Or are we just assuming they will be bad?

xcel
01-28-2012, 12:23 AM
Hi Dan:

Only a Euro NCAP at 4 stars (cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37977). Remember that this is not the US spec model either. The IIHS and NHTSA have not tested the North American spec iMiEV yet.

Wayne

herm
01-28-2012, 08:01 AM
It will be bad against a Hummer.. how did we survive in deathtraps?. Mitsubishi also has a micro minivan based on the iMiev, with similar range.

Mendel Leisk
01-28-2012, 10:44 AM
Hi Dan:

Only a Euro NCAP at 4 stars (cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37977). Remember that this is not the US spec model either. The IIHS and NHTSA have not tested the North American spec iMiEV yet.

Wayne

With 33,000+ posts I guess you get to know everone on a first name basis. But just for the novices, could you include Dan's member name, what you see on the screen: I'm looking up/down the pages trying to sort out who you might be responding to, but lost, LOL. Or just use the quote button?

Right Lane Cruiser
01-28-2012, 10:46 AM
Mendel, he's speaking to WriConsult.

Mendel Leisk
01-29-2012, 08:48 AM
Mendel, he's speaking to WriConsult.

Immediately above, doh! Thanks. :)



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