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View Full Version : When did GM go to tiny 11 tooth starters-Suburban etc


phoebeisis
12-17-2011, 03:30 PM
Does anyone know when GM Chevrolet went to the really tiny 11 and maybe 10 tooth starters in their trucks

I have a 98 Suburban
Bought a starter- new cheapo ebay-for $59
According to seller-and other ebay sellers-the 98 Suburbans 5.7 take this 11 tooth starter.
Mine certainly doesn't
It has 9 teeth-AND IT IS MUCH BIGGER DIAMETER-and the flange where it goes into the bell housing is different.
I actually now have 2 WRONG STARTERS- one beautiful all but new REMY(delco) starter and the cheapo chinese one.$125 in wrong starters-yeah-I'm broke trying to save a $$-sometimes you gamble when you are broke-and you lose.
Now I will be able to sell both starters eventually-especially the OEM one-get some/most of my $$ back

Also-I can't find a rebuild kit for my 98 -or just a replacement brush set??
Are they no longer DIY rebuildable??
Help-where are rebuild kits-where can I find out when the switch to tiny starters was done??-gotta know what these fit so I can sell them-a few sources say they fit mine-and the 7.4
Charlie
PS Just figured out the 11 tooth tiny starters have a reduction gear-the 9 tooth larger ones are direct drive-NOW I STILL DON'T KNOW IF THEY INTERCHANGE-ANYONE OUT THERE KNOW??

08EscapeHybrid
12-18-2011, 12:05 AM
I've never replaced the starter in my 98 K1500, but the starter in my 2000 GMC 1 ton is the tiny one.

phoebeisis
12-18-2011, 07:00 AM
Escape
Since I see online parts sellers indicate both starters for my C1500 1998- my guess is it was roughly 1998
Maybe GM phased them in about 1998 but had to "use up" the direct drive starters?/
If the weather improves today I'll pull mine-AGAIN-and compare them.
My memory says the teeth didn't have the same spacing- but I need to measure them.
The hole in the firewall is a bit bigger than it needs to be-so "stuff" will be able to splash in if the reduction starter is used on mine.
Hard to believe that GM would make two completely different flywheels(if teeth different spacings)and two different bell housing covers-and 2 different starters for the same model year- but maybe they did??
Charlie

08EscapeHybrid
12-18-2011, 09:32 AM
I had a similar problem on my old 74 Chevy C-10. Starter went bad, went to the parts store, bought a starter for a 74 C-10, and it didn't fit. Had to bring the old one in and they matched it up. There are instances where early models in a particular model year "used up" leftover parts inventory from the previous model year. This may be the case.

phoebeisis
12-18-2011, 12:22 PM
I will pull it again this week-probably won't be many jobs because the students taking final and teachers tend to not call in right before or during exams( sub teach Jefferson parish)
I'll have plenty of time on my hands- weather has to help of course
I'll pull it-examine gear-check tooth spacing- take my old one apart to see if any obvious wear etc
Thanks
Charlie

phoebeisis
12-25-2011, 11:08 AM
A while back I posted asking if you can just put one of those tiny reduction drive starters in a 1998 Suburban 5.7 1500 2wd
if it originally came with a direct drive starter.
Through dumbness lack of knowledge cheapness brokeness trying to save a $$ ness
I ended up with TWO YES TWO "WRONG" starters.I had a direct drive ended up with two tiny reduction drive starters.
I found this out when I pulled mine and immediately noticed it was HUGE next to the new(and used) starters
Even worse the DD had a 9 tooth gear the RD had a 11 tooth gear.
I just put the old starter back in and hunted here-and other places for the answer.
Well the answer is GM used BOTH STARTERS in the same models same years!!??
Yeah it seemed odd to me, but that is it!
Not sure why- pretty sure it was for more than one year(1998)-so not as if they had to use up the old starters but maybe I am wrong about that.

Well back to can you switch.
Yes-direct bolt in.
But there was 2 curve balls.
1)My starter cable was TOO SHORT-ABOUT 1/2 inch too short.There was no way to just pull it very hard put eyelet over stud- and screw nut on-just couldn't do it-AND IT WOULD HAVE BEEN PRESSING ON A BRAKE LINE- bad idea all around.

I finally took off one of the hold down "cable directors" off-the 1st one you come to from the battery-holds cables to top of fame rail I think- Downside of this- biggish downside-it now is just 1/2-3/4 inch from the exhaust manifold.I won't leave it like this-hunting for a longer cable-maybe I will make one??What gauge is that wire-it is REALLY HEAVY-maybe 1.8" to 3/16" of multistrand copper wire- really really heavy! It is also heat insulated with aluminum "foil" and some sort of now
crunchy brittle insulation.

2) The old heat shield doesn't fit-too loose-so I left it off.This is also a big downside-the starter will fail early if it is getting cooked. I'll modify adapt the old shield soon- before the summer-Most of my trips are very short-6 miles-so no big deal until then-and I only drive maybe 60 miles/week.

So they do interchange-starts just fine-not chewing up the flywheel-
I did carefully look at the 9 and 11 tooth gears- tooth spacing exactly the same-about 8.5mm between points of teeth.
Did look at how far the gears would be from where they were mounted on both starters- exactly the same in both dimensions-the mounting depth and length is exactly the same.
Now the newer mini starters do seem to have slightly stouter mounting "holes" and the length of the mounting holes is slightly-about 1 thread- longer-so might be a good idea to use the very very slightly longer mounting bolts-1 thread longer.

Well that is it.
Probably better to just stick with whatever GM stuffed in there to begin with- but if you end up with a "ministarter" for some reason it will fit and work.
Weights
Direct Drive weighed 13 3/4 lbs
Reduction drive weighed 7 7/8 lbs
6 lbs heavier-almost twice as heavy.
The new starter does sound slightly different-just different-doesn't seem to spin the motor any faster or slower-
Luck-
Charlie
PS For hypermilers ther might be an advantage to switching
6 lbs saved- 6 lbs is 6 lbs!! .1% weight reduction
The mini starters might be easier on the battery-so a big deal for motor off gliders. Not sure if this is actually true but I'll repeat it anyway-sounds plausible.
Charlie



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