Archives

Im moving to alaska in a few months and am tryign to figure out what to get! My truck will not work out up there.. I used to drive it in the winter in NH and it was horrid in snow. I plan on doing some light offroading (hunting, fishing, towing snowmobiles to trails etc), so I have to have a 4wd.

Any suggestions on what to get? I've looked at a range of vehicles. Does anyone have some experience on here with some larger suvs/trucks? I'm avging about 15mpg with my truck back/forth to work with stop signs and traffic!

I"ve looked at suburbans/tahoes (and gmc equivalent), ford expeditions (excursions are out, as it looks like the 5.4 is as well cuz it gets horrid mileage), dodge rams/durangos/dakotas

Any suggetsions/tips/help? I wont be towing anything heavier than a snowmobile trailer with 2 sleds on it so I dont need anything serious.

Thanks in advance

Can someone please change the topic by subtracting 'fullsize' please

New or used, why full size would a 4wd Escape or a Rav4 do the job ?

im buying used. Rav4 I dont fit in, not sure on towing capacity of escape but I doubt they are in my price range.

my old man is a car dealer, hecan get me pretty good deals tho. he just picked up a 01 expedition i can buy from him for $1500.

What about a Subaru wagon?

can u tow a couple snowmobiles with it? I need to go sit in one as well, not sure I would fit well! I need to be comfortable lol. Gotta drive it 5k miles to alaska haha. I know they are AWD as well but would they handle some types of off-roading etc?

Im 6ft 3, 240lbs and I'll be bringing my 90lb husky along as well so interior size is definitely a factor in my decision!!

We love our Subaru, and I think it's rated for 3500lbs towing. We average 27 mpg. Heated seats!!!!

Thats a possibility, little harder to get one of those cheap as the imports usually bring a lot more $! I will def. look into it tho.

looks like i got a pretty good deal on a 03 mercury mountaineer v8 awd

If you can afford a new vehicle, the new Ford F150 with the Ecoboost engine is supposed to get amazing mileage. If I remember correctly its EPA rated for 27 MPG.

If you can afford a new vehicle, the new Ford F150 with the Ecoboost engine is supposed to get amazing mileage. If I remember correctly its EPA rated for 27 MPG.

http://fueleconomy.gov/m/GetData.jsp?id=null,32124

17 mpg combined.

no way can I do a new vehicle lol. im lookin to spend less than 5k.

I was just talking about them with a friend that works for Ford. I'll have to find out exactly which model was supposed to get that mileage.

maybe a 2wd reg cab short bed? 4wd club cab is gonna lose a lil mpg from theweight etc.

think the mountaineer fell through! so im still lookin around for a vehiclew ith good reliablilty and good mpg. anything better mpg wise than my ram will make me happy to be honest.

Yeah, my 4wd extended cab pickup weighs 3 tons.

Hmmm, the 96-99 GM 1/2 tons- pickups suburbans-get better FE(5.7) than the equivalent Ford-AND MUCH MUCH better FE than the equivalent Dodge.
Suburban- length vehicles can carry 4X8 material flat in the back- Explorer Expedition,Yukon,Tahoe length vehicles can't- but they still have the same FE penalty.
Excursions get horrendous FE(even the diesels) and they have a HORRIBLE RIDE- not as easy to get parts either.
In Alaska many folks have camper tops on their pickups-snow- so why not get a 8" "bed" covered pickup-a Suburban
A 150,000 mile 98 Suburban 4x4 will sell for maybe $4500 if it was PRISTINE looking with recently -documented- AT rebuild and maybe AC replace.rebuild also.
In general 1996-1998 Suburbans-and pickups 4x4 sell for $2500-$3000 in average condition with 180,000 miles or so.
Obviously avoid those MIDWEST and NE rust buckets- Texas is a good place to buy Suburbans/pickups- very little rust.
Parts for GMs are relatively cheap and EXTREMELY available.They are REASONABLY easy to work on.
Many older trucks are reliable- probably survivor bias-trucks that had the good luck to get the good QC and parts just last longer than the lemon.Besides usually the factory mistakes have been repaired on 13 yo vehicles- if they are still running.
The QC wasn't good for any of the big 3 in the 90's- but in generally the drivetrains of the GMs are reliable-and the FE is a bit better than the Fords.

A 2000 on GM will cost maybe $2500 more than the 96-99-BUT THE 2000-2001 5.3 is rated EPA- about the same as the 98-99 12/17 2wd.
The 2000 on do have BETTER BRAKES- 2002(maybe $7000) on you start seeing significantly better FE-2004(maybe $10,000) are rated 2 mpg better CITY- 2007 2MPG better city 3 MPG HY
But a 2007 will be $20000+

Yeah get a 1998 or so Chevrolet/GM 1/2 ton Suburban-cheap to buy and reasonably -reliable.Your dad can find you a good one for $2500 or so- near perfect looking well maintained for under $3000-$4000-lotta affluent soccer moms bought them-so they saw very light duty-rarely or never towed-kept pretty looking-dealer maintained-I've never seen anyone try to sell even the best one for more than $5000-so your dad's price will be much lower-they have close to ZERO actual trade in valve in most of the country.
Charlie
PS the 4 cyl Four Runners of that vintage will get maybe 50% better FE if you want a smaller vehicle-the V-6 had occasional engine problems-same story on the other Japanese small pickups-they were still small vehicles in the 90's-the 4 cyl versions are adequate and get much better FE than any 1/2 ton.

Thank you phoebeisis!! Im was approaching the same conclusion, tho it was with a tahoe over a suburban (either one is Fine with me lol).

My father can get Killer deals on most suburbans/tahoes/yukons etc. that roll through the lot for the reason you mentioned... everyone is scared of them cuz of fuel mileage (tho it isnt that bad considering IMO and probably easily overachieved with light effort).

The mountaineer was a pretty good deal at 2900$ (03, v8, fully loaded, awd, perfect condition) but you win some u lose some!! The expedition was a 2001 5.4 (horrible FE lol) 4x4, but I could have gotten it for 1300$ which was why I was considering it (ran/drove great too).

Im expecting I will get a 2002+ tahoe/yukon/suburban for around 2500-3500 so thats waht Im shooting for for a full size. I'd be ok with a durango as well (I like those things a lot).

Good condition older japanese vehicles are hard to come by, they had a lot of issues with rust lol. Plus if they Are nice, they bring a LOT of money haha. But i've got my eyes on the lookout for one of those too!

Thanks for the input!

Yeah if you can get the 2002 for $3500-GREAT!! The usual asking price for a 2002 is maybe $7000.
The 2002 have MUCH BETTER brakes than thr 96-99-and the 2002 5.3FE is at least 1 mpg better city-maybe 8% better than the 5.7's.Some of the early 5.3 have a piston slap type noise- it doesn't effect reliability- but it drives down resale-a good thing if you are a buyer.It isn't actually from wear-not really a problem except when you are a seller.
Yeah for that price- easy choice- better brakes of the 2000 on is a big plus-Tahoe is a somewhat handier size for garages etc.
Charlie

Dealer auctions are a great place for me lol. If i had had the money he was going to pick me up a 06 suburban LT 4wd with 60k miles for 7k.

Good to know on the mpg year range etc. btw I appreciate it!

Yip, tahoes are a lil smaller and easier to park lol, but Im a beggar haha so I cant be too picky!

You might look for an Explorer or Explorer Sportrak with the V-6 and AWD. My wife drives a Sportrak, she does not hypermile but her fcd is usually over 18 mpg. Hers is an '07, which you won't find in your price range, but the older Explorers seem to go cheap. Explorers have that whole reputation for doing back-flips, so make sure to put a little air in the tires.

Older Toyota pick-ups can be had with 4wd and the 2.2 four cylinder. Plenty of pulling power, decent mileage, and they hold their resale value. The hard part is finding one which hasn't been modified for severe off road use.

Kirk

That is true, there is no trade in value. My 1/2 ton 4x4 is a 98 GMC. The 350 is a solid motor, even with 180,000 miles it runs so smooth and quiet that from 10 feet away you can't hear it idling. I decided to buy the Escape, and keep the GMC as a beater since its cheap to insure, and I won't get anything for selling it. Fuel economy is pretty good (considering), for a 3 ton 4x4 I usually get 18-19 highway and 13-14 city. With 4wd active in the snow I usually get 9-11. My last road trip I took in it I averaged 16 MPG, and that was with the cruise set on 70 MPH with my motorcycle (almost 1,000 pounds) strapped down in the bed.

$7000 for a 2006 4x4 LT 60,000 MILES- normal asking price would be about $14000+
2006 is the last year where the 2nd row actually lays flat(so you can carry stuff flat, or sleep on a flat surface if you sleep/car camp/ rest stop sleep in it-they are great "save motel sleep at rest stop travel vehicles" )

08Escape- right the 350/5.7 is very reliable and the GM trans-4l60e of that vintage makes motor on P&G very simple- just lift in D and it has ZERO engine braking until it downshifts at about 23mph. He'll get 20 mph hy with no problem-and 15 mpg city(once warm)Motor block heater is a must in Alaska-helps mpg also
Charlie

yea, i thought it was a pretty crazy good deal... wish I could afford it haha!

good to know on the 2nd row laying flat, cuz I plan on doing exactly that with it at times.

so you are saying the older 350 v8 would be better than the 5.3 for mpg by doing P&G with the older trans? Im pretty sure the newer 5.3 also has the 4l60e as well. Zero engine braking is good for that lol!

No-the 5.3 is better-BUT the earlier 5.3's were rated- EPA- the same as the 98,99.
But by 2002 the 5.3 was EPAed better than any 5.7.
Yes, I have read many complaints that the 2nd row on 2007 on won't lay quite flat.
Haven't checked it myself- but probably true since I read it many times.
2WD Suburbans
98 12/17 5.7
2000 12/17 5.3
2002 13/17 5.3
2004 14/18 5.3
2011 14/21 5.3 (might ACTUALLY BE 20 MPG HY- not dead sure)
In general 4x4 is 1 mpg down vs 2wd- until very recently when 4x4 and 4x2 the same


It is the same trans-some 4l60E varient-same zero engine braking -glides great- maybe 3-4 seconds per mph-35 to 28 mph will take 30 seconds and you'll travel 1/4 mile or so-
One P&G cycle will be about 1/4 mile or so-in the city you rarely do more than 2 cycles
The 5.3 is DEFINITELY BETTER !!

Charlie

That's because after a couple of years GM put cylinder deactivation on the 5.3. Basically, when on the highway when very low torque is needed, the computer will deactivate cylinders.

I lived in Anchorage 6 years. Owned an IHC Scout II 4X4 w/304 ci V-8, a Datsun pickup and a Datsun B210 (both RWD). Wife & I much preferred the Datsuns in the snow, because the 4500 lb. Scout had too much momentum/inertia to bleed off quickly.

If I were to move back, I'd get a Jeep Wrangler. Short wheelbase is a major advantage off-road. Suburbans, Tahoes, and similar sized 4X4s are jokes off-road. Park them on the side of the highway and ride your ATV in. Sounds to me like you don't need 4WD at all.

thank you for the sumup phoeb!!

I wont be able afford anything new enough to have the low lying seat problem.

Not sure what you are saying sentra... I dont fit in anything small. its one of the reasons I want a larger vehicle. I also dont like wranglers, they are too small/awkward and it would SUCK to drive that 5000 miles with my dog as well, and possibly 1 or 2 passengers (friends goin on the road trip). Nor can I get them 'cheaply' without major malfunctions.

4wd will be necessary, a 2wd wont function in some of the places I will be going towing a trailer. I've done 2wd winter towing, it sucks. I will be Living in anchorage, I def. wont be stickin there, and on top of that I will be driving there in the winter through canada etc.

Bring enough sleeping bags to survive -60 degree Fahrenheit temps if you plant it in a snowbank on the Alcan at night. You definitely want a reliable vehicle first and foremost.

Economics work in your favor to get a big FSP 4WD for a great price, so good. I'm just saying for off-roading and fuel economy, smaller is better.

Our dogs- Phoebe,Isis and Arty-current one- love/loved the Suburban
It is a great road trip camping vehicle-really comfortable.Save $$ on motels-sleep in it.
The front seat of the Suburban is VERY COMFORTABLE- lots of room to move this way and that on long hy trips.The foam is a bit too soft, but the shape and side room are great.
Even my cheapo LS has a power seat with lots of adjustability.

Our dog-Arty-greyhound-doesn't have thick fur, so she occasionally wears a sweater at night(we turn the heater off- but NOLA isn't very coold anyway).Maybe you can get your dog a sweater-A FLA dog is going to take a while to develope a thicker coat.


Maybe you should make sure you have a second battery-many Suburbans already have a place for a second battery in the engine bay?You just need a bit of wiring harness.

Yea, thats in the plans... along with survival gear/shovel/chains etc.

I wont be doing 'serious' offroading. For that something smaller/nimble would indeed be much better no doubt.

Im a mechanic as well, pretty confident in overall reliability of chevy's in general... tho not all haha.

I've had a few suburbans, always been very comfortable and I take up a lot of space lol.

I have a siberian husky, he will be Just fine hahaha. He sheds year round down here, and hates it lol.

We drove up the Alcan (in Summer) before it was paved. We were at a gas station near Haines Junction when a guy came in. He'd hitched a ride from his broken car 50 miles up the road, carrying his broken mechanical fuel pump. The attendant told him he could order a mechanical pump from Whitehorse or Dawson Creek & it would be there in a couple of days, or he could sell him a block-off plate & an electric fuel pump now. He opted for the electric fuel pump.

Gas stations & lodges were ~50 miles apart. We were low on gas near the Alaskan border, but thought we'd wait & tank up on the Alaskan side. Well, the next station was sold out, and the station after that had burned down. I had to empty one of our 5 gallon gas cans to make it to the next station. That was life on the Alcan 35 years ago. I'll bet it hasn't changed much.

You've ordered your copy of The Milepost, right?

Yikes, sounds like a scary trip haha!

not yet, I will pick it up when it gets closer to time to go. I have 5 months before I leave. Plenty of time to plan. I also plan on having 3 or 4 5gallon gas tanks as well.

1) Husky huh!!Guess we know how Fido is voting on this move-no sweater required for him!
You probably have to get some sort of "paperwork" to bring him into Canada.

2) I wonder if you can carry "guns" on the ALCAN?? Not that the wildlife is any concern-strictly for the 2 legged predators-Canada is probably pretty safe.

3)I think the 2000's on have 40 gallon tanks?? My 1998 has a 44 gallon tank and I have literally gone 900 miles between fillups.
Driving 55-60 mph-smooth level hy-no mountains- you'll have a gas range much greater than bladder range-human or dog.

4)If possible get a receiver hitch basket-for those gas "cans" maybe.The aluminum ones are a lot lighter-easier to handle,save weight-cost a few $$ more.They do make the barn doors tough to access but the side doors are plenty wide.
5)Avoid putting anything on the roof- it will absolutely KILL MPG-.Our 2003 Honda Pilot got 15.9 mpg on the same long trips the Suburban gets 21 mpg-all because of a roof basket.The Pilot would have gotten 24 mpg without the roof basket.

6)Mechanic-then you already know the GM drivetrains are usually pretty reliable-maybe intake manifold gaskets being the exception.
The latest Fel Pro super duper gaskets sets are supposed to finally cure that problem-maybe GMs latest do the same.

7)I might carry some sort of U- shaped bypass hose plus fittings just in case the heater hoses/core/fittings decide to let go.Looks like plenty of U-type hoses available on ebay for under $10 delivered. I think one side is 5/8 the other is 3/4" ID on my 98.
Luck-keep us posted
Charlie
PS Sister in law/Bro in law (ones I like) live in Wasilla-40 milesoutside Anchorage-they love it despite her being a S California native.

Everything you need to know about dogs, guns, lodge/gas locations, etc. is in The Milepost, the Bible for Alcan travelers. No one should make that move without The Milepost, a sheepherder's jack, chains, a come-along, 2 or 3 12" X 12" X 3/4" plywood jacking platforms a spare serpentine belt, etc.

Canada restricts "short arms," handguns & rifles/shotguns with 18" or shorter barrels. US citizens were allowed to transport them through western Canada in 1977 when I moved up. But (possibly because of an incident I was involved in) Canada revoked that privilege by the time I moved out. I had to ship our short arms to the lower 48 via FFL dealers.

Oh, now that begs an explanation... that whole incident you may have been involved in ;).

RIGHT!! Darrell-You can't leave it at that!

The Milepost sounds like a good idea.It is maybe 3000 or so miles from the USA border to Anchorage, right?? Lotta "middle of nowhere"

Well, since you asked ;). We moved up in late May. The Going to the Sun road through Glacier NP was still closed, so I decided to enter Canada east of the park, through Carway, AB.

I put my short arms on the counter for Canadian Customs inspection. About then, they received a radio report that some car thieves might be headed their way from Montana.. Not a minute later, they dropped the gate, set off a siren, and a car crashed through the gate. The car made it a mile up the road, crashed into a ditch, and three car thieves ran into the surrounding wheat fields.

Canadian Customs were on the radio with the RCMP, who had to drive down from Cardston, about 25 km away. Of course, my family overheard the conversation, during which the unarmed Canadian Customs officials told the Mounties a couple of times they were thankful the car thieves didn't have my guns, which were still on the counter.

Another part of the discussion was the Canadian assumption the car thieves were Americans. The Mounties arrived, drove their 4WD into the wheat field, and soon got their man, or men. About then, the American car owner came to the border checkpoint, saw the car up ahead, and asked permission to assess the damages. He said his wife had left the keys in the car when she went into the post office in Montana. Interestingly, he made the cultural assumption the crooks were Canadian, telling Canadian Customs the crooks must have been homesick Canadians.

After the excitement was over, my short arms' serial numbers recorded, the guns in a locked container under Canadian Customs seal, we drove on up the road past the crashed car, the Montana farmer's pickup, the RCMP 4X4, the mounties and the three international criminals. They're probably out of jail now, but it wouldn't surprise me if they spent a large portion of the past 34 years in jail after grand theft auto, international smuggling of a stolen vehicle, illegal border crossing, evading arrest, etc.

Anyway, I'm sure the incident report mentioned the danger to Canadians from illegal short arms in the hands of Americans. Short arms were already illegal in eastern Canada, and the Alaskan transportation loophole was waiting for the Darrell L incident to seal the gap. Canada sealed the gap before I left Alaska.

Interesting story.
For a second I thought you were going to say the unarmed Mounties grabed your guns and hosed down the perps

I'm guessing their must be plenty of armed cops at border crossings now.
Thanks
Charlie

Are you any closer to picking a vehicle yet, CarrMann?

Not yet rightlane!! Waitin for the 'right' deal to pop up etc.

1) Husky huh!!Guess we know how Fido is voting on this move-no sweater required for him! You probably have to get some sort of "paperwork" to bring him into Canada.
Im assuming that health papers from the vet etc will be fine... he voted for it for sure tho he doenst know it! He was born/raised here in FL so he hasnt ever really experienced cold, and def. no snow.

2) I wonder if you can carry "guns" on the ALCAN?? Not that the wildlife is any concern-strictly for the 2 legged predators-Canada is probably pretty safe.
Im pretty sure rifles are ok, which means my .30 will do just fine

3)I think the 2000's on have 40 gallon tanks?? My 1998 has a 44 gallon tank and I have literally gone 900 miles between fillups.
Driving 55-60 mph-smooth level hy-no mountains- you'll have a gas range much greater than bladder range-human or dog.
Yikes! Thats even bigger than my rams tank haha.

4)If possible get a receiver hitch basket-for those gas "cans" maybe.The aluminum ones are a lot lighter-easier to handle,save weight-cost a few $$ more.They do make the barn doors tough to access but the side doors are plenty wide.
Not sure if I have a sub/tahoe if I will have doors or a gate, but I was def. already looking into those carrier baskets
5)Avoid putting anything on the roof- it will absolutely KILL MPG-.Our 2003 Honda Pilot got 15.9 mpg on the same long trips the Suburban gets 21 mpg-all because of a roof basket.The Pilot would have gotten 24 mpg without the roof basket.
nope, nothin on the roof for sure lol

6)Mechanic-then you already know the GM drivetrains are usually pretty reliable-maybe intake manifold gaskets being the exception.The latest Fel Pro super duper gaskets sets are supposed to finally cure that problem-maybe GMs latest do the same.|
Whenever I get 'the' vehicle whatever it is, I will def. be looking into parts that may fail on the trip and try to bring them and the tools needed to fix it with me.


Luck-keep us posted
Charlie
PS Sister in law/Bro in law (ones I like) live in Wasilla-40 milesoutside Anchorage-they love it despite her being a S California native.

Thanks man! Im incredibly excited and ready for it. I wish I could get the orders pushed forward so i could leave sooner, though that would mean hitting the ALCAN sooner which may be a bad idea lol.

Yeah Suburbans have HUGE tanks- NOT SURE IF THE TAHOE HAS THE SAME huge TANK.
When I bought my 1998 -4.5 years ago 195,000 miles $2900- it was on E. I drove it to the gas station-expecting a 30 gallon tank-maybe needing 27 gallons which would have been $80 at $2.89.Well 38.5 gallons $112 later I was stunned!!
They have stunning range when driven at 55- 60 mph.

I would make sure I had some way to bypass the heater system-maybe some adaptors(the hoses have different inside diameters on mine- 3/4 and 5/8").I had a Y fitting literally turn to plastic grit when it cracked and I had to replace it). Heater cores also seem to leak in the 10-15 year range.You won't be able to get water to half ass a duct tape slow the leak repair out there"
Yeah I carry that heavy duty duct tape- you never know.

Your vehicle will be 4-6 years newer-so probably no problem.

Yeah a 308 30 06 30/30 bolt or lever is plenty of "dissuasion" ( sic )


40 gallons should safely carry you 600 miles with 50-100 in reserve on slightly hilly terrain.A nice smooth sea level hy 55-60 mph would get you 17-19 mpg with the 4x4-assuming 15% ethanol and relatively mild tread-more aggresssive tread will hurt a bit and make it REALLY NOISY- no need for that on concrete asphalt or gravel.Of course most folks just use the tires a used vehicle comes with-considering a set of 4 tires is maybe $900 installed now.

Good luck- keep us posted on your adventure.The Husky will love the cold weather despite being a Fla dog-he will be "hot/happy/very active" once he feels the cold.
Charlie

Looks like the newer ones only have smaller tanks! Unless maybe on the 3/4 tons which I wont be getting lol.

Once i get a vehicle I will start looking into all the 'extra' parts I need to care of for just in case etc. lol.

I'll probably have a 12gauge as well as the .30/.30 and maybe a .300 as well.

The mercury mountainer is still a def. possibility.

I wish I could head there sooner, but its not in the cards sadly! Im extremely excited for this trip.

I appreciate all the input!

08Escape- right the 350/5.7 is very reliable and the GM trans-4l60e of that vintage makes motor on P&G very simple- just lift in D and it has ZERO engine braking until it downshifts at about 23mph. He'll get 20 mph hy with no problem-and 15 mpg city(once warm)Motor block heater is a must in Alaska-helps mpg also
Charlie[/QUOTE]

Watch the 2500s in that year range. Iirc they made 2 2500 models (at least they did with the vans and I thought the trucks/suvs too). The light duty came with the 4L60. The 'heavy duty' still has the 5.7 but 4L80, and higher gross weight rating. Not sure, but more towing capacity too?

And yea, my van seems to coast forever just taking foot of the pedal.



Edit - getting your dog into and out of Canada you just need the rabies certification from your vet. The tag on collar doesNOT do the trick. It must be the paper certification from vet. They must also 'appear' healthy. I almost always take my lab with me and have no trouble with her at the border. I'm rarely even asked to see the paperwork. My mom and aunt have taken dogs to shows in Canada and I forget if it was going in or out of Canada but they had their dog food taken from them at the border because it wasn't in the manufacturer packageing. So if you bring dog food leave it in the bag/box it came in.

Is the 4l80e not as good for mpg? I've seen a few 2500s that I'd consider, but not too sure on the 4l80e. Any input?

Dog hopefully wont be an issue. Thanks for the tip on the dog food! Thatd suck.. his 30lb bag of food is 50$ lol.

The 3/4 tons with the 5.7 are about 2 mpg down vs the 1/2 tons.
Some of the loss is due to the increased weight (of the vehicle-500 lbs or so)- but that would be mainly city driving-
and folks here generally report the 3/4 tons also are 2 mpg down hy-maybe 16-17mpg at 60 mph for a 4x4 1/2 ton vs 18-19 for the 1/2 ton 4x4 suburban.
The 3/4 tons are better tow vehicles- but if you don't tow the 1/2 ton is all you need.
They-3/4 tons usually ride a bit stiffer since they need heavier spings shocks to tow the extra wt they are rated for.
If you take your time-put your dad to work-you'll find plenty of 1/2 tons
Charlie

PS I'm not really sure why 3/4 ton Suburban drivers lose 2 mpg hy- but that is what I see on the GM truck forum.Like MAXX says below- it isn't because of the AT- might have something to do with gearing-the 3/4 tons with the 5.7 are probably geared low (not that you want the alternative a 454) .
My 1998 1/2 ton has a 3.4-not sure what the 3/4 tons usually have-3.7 or even 4.1?? The taller 1st gear in a tow vehicle means it is probably going to have a low rear end-more RPMs at 60 mph top gear.
I've never noticed the thump when lifting at the 1>2 shift point- but I never lift there-since I pulse up to 35 then lift and it just freewheels
Most folks report having the 4L60E rebuilt at 150,000- 185,000 miles with normal service-about $2000 at aamco- it isn't bitched about on the GM forum- not like the intake manifold gaskets- or the piston knock like sounds the early 5.3's make(sounds are harmless-except when you try to sell it-ha,ha)

The 4L80E is a computerized TH400 with an overdrive ratio added.

The 4L60E/4L65E/4L70E are all versions of a computerized TH700R4 (the "Chevy" auto-od, not to be confused with the BOP auto-od, which was the TH200-4R, evolved from the TH200 - itself a metric tin-foil adaption of the TH350).

Both the 4L6x and 4L80 have the same 'coast' during throttle off, and so do the three and four speed GM front drive transaxles.

The 4L80E is much heavier (40 to 80 pounds, depending on who is quoting it, and I suspect the difference is 'dry' vs 'wet'), but many TH400 internals interchange, so the basics are bulletproof.

The 4L60E has a huge ratio spread between 1st and 2nd - a virtual Grand Canyon between the two that was unseen since the Olds/Pontiac Slim Jim of the early 60s.
4L6xE - 1st 3.06, 2nd 1.625, 3rd 1.000, 4th .696, Reverse 2.294
4L80E - 1st 2.48, 2nd 1.48, 3rd 1.00, 4th 0.75, Reverse 2.08

Compare the 4L60 ratios to the neck-snapping Slim Jim (1st 2.93:1, 2nd 1.56:1, 3rd 1.00:1) and you can see why there are similarities in the way the two shift - linger in first and then sl-l-l-l-l-ide into second and the engine rpm drops by nearly half. If you lift off the throttle as it's about to shift, it will do so with a thump and the engine drops to idle and then lugs its way back up the band. That's not to say the 4L60E is 'bad', but if you test one and find the 1-2 shift is somewhat unusual, understand that it's the nature of the beast.

Efficiency? I remember reading that there was more internal power loss in the TH400 vs the TH350, and with the 4L80 based on the TH400, I tend to think that remains true.
The 4L80E has that taller first gear so it will keep engine rpms low when accelerating from a stop. The 4L60E likely has less internal power loss, but it needs to wind up in first to keep the engine from almost stalling out when it upshifts to second.

The old TH700R4 was designed for asthmatic 305s that were breathing through a Silly Straw of emissions plumbing, so they built it with lightweight parts and a first gear ratio that'd let the boat anchor V8 spin up past 3000 to get closer to the hp peak. The TH400 was designed for the old big blocks - low rpm and frame-twisting torque at 1800rpm - so its ratio spread is somewhat narrow. This narrow spread is better for fuel economy if you're easy on the pedal because the engine will upshift at very low rpm. Although the 4L80E is heavier, the added weight isn't much compared to a half or 3/4 ton truck.

good to know about the mpg diff thankes phoebe!

wow maxx. Way more information then I needed but a GREAT read. Thank you for that!

I think I'll stick to the 1/2 ton.. the most I will be towing is a snowmobile/atv trailer... maybe a rare car but nothing requiring a 4wd. I was just curious, because I didnt think they would have a mpg difference. However.. lower gearing is a good point lol, Im sure they do indeed have lower gearing.

My old man has already found me plenty of 1/2 tons. Yesterday he called me about a cherry 02 yukon xl LT with 180k for 3500$. However it had the autoride suspension, which Im a little leary of as its expensive to fix. I think I would prefer a tahoe, but we will see! Im not very picky.

carrman
$3500-good price for a vehicle that sold for $40,000 or more in 2002-

I've heard of $4000 repair bills on those autoride systems.
Maybe MAXX would know- is there any simple way to just strip the autoride crap off and just put decent shocks on-maybe $250-$300 for new Bilsteins.
I hope it doesn't have some sort of airbag springs.
MAXX-any idea on that??

MAXX I tried to get the thump shift 1>2 couldn't get it. I might not be lifting at just the right time.Any chance GM dialed it out by 1998?

The 305 -what a pitiful POJ that was!
Charlie

Charlie,

If you're talking about that MagneRide system, I'm not sure if you can run without the special shocks without tripping a Cxxxx or Uxxxx OBD code. It wouldn't cause the CEL to light but if there's a "wrench" light (service required), that could pop on. Of course, it is possible that the system could ignore missing components - best to unplug all four and drive the truck and see what happens. I believe standard shocks can bolt in place of the MagneRide, but I can't say with certainty. After all, why would anyone pay $4k for service when a stock set of shocks can bolt right in and no idiot lights will glow and no codes will be set?

Re: 4L6x 1->2 shift - It is possible that they added a stiffer accumulator spring to smooth the shift no matter how urgently the computer tries to shift. What you will notice if you watch the tach is that the engine rpm will fall by almost half during the 1-2 shift. The tach leaves little doubt that 2nd gear has arrived.

I bought 4 new Bilstein OEM shocks for my 98 K1500 Z71 on sale for about $180. When you purchase Bilsteins aftermarket, they also come with a lifetime warranty, but chances are if you're already buying an older vehicle with over 150,000 miles they will probably outlast the vehicle.

Maxx
Yeah, I can't remember reading about just putting regular shocks on and saving $1000's
Maybe I'll search it.
I'll try to duplicate the thump again.It normally shifts sooooo smoothly I actually have to really "feel" for it.
08 Escape- $180 great price.I paid about $215-ebay- for Bilsteins that are one notch stiffer than OEM.Frankly I wish I had stayed with the OEMS- but I'm old-60-like the soft ride.Does handle better at hy speeds now.
On the bright side I can sling it around curves like a GIGANTIC sports car.
Charlie

From what my old man said it was closer to 50k for that one in 02, fully loaded to the hilt. Still, he thinks he can get me a better deal so he is still lookin! Hope he can! Just got divorced.. I got a limited budget lol. He has an 01 expedition right now that I could get for 2200$ but... I dont want the 5.4l v8...

I did look into it ywhen he called me about it. You can get aftermarket replacements that are about 1k with compressor but you have to install yourself... or you can get a generic regular shock but then you have to do some kind of resistors in the plugs etc. or you do get the service suspension light.

In response to that MAXX... a lot of people sling money at their car without doing any research lol. I found it all over the internet in about.. 3 minutes lol. Forums/questionaaires/walkthroughs etc. on how to bypass it, or fix it for cheap with an off-brand replacement shock/compressor setup.

Yeah, Bilstein makes 2 styles of shocks for those trucks. One is called a "comfort" rated shock, and one that's a little stiffer for heavier loads. GM puts the comfort rated shock in their trucks. I bought comfort rated shocks as I too enjoy trucks that ride like Cadillacs. Heck, even my 1 ton cargo van rides nice.

Billstein was running an online sale, and allshock.com was one of the approved vendors. I got them for 25% off.

08Escape
Yeah I slightly goofed with the stiffer shocks.A normal Suburban has a nice comfortable ride.Mine is still pretty compliant but I miss the really cushy ride.Is does handle sharp curves-on and offramps etc- at much higher speeds without the sway-the Bilsteins are very good for not much $$.

Carrmann-$50,000- not surprised-my stripper LS 2WD actually cost $30,000 in 1997-and that 2002 Yukon XL is waaaaay upscale with the updated body, engine, fancy suspension,4x4, leather probably heated seats,
So it is easy to bypass with regular shocks-who cares about a service suspension light?
$3500 is a pretty good deal since the suspension cost isn't a concern- but even better deal is even better.The 2004 got another bump up in FE
But even my 98 5.7 does ok-I just checked-at 55mph-cruise control set for 10 mile run on I-10- leaving cc on over overpasses- 24.2 mpg 55mph-
Charlie
PS-MAXX still trying to duplicate the thump-not able to yet - but tough to do in traffic-staring at tach etc

Them things DO ride extremely nice. The denali I test drove rode a lil too nice, but the suspension was that autoride or whatever and the service light was on for the suspension. I dont want a denali anyways.. moreso of a gas hog.

Yea, it was the loaded out one. Heated seats (awesome for AK haha), power everything, blah blah. I think its NADA book was right around 10k.

I wouldnt say 'easy' but yea, it can be bypassed. I think the light would annoy me... cuz the denali I test drove had the light and it beeped every now and then. Not ok on a 4600 mile drive lmfao.

Dang, thats pretty good! I dont think I can get a 04 in the price range I want (under 4k). Otherwise thats what I'd be gunnin for! I have no credit either (ex ruined it) so Im stuck payin cash, while also payin the ex wife and all her bills. Military doesnt pay enough to pay all that haha.

Yeah, the 2002 get good FE-a 4x4 2002 will get maybe .5-1 mpg less hy than my 98 2wd.
Oh damm beep also-forget that-pull the fuse or something

My sister and brother in law are on the ALCAN right now.Unfortunately they don't have their winter wheels/tires on so no night driving because of "black ice." It will take them a while.He drove down from Wasilla in late May for a mining job in Nevada-expected to be back in the late summer-job ran over.

Even with the stiff shocks and 50 psi it still rides nice-just not Caddy nice-more gigantic sporty car

Still paying the EX - that rules an Escalade out of your immediate future!!

sweet! I'd be happy with 18mpg to be honest.

Wow! Hope it works out okay for them!

I dont think i've ever ridden in a suburban that didnt ride well. If i need to buy tires.. do they make LRR tires for large suvs? Im assuming yes.. and what kind of tires are they (as in summer, all season, or winter??). I'd be fine with all seasons I think.. gonna bring chains lol

Carrmann
Not sure of low RR ties are available yet.
The OEM tires-sometimes Michelins usually P(passenger) not LT are generally pretty FE-which is why GM chooses them.
As you say- All season tires get better mpg that snow or all terrain tires.
You might get stuck with some all terain tires depending on the PO.
All Season with chains should work fine to get you there.
You will probably want snow tires once you actually get to Alaska.
Most folks just get a second set of wheels/tires
Cheapo steel wheels with the snow tires-store them in the garage or apt if it come to it.

Maxx I've been keeping an eye on my tach-
1> 2 pulsing and gliding from a stop 2100> 1600 This is with maybe 1/4 throttle- not hard acceleration..
The rest of the shifts at small throttle openings are similar-300 400 rpm drops.
3>4 happens about 39mph.
It is a very soft shifter-at low throttle openings-also has LOADS of torque and great throttle response everywhere
Maybe I'll try full power and see what happens Have to do it on the interstate.
Charlie
PS I wonder what the stall speed is for that converter? At the low RPMs-under 2100 usually-I use in city-and hy- driving there is certainly lots of effective "variable gearing" built right into it. Despite that it get surprisingly good mpg in city driving.
I get 17.5 mpg on a 5 mile trip I frequently take (home from a local parish school I sub at.)
I'm too chicken to actually floor it to see how it handles a full throtte 5000rpm shift.
An article I read said it was rated for 360 ft lbs-it did mention that the 4L60Es were strenghtened somewhat in 2002-and soon after they were strengthened/updated to the 4L65E.
In any case they are know to be reliable in normal service-but less reliable when used with stroked motors or Nitrous or anything else that increases peak torque
Most folks report rebuilds at over 150,000 miles or so-many folks use them for light towing without problems-smallish boats landscaping trailers pop up tents smallish travel trailers.
In gereral there isn't much bitching on GM truck forums about inherent defects in the design of 1996-2006 Suburbans-just the intake manifold gaskets(latest Fel Pro kit-$70-supposed to resolve the problem-worked on mine for last 10,000 miles)-probably smart to not use the 100,000 mile interval for coolant change

phoebeisis:
Good to know! I'll look once i get a rig lol.
Im pretty sure I'll do okay with just all seasons, survived 4 winters in NH with various cars with summer tires lol (didnt have money for extra tires..)
If it isnt sufficient I'll pick up cheapo wheels/winter tires as you suggested lol.

I wish I could pull 17mpg out of my ram.. but with the horrible stop go from here to base, and the 10mins of stop/go to get on base, and then all the stop signs its super hard to get anything resembling good mileage... i only avg about 13-14mpg on the way to work cuz of traffic/wrecks etc.

Ha,ha-
Like you say- zero chance of getting 17 mpg from any older 3/4 ton Dodge with a spark ignition motor.
My bother still has his 1995 2wd Ram 1/2 ton- either 318 or 360 V-8(can't remember which)- he gets 14 mpg driving from Enterprise Ala(Ft Rucker) to New Orleans.Of course he drives 70+ mph.

a 1/2 ton 4x4 Suburban 5.3 -will be 3- mpg better than that older 3/4 ton gasoline Ram.
It is a shame Dodge is in such poor shape for the future.
Getting 13-14 mpg in stop and go with that 1997 Ram is WAAAAY better than average.
Most folks would be in single digits with that beast.
You'll be pretty happy with a Suburban/Tahoe/Yukon 5.3
My 1998 5.7 is good, but brakes are much better 2000 on-much better.
Charlie

pretty much lol.. and its even a 2wd! Sadly it has 4.10 gears, which obviously hurts the mpg some too. I try most of the tricks with the hypermiling... it helps a lot. I used to be happy when I got over 12mpg. Hypermiling techniques have helped it out a TON! On a steady trip, I get between 16-17mpg driving very conservatively (but the speed limit). Its a good truck tho, has always been faithful/great vehicle. Awesome tow vehicle... I used to tow a 10000lb enclosed car trailer through the mountains with it.

I'm lookin forward to gettin somethin that gets better fuel mileage tho lol.. will be nice!

2000 on has better brakes? thats good to know as well. I sitll might end up with the 03 v8 mountaineer, my old man says its a super nice truck... tho not as roomy as the tahoe/suburban obviously. Rated for better mpg highway too...

Right-when the 2000 body redesign was done they put in much better brakes and the 5.3.

Ford had gotten slightly better QC by early 2000's- but they really got better 2005-2006 quality control wise.
The mountaineer is a Mercury Explorer or Expedition clone??
Not sure that those Fords will glide in D the way the GM trucks do.It makes a huge difference-the GM trans just freewheel in D when you lift-just as if you are in N. It makes decent city FE very easy since I don't do any motor off gliding(waaaay too tricky for me with a large truck).

I'm a GM fan now obviously- but the Fords of that vintage were of reasonable quality- not quite as easy to get parts for- but pretty easy.Probably mainly interchange with the pickups-zillion of them around.

Your dad is a vehicle expert- but he focuses on value-how good a deal it is-
He knows folks buy with their eyes-good sheetmetal ,paint, good interior condition.
You'll do OK either way- but the GMs do have that Glide in D advantage-really makes city P&G a cinch-no funbling with gearshift-hoping you dodn't accidently put it in R!
Charlie
PS Oh well-off to work-

Gotcha, excellent info there! I was considering late 90s ones for cheapppp.

The mountaineer is a mercury explorer. This one has the 4.6l v8, and a 5spd auto. 18mpg highway rating from epa. Not sure on the glide myself either. I test drove a v6 one same year and managed to get about 22mpg avg pokin around town with it, with its built in 'avg' mpg monitor.

I would prefer a gm over a ford myself... but Im a beggar so I cant be too picky lol. Cheap parts are nice too, and I do my own work haha.

Yea, my old man isnt much of a 'technical' problems expert. Not a mechanic in other words. He can tell if there are major issues, check engine light, running rough, and visible damage of any type.

Not too worried about puttin it in R on accident tho lol... I've got a ton of driving experience from the car biz... im pretty comfortable in anything with an engine.

Mine is a 1998 217,600 miles- I bought it with 195,500 - no problems- never left me on the road.Heck I drove it to Flagstaff and back-3000 miles-with a radiator leak-it would just drop to just below the leak-and quit leaking-hardly lost any vapor-strange but good.
It is really an owner proof vehicle-just change oil- trans fluid every 30,000-coolant every 50,000 or 3 years(supposed to be 100,000 miles, but seems like a bad idea)-changed diff lube to 75w140 Mobil 1 syn
I did replace
radiator
water pump
intake gaskets
timing chain sprockets-didn't need it-zero visible wear
brake booster
shocks
repaired the windshield reservoir-leak/crack
belt tensioner
front sway bar bracket
both front inside door handles-pop rivet in place-cheapo each $15 new ebay-"pot" metal castings eventually break- but last longer than plastic
All in all $1000 in parts-most new-some autozone rebuilds
You would do just fine with a 96-99- very reliable-very very cheap
But as always buy the absolute BEST you can afford(recent AT rebuild is a plus)
The brakes aren't horrible-just not great-I find cheapo brake pads work best-the ones that leave dust cost maybe $15 per set at any autoparts store.

You can probably get a late 90's for really really cheap-the usual retail asking price is maybe $3500- private sale maybe $3000
Your dad might find you a really nice one for $2000-$2500.
Always buy the absolute best you can afford-the one that needs the least work.
I learned the hard(mainly with motorcycles) way to not buy "projects" just because they were cheap.Course I was a slow learner- probably bought 20 "runs good" $500 POS.
You could end up with a very nice truck-and great deal if you buy the best 97-99 your dad can find!
Normally the " best" would retail for $5000-and be worth every penny since it would be well maintained ,good paint, few dents, and need practically nothing.
You won't be paying retail.
Yeah beggars can't be choosers.I bought my 1998 in 2007 with 195,500 miles because we were worse than broke and had to sell a 2003 Pilot- it went for $15,500-so we pocketed $12,500-
Expected the Suburban to be a POJ- turned out to be a better travel vehicle that the Pilot-more comfortable, nice ride-and just 3 mpg down on long hy trips.Much easier cheaper to DIY work on- they are also very easy on tires-still working on the tires it can with and they were just 50% left and 20% left 22,000 miles ago-
All those parts I mentioned-barely $1000- radiator ebay- new $155-can't beat that.
Probabably the same story with the Mountaineer-Ford sold Zillions of those Explorers.
Luck
Charlie
PS Sister and brother in law still on the ALCAN- no after dark driving for them-not sure how much daylight they get-maybe 9-10 hours?

thanks for the tips of some of the maintenance. good to know. its all stuff I can easily do. I wish I had more cash to spend, a newer/nicer vehicle would obviously be my preference, plus more fuel efficient... but I'll just have to deal with what i can get. gotta take the money out of my TSP to pay for it as it is.

I've noticed the doors in some of the ones i've tried out, the 'armrests' kinda pull outword when u go to close the door. guess that is why!

I missed out on a pretty nice 99 tahoe loaded for 1100. Old man tried to snag it but another dealer nabbed it first. Bummer. lol. Seems the late 90s models tahoe/burban/yukon sell pretty cheap too.

I would prefer a quad cab truck, but their prices run a LOT higher than a suburban/tahoe/large suv. My guess is due to them being a little more utilitarian (carry family, but also be a complete work truck, etc. etc.). still on the lookout tho!

Sounds like that burban has treated you right! Cheap to maintain too! I love my truck, wish I didnt need to get rid of it. Paid 600$ for it 4-5 years ago (not sure on how long ago exactly lol) and have had very few issues with it since. Most expensive thing for it so far was tires. Rest has been cheap stuff (muffler, cat, water pump, battery, ac compressor)

Probably not makin very good progress are they? heard there was a nasty freezing rain storm in anchorage the other day, guess it really screwed up traveling conditions and melted/froze everything.

Carrmann
They finally got home-Wasilla 40 miles from Anchorage-yesterday-!.
Wow $1100 for a nice 99 Tahoe-great price!
I use my Suburban like an 8 foot bed pickup with a camper top. 98x50" flat space
-with the second row folded-taho yukon about 83x50
Bet you are right-the armrests were half assed broken when someone repaired the actual unlocking handle.
You paid just $600 for your truck-price was right!! Heck you'll get 3x that when you sell it-used pickups always sell-like you said -utilitarian.

I sometimes buy a sell bicycles ACs other appliances(make a $) and it holds washers/dryers fridges etc.
But The pickups do sell for more-Big SUVs are seen strictly as guzzlers with little utility-so they ARE DIRT CHEAP!
Charlie

oh thats good to hear!

yea... sucks I missed out lol. oh well.

I want a snowmobile lol... cant put one inside a suburban or it would be a no brainer haha.

heck yea lol. I should be able to get 3000$ for it actually. market is high here, and everyone likes 2wd and 4wd. its not seasonal. i bought it in a snowstorm in NH for 600. Lol it books for about 4500 now haha.

yip, thats exactly how i interpreted the market lol. big suv = gas guzzler = cheap. even tho the equivalent truck usually gets a lil worse mpg (from what i see on epa.org).

i took my drivers test in one of my dads suburbans. he LOVES em. I do love tahoes/suburbans.

i dont really 'need' a truck except for to put a snowmobile in, or atv(yes I know i can get a trailer.. but depending on where i live parking may be limited which would make having a trailer hard).

Not too worried about puttin it in R on accident tho lol... I've got a ton of driving experience from the car biz... im pretty comfortable in anything with an engine.
Mythbusters did a thing where they put cars in Reverse at highway speed a couple years ago. All that happened is it triggered the CEL and the cars just slowly glided to a stop. No damage was done to the vehicles.

lol, thats good to know escape! however.. I wont be testing that out lol.

Also, in my GMC K1500, from Drive if you simply push up on the gear lever it slides into Neutral and stops. From Neutral, pull it down and it stops in Drive. You have to pull the shift lever towards you to actually get into Reverse. You've really got to try to "accidentally" shift into Reverse from Neutral. or Drive.

Ahhh-figured there might be some "idiot proofing" nowadays in the ATs
A buddy of mine put his 1977 Datsun SW in R at 55 mph.
Surprisingly it still ran, but "something" wasn't right so he had to switch it out.
Shoulda figured that couldn't happen anymore

Escape-you are a Ford owner-what was the QC reliabilitylike in early 2000's trucks like the Mountaineer/Explorer? Ford sold a zillion of them.
Charlie

my truck can sorta go into 'any gear' it wants if u push it a lil... the 'stops' have worn away with age lol. still not concerned.. i go from D to N alll the time with it (coastin to stop lights, downhills etc.. etc.)

just found out the 03 mountaineer he picked up has the OD light flashing and it says check trans fluid. Hmmmmm

Hmmm-
What is an OD light-check engine or check codes or some service interval has been reached?
If it is anything significant just tell your dad "You know I'm a GM man"
Ha,Ha

sorry! OD = overdrive. so the light showing od on/off is flashing

OD light flashing is the same as the wrench light in a GM truck - it means one or more transmission trouble codes are present. Can be anything from a bad selector switch to a sticky solenoid to a faulty speed sensor to actual geartrain/clutch issues. A generic scanner won't find these codes - you need a scanner that can read P1xxx codes.

Escape-you are a Ford owner-what was the QC reliabilitylike in early 2000's trucks like the Mountaineer/Explorer? Ford sold a zillion of them.
Charlie

This is actually my first Ford, I'm actually a GM man myself. The other vehicles in my stable are an 81 Buick, 86 Chevy C-10, 98 GMC K1500, and a 2000 GMC Savanna 3500.

OD light flashing is the same as the wrench light in a GM truck - it means one or more transmission trouble codes are present. Can be anything from a bad selector switch to a sticky solenoid to a faulty speed sensor to actual geartrain/clutch issues. A generic scanner won't find these codes - you need a scanner that can read P1xxx codes.

Yup. I had a 93 E250, O D light flashing, ended up costing me a rebuilt trans

Edit - it did have over 300,000 on it tho......

not good! I will let him know.

Thestepchild-Escape
So not many true blue Fordites on this thread.I know they are out there-and are as partisan as Hondaites or GMers.Maxx is/was obviously a long time-long suffering?? GM owner?
Well I better get going.Like the lazy SOB I can be-I didn't change out my starter yet despite it being kinda iffy on hot starts- but it isn't great on cold days either.I've been told this is a sign of some sort of increased resistance decay "somewhere' in the starter-something characteristic of GM truck starters- original starter so can't complain-14 years 218,000 miles.
I have had a cheapo ($55) ebay new stater sitting next to this computer disk since Jan 2011-gonna pay for that-30 degrees today-BITTER BY NOLA STANDARDS!!

Thanks
Charlie
PS Is hot start problems- very slow turn over- a GM STARTER bad sign?Battery is ok-alternator ok.

I've never had to replace a starter in the K1500, that still has the original starter as far as I know. 14 years/180,000 miles. I have replaced starters in the 81 Buick, 86 C10, and the 2000 GMC 3500. The starter in the 81 & 86 is really big & heavy. Real pain to do. When I saw the starter for the 2000 van, I first thought they sold me the wrong starter as it looked too small, and was relatively light. Shockingly, when I pulled the old starter down it was the same size & weight. Real easy job. If the engine is turning over unusually slowly, and the battery terminals are clean & tight, and the battery load tests fine, then get rid of that starter.

Escape-thanks for the info.
Pretty sure it is original starter-14 years 218,000 miles-last 23000 and 5 years mine.
Yes it is a TINY starter for a big V-8.
Last starter I changed with in 1977 on a 383 Cuda. It was much larger-maybe the same length but bigger diameter-and maybe 25+ lbs(seemed that heavy).

Yes it is easy to get at-might not even bother with jack stands, but probably will.
Once I'm under there it should take maybe 15 minutes-couple of long bolts and maybe one electrical connnection.I took it off 1 year back to put the oil pan back on-
Guess I'll do it Sat 1st thing-rain or not.
Thanks
Charlie

Yeah, its cold out there. I remember when I did it in the 86 Chevy. It was below freezing outside, and I was driving home one evening. The truck stalled, and had to pull over on a back road. Truck wouldn't restart. Had to go get a new starter and by the time I got back to the truck it was super cold and dark. Had to do that starter lying in a cold ditch. NOT a fun time.

Ha,ha-yeah that sounds like fun-cold, dark in a damp ditch probably holding a freakin' flashlight in your mouth.
Starting was REALLY iffy today-hope it is the starter
Charlie

Yep, changing the starter in a frozen ditch, holding a mini-maglite in my mouth.

wow. that sounds unfortunate! bummer. i dont have any 'unfortunate' stuck by the road stories with cars! however... one time int he desert the helo I was flying on developed a fuel leak in a field (cant say where lol), it ended up being a bad o-ring... which I managed to macgyver with some duck tape and petrolatum hahahahaha to get it home!

thought he got me a vehicle.. 02 quad cab 4.7l v8 ram with apprx 130k miles. however after buyin it he noticed that it has a 'tick' comin from the motor.. and upon research I found that it could be a plethora of things, and while some are fine... a lot of them are Very bad lol. Major bummer!\

A tick from a vehicle like that... My first guess is a stuck hydraulic lifter. Throw some Mobil1 High Mileage 5W30 in it and it should go away.

Yep, changing the starter in a frozen ditch, holding a mini-maglite in my mouth.

well at least it WAS a frozen ditch (not muddy), you HAD a maglight and no alligators or snakes were nearby. Count your blessings :)

Ha-life is a b##$t when a frozen ditch at night with a flashlight in your mouth is
anything to feel blessed about!

Speaking of which-Karma just got me for being a LAZY and Broke/cheap.
#@$^ EBAY STARTER IS THE WRONG ONE!!
Not even close-the flange on it is waaaay too small.
Of course I should have found this out about 11 months ago when I bought this $59 POJ!
Heck the $59 delivered should have been a big hint that-1)It would be junk 2) The sellers would just grab the closest starter and toss it in a box,
Well ,I'll hunt up on CL-then see what autozone has.

So another Mopar-but it is kinda iffy??
Yeah when you are broke you take lots of chances you would prefer not to take.
Despite my current screw up this GM will be easy and cheap to fix-
Would have been easier and cheaper if I hadn't bought this ebay poj!!
Now it is 38 degrees-getting dark-and I have a starterless truck.
Oh those SOB electrical connections were hard to get to-sitting on top etc-and not enough length of wire to let the starter drop down and get a good look at them- greasy dirt falling in my eyes while I'm working with a 3AAA- LED maglight-IN MY MOUTH OF COURSE-tomorrow I'll get smart and find the trouble light.
Charlie

Now it is 38 degrees-getting dark-and I have a starterless truck.
Oh those SOB electrical connections were hard to get to-sitting on top etc-and not enough length of wire to let the starter drop down and get a good look at them- greasy dirt falling in my eyes while I'm working with a 3AAA- LED maglight-IN MY MOUTH OF COURSE-tomorrow I'll get smart and find the trouble light.
Charlie

I feel your pain. Mine was a 2AA maglite, and it was long before the LED versions were available. I now keep a 2D LED maglite in my car. Really nice, but I don't think I want to put that thing in my mouth. One tip though... Keep a spare set of batteries for the flashlight in the glovebox. I found out the hard way that LED flashlights (at least LED Maglites) don't dim much as the batteries die. It works, up until the point that all of a sudden it just cuts out.


If you shop around at Auto Zone, Pep Boys, Advance auto... ETC you should find a decent priced starter with a lifetime warranty.

Nah.. dont think its a stuck lifter.. but it could be. there are a TON of things it could be, including a lifter, loose rocker, bad timing chain tensioner, or bad bearings. so it oculd be a cheap.. or expensive fix lol. thats why its iffy!

the 4.7 gets MUCH better FE than the 5.9l v8 does tho lol. i think its rated for 16 highway whereas mine is rated 13 highway (i get 16-17 highway with it, 18-20 at 55). pretty tempting truck tho. 02 quad cab 4x4 loaded (no leather tho) in good shape for 3500$ with 130k miles.

that in the ditch repair sounds horrible! no fun at all lol. at least you werent getting shot at lmao.

One tip though... Keep a spare set of batteries for the flashlight in the glovebox. ...

Those batteries won't last long in the glovebox if you park in the sun in summer. Somewhere like under the seat would be at least somewhat less hot.

That starter swap doesn't sound like very much fun. My original starter is still functioning as well as ever at 577K.

Well, funny you should mention that. I was on the outer edge of a military firing range. I believe technically the ditch on the north side of the road is Gov't property. (I was on State Rt 610 in Stafford County, VA in the vicinity of Range 7) When I was a kid I used to hear machine gun fire while waiting for the school bus.

Isn't it odd that an unlikely thread like this (unlikely for cleanmpg) goes on and on for ten pages of posts ? There must be some "excitement" or "fun" that I am missing. Winter traction ? Maybe,but I've done just fine with FWD in Illinois winters for three decades.
Okay, you guys go back to your fun now.

I'm debating my starter options.
I noticed when I D/C the battery cable that the little screw/bolt wasn't really tight.
I put that battery in their 1.5 years back-and I tend to overtighten things-so it must have loosened.The contact still seemed like it was tight-but.
Now the starter was still iffy with the new battery with tight cables,
What it did/does was slow turn if you tried to start it ~ 5 minutes of shutting it down.
Of course now it was really slow turning in the cold mornings-possible that loose bolt was making charging less than effective.
So I'm going to bolt it back in-get $120 ahead-and get autozones $120-lifetime warranty-starter. AZ has a $69 starter- but I have had problems with AZ's cheapest parts before.

Thanks
Charlie
PS GOOD idea about the batteries-Yeah the 3aa is waaaay too heavy to be comfortable in my mouth.
So the Dodge is out?
Hope it is warmer today.
Hey my traction New Orleans- is FINE!! Snows maybe every 5 years here-get actual significant snow on ground maybe every 20 years

hah, that is pretty funny escape :-)

Edwin, fwd is definitely fine in winter no doubt! If I didnt want/need a truck for multiple reasons I would be getting one.

Phoebe- that sounds sucky. Lifetime warranty is always nice!! Just had to change the waterpump on my ram yesterday (was from advanced auto), which I replaced 3 years ago. Got it for free tho since last one was lifetime warranty. Also did a balljoint and thermostat housing.

The dodge is a Definite... Maybe lol. I've got a family friend up in NH that used to be a certified dodge tech, he is going to check it out make sure it isnt something major. Its pretty much exactly what I want (would prefer a newer with hemi... but I dont have that much $$$ haha).

Since I drive them till the doors fall off, I always buy lifetime warranty parts if I can.

Even life time warranty has its problems.
15 years ago I replaced a Toyota truck-clutch master cylinder 4 yes 4 times in 5 months.
I bought a AZ part-lasted 3 months 1st time 2 weeks next time 6 months last time.
It was a $42 part-the Toyota rebuild was about $90 delivered-mailorder/phone order in pre internet days.
Cheapskate that I was I finally gave up on the AZ part.
I've have better luck with AZ since then- water pump+ brake booster rebuilds-still ok 2 years in.

So you haven't given up on the Dodge-well miles low 130,000 price right- lot to be said for that.My brother's DODGE 1/2 ton still running 15+ years 200,000 miles.
Yeah when the $$ are tight-you have to take some chances.

You fly heli?Brother also flies Heli-stationed at Fort Rucker/Enterprise most of his 20 years-then 22 years as a contractor IP-now he is strictly inside-no flying-in AC-
Stationed other places
VN(didn't get killed so ok)
Germany(loved it bought a Porche)
Iran-in 1975 when we were Shah's buddies-sucked-too hot/too cold lazy officers who would just memorize -not learn-showing up on time strictly optional-same with Saudi pilots he trained.This is when he sold me the 1971 Cuda 383-made me promise to sell it back to him hen he returned 2 years later-SOB- he traded me a 1973 Cuda 318 for the 383 Cuda-pitiful replacement-I gave it to our sister-she wrecked it of course!

Funny town(Enterprise ALA)-statue of a Boll(bole??) Weevil in town square-Weevil killed cotten-so they grew peanuts made more $$-who knows ALA folks have a better sense of humor than I figured!!

Charlie
I'm going to reinstall-cross fingers-have second battery in truck-can jump it in the hopes of pushing thru enough power-if it comes to that-always managed to get started in less that 20 seconds-despite barely cranking.

oh yea it does! my waterpump had lifetime warranty lol.

had to drop the transmission in my trans am 6 times in a month due to clutch/slave/master cylinder failures (finally replaced all 3 at once to fix it).

sometimes u just get a bad part.. or bad manufacturer! happened a lot with the helos i used to work.

nope not yet.. i like it a lot lol since its pretty much exactly what I want (would prefer a diesel... out of my price range sigh).

never flew em.. just worked on em and flew On them sometimes haha. They retired the one I worked (MH-53m pave low). Im a desk jocket at the moment.

that sounds like a crappy trade back man... im a HUGE mopar guy. i've had many (mostly before I joined the militar). have had some pretty nice one.

good luck with the start issues man!

It wasn't a straight 1971 383 cudaMT for1973 AT 318 Cuda
I was making my brother worse than it was-think he gave me my original $800 I paid him and threw in the 1973 318 Cuda.
Reinstalled the old starter- it started- but....
I'll limp along with it until I get $130 ahead and can get the lifetime AZ starter- or a cheapo used one on CL.
Yeah brother is strictly desk now-and he is happy about it-especially in the summer in ALA
Charlie
PS Yes I have a soft spot for Mopar- Fury 3 -1965 SW 1971 383 CUDA 1973 318 Cuda
1980 D100 318 and a Duster I bought for my sister
PPS- Got me to work and back today-no problem.
PPPS-For comic relief/Murphy's Law-yesterday while reinstalling it the electrical connection were a real b$#%h-I left the 4" long mounting bolts a bit loose to make it a bit easier.I was sooo happy that I got them tight without dropping the really tiny nut.
You can see where this is leading!
Yeah,I was running in and out watching the Saints try to choke-pissed off etc
That I put the tools away-dropped the Suburban down-and cranked it up
Screeeeeeech- ??? so surprised I gave the key another quick turn-screeeeech.
Them I remembered-didn't completely tighten mounting bolts
Slid back under-tightened them- started right up.
The screech wasn't-didn't sound like- metal on metal- it was a starter spinning free(I hope not teeth chewing on teeth)
Saints!!

oh well that makes more sense phoebeisis!

summer here is brutal (panhandle fl) if u cant take heat/humidity!

nice man! i've had too many to really post lol.

glad to hear its goin ok for you! at least it didnt break lol!


my old man just found another deal for me... 03 suburban 4x4 loaded (no autoride, navigation, rear entertainment etc. etc.) 130k miles, 4500, Great shape. bahhhhhhh i hate options haha

I would NOT get a lifetime warranty starter from a store like Autozone. What you are getting is someone's starter that they returned. If the outter bearing was out. That is what was replaced. The whole starter is not rebuilt. It may last a while. Short while or long while to be determined.

They don't care if it fails in 20,000 miles. You have to supply the labor to take it off, bring it to the store for exchange and then reinstall it.

I had my alternator rebuilt last year for a 96 Ranger by a local rebuilder. It was $44 and it was completed in about 2 hours.

Just my 2 cents.

$4500 2003 4x4 loaded-good price.

Misirach- yeah,I probably mentioned my AZ clutch master cyl problems-lifetime warranty but life is too short to change starters out every 3 months
Charlie

hot swappin most any starter would really suck!! I hate redoing maintenance over and over.

looks like after talkin to some friends up in AK my best bet is to stay with a truck. animal carcass in the back of a suburban would suck.. lol (Ill be hunting/fishing up there).

Hey-that is what heavy plastic is for-
the 6 mil stuff-100x10 foot rolls is maybe $25??
I use it when I use the Suburban for Dump runs(and oil recycling-hauling chopped up tree stuff)
I use my suburban like a 8 foot bed pickup.
Still a pickup is pretty convenient- but like you say- more expensive.Cost miles how hard it was worked in its former life-all usually favor Suburbans/Tahoe since many-even 4x4 were basically soccer mom+ vacation hy vehicles-some 4x4 actually were towing more etc since if someone plans much towing and wants a 1/2 ton-they buy the pickup-maybe slightly lighter-so slightly higher rating??

Before this suburban I had a series of small and 1/2 ton pickups-and the Pilot-pickups are handy-but suburban is almost a long bed pickup

while that may be true... the smell of dead animal in the vehicle doesnt get stopped by a roll of plastic in the back!!! lol.

may still end up with a burban.. depends on what he can pick up in my price range!

Guess Not!!
Right price is king when short of $$
Mostest for leastest

The pricing here in FL is CRAZY compared to pricing in NH. Im not even talkin through my dad either. Im talkin craigslist/autotrader in NH vs FL. Same truck in NH is 3-5k lower than in FL on avg. I know some is cuz of the higher environmental damage from salted roads etc. up there than down here in FL.

There's also a higher demand for 4wd trucks in the northeast than there is in Florida. Just like Florida has a better market for Town Cars and Cadillacs.

I know what you mean about prices. Try comparing used Prius prices in MN to those in SC.

right.. but they are cheaper in NH than they are in FL. As in a 4wd chevy 06 for 10k in nh, is about 15k in florida.

the used market pricing is crazy

The pricing here in FL is CRAZY compared to pricing in NH. Im not even talkin through my dad either. Im talkin craigslist/autotrader in NH vs FL. Same truck in NH is 3-5k lower than in FL on avg. I know some is cuz of the higher environmental damage from salted roads etc. up there than down here in FL.

It is or was quite common in Maine to say when a used vehicle came from Florida. The winters are tough on cars here.

However the reverse is true of Tacomas in Maine. Mainers love Tacomas. A good place to sell one.

Heck- no one with any sense wants a 8 yo NE car-freakin rustbuckets.
In 2004 I bought a 2001 Prizm from New Jersey ( a chevy in name only-a Corolla in every other respect built same line as Corollas-so Toyota QC).
It had just 12,000 miles-$6300+$500 shipping- great deal.
When it arrives I looked in the engine bay and
EVERY EVERY PLATED PART AND EVERY ALUMINUM PART WAS COATED WITH WHITE GRUNGE CORROSION!!
No exception -every nut bolt exposed even exposed aluminum had grungy oxidation-aluminum steel and whatever they were plated with!!!
This was a 2 yo car with just 12000 miles on it!!(originally sold 1st time -some kinda of rental lease in 2002)
Now painted parts- if the paint was intact- were just fine!!

Yeah never buy a NE vehicle!! A 8 yo Suburban up there might be held together by rust!!
Texas and Louisiana have decent prices- TX probably the best lots of 4X4 sold there-despite not really needing them-probably bought for occasional muddy roads hunting tow little boat slippery boat ramp etc.
Charlie

Lol.. it depends. if u take care of it it is fine. My truck spent the first 9 years of its life in NE... it looks like a southern truck right down to the fading/peeling clear on the hood lol.

I wont touch rusty stuff lol... I've dealt with it before and I dont do body work. i can fix anything mechanical... body work no thanks!

I've seen 2006s with rust.. and 1980s model trucks/cars with NONE. Its kinda random, its very dependent on properly cleaning ur vehicle etc.

Garage storage is another important factor in the NE. I got a '93 Accord from my parents that was garage kept up through '99. Within the first year of ownership (I didn't have a garage in NEPA), the back wheel wells did their normal 80s/90s Honda rusting out bit. And by '03 the exhaust had managed to acquire a hole.

How in the world do you protect them?
Seems like you would have to COMPLETELY wash it every 3rd day maybe?

Ophbalance- how does indoor storage help a vehicle with salty water on it?
Is it that it is less likely to have wet water on it- condensate etc since the garage will be heated to some extent?
In South Louisiana my vehicle gets wet everyday- but despite 14 years of exposure-and leaky "doors" and standing water on metal it has ZERO real rust.Intact paint is
great stuff and GM did a great job with the later 90's trucks.Seem to remember some horrible paint problems in 80's early 90's.
Charlie
PS Your dad has found some nice trucks-that autoride one for example
He will find more-I always have to remind myself that there is ALWAYS going to be another great deal coming down the road. There really is never a "Once in a lifetime" great deal you miss- if it comes once- it will come again- Especially with this crummy economy and high gas prices!
PPS According to sister brother in law in Wasilla Alaska-the construction economy has slowed in Alaska lately.He is a construction manager-bridges roads mines harbors-and he is looking out of state and out of country for work-Mexico(need body guard) Qatar Philippines Chile-none of these places are garden spots! Lots of the economy is energy related-not sure if Alaska is on the downside of energy production??
Wondering how windy Alaska is?? Guess there is little point in generating wind energy that far away from population centers

My thoughts on the rust (and I have nothing to really back it up other than what I saw). The garage very rarely got below freezing. It was directly under the house. The water never really got a chance to sit against the wheel wells and really wreck havoc, and just took a fair bit of the salt with it as well. I really miss this house, and had to pass up on the opportunity to buy it off the parents. http://www.geodesicgrafx.com/files/th_set17_0024.jpg (http://www.geodesicgrafx.com/files/set17_0024.JPG)

oh yea he will find me somethin phoebe! Im not worried at all. I've got 3 months lol.

Washing them frequently helps, a undercarriage wash helps a lot, so does a undercarriage protection (oil undercoating usually). Also repairing any scratches that go through the paint (the rust will take hold FAST if u have a scratch or ding that goes through the paint).

my friend up in anchorage said they had a high wind gust yesterday of 118mph!!! holy crap lol. not sure if its NOrmally super windy, but thats hurricane force lol.

OPHbalance/Carrmann
My wife absolutely LOVES those Geodesic-Buckminister Fuller- houses! She loved the picture of your parent's house!!
Must be good at shedding snow-and you get more useable room that with a sharply peaked house-which also sheds snow well.
So it is letting snow/water sit against that metal that is poison. Once it becomes liquid you immediately have a great,salty conductor-and some iron will ionize get oxidized

118 MPH!! Yikes! Yeah really cold places can have spectacular winds-guess warm ocean cold land?? I think they do have those horrible storms-like the folks in the NE USA-My Massachusetts cousins always belly ache about Northeasterns-I counter with our hurricanes- but they also have hurricanes so they trump me.
First hurricane I was in was about 1955 or so in Fall River Mass-4 years old- it was fun then-not so fun now!
I'm guessing BC Canada has nasty weather also
Sure as heck know Pensacola has bad weather- beautiful beaches though- Pensacola/Destin has most beautiful beaches in the world!!
Charlie

It was a great house. The bedrooms - 3 of them - were all bigger than my current master bedroom. The only downside was the flooding that would happen every 6-10 years. There'd be water up to where that Escape sits in the picture. In fact, the early 90s John Deere that sits in my present garage went through at least one flood. Still runs like a champ.

The room with that skylight above the front doors ran floor to ceiling, so about 45 feet. If that half of the dome had been inclosed it would include at least another two bedrooms.

It's a sad sight to see now. The present owner felled all the trees (all walnuts, all a pain, but GREAT coverage from the sun). The Neighbor out of frame on the left owns the woods in the background, something like 40 acres? Anyway, most of the woods within 100 yards have been logged and sold. I tend to not even drive by it if I'm back up in NEPA as I hate to see it in that shape.

It was a great house. You can see about what it's like today here (http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF&msa=0&msid= 209929819609164843595.0004b49ea4e530c695a21). I wouldn't have removed all the trees, but that's just me.

Water up to the Escape roofline- or just reaching it from some river?
We lucked out during Katrina-water stopped about 1000 meters from us-we-River Ridge- are slightly above sea level.
I don't think I would buy a house that would regularly flood every 6-10 years! It is just too much to recover from-flood insurance would be VERY VERY HIGH also!
Charlie

Nope, from what I recall, it was about 1k annually for insurance. BUT... it only covered structure, no "stuff". Here's what I've got from '93 or '94. The Escape shot was from '03 or '04.

Almost the same shot as the Escape, but 10 years earlier.
http://www.geodesicgrafx.com/files/IMAGE01.JPG

Neighbor on the left.
http://www.geodesicgrafx.com/files/IMAGE03.JPG

The garage... we lost 15k in model R/C equipment that year. Never got back into it.
http://www.geodesicgrafx.com/files/IMAGE08.JPG

Shot from the house facing the road (and my 86 Civic, blue door and all).
http://www.geodesicgrafx.com/files/IMAGE13.JPG

Floods are my least favorite natural disaster.
Everything is covered in mud-and in a few days the houses STINK with that mildew odor-everything is ruined-sheetrock is worthless-the wood frames are ok-insulation all has to be pulled out.
Lotta work-miserable
Yeah I like that radio controlled stuff-lotta fun.
When I was a kid I wanted a radio controlled plane-never got around to it-radio controlled planes were really expensive in the early 60's(maybe $500 or more for a full setup-you could get a new car for $2500-a base Plymouth or Rambler-not a Chevy or Ford).I don't think there were any RC cars back then-just planes and boats.
Charlie

that sucks a lot man...!!! sorry to see




so I've gotten real fortunate... my parents decided to cosign a loan with me (only way to get a loan cuz of my bankruptcy) and it looks like im getting a leftover dodge or chevy.

anyone have any experience with new dodges/chevies? Lookin at a 5.3l 2011 chevy 4x4 ext cab, or a 5.9l hemi dodge quad cab 4x4. The chevy is rated 21 highway, dodge is 19 highway. However, the dodge is a quad, and the chevy is a extended cab. Im really tossed on which one I want. They are basically within about 15$ of each other in terms of payments. THe dodge is cheaper for insurance (about 15$ a month lol), and the loan for it is about 15$ cheaper.

Any input?

Carrman-
Hey that is good luck! New is certainly more reliable than 12 year old used!
I don't go to Dodge Forums but I haven't heard-on GM forums-and Hemi Horror stories-
other than the pitiful FE the earlier (5.7 I think) Hemis got- but now the Hemi has cylinder shutoff or whatever Dodge calls it-they now get decent FE but still less than GM FORD .
I would be biased toward the Chevy because of the FE. They are both 6.5 foot beds right?
If so the GM will be a little shorter easier to park maneuver might be handy for fishing hunting situations on dirt roads trees etc.
Still the FE difference is significant-10% adds up-
18mpg= 5555 gallons over 100,000 miles=$22222 per 100,000 miles
16mpg=6250 gallons= $25000 per 100,000 miles
This assumes $4 gallon-wouldn't be surprised to see higher prices than that-maybe $6/gal

I would favor the GM- might consider that 3.5 Ford- but suspect it is costly.
If not to personel- how much are these- maybe $23000+ Tax Title License??
You are getting the 5.3 right- not the 4.8 or 4.3- sometimes end of year vehicles are the less desireable engines-the 4.8 and 4.3 have ZERO advantage over the 5.3-other than slightly cheaper-which is something of course.
Make sure it is the 5.3- 4.8 V-8 buyers constantly post "What adds ons-CAI exhaust etc" do I have to put on to get 5.3 performance?? Nothing wrong with the 4.8- but it just doesn't have the feel of the 5.3-They are never satisfied-despite having a functional reliable truck! Especially younger guys-oldsters like me won't mind-price comfort FE is everything when you get older and the 4.8 is identical in comfort and FE.

I would check Dodge truck forums to see if there are any chronic complaints- the early Nissan Titans ate the rear ends at VERY LOW MILES. Dodge has been making pickups for a long time-so I wouldn't expect that.
I bought a 1980 D100 318 in 1980-$5400 out the door-ok truck but the windows froze shut-rust- in 1983 and I was such a cheapskate I bought a stripper with NO AC IN NEW ORLEANS- BIG FREAKIN MISTAKE. Ohterwise it was a reliable vehicle-off idle stumble common to that era-carbs had problems meeting EPA regs.

Let us know what you find out about the Dodge?
I would favor the Chevy- but the Dodge is probably a decent choice also.
Charlie

same beds!

chevy is extended cab, dodge is quad (more space).

FE has me leaning towards chevy, but my buddy gets 24mpg highway with his quad dodge (2wd tho).

GM actually has a worse turning radius than the dodge even tho its shorter. it IS the 5.3 6spd, I drove a 4.8, pretty noticeable difference. same with the 4.7 dodge vs 5.7 (actually, the hemi IS WAY more powerful than the 4.7 or the 5.3 lol).

Yea the ford is way more than Im lookin at (roughly 27k for either truck).

Im def. looking at the functional/reliable. Consumer reports basically says they are both the same in that regards.

oof, no ac in new orleans?hot stuff lmao!!! i suffered a summer here in my truck with no ac, man did that suck.

Yeah the Hemi is stout by all accounts. 24 mpg-wow-it is certainly plausible- I get 21 mpg with my 1998 which is EPA rated 17mpg hy-so his rated at 20 mpg-getting 24mpg sounds about right if he keeps it about 62mph or so.
The 5.3 will beat it the latest hemis by just what the EPA difference is.
Yeah the hemi is quick!! Quicker than the old 426 hemi as delivered from the factory-
The old 426 Hemi did respond dramatically to aftermarket exhaust and intake.

You will do ok with either choice.I test drove a hemi Ram in 2004- it was quick-much quicker now I think.The extended cab back seat is not horrible for adults-fine for a dog of course.
Charlie

I ended up gettin a great deal on a 4wd quad cab hemi 2012 ram. Got the basic options (windows, locks, cruise, cloth) and 3.55 gears(they tried to up me to 3.92s) for 28k out the door. Cant wait to take delivery in a month when my dad drives it down here. Sticker on it was 35k!

Almost went with the chevy, but the quad cab vs ext cab won me over... plus Im a dodge guy haha! Looking forward to seeing what I can do with the ram. I think I will be able to bust the epa mpg out pretty easily cuz my friend does it in his... and he is NOT an efficient driver at ALL.

I have a soft spot for Mopar-more or less learned to drive on a 1965 Fury 3 stationwagon-318 V-8. My brother and I ran it sooo hard but it kept on ticking. It would show 111mph at WOT-

You should get good service from that hemi-they are 6.2 or so now- not 5.7??
Yeah with that big motor you don't need 3.92 even with OD trans the 3.92 would have you turning >1700 RPMS at 60 mph(pure guess on RPMs)-probably turn 1550 RPMs at 60 mph with the 3.55.
I'm guessing you'll get 23 mpg hy at 62-65mph-
It is nice to have a full sized backseat.The extended cab backseat is tolerable for maybe 30 minutes but after that it is strictly"are we there yet" time.
I like the Ram's looks also.
Yeah you luck is changing!!
$28000 OTD means actual selling price about $26000 or less- $9000 discount- pretty good!
Charlie

Haha! Nice. I've had sooo many mopars. I miss havin a old hot rod. NO point in havin it in alaska.. maybe when I grow up lol I'll get another hot rod to play with. See if I cant make a real fuel efficient big block mopar.. lol.

Nope, still 5.7. The 'srt8s' have the 6.2 I think with like 470hp. The 5.7 in the truck has 390hp/apprx 410tq. Big step up from my 240hp/340tq 360/5.9l haha.

I guess the new 6spd really has 2 alternate 2nd gears. Has 2 ODs as well, .76 and .67 I believe. Lookin forward to drivin it! I cant wait :-). So its not REALLY a 6spd, but a 5spd with 2 diff. 2nd gears.

Bout time with my luck.. life has kinda sucked for about 3 years (since I got married... lol).

I ended up at 29k after extending the bumper to bumper to 5year/50k miles lol. Warranty is nice... esp while Im in AK where parts etc. are more expensive.

Haha! Nice. I've had sooo many mopars. I miss havin a old hot rod. NO point in havin it in alaska.. maybe when I grow up lol I'll get another hot rod to play with. See if I cant make a real fuel efficient big block mopar.. lol.


Maybe stuff a fuel injected Hemi with cylinder deactivation into a Dodge Aries? One thing is certain, as light as they are that sucker will be fast. I would imagine if responsibly driven, it would have decent FE as well.

Maybe stuff a fuel injected Hemi with cylinder deactivation into a Dodge Aries? One thing is certain, as light as they are that sucker will be fast. I would imagine if responsibly driven, it would have decent FE as well.


that would be fun... not a fan of the aries tho! maybe a dart/demon/duster. badass lookin, with a nice engine.

tho I HATE all teh advanced electronics/crap in the new dodges. When I had my dakota r/t tuning for mods was such a PITA. The computer would 'learn' over any standard bolt in modifier such as SAFC/JET etc. So it would 'help' at first, and then relearn its program and ignore ur adjustments.

Right- EVERYTHING is more expensive in AK. Probably a good idea to get the longer warranty.Maybe it has some tow benefit and maybe even a loaner car.
Probably be many years before you need it-heck one benefit of buying the warranty is your sure to not need it if you buy it!
Heck I wonder if gasoline is more expensive -they must have a refinery-wouldn't make sense to ship that oil twice.
My all time favorite car was the 1971 383 Cuda I bought from then sold back to my brother-loved that car.Once again the Cheapskate gene showed up- my brother bought it new in 1971-or maybe late 1970- NO AC!
He was living in Enterprise Ala-hot as heck there-so wasn't like he ws living up north-just cheap-and probably didn't want to weight to get it installed(didn't take long back then since dealers commonly installed ACs.

Yeah you will love that MOPAR- 390 HP- full sized Dodge horses not those little ponies Ford used to claim! Hmmmm my Suburban makes 250 hp-feels quick enough- 390 hp-rocket-!!
Charlie

yes indeedy! It does come with both towing/roadside and loaner haha.

hopefully many years, but you never know!!

gas is about 4$ a gallon there right now..as opposed to $3.15 here :-(

badass car! I had a 71 440 3spd auto challenger that was super rare (had power win/lock/ac/8track/adjustable seat . Never shoulda sold it :-( , i was 19 didnt know any better *sigh*.

cant wait to get it. I test drove 12 hemi here, and it had some 'git' to it haha

WHAAAAAT!!
YOU SOLD THAT 440 CHALLENGER!!
When the economy was booming those Challengers went for BIG MONEY!!!
Suspect they still go for most of what you paid for your Hemi
I looked up the 1971 440 in Chiltons-the 3 two barrel version-six pack-made 385 hp
and 490 lb ft - very serious power for 1971.
Still your 390 2012 hp is FAR MORE HP than 1971 HP ( but those older vehicles would really respond to headers exhaust mods cams better tires etc)
The way ratings were calculated was changed in 1972-and the new ratings were far lower-frequently just 2/3 than the older ratings(the 318 dropped from 230 hp to 150 hp-same compression-the 340 dropped much less 275 to 240-everything else-all brands dropped to 75% or less)

Your Ram will be almost as quick as that 440-despite maybe 2000 lbs extra weight.
Still I would LOVE to have that old 440-was it 3x2 or was their a 4 barrel option that year-Chilton shows just the 3x2 for some reason.
Imagine that-3 carbs on one engine
Couple of years earlier it showed 2 4 barrels on the 426 HEMI!
No way those cars EVER saw 10 mpg!!
You'll get double the mpg despite 2000 extra lbs-and maybe 50-70 more actual hp.
Charlie

yea.. pretty dumb. turns out it was SUPER rare because of all the options it had, most specifically power sunroof which was only made in something like 30 ish 71 challengers.

it was a 4barrel carb.

yea 440s respond incredibly well to mods. Cam/intake/headers/carb is probably pretty easy to call that an extra 100 hp lol.

stock 440 challenger with 4spd would run low 13s with a good driver/good tires (stock ones sucked badddd). my truck will run low 14s with sticky tires.

my 440 roadrunner went 10.5s@135mph when I was a senior in HS, i got about 4-5mpg with it. but it was tubbed, had a dana 60, wheelie bars, roll cage, skinnies etc. etc.

Power Sunroof- heak I was 20 yo then-and I didn't know there was such a thing as a sunroof-to say nothing of a Power Sunroof!! It actually worked-the sunroof!!
Yes in the old days simple bolts ons really woke those all but race motors(10.3 compression)
100 hp was plausible) I forgot about my fancy Holley aluminum intake manifold-the stock cast iron one weighed 50 lbs easy-maybe more!!
Sure a stock Challenger-440- would do 13's with right tires-maybe advance timing-not much just right tires and driver-heck almost race motors.
10.5 135- !!! What is that 650 hp! In a street car!!

Plymouth Dodge always gave you lots of performance for the $$-loved Mopar-Chevy Ford were always soooo expensive-396 Chevelle might have been $700 more than RoadRunner SuperBee with 383- couple hunded $$ more than the 440 also
There were very very few 427 Chevys back then-too $$(except maybe Corvettes- but 350's probably outsold 427s 10/1 even in Corvettes- 100/1 otherwise)
Just as well a really good 350-built a bit-could outrun the 427(tire limitations helped of course)
Memory lane!
Luck with that Hemi- be a fun truck get good mpg considering size utility performance.
Charlie

Lol yea, mine didnt work (needed a rebuilt kit).. but it had one lol.

yea, old things LOVED bolt ons. Shoot, advance timing, tires, flip the lid on the air cleaner (more air flow), and tweak the carb was good for almost .5 in the 1/4 on avg with a big block. um, not sure about 650 lol. probably around there. Not hard to do with a 440 lol. Dad raised me as a mopar guy. we've always liked the underdogs haha, back when he was racing no one really liked mopar so they were DIRT cheap. 440 is better than a hemi IMO (426) due to much cheaper parts. Its a poor mans race eng compared to the hemi lol.

yea, 350 is a great platform. Small, easy to build/cheap, runs great haha. lots of kits to fit it into lots of things too. kinda crazy what you see it in. the newer version of it, the ls1 is pretty good to (346ci tho), and can make impressive HP#s without sacrificing mpg. my 450 rwhp (510 apprx crank hp) got 29mpg on the hwy with 3.90 gears in a Moser 9".

memory lane for me too.. sucks haha. Im only 28 lol!!! had cooler stuff when i was still in HS than I do now. stupid ex wife.. lol

Cant wait to drive the ram, see what kinda mpg I can get out of it. Once it gets here I can sell mine also.

Does anyone know if the toppers that are even with the roof hurt or help mpg? pondering getting one.. if it hurts mpg i'll just get one of those fabric tonneau covers so I can put stuff in the bed without weather gettin to it (especially for the trip up to AK).

yea, old things LOVED bolt ons. Shoot, advance timing, tires, flip the lid on the air cleaner (more air flow), and tweak the carb was good for almost .5 in the 1/4 on avg with a big block.

That's what I did on my old 74 Chevy C-10. I flipped the air cleaner lid, installed an electronic distributor from a 75 Chevy van, and put platinum plugs in it. When driven responsibly it would get about 25 MPG on the highway. Not bad for a 20 year old truck with over 300,000 miles. When I bought my 86 Chevy it had dual tanks, and I thought "Imagine how far I can go on dual tanks!". Reality was it took 2 tanks on the 86 to go as far as the 74 went on one.

The Death Trap tanks right??
I don't think I EVER saw a 426 Hemi car on the street.Maybe car show-or local weekend car shows- but I never actually saw a Hemi anything just driving or parked on the street-and I was an adult- more or less- back when they were "alive"
They were just so expensive-no one ever bought them- The 440- had most of the HP but $1000 cheaper.Cheaper to fix cheaper everything.
Heck the 426 Hemi even required some sort of SPERM WHALE OiL ADDITIVE- no kidding I read that somewhere!! Not sure what it was added to-oil trans gearbox diff

08Escape-wow- 25mpg with a carbureted pickup with a CD about .5 (maybe worse) pretty good.!You were a hypermiler long before the rest of us.It was a MT right ? Was it that straight 6 (250-300) or a V-8?? In any case 25mpg would have made jaws drop back then!!
In the 50's 60's the MPG brag was "my car gets 20 mpg".

No, it was a 350 with a TH350 3 speed automatic with locking torque converter. Back then all the highways in my area were mostly 55 MPH, so I'd just set the cruise on 55 and enjoy the ride. Remember, 1974 model year light duty trucks had no emissions requirements. It had no cat converter, smog pump, or any other crap that robs power and FE. It was even designed with leaded gasoline in mind, and I added lead substitute to the gas at each fillup.

25mpg with a 1/2 ton V-8 carburetor and an old AT like that-impressive.
Did you use stock jetting?
I could approach that with the Suburban-maybe-maybe even get 25mpg-but I suspect it might be at slightly less than 55mph.It gets 21mpg-but that is long hy trips probably at 60 mph-and maybe 1/3 of those miles are at >2000 ft altitude-less drag.
25mpg-maybe slightly over 50 mph.Maybe I'll try it sometime.

Carrmann-when is ETA- 15 days or so??Keep us posted!!
Charlie

that is impressive for something old and carbureted lol!!

more like 25 ish. i wish 15! oh well. already bought some stuff. tonneau cover, undercoat, linex bedliner.

I don't know if it was stock jetting or not. When I bought the truck in the early 90's it already had 190,000 miles on it. The truck ran well, so I never messed with the carb. If it wasn't broke, I wasn't going to touch it for fear of making things worse than when I started. I did make minor adjustments to the automatic choke, but I never touched the jets.

in a bit of a arguement on a dodge truck forum. i mentioned putting the truck to max psi sidewall and several people are saying that it will be miniscule gains while also causing the tire to wear faster. I know this is true, but i cant remember where the reference came from (found it on this site). Does anyone know? Im hoping I can educate some people.

Thanks in advance!

I have always run my truck tires at the sidewall max, and have never had abnormal or premature wear. The current tires on my 98 K1500 have ~30,000 miles on them, and they still look like new.

yea... i agree 08escape. however saying that to them will just make them say 'blah blah blah'. i coulda sworn there was some studies done or somethng that proved it.

my trucks tires have been at sidewall max (and higher) for 4 years and still look like i could go another 30k miles on them lol.

I bet the old " too high pressure wears out the center of the tire" is a holdover from Bias
ply tires.
Old Bias ply tires REALLY changed shape when they were low-and a tiny bit when they were high.
I wonder what your sidewall max will be.The Hemi Ram is maybe 1 week ETA?
Does it come with LT or P tires?
Sidewall will be maybe 50-55 psi?

On studies- yes I think I've seen them here.

One recent study it the " gliding distance decreased 50>60 psi" would give the anti high tire pressure guys some ammo. Not 25 cal pistol ammo- it would be 308 ammo!!
Of course I think the decreased glide distance was just a statistical blip-tough to have exactly the same conditions.

You won't win over the anti high pressure guys.Heck they have the auto companies(and tire companies) in their corner.

You could make this point-a 3% decrease in glide distance will be about 40 feet in the 1400 feet I glide from 37>28mph. If I run out of speed 40 feet early-I have to hit the gas-4 gallons per hour- for 1/3600 hour(1 seconds) it will waste .001 gallons.
My P&G cycle cycle will be about 1800 feet-8 seconds at 4gph 30 seconds at .8gph- if I have to add 1 second of 4gph- roughly .001 gallons it really hurts my FE
My usual cycle is 1800 feet .0167 gallons - or 1800/5280/ divided by .0167 gallons=20mpg

Adding just one second at 4mpg (1/3600) means .001 gallon per second.)
.001/.017 is about 6%.
My point is when you P&G a 3% increase in glide distance can easily be a 6% increase in FE. in city P&G.

Your Ram will certainly be able to beat my Suburban in P&G cycles. Heck it has that "fuel shutoff feature-takes forever for my Suburban to drop to .8gph-and it will drop lower than .8gph in glides) .It also has cylinder shutdown- not sure if that will come into play?

In any case I bet you can get 24mpg cycles which means something like actual city FE of maybe 18-20mpg!! Approaching GM two mode hybrid city FE( which usually costs buyers about $10,000 to get Tahoe hybrid-well $10,000+$45000)

Yeah you can't win the tire pressure battle on a pickup site.
Heck the older Hemi owners will have never even seen 14 mpg city-NEVER!!
They probably figure your 3/4 ton numbers are an elaborate hoax!!
Dodge Rams-until recently got HORRIBLE FE.
The new Hemi-cyl shutdown EPA 20 MPG HY- get died and gone to heaven FE vs say a 2002 Hemi.
Charlie
Charlie

Charlie

A lot of trucks still use bias-ply tires, mostly commercial I would think.

Herm
Really-I had no idea? 1/2 3/4 ton or big tractor trailers?
Why??
If they are doing it commercially there is some $$$ advantage.
Easier to retread?

Learned something new today.I thought everything switched to radials 25 years ago.

I do distinctly remember how easy it was to tell if a bias ply was at 20 psi-instead of 28psi(which was about normal tire pressure in 1965 or so). Heck I remember being surprised to discover one of our cars required 32psi-seemed sooooo high.
Yeah bias tires looked flat at 20 psi-and normal was 28pi. Radials-can't tell 20 psi from 40 psi,
Charlie

PS- speaking of the hemi ram- I bet it will be a 20mpg city vehicle(in the lower 48 or summer in AK)-even without shutting off at redlights(which with a new vehicle is a realistic option-not an option with your 3/4 ton 1996??-I just switched to a good starter-might consider it with the 98 SUV if the new starter continues to convince me I've fixed my chronic starting problem),
I wonder what the Hemi will use at idle?? Any of those Dodge guys have Scangauges?

their real 'defense' is increased wear and tear with the tires. Which would apply with bias plys.. not with radials.

I am hoping to see 20s pretty consistently!

I have the ultragauge... i'll let you know once i get the truck! my current truck uses .79 idling in gear with ac off, .89-.91 with ac on, and .85 idling in N with ac off. however i usually shut it off at lights (its fine, no issues at all).

they probably think my 3/4 ton truck #s are a hoax. no one has even 'responded' to that comment. they have told me that if im driving it for MPG, im driving it wrong. to which i responded its a truck... not a hot rod, if I wanted to go fast I'd get osmething fast, not a 7000lb tank lol (no offense intended to anyone, they can be fast).

many have belittled me, for asking for any simple/easy ways to improve the mpg on those. its crazy, I dont get it. its like they are offended that I asked!

Herm
Really-I had no idea? 1/2 3/4 ton or big tractor trailers?
Why??


small pickups, vans etc, bias ply tires can carry a higher load.. this is what my friends in the trades tell me. I think the 18 wheelers are using radial tires, and they re-thread them. When you get a chance look at a truck tire and search for the R or a B in the model number.

http://www.stausaonline.com/light-truck/super-transport.html

take a look at the inflation pressures.. 45-115psi

I think they choose bias ply for higher loads but it may for a different reason, perhaps a softer ride on rough surfaces or off-road?

got the tonneau cover purchased and installed. lookin forward to getting it. old man took it on a short trip, got apprx 17mpg with it after first tank (they dont know how full it was tho).

Is it coming this weekend? Like waiting for Christmas
Charlie

i wish.. i get it on the 26th lol. got a extra set of wheels/tires for it already as well (alloys with almost new winter tires for $400 off craigslist).

it is like waiting for christmas... ugh!

good reports so far for their drive! 17.9mpg first tankful, 18.9 second tankful. Thats with 2 people, 4 spare tires in the bed, plus a bunch of luggage! Also they drove through some snow etc.

Shoot- tough to wait!
I feel like it is almost my truck!!

got it! love drivin it so far.

anyone know how to put it into neutral, while still getting ECO mode to stay on (where it goes to 4cyl), it slows down too fast in gear even with eco mode ON. put it in N and it glides a lot farther, but runs in 8cyl.

in terms of my ultragauge, when it goes to 'eco mode on' the gauge shows i am getting worse MPG. is there someway to get it to reflect that properly? it also shows the truck is burning gas while off, with the key in the ON position.

sadly I wont be able to really test it out for mpg till after I get home. Im towing a dodge durango for my dad up to Navarre (my house). so I wont be getting great mpg.. :-(

Finally!
Pictures and numbers when you get a chance!
Charlie

pictures to come soon! gotta host em somewhere.

it didnt do great towing close to 7000 lbs (4 spare wheels/tires, dodge durango, and flatbed car hauler). in 45-65mph areas I avgd about 13.5mpg. On interstate at 65 ish the best I think is going to be around 12mpg. Would have gone slower, but the old man doesnt do well on long car trips (he had a rough time comin down to fl).

IMHO, if your mileage wasn't in the single digits towing that much weight, you did pretty good.

I was close.. got 11! lol. not disappointed, the 3.55 gears hurt in that situation, it had to kick down quite often just to stay above min speed limit on hills.

oh... the ultragauge doesnt work pretty much at all. when i manually calcuated the 13.8mpg, it said I got 11.2mpg. mph and mileage were both within a few tenths of dead on.

whenever it goes to 'eco mode' the numbers actually go down. gonna have to figure out how to get it to work on it.

11 mpg towing 7000 lbs-very very good at over 60 mph.
Just like Escape said-usually gasoline motors give 8 mpg towing 7000 lbs at 60+ mph.
In fact when these towing folks get that single digit FE
it frequently provokes then to think about spending big bucks to get a diesel!
Doubt a diesel would get much better than 13 mpg towing 7000 lbs at 65-70 mph.
My buddies 3/4 ton Ford with the 7.3 4x4 only got 14mpg hy NOT TOWING (2002 I think)
Charlie

With that kind of weight, I still think its pretty good. My 98 GMC K1500, which weighs nearly 3 tons all by itself, with about 1,500 pounds of motorcycle, luggage, and passengers gets 16 MPG with the cruise set on 70, and that's on E10 fuel too. I'd imagine if I could easily get E0 off of I-95 I could do even better. I will be making the same trip again this spring, and this time I will do active searching and calling stations before I go to setup my fuel stops, and see how much better I can do on E0.

made me feel better, thanks guys!

not sure how much the truck weighs, im guessing around 3tons by itself (4wd quad cab). 4 full size wheels/winter tires is another 300lbs easy, my dad/myself another 400lbs, 100lbs of tools (he planned on driving his vehicle up.. however had a problem that I couldnt fix), 150lbs of luggage. trailer/durango was about 6000lbs.

most of the diesels need some 'tuning' to get that crazy mpg. i have friends that see 20s with their diesels, but they have mods that make them much more fuel efficient than stock (no emissions or inspections in FL).

08escape, what is E10 and E0?

ok, first try! 205.7 miles, 10.94 gals. comes out to 18.8mpg.stop and go, a lil 'playing', and some casual driving (speeds up to 65mph). not too bad so far! i try to keep it in 'econ on' mode as often as possible (which is 4cyl mode). shifting into N and coasting = a longer coast, but it wont go into 4cyl mode then. I need to figure out how to get my ultragauge to work to show the correct mpg in 4cyl mode so I can see which is more FE effective.

made me feel better, thanks guys!

not sure how much the truck weighs, im guessing around 3tons by itself (4wd quad cab). 4 full size wheels/winter tires is another 300lbs easy, my dad/myself another 400lbs, 100lbs of tools (he planned on driving his vehicle up.. however had a problem that I couldnt fix), 150lbs of luggage. trailer/durango was about 6000lbs.

most of the diesels need some 'tuning' to get that crazy mpg. i have friends that see 20s with their diesels, but they have mods that make them much more fuel efficient than stock (no emissions or inspections in FL).

08escape, what is E10 and E0?

E10 is the typical 10% ethanol blend, and E0 is straight gas with no ethanol.

08escape, what is E10 and E0?

E10 is the typical 10% ethanol blend, and E0 is straight gas with no ethanol.

Oops, don't know how I missed that one. Thanks for giving him the answer ksstathead.:woot:

doin ok with it so far. high 17 2nd tankful, mid 18s the other 2. not too shabby for a fullsize truck. im expecting better this tank.

last tankful (18.5mpg) was done shifting into N and coasting to lights/stop signs (or stopped traffic).

this tank will be coasting in D to lights/stop signs or traffic. when i leave it in D it stays in ECO mode (4cyl deactivated), but wont coast as far (trans drags, does not free wheel like my old ram in OD).

carrmann, read almost the entire 17 pages. I'm a dodge guy myself, but haven't really dont much on the truck side. I see those mpg figures and I run in the other direction. Why don't you try dwl? get up to speeed briskly, then keep a light load on the throttle. Use this as your "coasting" instead of putting it in neutral and see how that works out ;). I think this will work better for you if you are not using FAS.

thats essentially what I do now jusbringit. the problem is i often end up in stop/go traffic and at stop signs. I drive with a load (light throttle/constant speed) to the best of my ability, and when i anticipate or see a red light/stopped traffic or what have you i let off and coast.

last time i did it was putting it in N, but when you put it into N it doesnt go into cylinder deactivation mode. I wasnt sure which is more economical.. i should know after this tankful.

most of this driving is max speed of 60mph or so, with stop n go (quite a bit), stop signs, and traffic lights (my area isnt very conducive to good gas mileage.. and there is NO way around my way to work).

18 mpg is pretty good for more or less city driving in a 5500 lbs 4x4 pickup.
It will be interesting to see how it does on the trip north.
Charlie

last tankful was a good one! got ~19.6mpg. same kind of conditions.. just being a little gentler on the throttle, but this time leaving it in D (keeping eco on) instead of putting it into N.

oh.. and my luck reappears i guess. my orders to alaska got cancelled. so I bought this truck for nothing. figures.

Well, that's anticlimactic!

If Alaska is not in your foreseeable future, it's time to think about swapping the QuadCab for a 2013 Dart with a stick. That'd be the easiest way to double gas mileage. :)

Wow!! Life is that way isn't it!!
No way to swap a new vehicle and not end up triple upside down.
Heck the dealer would probably barely let you swap even -$30,000 truck VS $20,000 car
Just hypermile the Hemi!
Besides-the truck is more versatile-and you own it-well you are on the hook for it-
Maybe buy some LITTLE MT BEATER-Prism-2000 maybe-save the miles and mpg on the Hemi
See how easily I spend your $$-get your dad to find a MT little($1500 for him/you) beater
Charlie

Yea.. Im VERY unhappy about it. Been looking forward to/planning for this since roughly september. i was supposed to leave 2 weeks from the day they told me I WASNT going... sigh.

I am going to attempt to sell it. I have it on EBAY and on craigslist. No dice yet tho sadly. I owe right around 27k on it I believe. Window sticker was 35k. If i cant sell it.. I have a nice truck that at least doesnt get Horrid gas mileage.

I will probably get HOSED if I try and trade it in right now... which I would rather not do. Tho the dart is good lucking. I wish they hadnt called it that :mad: . Probably wont not buy anything else anytime soon until i see what they are going to do to me (looks like a retirement, due to medical issues). will just be making an extra 300-400$ a month in payments to get some equity in it so Hopefully I can sell it, or if I have to trade it in (doubtful). The gas savings of a more economical vehicle would be offset by more expensive insurance (i spend about 150$ a month now on fuel with this... adding any vehicle brings my insurance Up between 50-100$ a month lol).

thanks for spending my money btw phoebeisis lol!! i'll do my best to get good mileage in the truck for now :) .