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History repeats .... over and over.



Medieval smokestacks: fossil fuels in pre-industrial times
http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2011/09/peat-and-coal-fossil-fuels-in-pre-industrial-times.html

Thanks Carcus, very educational.

Yes. Thanks. I have it pulled up on my dt and will read it as I have time.

The article left me with the idea that we need nuclear power.

The concluding paragraphs of the linked article:

"Furthermore, we now have an additional renewable energy source that could deliver vast
amounts of thermal energy: solar thermal power (see article "The bright future of solar
powered factories"). The merits of solar thermal heat and concentrated solar power have
been known for centuries, but the materials and industrial processes for large-scale
deployment only became available at the end of the nineteenth century. The same applies to
geothermal power, the potential use of which was previously limited because of a lack of
materials and technology.

"It is obvious that a prosperous future for seven billion people cannot be based on pre-
industrial technology. The key to our success, however, lies in choosing the best of industrial
technology and discarding the rest."

I would add an additional renewable fuel source now under intense development, Fuel from algae. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algae_fuel)

Can we really run a high tech civilization with solar dishes?.. can we even make the solar dishes without a high energy civilization?

Perhaps the key is to go back to a 19th century standard of living but with perks such as refrigeration, medicine, electric lighting and smart phones... plus a lot of bicycles.

The major renewable energy sources are net energy positive and we (humans) haven't tapped anywhere near the limit.

So, the answer is that we might not be able to run society off solar, but we don't have to.

Lots of bicycles ... that gets my vote.
(I'm 750 miles into my bicycle commuter experiment now)

Riding Bikes with the Dutch --[maybe that whole "Peak Peat" thing put them ahead of the curve?]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9RATQKiOZE

Another bicycle video. More to the point, I believe.

Dutch Quest For Practical Bicycles
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84Tgp2ss3o8&feature=related

Hi Carcus:

That was a heck of a good article. I hope more here read it from beginning to end too!

And thankfully we are not consuming Peat, Charcoal or Coal on an individual basis even if coal is still the largest percentage of our daily energy consuming need. According to the EIA, NG is probably going to surpass coal in terms of electrical power production and of course home heating which it has for decades.

EIA Energy Production Stats

In 2010, energy produced in the United States provided about three-fourths of the Nation's energy needs. The remainder of our energy was supplied mainly by imports of petroleum and natural gas. The breakout of total U.S. energy production in 2010 was:
Coal — 30%
Natural gas — 30%
Petroleum (crude oil and natural gas plant liquids) — 19%
Nuclear electric power — 10%
Renewable energy — 10%
The Mix of U.S. Energy Production Changes

The Nation's overall energy history is one of significant change as new forms of energy were developed. The three major fossil fuels — petroleum, natural gas, and coal — have dominated the U.S. fuel mix for well over 100 years. Energy Perspectives provides insights into changing energy production and consumption patterns since 1949. Recent changes in U.S. energy production include:

The share of coal produced from surface mines increased significantly: from 25 percent in 1949 to 51 percent in 1971 to 69 percent in 2010.

In 2010, natural gas production exceeded coal production for the first time since 1981. More efficient, cost-effective drilling techniques, notably in the production of natural gas from shale formations, led to increased natural gas production in recent years.

In 2010, crude oil production increased for the first time since 1970, due in large part to a 40% increase in production from North Dakota. The increase was led by escalating horizontal drilling programs in U.S. shale plays, notably the North Dakota section of the Bakken formation. Operators drilling at shale formations combine horizontal wells and hydraulic fracturing — the same technologies used to significantly increase shale gas production — to boost oil production.

Natural gas plant liquids (NGPL) are liquids that are separated from natural gas at processing plants and used in petroleum refineries. Production of NGPL fluctuates with natural gas production, but their share of total U.S. petroleum production increased from 8% in 1950 to 27% in 2010.

In 2010, total renewable energy consumption and production reached an all-time high of 8 quadrillion Btu. From 2000 through 2010, biofuels and wind grew faster than other renewable energy sources. In 2010, biofuels production was 8 times greater than in 2000, and wind generation was 15 times greater than in 2000.

Things are a changing once again and it is market forces that are making this occur. Meaning price.

Wayne