Archives

And, no, I'm not talking about today's solar eclipse... :p

My commute today went extremely well - I think I only had to come to a dead stop 3 times for lights today. Couple that with 2lbs additional air in the tires (now at 40), a fairly nice day (temp about 41F, a tiny bit humid, no wind), and what I now suspect is summer gas in the tank, and I reached... 62.2mpg for my 20.8 mi commute. (last week saw trips of 60.7 and 59.8 on two other days ) :D

The first 50mpg came easy - I was at 6.5mi into the commute when it arrived, and normally, I'm in the lower- / mid-40's at that point. It's at that point where I get my first indication of 'good mpg day' or 'bad mpg day'.

50-55mpg took until 11mi or so, and 55-60 took almost the rest - I was at > 60 for less than two miles at the end, and pushed it to 62.2 once I hit the office park, where I always cruise EV-mode. I had the iFCD to about 80mpg for a 'maintain speed', and some very nice stretches of 90-100mpg on the display (losing speed gradually - sometimes verrry gradually) :cool: Speed limits are generally about 45mph (I have a range of 30-55 during that 21 miles)

No (real) P&G, no FAS, no intentional use of EV (save for the end), just DWL with appropriate buffers and anticipating conditions ahead. Not sure I can push more than this out of her for the time being. But I've now greatly surpassed what I could do in the Accord - there, I could not get to < 0.5 gal used for the work commute over a full year. I've now surpassed 0.33 gallon used for the commute (!). Ok, 0.3344...but who's counting...ROFL And now I've done it twice in a week, so I'm thinking that 60mpg may become the spring/summer 'norm' ? One can only hope :)

That has a really nice sound to it. But now I'm wondering if I can get to 0.25 gal. used at some point - that would mean 83.2mpg on the display. I don't think I can get there without going to P&G or FAS - P&G is fairly impractical in rush-hour, and I won't FAS the car because of the CVT. But I wanted to share this as further progress toward discovering what the optimum 'normal' capabilities are for this model. Hope someone finds this useful :)

Mark,
Excellent news! Thanks for sharing.

I knew 60's would easily reachable by the new Civic in the spring. It really get you chomping at the bit for warmer weather doesn't it? Where will the upper mpg limit be?

Mark,
Excellent news! Thanks for sharing.

I knew 60's would easily reachable by the new Civic in the spring. It really get you chomping at the bit for warmer weather doesn't it? Where will the upper mpg limit be?

My last four commutes (morning and evening last two days) gave me an average of 60.2 MPG. No FAS. No P&G. The HCH2 has much potential. ;)

Hi Mark and Sledge:

___Excellent results so far … Now let’s start pushing for some real numbers ;) P&G amongst traffic is where the technique excels. Don’t sell it short as it’s the only key I know of to reach 100 + mpg segments and tanks. I have the feeling both of you will see some 80 + mpg segments with FAS’ and LS P&G’s very shortly.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

This is just too amazing -- I ALSO hit a personal best of 60.3 mpg on my trip into work this morning! And what's even funnier is that I was driving in one of my worst, funkiest moods of all time. I was so wrapped up in my problems I actually didn't give a siht about anything, including my driving. I was just driving by habit and not really watching the meters.

Then at 5.3 miles I notice WTF I'm already at 50mpg???? So I said whatever I'm doing just keep doing it. And like you I was just DWL as I usually do, maybe just a teeny bit slower than I usually go. Not doing anything fancy...not that I would know how to do it anyway. Maybe a little more consistent staying at one speed with no hard accelerations or braking. But that iFCD just stayed slammed over to the right or just under, like it was enjoying it there. A few times it went into EV on short downhills. I just held my foot steady and tried to enjoy the ride. I admit being in a touch better mood when I got to work and recorded my mileage.

Congrats to you! And I completely agree, isn't it weird that you can pretty much predict in the first few minutes of driving whether it's going to be a "good mpg" or "bad mpg" day?

No, it wasn't a fluke. This morning I topped yesterdays and got 61mpg.
And Sledge had good run too? What a streak we're having...long may it last

I've said it before and I'll say it again that I believe that of all the hybrids I have driven, the Civic Hybrid offers the best chance for the average consumer to get near EPA rated gas mileage.

You both have easily surpassed the EPA estimates and I'm sure many other people will do the same.

FWIW, I had 60.3 this morning. This evening's commute looks promising. 8 MPH Tailwind, 67F.

Hi Dan:

___Although the Accord will never reach the FE numbers you guys (and gal’s – Tarabell ;)) are achieving, the Accord is sitting at 575 miles and the fuel gauge is just ½ tick under ½ full. If we have good weather and temps tomorrow and Monday, she might see her first 1,000 mile tank of the year at or around 51 - 52 mpg’s? We also had great weather in Chicago this afternoon. 67 - 70 degrees and a 10 - 15 mph tailwind! HS P&G’ed her for all she was worth trying to compensate for the morning 28 - 45 degree F temp drives these past 3 days :(

___If Mark stops by, I can bet he can tell us about his best segment ever this afternoon too! I love this kind of weather :)

___Good Luck

___Wayne

You're right. I did have my best-ever 'return home' commute in this car today - and I stopped off at a local Honda dealer for an oil filter - so I did not drive my standard route. I had thought it was due to lighter (or at least 'neutral' traffic).

Normally, my 'home' commute is about - 4mpg over the 'work' commute. Part of the reason for this is topology, another is traffic (I have a theory that while people start work at different times, they like to go home around the same time of day).

I pulled up yesterday and got 59.1 mpg. I was beside myself, for I knew I had kicked my tank average up because of the great mileage I had (I had a trip mid-day that netted me 56.x mpg, too :)

Today, I pulled in my garage to behold - 61.1 mpg. I did not ever think I would break 60 on the 'return' commute. And yet, I did it today - on an engine with just less than 4000 mi. on it.

At a certain point tonight, I remembered Eric's theory that the Civic was the easiest car to (at least) get EPA in, per his observation - and I thought - it's almost difficult *not* to get at least EPA in this car. But I know I've had a year of training, as well, and I didn't get EPA in the Accord when I first got it. So... I agree with Eric, at least on my own observations - the HCH (2) is made for the type of commute I have (conversely, the Hybrid Accord is the better highway car between the two. My next job *better* not take me over a long stretch of interstate! :mad:

Very pleased with my choice - I could have kept the Accord and paid it off, but took a chance and went with the HCH for the same $. Usually, I'm full of second-guessing my choices. But as long as I'm off the interstate, I know I made the right one, this time :D

Hi Mark:

___Excellent job and thank you for the update. I cannot wait until you begin working with the HCH-II’s internal EV/Glide mode in a LS P&G to discover some of her more interesting “secrets” ;)

___Seeing you, Tarabell, Dan, and Gary punching out incredible FE this week makes me very jealous indeed!

___Good Luck

___Wayne

With what I saw tonight, I'm thinking EV is a 'waste'. I was maintaining traffic flow in certain spots with 90-100 mpg on the iFCD.

When I say 'maintaining flow', I mean that traffic was under the limit, which helps me, because I don't have to drive as fast.

It was also a revelation to see that my normal DWL foot pressure needed to be lightened up even more - what I thought was 'just enough', per the colder temps, was overkill now. EV mode, when it came, lasted longer. But I was definitely travelling with the iFCD pegged, and the ICE running - I know the difference in the sound / feel. So I'm thinking...if one can drive with the thing pegged....why run the battery down ? Actually, I almost hate to see EV, because when it kicks out, you have to adjust to get back into the 'lean burn' territory again.

I also noticed that I could accellerate not just at 50mpg...but at 65mpg. This is significant, because I don't have to bump out of an 'extreme' FE position to pick up speed (you see, I do a P&G of sorts, but I know it's not the 'right' way, etc).

Too bad it's going to rain the next four days :(

64.8mpg this morning. In conditions far from optimal (wind, traffic).

Had they been like a couple of days ago... I would have hit 70, or darned close to it.

Honda's done some nice work with the new LDA2 (1.3L i-VTEC)

how far is your commute? and is your SoC the same when you started? Since its a hybrid I think that detail is just as important as your mpg.

Hi Phil:

___The SoC in a Honda hybrid doesn’t matter so much as it is only worth an extremely small % of ones tank. IMA does try and maintain 1 tick off MAX SoC when out on the highway for an extended period (5 – 7 miles + when warm) and most drive them into the 5/8 - 3/4 range around town. A SoC at ½ or below in the HCH-II is where the IMA drag from a forced charge appears given what I saw 2 months ago in colder temps? In warmer weather, forced charging may happen even further down the dial? Mark, Tarabell, and Terry would give a much more accurate SoC vs. Forced charge appearance, I am sure. Either way, a 64.x mpg segment is a good one given Mark’s commute and I expect to hear him break 70 mpg segments consistently in another month or two.

___Mark, that is a stretch goal of course but now that you have the hypermiling bug, who knows where you will end up ;)

___Good Luck

___Wayne

To answer philmcneal's questions:

a) My commute is 20.8mi, between 55-30mph, on secondary highways, with (at least) 16 stop lights, two sections of two-lane road where traffic backs up for 1/2mi or longer, 4 stop signs. I don't yet know the exact difference in topography between my home and work, but I know work is 'downhill' from home. 1/3 of the route is congested two-lane highway (Lake Co, IL has had population increase exponentially over the last few years, but East-West routes across the county in particular are in dire need of additional capacity).

b) My SoC is generally between 5/8 and 7/8. I generally use 3 bars of assist from a stop, and while accelerating more slowly than 90% of traffic from rest, it lets me accelerate at a rate that doesn't have other drivers irate with me (generally ;) . My big problem is not bleeding the pack dry w/ excessive EV-mode (I only use it at the ends of my commutes, when pulling into office park or housing development), but with not creating sufficient regen as a result of lowering speed (I generally coast down for 80% or better of my stopping distances - especially for the work commute, where I know where the stops will be at).


The nice thing is that I'll often have people follow me at a distance - it's almost like they recognize what I'm doing, and decide to follow suit. I only wish they knew how to manipulate the accelerator pedal for DWL, and see the immediate feedback - I'd have a nice conga line behind me, I think. As it is, I'd like to think of some way to communicate with them what my iFCD is telling me - porting the OBD-II mpg data to an electronic wallboard that I'd put in my rear parcel tray comes to mind, but then it could only display the OBD-II data.

To answer Wayne's questions - Yes - as long as you're 5/8 or better on the meter, you'll not see the 3 bars of 'major' forced charging. However, at 5/8, you'll see one bar of 'minor' charging after almost every acceleration phase, and this will last for 5sec to a minute. It can be defeated with manipulation of the accelerator, if desired. However, since it seems to take less regen (1 bar lasting a few seconds) to replace a 3-bar assist event lasting several seconds, I generally don't defeat it.

If you're unlucky enough to get to 4/8 on the meter, expect to see a 3-bar 'major' forced charge event that will last until at least 6/8 bars are displayed, and sometimes charging up until 7/8 or even full. This generally happens to me about once per week, and while it would not happen if I created more regen by braking, the mileage results I get by coasting are worth the trouble, IMO. At full, the system will bleed down to 7/8 fairly quickly. Most of the time, I'm between 5/8 and 6/8 on the meter.

When I coast down, if I have a long way to go, I will hold the pedal just short of creating regen (which slows me down faster, of course). I'll adjust to allow regen if I see I can make the target before getting to 10mph - because the CVT kicks down into an extremely tall ratio at 10mph, (and a similarly tall ratio at 20mph). If I hit 10mph more than 20ft from the target, it's almost a sure bet that I'll need to press the accelerator to get to the target, because the car will stop almost dead in it's tracks by the time I get to 8mph on a coastdown. Since this can affect the auto-stop logic adversely, I try to avoid this, as I don't like to have to key-off the ignition unless I'm fairly certain of the stopping time (long light which I know the timing of; train, etc).

Hope this clarifies somewhat.

Hi Mark:

___As always, thank you for the very detailed post under a variety of SoC conditions and driving scenario’s.

___Please do not forget we need pics of that first 70 + mpg segment! With warmer temps to arrive in Lake County by Monday, your first 70+ mpg segment may come earlier then would have been imagined a few months ago ;)

___I personally cannot wait to see where your new HCH-II tops out at later on this summer!

___Good Luck

___Wayne

mmm good description, it shows IMA can give HSD a war.

But indeed it is awesome when three cars trail behind you and decides to tag along, I can't wait till everyone starts doing it. No more idling at red lights!

Hi Phil:

___The HCH-I and II have their own particular specialties (lower speed suburban or highway of 30 - 55 mph) but you don’t want to go to war with an HSD pilot that knows what he or she is doing in a lower speed city/suburban environment. An HSD pilot can eat an IMA driver alive at 40 mph and below running stop light to stop light …

___I have said this in the Insight forums and received a ton of not so pleasant replies but I would hate to see a relatively inexperienced Insight’er relying on AS alone going up against an experienced FWD - FEH pilot in the same driving conditions. There could be a lot of IMA pride spread over those same city streets knowing an SUV took it to the woodshed if you know what I mean ;)

___Good Luck

___Wayne