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View Full Version : The dirty secret about clean cars.


xcel
03-28-2007, 10:16 PM
President Bush and the Big Three are pushing cars that run on ethanol. But the policy may be doing more harm than good. (http://www.businessweek.com/autos/content/mar2007/bw20070328_446453.htm?chan=autos_autos+index+page_news)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/2007_E85_Capable_Chevrolet_Impala_with_George_Bush.jpgMoira Herbst - Business Week Online - Mar. 28, 2007

General Motors Chairman and CEO Rick Wagoner gives President George Bush a quick tour around an E85-capable Chevrolet Impala at a White House meeting this week.

President George W. Bush enjoyed a high-profile photo-op Mar. 26 with the heads of the Big Three automakers and their latest clean-car models. The impressive lineup included a General Motors model that can run on ethanol, a plug-in Ford powered by hydrogen, and a DaimlerChrysler (Jeep filled with a biodiesel blend. It was smiles all around as the automakers announced they would make half of America's vehicles ethanol-ready by 2012. "If you want to reduce gasoline usage—like I believe we need to do so for national-security reasons as well as for environmental concerns—the consumer has got to be in a position to make a rational choice," said a beaming Bush.

But there's a dirty secret about clean cars. The policies for flexible-fuel vehicles—those that can run on mixtures of gasoline and more than 10% ethanol—are written in such a way that they result in a number of unintended consequences. One result is that automakers gain some leeway in meeting fuel-economy standards if they produce flexible-fuel cars and trucks. So Detroit's automakers have been pumping out hundreds of thousands of the vehicles, even though most consumers have no access to alternative fuels because they're available at only a fraction of U.S. gas stations.

Here's why that's an issue. Automakers need to meet certain government standards for the fuel economy of their fleets. For flex-fuel cars, fuel economy is calculated based on the assumption that their owners use 50% gasoline and 50% ethanol. But the reality is that just 1% of the nation's flexible-fuel vehicles actually use what's known as E85—85% ethanol and 15% gasoline. The remaining 99% are using good old-fashioned gasoline.

More Greenhouse Gases

The result is anything but green. The more flex-fuel cars and trucks that are produced, the more gasoline is consumed—dramatically increasing greenhouse gas emissions and deepening the country's dependence on petroleum. The Union of Concerned Scientists estimates that without the policy in place, the U.S. would have burned 4 billion fewer gallons of gasoline since 1998. "Automakers have an [economic] incentive to sell cars less efficient than the law requires," says Don MacKenzie, a vehicles engineer for the Union's clean vehicles program.

Environmental advocates aren't shy about voicing their outrage. "It's a total scam," says Dan Becker, director of the Sierra Club's global warming program. "The automakers are trying to shield themselves from having to make more efficient vehicles. They're avoiding the path to cutting oil dependence, curbing global warming, saving consumers money, and ultimately saving Detroit from competitors like Toyota."

The culprit is a 1988 law called the Alternative Motor Fuels Act, which has been extended through 2008. It gives automakers extra credit toward meeting fuel-economy standards for making cars that can run on alternative fuels. It's cheap for automakers to make cars fuel-flexible; it only costs them about $50 per vehicle, whereas actually meeting fuel-economy standards (making cars travel more miles per gallon) can be much more expensive. So in recent years auto companies have been pouring out flexible-fuel, gas-guzzling sport-utility vehicles without worrying too much about fuel economy.

Shortage of Ethanol Pumps

But, as the Bush Administration itself acknowledged in 2002, the consumers who own flex-fuel cars aren't going for alternative fuels. Ethanol-based fuels like E85 are hard to come by, and are only available in certain regions of the country. Only 1,600 of the nation's 176,000 gas stations pump E85, the most popular and commercially viable alternative fuel, says the National Ethanol Vehicle Coalition (NEVC). So the more flexible-fuel vehicles that hit the road without an ethanol pump in sight, the more pure gasoline Americans continue to guzzle.

Ethanol advocates say fuels like E85 are a right-here-right-now solution to reducing oil dependence. "[T]here's nothing that can be done which can reduce the curve of growth in imported oil and actually turn it down like using E85, taking advantage of what's there today," said GM Chairman and Chief Executive Officer G. Richard Wagoner Jr. at the White House event.

They also argue that the mismatch between the size of the flexible-fuel fleet and the availability of ethanol will be solved over time. "You've got to get started somehow," says Phillip Lampert, executive director of the NEVC. Lambert points out that the number of gas stations providing E85 has doubled in the last year, and his group—backed by automakers and ethanol producers—is pushing for bigger tax incentives for fuel retailers.

Still, the conversation that Bush and the Big Three avoided on Mar. 26 was talk of fuel economy. In the short term, it's far cheaper for car companies to keep producing cars that seem environmentally friendly than to re-engineer cars to squeeze out more miles per gallon. Until the U.S. has much broader availability of alternative fuels, old-fashioned gas guzzling will continue to rise into the not-so-green future.

Thanks BrucePick!

AshenGrey
03-29-2007, 05:34 AM
Maryland has exactly FOUR ethanol pumps in the entire state, and only two of them are for public access. What a joke. Corn ethanol is also a joke since the process requires fossil fuels. Bush's energy policy is hollow.

Dan
03-29-2007, 06:37 AM
Good thing those hydrogen fuel cell cars are coming out (next summer right?) ;) . Can't wait for the new Hydrogen Shell stations to arrive either.

This ethanol thing must be a ruse get people back on the Hydrogen economy :p

11011011

Chuck
03-29-2007, 07:17 AM
I'm glad the mainstream media is starting to report this fraud.

Chuck
03-29-2007, 08:24 AM
...more than 3 billion people in the world were condemned to die prematurely of hunger or thirst from plans by his ideological foe, the United States, to convert foodstuffs like corn into fuel for cars

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17850102/

brucepick
03-29-2007, 09:02 AM
I remember reading or hearing that the petrol-sourced energy required to produce ethanol (farm equipment and processing etc.) is greater than the energy ultimately produced by the resulting ethanol.

Does anyone have a reference on that?

BailOut
03-29-2007, 09:36 AM
Here you go, brucepick: http://www.ncga.com/ethanol/debunking/

That link contains info on the report you're looking for as well as (supposed) 3rd party studies that refute the imbalance claim.

This is going to be a tough one to get to the bottom of as we can't trust any of the information completely. The corn growers, oil companies and government bodies all have their own agendas when it comes to ethanol fuel and the university studies are rather cursory.

Wow... deja vu...

brucepick
03-29-2007, 10:07 AM
Thanks, BailOut.

I'm reminded of one of my favorite acronyms:
NFTAAFL
No Such Thing As A Free Lunch!

I wish we could get information that truly was independent.
Oh well, vote with your wallet and vote again on Election Day.

BlueBulletIP
03-29-2007, 10:07 AM
Highly ironic that outsiders may have a clearer picture of the US energy policy (or lack of)
than many Americans?

AshenGrey
03-29-2007, 04:32 PM
Here you go, brucepick: http://www.ncga.com/ethanol/debunking/

That link contains info on the report you're looking for as well as (supposed) 3rd party studies that refute the imbalance claim.

This is going to be a tough one to get to the bottom of as we can't trust any of the information completely. The corn growers, oil companies and government bodies all have their own agendas when it comes to ethanol fuel and the university studies are rather cursory.

Wow... deja vu...

I don't have the reference, but the article I read stated that 70% of ethanol's "green value" was eaten up by the fact that it takes large quantities of fossil fuels to develop the final product. Add to that, you have the fact that ethanol has only 75% of the energy value of gasoline. Thus, your true "green value" of corn-based ethanol is a single-digit percentile.

I believe that cane-based ethanol is a different story, however. You can use much more of the plant, and the stalks can be planted closer together. Unfortunately, most of the United States does not have a good climate for sugar cane.

Chuck
03-29-2007, 04:39 PM
Just a thought: should the resources for gasahol be diverted to power plant supply? My gut feeling is a higher percentage of energy would be used and more oil would be available for gasoline (assuming a significant amount of oil-fired plants).

Even if some of my assumptions are wrong, I'm still wondering if using gasahol for cars is not the most efficient use.

brucepick
03-29-2007, 05:02 PM
Just a thought: should the resources for gasahol be diverted to power plant supply? My gut feeling is a higher percentage of energy would be used and more oil would be available for gasoline (assuming a significant amount of oil-fired plants)...

I like that.

If our economy weren't tricked by the large amounts of subsidies for fuel and agricultural products, the lack of efficiency in the current setup would find its own remedy. Supply and demand would cause our resources to be used most efficiently. Instead, our "free market economy" is hobbled by subsidies and we suffer the consequences.

Not that I'm a proponent of raw unbridled capitalism. But when we put subsidies in place we have to watch out for unintended effects and correct them somehow.

xcel
04-07-2007, 03:03 PM
Hi All:

___When getting this ready last month, I was originally going to use the latest Ford Edge HySeries H2FC/PHEV for the pic but it did not fit the story so I used GM’s Wagoner filling up an FFV capable Impala w/ Ethanol during the same meeting with President Bush instead. Well, there was a bit more to the story some may find interesting …

Ford Edge HySeries - The dirty secret about clean cars. (http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/showphoto.php/photo/2926/cat/501) and GM Impala FFV - The dirty secret about clean cars. (http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/showphoto.php/photo/2927/cat/501)

Plug it in; fire it up, Mr. President.

Ford President Alan Mulally, right, had to be quick on his feet to make sure President Bush plugged a power cord into the right socket on a Ford hydrogen-electric plug-in hybrid. (http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070407/AUTO01/704070338/1148)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/Bush_Plugs_in_Ford_Edge_H2_-_PHEV.jpgDetroit News - April 7, 2007

Credit Ford Motor Co. CEO Alan Mulally with saving the leader of the free world from self-immolation.

Mulally told journalists at the New York auto show that he intervened to prevent President Bush from plugging an electrical cord into the hydrogen tank of Ford's hydrogen-electric plug-in hybrid at the White House last week. Ford wanted to give the Commander-in-Chief an actual demonstration of the innovative vehicle, so the automaker arranged for an electrical outlet to be installed on the South Lawn and ran a charging cord to the hybrid. However, as Mulally followed Bush out to the car, he noticed someone had left the cord lying at the rear of the vehicle, near the fuel tank.

"I just thought, 'Oh my goodness!' So, I started walking faster, and the President walked faster and he got to the cord before I did. I violated all the protocols. I touched the President. I grabbed his arm and I moved him up to the front," Mulally said. "I wanted the president to make sure he plugged into the electricity, not into the hydrogen This is all off the record, right?"

___Good Luck

___Wayne

tarabell
04-11-2007, 05:36 PM
Credit Ford Motor Co. CEO Alan Mulally with saving the leader of the free world from self-immolation.
Turns out Mulally made up the story as a joke.
http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=domesticNews&storyid=2007-04-11T191736Z_01_N11231422_RTRUKOC_0_US-FORD-BUSH-JOKE.xml&src=rss&rpc=22



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