Archives

As regular readers will recall, last Monday I posted a thread about going 63.9 miles on one charge in my Chevy Volt. For the entire trip I slowly accelerated in D to 40MPH, dropped it into N to coast down to 25MPH, then back to D to slowly climb back to 40MPH etc. My average speed for the trip was 32 MPH.

Today I tried a different method: Set the cruise control to 32 (in Drive) and forget it.

Started out at 5AM, 72 degrees.

http://robbinsmail.com/photo%20(29).jpg

http://robbinsmail.com/photo%20(30).jpg

You'll note I started with 41 miles of electric range because yesterday I made a 300 mile trip going 65 MPH, so the computer wasn't expecting me to drive slowly. But it quickly recalculated! After a full 16 miles of driving at 32 MPH, the battery icon had removed two green bars, but it now showed 46 miles of electric range!

http://robbinsmail.com/photo%20(28).jpg

Ended 2 hours and 22 minutes later and 72.9 miles later (avg. calculated speed = 30.8 MPH). Ending temp 75.

http://robbinsmail.com/photo%20(31).jpg

http://robbinsmail.com/photo%20(25).jpg

The two changes since my last hypermiling attempt were the driving style and the temp, which was about 15 degrees warmer today. The rest of the variables were the same: Same road, same average speed. No Mountain Mode, no additional charging. Tires at 51 PSI. No climate control, radio, or headlights. Windows up. Round trip to eliminate elevation impact.

If you study the screenshots carefully, you'll note that I started with 66 miles of gasoline range, and ended with 89 miles of gasoline range, so it appears that the gas range is re-calculated based on driving habits just as the electric range is. Could be dangerous if you are driving 35 MPH for an hour and a half, then start going 75 MPH, your range is going to drop quickly.

Now I'm wondering what it would look like with cruise set to 25 MPH the whole time. And also what 35 MPH and 40 MPH would look like...

Congrats :thumbs_up: for reaching 208.3% of range (72.9mi vs EPA's 35mi)
Are you the first one to double the official range of a BEV ?

As Sean said, DWL is more effective with an electric as the efficiency of the electric motor is more equal from low to high rev.

Thanks a lot for sharing the experiment.

Keep up the good work and show the world what can be done with a "35mi range BEV".

Have fun,

Denis.

Congrats on the excellent work!

Now that's more like it!! :D

Way to go, Bill!! :woot:

Nice to know the gasoline range is recalculated quickly in unison with electric regardless of mode.

I would like to know what the kWh used was so we can calculate the MPGe. :D We know the Prius is good for about 115 MPG and MPGe. Just wondering what the Volt can do.

What is an average kWh used to recharge from a drained battery?

This comes as no surprise. :D

Damn, lifetime mpg went from 64.7 mpg to 65.4. That's a pretty big jump.

Wow, great work! :):thumbs_up:

mpge is one off those useless numbers since electricity at the socket is locally made and low cost, I would like to know the mpg on imported fuel? :)

The Leaf supposedly gets max range at 38mph, the Tesla Roadster at 17mph.. no idea about the Volt but it was probably designed around the LA-4 cycle

72.9- wow!
Even if it took 14KWHrs to refill it- it would be under 200WHs per miles-2 cents per mile at 10 cents per KWHr-
or even where electricity is expensive-20 cents per KWHr- still just 4 cents per mile.
A 45 mpg Prius is 8 cents per mile(at $3.60 gallon)-and it is the best we have in the USA.

How much energy would it use at 60 mph-level hy-cruise control set??
Maybe 350 watt hrs per mile?

72.9- wow!
Even if it took 14KWHrs to refill it- it would be under 200WHs per miles-2 cents per mile at 10 cents per KWHr-
or even where electricity is expensive-20 cents per KWHr- still just 4 cents per mile.
A 45 mpg Prius is 8 cents per mile(at $3.60 gallon)-and it is the best we have in the USA.

He'd be getting much better than 45mpg in a Prius driving like that. ;)

I would like to know what the kWh used was so we can calculate the MPGe. :D We know the Prius is good for about 115 MPG and MPGe. Just wondering what the Volt can do.

What is an average kWh used to recharge from a drained battery?

I have a TED device attached to my 240V charger, and I usually see 12.0 kWh go in to a full recharge. But the EPA window sticker says 12.6 kWh, so let's go with that.

72.9 miles / 12.6 kWh = 5.786 miles per kWh.

EPA says 33.7 kWh = 1 gallon of gas.

5.786 miles in one kWh X 33.7 = 195 MPGe.

Actually seems a little high.

Thats about 172Wh per mile. Thats pretty damn good for the weight of that car. Judging by the weight of the car and the ~172Wh per mile you got I doubt the car can do much better than that.

Thats about 172Wh per mile. Thats pretty damn good for the weight of that car. Judging by the weight of the car and the ~172Wh per mile you got I doubt the car can do much better than that.

Agreed Jay. It looks like terrain and temps may be the biggest factors for someone who is purposefully driving for maximum efficiency.

If you have a chance, pls compare your D-then-N strategy with
simply holding your foot in the null region between push and regen
if it isn't too much of a pain. I'd be interested in knowing
if there are any losses by keeping the inverter actively following
things even if the net flow is supposed to be 0 [and assuming
that neutral shuts off motor-drive either way, like in a Prius,
but I could be way off base about that].
.
_H*

72.9- wow!
Even if it took 14KWHrs to refill it- it would be under 200WHs per miles-2 cents per mile at 10 cents per KWHr-
or even where electricity is expensive-20 cents per KWHr- still just 4 cents per mile.
A 45 mpg Prius is 8 cents per mile(at $3.60 gallon)-and it is the best we have in the USA.

Awesome results exploring the real world limits of the Volt! If we use the real world 74mpg warm weather avg. of me driving my Gen II Prius, it's 4.9 cents per mi. @ $3.60/ gal. So not a bad comparison to the cost / mi. to drive an EV.

It angered me that Toyota seemed to drag their feet when it came to EV/PHEV production.

Over the years as I learned to max my driving efficiency, I realized that Toyota was right to hold off until EV/PHEV reliability & cost could be comparable to the already very efficient Prius. Even at the 50mpg that most people get @ $3.60/ gal. that's only 7.2 cents/ mi.

Hi Bill:

Congrats on the spectacular run and if I was allowed to setup a Volt event drive, you will be receiving a call. The next time I am in the Madison area, let us compare notes and I bet you will bust into the high 70's all-electric range in your own Volt!

Marzprius, there is something about driving a VOLT in CD mode that the Prius simply cannot match. As most here know, I really like to drive Prius’ but the Volt is something special. Whether it is the Volt’s excellent road feel, knowledge that you are not consuming any foreign oil supplies (for all intents and purposes, no locally supplied oil either) or the fact it is a really sharp looker, a Prius is not a competitor to the Volt for 60 to 80% of an individual’s driving routine. There is a certain draw to the Volt called “soul” that the Prius simply does not supply.

Fortunately we are talking about two excellent, low fuel consumption automobiles and owning either proves you made a really smart choice for yourself and the rest of us.

Wayne

You should remember that the design parameters for a PHEV and an HEV are quite different in respect to traction motor power, ICE size, max EV speed and of course HVB and charger size. The HEV is all about thermodynamic efficiency of the ICE, the PHEV is not. I hear the Toyota engineers were against the Prius PHEV and marketing over-ruled them.
On a slightly different note, what happens if you put 87 octane in a Volt?

Hi Lolder:

From what I know today, the Prius PHEV and HEV use the same everything other than the charger and larger bi/tri-segmented pack.

Regarding the Volt, it is definitely in a league of its own.

Wayne

I would expect that that was the simplest manufacturing conversion. The MG1 maximum RPM would be the biggest change but that may have been a technical motor windings issue that they solved. I expect that the top speed and acceleration are de-rated. The Prius was such a successful design that stretching it a little was feasible. The Volt has a more properly sized ICE and Traction motor for a PHEV. The X-Prize 100 mpg. winner that weighed 800 lbs. shows the difficulty in achieving much over 60 mpg. in a real world 5 seat, air-conditioned turnpike cruiser. It's interesting how more cars are approaching the Prius body design. My early FFH tests showed an almost linear inverse relationship of MPG. to MPH. yielding 64 mpg. at 30 mph. That would extrapolate to over 70 mpg. at 20 mph. I think you were involved in the 2008 FFH 81 mpg demo that I think averaged about 21 mph. so you guys did some additional stuff, I guess. Getting car weights down below 2000 lbs. is going to get expensive with carbon fiber and electronic shocks, etc. The HVAC is the big killer over 50 mpg. Pumping heat is expensive.

Hi Lolder:

MG1's 9,500 RPM limit is still intact and without a gear reduction. The current Gen III's 9,500 RPM limits are limits at just under 60 mph, not 41 to 45 as the HEV is being throttled to for current reasons, not RPM limitations. One the ICE is running, there are no MG1 limitations because it is well within its band.

The Prius v has a secondary cooling loop for MG2 although not MG1 and I suspect the production Prius PHEV will incorporate that as well.

Regarding the FFH, it is also a nice highway cruiser as it allowed 62 mpg over a mostly highway, 1,000-mile tank in the same summer following the Fusion Challenge.

The VOLT was built as a full range PHEV with no limitations to speed other than max “Q” ;) The Prius PHEV is limited to 62 mph on the pack and as a PHEV, it is intended to be driven as a blended mode hybrid to reduce fuel consumption at a price people can afford.

Wayne

I'm not sure what you were doing in your FFH, Lolder... but my wife's returned just barely under 50mpg when using DWL around 60mph, with a fully loaded vehicle, and with the AC on. With just me and a whole lot less use of the AC (;)) it will return comfortably over 50mpg in the same circumstances.

at 55 mph i get about 50 miles on battery

Hi Wittesvolt:

That is almost identical to what we received during our Review of GM's moon shot.

CleanMPG Reviews the 2011 Chevrolet VOLT (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?p=311579)

Wayne