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So, wife and I are ready to replace her 99 Grand Prix. She wants a minivan for the space, I'm resigned to the fact that that's all we can afford most likely.

My choices (in descending order):

Mazda5, Kia Rondo, Ford Freestyle/Taurus X, Volvo Wagon w/jumpseat, Minivan.

Minivans (in descending order of desire):

Hyundai Entourage
Kia Sedona
Ford Windstar/Freestar
GM
Chrysler

I don't know where I'd put Honda, Toyota, Nissan.

Ugh, choices....Man, those XC70's are REALLY REALLY nice...

I didn't want a minivan because of MPG and they're fat lard-balls when it comes to size. Then, I was curious. So I looked up some things.

Grand Prix:
Length: 197 inches
Width: 72 inches

Grand Caravan (Dodge)
Length: 202 inches
Width: 74 inches

WHAT????? Well, I guess I can't argue about size anymore....hmm...The short wheelbase Chevy Ventures are only 187 inches...

Overall I agree with your list.
Honda and Toyota minivans I'd put at the top of the list, except the price is up there as well. :(

From my recent experience, I'd go with as small as you can get away with now. It'll be easier later to do a lateral move to something good like a Prius V or such, than it will to "downsize" from a full-sized not-mini van. That's where I'm stuck right now. Even a Mazda5 is seen as "too small".

Volvo's are nice but the routine maintenance costs on the newer FWD's and AWD's can be high. Volvo's depending on the year and model have been having serious transmission problems. If you are interested in one do an Internet search to make sure the year and model your looking at isn't a bad one.

Overall I agree with your list.
Honda and Toyota minivans I'd put at the top of the list, except the price is up there as well. :(

From my recent experience, I'd go with as small as you can get away with now. It'll be easier later to do a lateral move to something good like a Prius V or such, than it will to "downsize" from a full-sized not-mini van. That's where I'm stuck right now. Even a Mazda5 is seen as "too small".

There's an argument for large utility when it's cheaper to run 1 large vehicle than 2 Priuses. But given that 2 Priuses are more efficient* than 1 mini-van, there's something wrong with mini-vans. Plus, 2 Priuses allows you to separate the children better. ;)

* Overall.

LOL at separating the children. :p

Really, though, what about the Prius?

Are you looking sat brand new, or used?

It'll be used. Nothing over 7k, so that it can be talked down. My zip is 18603; 50 miles is good. Willing to look around 18103 as well, that's work's zip.

Wife hates the Prius. That fact notwithstanding, 3 car seats don't go in a Prius any easier than the current cars we have.

Gotta have 5 FULL seats, not 4 seats and a "squish" for a 5th. :)

ALS - thanks for that on the Volvos. Wife is starting to settle on "minivan." Not looking good...

Bright side is, it'd see probably only 4000-7000 miles per year.

There are deals to be had on minivans, but the used car market is still hot, and prices are still unrealistic.

A quick search of CL, asking myself "what would I buy if I needed a minivan" netted two NY area options - A '99 Voyager with 36k original and FL plates ("Grandma's van" aka Palm Beach Parambulator) for 3950, and an '06 Sedona for 5900 that doesn't list miles (and their timing belts are very expensive to replace) but looks like it's in good shape. The scranton/poconos/allentown areas have nothing for vans other than off-lease dealer mark-up overpriced auction cars. I also saw an '03 Odyssey with 110k, asking 7600, but that's more likely to need a new (and more expensive) transmission than the Voyager that has 1/3 the mileage.

With my "what would I buy" thinking cap still firmly bolted in place, I would suggest placing the emphasis on service history (best bet - car owned by a good mechanic) rather than exterior/interior condition or mileage on the odometer.

I found a steal of a van for a friend of mine last spring. It had 103k on the clock, but it had all the belts and maintenance done, synthetic oil throughout its life, plugs changed, trans fluid changed with proper fluid, etc. The guy was a maintenance nut. The van was in beautiful condition even at 9 years old. I told my friend if he didn't buy it, I would. He snagged it for $2800. And it runs flawlessly and has needed nothing but new tires (I got him a set of Fuel Max tires and it really glides well). Moral of the story - Keep an eye out and wait for the right one. Don't settle. I shopped for months before I found what I thought was a good deal. And almost a year later, it has turned out to be a fantastic car.

'03 Odyssey with 110k, asking 7600, but that's more likely to need a new (and more expensive) transmission

Good point. Be sure to ask about it. The '02-'04 Ody's with the 5AT are the trouble ones. Mine failed at 30k, at the dealer for an oil change. :p Fixed for free under warranty. It's a 100k warranty so that '03 is past the mark.

Not sure if it's wide enough across the back, but you might look at the Focus Wagon. With 95+36cf of passenger+cargo space, they're almost as big as a Volvo wagon, but with better mpg and a smaller, more maneuverable overall package. Not to mention cheaper maintenance, as reliability got pretty decent starting with the '04s and especially '05s. A relatively newer one should be obtainable within your price range. One concern would be the poor side impact test, but as a fellow potential car shopper in your price range I've found it difficult to find cars with solid side crash ratings at this price.

You could also look at a Subaru Legacy or Outback. Of course the AWD is an unneeded drag on the mpg, but it would still be quite a bit better on gas than any minivan, and would be wider across the back seat than the Focus. Reliability is pretty good overall (my experiences with older Subarus were fantastic, averaging 6-8c/mi for maintenance), with a few caveats: (1) the 2.5L engines that became nearly universal in Subarus for the past decade have a very high rate of head gasket failure, especially as they hit 5-6 years of age. (2) high rate of CV joint and wheel bearing problems. (3) Inherent in any AWD vehicle, transmission and clutch work is much more expensive because of the extra hours of labor in removing and reinstalling the driveline.

You could also look at a 2002-2006 Honda CR-V. I could be wrong, but I have the impression they're a tad wider than your typical midsize car or small SUV. Mpg is not fantastic at 20/24mpg (post-2008 rating), but better than a van. Also, as an automatic buyer there's a chance you could score one of the rare 2WD editions of this vehicle, which jumps to 26mpg hwy. Obviously reliability would be top-notch, though a handful of people have had $2000 HVAC failures on this car.

Finally, you could consider an older Highlander. According to Edmunds the 2001 base 2.4L model goes for around $7k.

We'll be headed out shopping this weekend.

My area has ZERO Honda/Nissan/Toyota minivans in our price range for sale. I've been checking using Vast as well as forays into Craigslist.

My wife is definitely wanting a van, for the headroom. It's replacing a car that's not good on gas, and travels very little, so when it does go anywhere the P-MPG would be high (almost always moving 4 or more people).

I won't go older than 2000, and 6k is about the top we want to spend. My gram has a Focus wagon; 3 carseats across the back would kill it same as my current Elantra. Here's what I've found that we'll be after on Saturday:

2004 Sedona (http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp?tracktype=usedcc&csDlId=&csDgId=&listingId=46933416&listingRecNum=1&criteria=prMx%3D7000%26sf1Dir%3DASC%26prMn%3D0%26stkTyp%3DU%26bsId%3D20220%26rd%3D40%26crSrtFlds%3DstkTypId-feedSegId-bsId-pseudoPrice-pseudoYear%26zc%3D18603%26rn%3D0%26PMmt%3D0-0-0%26stkTypId%3D28881%26sf2Dir%3DDESC%26sf1Nm%3Dlocation%26yrMn%3D2001%26sf2Nm%3Dprice%26rpp%3D100%26feedSegId%3D28705&aff=national)

2002 Sedona (http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp?tracktype=usedcc&csDlId=&csDgId=&listingId=44980787&listingRecNum=2&criteria=prMx%3D7000%26sf1Dir%3DASC%26prMn%3D0%26stkTyp%3DU%26bsId%3D20220%26rd%3D40%26crSrtFlds%3DstkTypId-feedSegId-bsId-pseudoPrice-pseudoYear%26zc%3D18603%26rn%3D0%26PMmt%3D0-0-0%26stkTypId%3D28881%26sf2Dir%3DDESC%26sf1Nm%3Dlocation%26yrMn%3D2001%26sf2Nm%3Dprice%26rpp%3D100%26feedSegId%3D28705&aff=national)

For the Sedona, keep in mind the cost of the timing belt/tensioner/water pump swap at 90-100k. If the car is an around-towner, it will take a few years before you reach that stage.
The rest of the car has proven to be reliable, with only a few mentions of CV joint issues on some earlier vans.

I did the belt change on my Elantra; wasn't too bad. No idea how the 3.5L V6 compares to my little 2.0L 4-pot, though.

I did the belt change on my Elantra; wasn't too bad. No idea how the 3.5L V6 compares to my little 2.0L 4-pot, though.

Google 'sedona timing belt change' - There are a lot of people who tried it and then recommended that others go to the dealer for the service. I went through that when my friend was looking for a minivan and I did a little digging into the Sedona to see if there were any major headaches to be expected. The issue seems to be clearance in the stubby minivan engine bay, and the special tools needed to keep all four cams and the crank aligned when changing the belt. It's an interference engine, so there is no room for error.

Of course, that can also be a good bargaining tool, since you can tell any seller that the van is facing a $1200 service and so it's worth that much less. Having the belt done yourself would mean another 100k miles with a known-good belt and tensioner and water pump (while everything is opened up) and so that much less to worry about for maintenance.

Just as Hyundai has the tech/service manuals up on http://hmaservice.com, there's one for Kia called http://kiatechinfo.com.

I looked at the belt change part of the shop manual (free! I love HyunKia!) and WOW. Yeah, I love 4-pots. V-6's SUCK for working on - too big, too many cams, cylinders, etc. No Thanks - I wouldn't be doing that timing belt change myself.

I'm going to go poke an '03 Mazda MPV on my lunch break today. I have a feeling though that we'll come home with one of the Kias - and for less than they're asking as well.

I thought the 06 had a chain? In fact, I'm pretty positive they do. I'd stay away from the < 06 Sedona as there are just a slew of problems with the line (leaky heater lines to the rear, timing belt, etc). Personally, my 06 Sedona has been quite solid. It is just piss poor on gas no mater what you do... but then, I'm almost always loaded to the roof with kids/stuff (seats seven, we cart around seven).

Looks like a chain according to this http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/2006-to-2010-kia-sedona-2.htm

The '06 Sedona does have a timing chain, but the prices on them are out of the price range quoted earlier. The Gen-1 Sedona is a safer bet than a Windstar/Freestar or an Ultradrive Mopar. The Mopar minivan - up to 2001 - with the 2.4L and 3AT is the safest bet of Caravoyagers, but still have the looming belt replacement cost (unless it has a fresh belt) and the note that some of those 2.4s still enjoy snacking on head gaskets.

Honda/Toyota are also priced out of range, except for some early-decade hi-mi Odyssey vans that are likely due for a timing belt and transaxle.

You might consider the Dodge minivans.They are USUALLY the lowest priced for year/miles.
The Ford and Chevy minivans are pretty cheap also.

The QC of Dodge(and the AT transmissions which in the 1990's lasted about 50,000-60,000 miles) improved in the 2000's.
Same story on the Ford(you might find one with a Japanese designed engine-not HUGE Ford fan, but there was overlap with Mazda I think).
The Ford and Chevy are generally poorly rated by CR for various reasons, but they are CHEAP to buy and you might find a reliable one(survivor bias- or just a conscientious owner who repaired everything with updated parts)

Consider Dodge , Ford-and maybe GM----------in that order.
A 2006 Dodge with 75,000 miles might go for $6000.
The Korean stuff from 2002 didn't have the QC or engineering that the Korean "stuff' has now.
Check CR for reliability etc