Archives

Well had my first commute today with the Insight. 73mpg on the way in and 76mpg total for the day. Not bad considering traffic was brutal in the morning, parking outside until I sell the smart and cold at 39 (for AZ;)). Actually I should say that is awesome, with better conditions and some practice I could double what I was getting in the smart. Was able to hold 100mpg for several miles at just under 60MPH.

I did have a couple of quick questions:

Tire tread - previous owner changed tires at 63k miles, but there does not seem to be alot of tread left, or possible these tires don't have alot of tread from the start, not sure. Honda dealer put it at 5/32 on the last oil change she did. How many miles do I have left on those?

Oil Change - owner was nice enough to do the oil change just before selling and was using synthetic - changed at77k and next scheduled for 83k. What should be the service intervals with synthetic and can I use mobil 1 or do you have to use Honda's oil?

If you get IMA codes, is it ok to reset? I assume you should only leave the major code that states your battery is done - ok to reset all others.

Have about 5 bars left on gas gauge. How accurate are they and how far past last bar can you go

Spark plug - I don't think this is needed until just over 100k, any benefit in doing earlier? Also can you do this yourself or better to have the dealer do it?

Why is there a seperate mpg gauge called FCD? Will probably use for Oil change reminder.

Outside of the engine temp, the scangauge is really not needed. Lean burn is fairly easy to see on the gauge and have more mpg gauges than I need - one is current tank, second will be daily and FCD will be miles since last oil change.

Also notice that EPA uses old system for this year. Do most do a conversion to the new system or is that the way it is for all older cars?

Can't help on the tread question but the oil should be 0W-20 — most use Mobil 1 as that is the most easily available. I just follow the Maintenance Minder. It is just a simple miles counter and will remind you to change every 7500 miles. It starts blinking around 7000 and then goes on solid at 7500.

The gas gauge is accurate. Once the last bar disappears you can drive about another 3 bars worth before fumes run out. I figured out once how much gas each bar represented based on miles and mileage and it was predictable (but I don't remember what it was at the moment).

Don't worry about the plugs until 105K — they are a special, long shank, indexed plug. The block is marked A, B, or C to indicate the correctly indexed plug. Purchase from a Honda dealer and match the plugs with the cylinder letters so that the spark is oriented properly for optimal lean burn performance. They have to be torqued to exact spec. Might want to let the dealer do it for you.

The FCD readout is a "segment" meter. I use it for each trip. Trip A is for my day total, and I use B for the tank.

I use my SG to show instantaneous mpg (to see how lean I'm running), air intake temp, coolant temp, and 12V status. You want to keep an eye on that last if you are FASing because as discussed on the phone you can't bump/clutch/push start this car with a dead 12V. There is no alternator and if there isn't enough voltage to activate the relays allowing power from the big battery you aren't going anywhere (nothing to make a spark). Don't let it get too low or you'll need a (normal) jump start. Get enough voltage to open the relays and you'll be able to drive.

Use the original EPA ratings in the logs. We go by the sticker that came with the car.

Your numbers so far are spot on and will only go up as you learn to drive the car to its fullest potential! :thumbs_up:

Seems like the bars last about as long as the bars on the smart - only difference is this car has twice the bars.

I noticed something odd today. After a bump start the instant MPG gauge go stuck on 0 and when I lifted my foot of the accelerator, go stuck on 150mpg – stayed there while I was stopped. Full shutdown and a restart fixed the problem. Anyone else experience this?

Also, when doing FAS, volts are showing 11.6 vs 13.5 with car on. Is that normal?

Hi, Gabe — yes to both questions. For the stuck gauge it is sufficient to flip the key to ACC and then back to ON again as fast as you can… much faster than you'd need to actually get the engine to stop. If you leave it stuck your trip average will get very inflated very fast. ;) (We play fair around here and actual fill will tell the real story. :D)

I've found the smallish 12V drops pretty fast in a FAS; there are a lot more electronics to run than in other cars. My Elantra for example won't drop under 12V for quite a long time without the lights on.

My take and additions. Glad to have you in the Insight camp.

Mileage
Well, I wish I could get that mileage, but the CVT doesn't even approach without PnG.

Tires
On mine, that tread would be about half gone as a close guess. I always try to rotate the tires front to back as my fronts wear a lot faster than the rears do. That may be alignment even though I check and fix it regularly.

Oil
I use Honda standard and change at Honda. This is mainly keeping them involved, for possible warranty issues, and the fact that when I got it there was no other 0-20 oil available. I expect it cost a bit more money. Also they sometimes leave it running and/or use the A/C. It kills mileage for that trip and would be even worse for manuals.

Gas
I plan for 14 miles after the last bar goes out. When I fill up it puts me at 10 gallons to fill. A good spot for quick MPG math. I have not yet run out of gas, so the bars after is good info for me. Thanks Sean. The bars seem pretty regular and equal to set amounts of gas. There is a time before the first bar goes dark after a fill-up that is greater than normal. Parking on a slight hill nose up seems to make a low tank read one bar lower. It then comes back during normal driving on a flat road.

Spark Plugs
Yes they are matched. Not being mechanically inclined, I would let an experienced dealer do it.

FCD
The FCD is easy to reach and reset. No need to stick your hands through the steering wheel. I use it for distance and MPG on each "trip" driveway to driveway. I use "A" and "B" for one and two tank totals resetting the two tank one and making it the next one tank measurement. This gives me a quick grasp on if I am doing better or not when I fill up. If your one tank MPG is less than the two tank, then you have been bad (or it has gotten colder). :)

Oil change
I do 7500 miles. Multiples of this are 15K and 30K. I base this all on the total mileage gauge and don't use the resettable ones. The check engine light comes on as an extra reminder to you. I have never needed to refill or top-off the oil. As it ages, I might be using more, so this may change.

For a long time I was confused about what a scangauge was. I first thought it came standard in the Insight (the MPG readout). I still don't have one, but am breaking down.

I hope this helps.

Not having to reach through the steering wheel. Never thought about that.

Sean - I was actually at 82 before this happened and the gague did go up to 83.4. Tank will not be as good as I have just under 500 miles at 64MPG and the total will be about 630-650 miles.

For those that have installed FAS, when you use it does it just stop the enginge or do you get the blinking green light stating the car is in AS? The reason I ask is I find myself trying to trigger AS as I will not be able to bump start the car in stop and go traffic when I know I am going to make a full stop.

If I am coasting at 15 MPH and have the clutch pressed in and apply just a bit a brakes I can trigger AS and keep coasting - can't let the clutch go until full stop. Would be nice to avoid braking, but don't want to have to key on after each stop even though there is no difference mechanically vs AS.

Also will Mima allow forced regen all the way to 0mph or do you have to keep downshifing similar to not having MIMA?

I am usually in the high 60s in stop and go traffic and there is some waste there with the limited options I currently have, trips are now over 80mpg for the most part so will see how the next tank turns out. Still had two bars on the last fill, but figured i would get gas since it is out of my way and I had to pick up something on the way home.

Hi, Gabe! I'm glad you are enjoying your new car. :)

The FAS button won't trigger the AS light unless you are under the normal 21 mph limit for that feature and have applied the brakes at least once with decent pressure. I can't always get the light to come on but the above is the closest I've been able to narrow down the behavior to defined.

You still have to downshift with MIMA and you won't be able to regen down to zero without stalling the engine. Because the motor/generator is bolted to the crankshaft you'll have to have the engine turning to generate any electricity. You could put it in neutral and force regen with MIMA I suppose but that would use fuel — not what you want.

The easiest way to engage regen is to get into deceleration fuel cut with regen, then drop straight to nuetral while pressing and holding the clutch pedal. Since you are already in fuel cut the engine just spins to a stop with no fuel use. You should be able to do this right around 21 mph. I like to get into 2nd gear around 24 mph, get regen with fuel cut and ride that down to about 12 mph… at which point I pop the clutch and trigger AS so that I can slow the rest of the way with the physical brakes and no fuel. (Regen drops out at about 11 mph in 2nd.) Otherwise, I will drop into AS right at 21 mph and coast. It will stay in AS up to whatever speed you can coast to — no limits like the other hybrid architectures because the motor is physically disengaged. So you could coast down a mountain in AS without the engine coming on (as long as the coolant temperature doesn't drop to far and you don't run out of braking vacuum).

There is another nice feature of the clutch switch we chatted about. Get into AS with the clutch pedal pressed, then engage the clutch switch and leaving the car in neutral let out the clutch. The engine won't come on because the computers still think the pedal is pressed. Better for the throw out bearing, too.

Get creative with coasting and throw in a little P&G (without assist!)… your city numbers will come right up into unbelievable territory. ;)

Will probably get the clutch switch. Sounds like that will serve a couple of purposes. Where can I purchase one?

You can't purchase one but if you can solder it is only a few dollars in parts. I just used what I had around the house: some old telephone wire, a plastic film canister with lid, and an old computer power supply rocker switch. Then:


I cut a hole in the lid the right size for the switch (which has snap in type tabs on it so I just had to press it into place)
Stripped the insulation off of two of the four wires in the telephone cable and soldered them to the switch
Snapped the switch into the lid, tied a loose half knot in the telephone wire for strain relief, fed the wire through a hole I cut in the bottom of the canister and snapped the lid on
Stripped the insulation on the same two wires at the other end of the telephone cable and fed them over the back of the coin tray to the left of the steering wheel
Unplugged the clutch switch and ran the wires under the plug's clip and into the connector holes in the plug, then plugged it back in to make a pinch connection
Coiled the extra wire in the coin tray, dropped the film canister into it, and shut the tray

To use it, I'd just open the tray, hold the canister like a dead man's switch in my left hand, and work the switch with my thumb. Other people have mounted the switch in one of the block off plates above the coin tray and most just shove the stripped back wires into the back of the clutch switch plug where they see the stock wiring go and just rely on friction to maintain the connection. Others have soldered to the wires under there. I did it the way listed above because I wanted it completely reversible but with a more secure connection than pushing into the back of the plug.

I no longer use this set up as I added another switch to my shift lever and ran a new wire when I added the FAS button. I'd send it to you but I already gave it to a local Insight driver.

Nice. Can sodder, but probably need a switch as I don't have any old type switched around the house. Will have to check out radio shack, or online as I can get failry cheap there.

Sorry for these random questions, but something pops in my head and I don't want to forget it - the temp per scangauge is always at 195 when warmed up. I want to make sure I am not at the point that the fan kicks in - just wondering as any condition I drive in results in 195 when warmed up.

Anyone have a good suggestion for a grill block? I was thinking of doing the styrofoam interlocking mats (someone posted online), but local store only has bright colors in stock and want something gray that will not stand out much. Would be open to any sponge type material or similar foam.

No problem, Gabe. :)

195F is fine. The fan kicks in at 206F IIRC.

I still recommend the materials I use. A lawn and leaf bag for the lower grill — the width is perfect and you can fold to match the height. I pulled the bag through the edges of the grill from the back, folded around the edges of the bumper to seal off any air gaps with an overlap of about 1", then taped with ordinary packing tape at regular intervals.

The top grill is just one 5' length of pipe insulation cut into sections to fit. One is the length of the lower grill opening and I've slipped the edge of the bumper into the insulation slit. Another just fits along the top of the radiator up to the black, stepped cover on the passenger side. Another fits the gap between the piece on the bottom of the grill opening and the radiator. The last section fits on top of the stepped, black plastic section on the passenger side. With all in place all airflow is blocked. You can remove sections for directed airflow. None of it needs to be attached in any manner as the hood keeps it all in place.

Cheap but effective. ;)

Here is Chuck's version:

Calpod for Dummies. (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15708)

Ended up picking up the foam mat on the way home. it worked out ok, but wasted one full mat to get it perfect. This will work out well as i should be able to do my wife's car with the same material. Someone egged my car two nights ago so made a quick trip to get it cleaned and it will be sleeping inside from now on. The smart does not take up much space and does not mind sharing. Wife is not happy, but we can deal with it until we sell the smart. Thanks for all the suggestions. Still have not made it to radio shack, but that will probably be my project for two weeks from now when my wife has something planned with the kids.

Here is Chuck's version:

Calpod for Dummies. (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15708)

For the Calpod is it just a matter of sticking the two wire into the yellow plug (right above clutch) and sodder to toggle switch. Does it matter which side goes to which side? or does that only change toggle on off position? Looks like an easy install. Like the look of install as well, although I may be nicer to have it by the right hand as I prefer to always have left hand on the wheel and right hand can go back anf forth between stick and switch. Will have to see if I can find a spot that works on that side.

Also while looking around, turned the car on and noticed that the engine was vibrating quite a bit. Have others had to change engine mounts? Nothing that is noticable inside the car so not sure if it is just me looking for something - still waiting for the other shoe to fall after I think I have made a good deal.

Gabe, you are correct about the simplicity of the switch. It does not matter which wire goes where — you are just bypassing the switch on the clutch pedal manually. One side goes to the ECU and the other goes to ground. When I put in my new switch I just tied the FAS button and the clutch mod grounds together.

I've read of others replacing the firewall side engine mount but usually they notice a squeaking noise when going over bumps and that triggers an investigation. Does yours make a noise?

It is doubtful that the motor mount is bad. Open the hood and have someone watch the motor. Put it in 1st gear. With your foot on the brake, slowly ease up on the clutch pedal. As the clutch starts to engage, the motor will rise quite a bit if the mount is bad.

Thanks. Will take a look tomorrow. It does make noise, but it seems more like the cars interior rattling when I go over bumps.

It is doubtful that the motor mount is bad. Open the hood and have someone watch the motor. Put it in 1st gear. With your foot on the brake, slowly ease up on the clutch pedal. As the clutch starts to engage, the motor will rise quite a bit if the mount is bad.

Well just checked and the front side of the motor does rise, although not sure what quite a bit would be or should you see no movement at all when this is tested? I went back to get a quick measurment - and it looks like the engine is moving about a 1/4 to 1/2 and inch. My wife's car also moves although I did not measure that. Either way I would think not something that I need to worry about for now.

When I took my Insight into Honda the month before the 7 year extended warrenty ran out, they checked everything. Engine mounts were the main thing they replaced. I didn't know they were bad, but took the under warrenty replacement They also heard a rattle that I still don't know what it was. They ended up calling it a loose weld somewhere that they could not fix. Since I could not hear the rattle I said OK.

The Insight has a lot of road noise. The lightweight constructrion and (for us) high tire pressure make it pretty loud inside. At stops it is quiet, Love that!

Should the entire bottom of the car have aero panels? I was driving home last night and there appears a huge rock right in the middle of the road with cars all around I had no choice but to go over it. Heard a little bump and could see a scrape on the plastic panel at the front, but noticed no pannels over the muffler/cat - should there be pannels there? Hope no other damage than scrapes on the pannels, but will have to check this weekend. I did notice that one pannel on the passenger side seemed to lower on the front side (not sure if it was hanging or maybe made that way for air intake?

I was really p/o last night. All along I saw "caution sweepers ahead" on the freeway signs - looks like you missed a spot!

Got a chance to look under the car and nothing major I can see. I should have taken some picks, but forgot. Next time when I do an oil change I guess.

Installed Calpod switch. About an hour with sodering, looking for wires and actually getting the switch in. Had a little problem and broke one of the plastic pieced as my wife was trying to get me to hurry. Fixed with the same foam I used for my grill block - good color match too. Went on a trip with the wife and got 86MPG on the way there and 94MPG on the way back - may have been the higher temps durring the day just the switch, but certainly an improvement. Also permanently mounted the scangauge. Here are some pics - thinking about drilling a hole for the scangauge
wire where no one could see, but not sure if I want to do that yet. I mus be doing something wrong still, posted the pics to modifications gallery on cleanmpg.com.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/522/medium/P1020553.JPG

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/522/medium/P1020551.JPG

86mpg and 94mpg? That's more like it!! :D:thumbs_up:

No traffic and a warm start on the trip home - 2 hour break. Will see if there is an improvement durring my commute. Temps really fell durring this past week and had heavy head wind several days. On day I actually stayed at a hotel near work. The 1.3 mile trip to and from work shaved a full 1.5mpg off my tank. Today helped, but the tank sits at just over 75mpg. Don't think I will get to 80 on this one.