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I am seriously beginning to believe that all the latest software update does is prevent the IMA warning light from coming on when it should, and prevent the SoC read out from saying zero bars of charge when it's dead.

I've clearly got a battery issue, but I never get any warning lights. Since it's gotten colder I get a recal pretty much every time I start the car. On the way to work one day last week, I had 5 bars when I started it in the morning.. it dropped to 2 on the way down my street. I got it charged to 8 bars in less than 2 miles (watching it jump from 4 to 8 when it used to make it to 5 and then jump), then it dropped back down again after another few miles of barely any traffic town driving and coasting as much as possible. Two recals on the way to work, one on my lunch break (to a restaurant 1/2 mile away), and two more on the way home. Ridiculous.

I've taken to driving in S most of the time because it keeps me from recalibrating so often. My fuel economy on this tank has been about 28mpg.

I drove it to work today, then had to take it a few blocks away for an errand, and when I got back in to start it.. I turned the key and it didn't start. I turned again and I heard a normal starter motor cranking it over. Meanwhile, the readout still says 2 bars.

I'm so disappointed with this car. It was my dream car.. but now it's a nightmare that I'm stuck with for 45 more months of payments. Perhaps Honda will let me trade it in, since they will no doubt tell me there is nothing wrong with it and it's acting as it should. :(

Did you buy it from a dealer?

Read: 31mpg HCHII going in for work...fingers crossed (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34588)


and: HCH-II Recalibrations (Recal). What are they ? (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24097)

Did you buy it from a dealer?

Read: 31mpg HCHII going in for work...fingers crossed (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34588)


and: HCH-II Recalibrations (Recal). What are they ? (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24097)

Did you buy it from a dealer?

Read: 31mpg HCHII going in for work...fingers crossed (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34588)


and: HCH-II Recalibrations (Recal). What are they ? (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24097)

I did buy it from a dealer, but it wasn't a Honda dealer.. it was one of those small dealerships where they cram 50 cars onto a lot that would comfortably hold 20. The car is also over the mileage that the dealer would cover the cost of a replacement battery.

I shouldn't have bought a car that had 96k miles on it, but I knew I wasn't going to be putting a ton of miles on it, and I figured the battery would make it to 150k at least.

The frequency of recals going up in the winter is to be expected (as the 2nd article you linked mentions) but I feel like what I'm experiencing is excessive and more than would be considered normal operation. Also the fact that the car had to use the starter motor because the battery was too drained to start it while it was showing 2 bars of charge makes me not trust the battery indicator.

Perhaps I will change my tune in the spring time, and again sing the praises of my awesome car.. I certainly hope so.

A Honda hybrid that is babied (nothing but gentle regen and assist) can limp along on a weak IMA battery for a long time. Perhaps autocrossing the car would convince the ECU that it's time for a new IMA battery. Or you could fix the IMA battery yourself, or buy a refurb.

Hi dlister70;

I've had the opportunity to drive around in a few HCH-II's that behaved pretty much the same way. The owners shared your feelings and were also very disappointed with the car. They often contacted the dealer a couple of times and on the second time we would get an earful from the owner.
Obviously, things have changed a bit since then and the cars are actually doing a bit better.

As usual, this is what we suggest:
- Perform a power reset. This helps reset the adaptive leaning and it is a good thing to do now and then.
- Drive gently and avoid driving in S all the time. If you drive in S at speeds above 25 MPH the assist affinity will exceed what you would get if the car was to be driven in D. It is VERY important that people understand the purpose of placing it in S when driven for higher FE.
- When the engine is cold and the autostop is not active, switch the transmission to L and keep it there until you begin moving again. Switch to D when accelerating above 7 MPH.

If you keep doing the above, your mileage will not only improve well above the number you quoted and you'll also be giving the software update the help it needs.

Give it a try and remember that the biggest enemy of a battery pack remains excessive assist patterns and not enough regeneration.


Cheers;


MSantos

I did a power reset yesterday. My positive terminal had a ton of corrosion on it, so I got that cleaned off and kept the battery unhooked for about a half hour. I took it for a drive, and it went from zero to 8 bars in less than a quarter mile. I turned around and went back and it went down to 7 bars. I kept it in L until I got it back up to 8 bars and shut it down for the night.

This morning on the way to work it went from 8 bars down to 2 and started it's recalibration of the morning as per usual.. ironically about the same spot that it had gone up to 8 the night before. It charged up to 8 bars in less than a mile and I got all the way to work (roughly 10 miles) without another recal. It was actually at 7 bars when I parked it at 7am.

I went to lunch at 12:30 to a place about 3-4 blocks away. On the way back to work it went into another recalibration. I parked it with 3 bars. I got off work at 6:30 and started driving home. It was fully charged to 8 bars in under a mile..

I'm driving it as gently as possible.. trying not to use the battery at all. I started downshifting to L at stop lights when auto-stop isn't working as suggested by msantos to help keep it charged up.. and it does make for a surprisingly easy 4 bar charge without revving the engine up.

I made it from 28mpg to 32mpg.. I'm not sure if that's from the power reset, or from me being extra careful..

My take, not sure if it's right, but it seems a case of "if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck":

Each recalibration re-determines just what constitutes a "fully charged" IMA battery. And with a deteriorating battery that status is repeatedly being lowered. This would explain the sudden jumps from 4~5 bars to 8 bars. And why a "fully charged" battery can drop down so quickly.

We've sold our 06 HCHII, but it's still in the family, so I'm still personally interested in the ongoing saga ;)

I had The same exact problem as you. Took a lot of convincing, but I was able to get my local dealer to replace the battery. Solved the problem. MPG still isn't great, averaging around 37 with highway driving, but better than it was.

Good luck.

Today's drive: One recal on the way to work, one on lunch, three on the way home (slow driving due to snow fall). All town driving..

I wish there was a toggle switch that you could press to turn off the assist. I just want to use the battery for auto-stop, I don't need to be assisted to 35 mph.

If it is a bad battery pack, I certainly don't have the money to replace it. I guess I'll just be driving a 93 horsepower civic if it gives out completely.

I have the same problems as you, 2006 HCH with 60Kmi in Los Angeles, California. I also have Honda (does-not) Care on the car... plus the extended warranty in California for the hybrid components... useless.

Continuing with my tests, I left the car parked last week for 5 days, after parking with a "full" battery. Once I got to drive it again, the battery was still showing the full charge but then dropped to 2 bars and used the starter motor to turn the engine on.

Drove the car to work (22mi of freeway) and back (another 22 miles again) and parked the car again for 4 days more, until this morning.

This morning, the car used the starter motor to turn the engine on again. It did do good mileage to work, gotta say that, but traffic was very light (did almost 50MPG, usually under 40)

THis is not going away. The new update was applied more than a month ago.

And MSantos, why would anyone having a car covered under "warranties" have to "baby" a car so that the battery finally fails once the warranty is over?? We ALL paid money to Honda for the cars and for the warranties.

Buying a used HCH after reading the forums with all the battery issues going on is just plain ...

I hope the ongoing investigations finally find the real issue, badly designed battery control modules, bad engineering... and FINE Honda. With the California extended warranty + the Honda Care, eventualy my car will be fixed (may be not by me, as I will dump it as soon as I can) but there are many owners on states with less warranties than California that will be on their own.

My 2006 FEH was bought shortly after the Honda, is driven on the same conditions and has been parked the same time as the Honda and has no issues (cross my fingers) Ok, so the Ford has a dedicated AC circuit for the battery, the Honda does not, but the Ford battery is still OK and you dont read about any battery issues on the FEH forums.

Bad, bad engineering. Then deny the problem and tell the customers to Baby their cars... the dumb service advisor that has never driven one tells the owner that has been driven his car for years that the car is doing what is suposed to do... It's the ALTERNATOR charging the battery! then the CS rep of Honda of America tells me too that since my car has a 12v battery, it must have an alternator too... dummy talk.

WTF.

Please record your complain with the NH:

http://www.safercar.gov/Vehicle+Owners

The more complaints present, the more probable a recall may be made that could include those people out of warranties (within reason)

Juan S Fernandez
2006 HCH
2006 FEH

Count me in on the conventional starter!

I heard my 12v starter this morning for the the first time ever in my 2006.

The car was parked (in a warm garage) for 4 days, but I've done this many times in the past for holidays.

I was holding out on replacing the IMA battery, but I may do it very soon now

Update: I wonder if Honda changed the battery level setpoint for where the conventional starter kicks in? After mine started, it showed 2 bars. It may be part of their plan to protect the IMA battery. Many of us had the free software update, and this is the first winter since, and many of us are experiencing it.

...

Update: I wonder if Honda changed the battery level setpoint for where the conventional starter kicks in? After mine started, it showed 2 bars. It may be part of their plan to protect the IMA battery. Many of us had the free software update, and this is the first winter since, and many of us are experiencing it.

Hi Hunter44102

Indeed they have. There has been a significant shuffle of thresholds and as far as most folks should be concerned at this time of the year, that along with the Auto-Stop mapping and regen/assist profiles are the most glaring.

The IMA stator start is directly affected by an IMA operational state that we often have referred to as "managed mode". In all fairness, managed mode has always been there from day one but the latest updates have made it way more visible and pronounced than ever before.


...

And MSantos, why would anyone having a car covered under "warranties" have to "baby" a car so that the battery finally fails once the warranty is over?? We ALL paid money to Honda for the cars and for the warranties.



Hi Juan;

The advice that we often give... and what you refer to as "baby a car" is exactly the advice we offer to anyone who knows what CleanMPG is all about. In fact, this is the very same advice we've always offered on the HCH-II shortly after it was introduced into the market.

Does it work? If my experience and that of other HCH-II owners like myself is any indicator, then it works extremely well and in the end it is the difference between relative happiness and mind-numbing frustration.

Still, while it is unfortunate that a number of good folks are observing issues with their cars I am also confident that many will have their issues resolved in due time according to a process and schedule that is only Honda's to manage. The only thing we suggest is that owners first give the regular advice we offer a try, and only resort to legal means when all else fails. In other words:

1- Be cordial and respectful and yet firm with your dealer. We should try not to mess up on this one as the absence of "good will" can only hurt our bottom line right from the start.
2- Keep accurate records of all your interactions with the dealer personnel. The more specific we can be, the better our negotiating odds are.
3- If possible, contact a second dealer- at least to see what you may be missing as some dealers are VERY lacking in technical competencies and/or customer service.
4- Contact Honda Corporate in writing and CC the correspondence to the General and Service manager at your dealership.

More often than not, the above can work quite well but when and exactly all of the above fails, I am hopeful that by placing some form of legal pressure on the company that things will get better at some point at least for those who cannot make it happen any other way.


Good luck;


MSantos

I'd speculate 2 bars is simply the new zero bars.