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Okay. Here's my story. I'm a major gadget and car nut and have been intrigued by the GS 450h for some time. After months of seeing the redesigned GS's on the road and liking what I saw, I finally decided to go for a test drive.

I drove both a 350awd and a 450h. Loved them both. In my very short drive, which was hampered by too much Chicago traffic, I didn't notice a huge difference between them (admittedly I didn't have the opportunity to max out the acceleration).

The hybrid version appeals to me for these reasons:
[1] Touchy feely, it's better for the environment
[2] I just happen to like the idea of driving reasonably fast, coasting to stoplights, and watching the hand-off between electric motors and the engine.
[3] Reliably getting more than 20 mpg just appeals to me (but I know full-well this car is no Prius)

My concerns at this point:
[1] Rear-wheel drive in Chicago. Have gotten used to having AWD and not having to worry about snow tires. (Obviously, this doesn't have anything to do with the hybrid, per se)
[2] Residual value (whether I lease or buy) -- this hybrid performance car seems like such a boutique idea, just wondering if anyone would really want a used one.
[3] Hardly any trunk. (Ultimately, not a big deal for me, but it is awfully small).


Putting aside $$ issues, I'm just wondering if the pluses will outweigh the minuses. Obviously, all of this is totally subjective, but I'd love to hear from current owners about how they feel about their GS hybrid. It's cool to be able to go from 0-60 in 5.2 seconds, but in real life, how often do you actually get to do that...

Thanks. Hope someone is listening! :rolleyes:

My concerns at this point:
[1] Rear-wheel drive in Chicago. Have gotten used to having AWD and not having to worry about snow tires. (Obviously, this doesn't have anything to do with the hybrid, per se)
[2] Residual value (whether I lease or buy) -- this hybrid performance car seems like such a boutique idea, just wondering if anyone would really want a used one.
[3] Hardly any trunk. (Ultimately, not a big deal for me, but it is awfully small).


Putting aside $$ issues, I'm just wondering if the pluses will outweigh the minuses. Obviously, all of this is totally subjective, but I'd love to hear from current owners about how they feel about their GS hybrid. It's cool to be able to go from 0-60 in 5.2 seconds, but in real life, how often do you actually get to do that...

Thanks. Hope someone is listening! :rolleyes:
Although I do not own one I have driven one for extended test drives.

[1] The 450h has Vehicle Stability Control (VSC). I can tell you that this makes it so that you can drive this thing well beyond the normal capabilities of any non-equipped rear wheel drive car. I didn't get a chance to drive it on snow/ice but knowing how well it did on dry pavement, I'm certain stability on snow/ice would be more than adequate. You really should go out and test drive one in the kind of environment you will be driving in.

[2] Given the durability I have seen in the Hybrid Synergy Drive system, there isn't a logical reason for people to be worried about buying a used one. That said, we know that consumers aren’t always logical. If you are leasing there shouldn't be any issue. I’m not sure how this would play out for purchasing. But really, I can't imagine why you'd want to give this car up any time soon.

[3] Hardly any trunk. As always, this is a relative thing. You are correct that the trunk is reduced in the Lexus hybrid compared to the non-hybrid. (It's the same thing for the hybrid Camry compared to the non-hybrid Camry.) It goes back to the primary motivator for people to buy this vehicle, though. How high up on the list is trunk space? I'm not sure.

No matter what you choose in the end, the 450h is a beautiful vehicle. It looks great, is super quiet, and super smooth. Emissions-wise, it is cleaner than most vehicles on the road today and it is faster than most vehicles on the road today. It can stop on a dime and with the VSC you can push it hard into any corner and it comes out screaming on the other side. All this, and you can still drive reasonably while taking a family of five on a day trip in the summer with the A/C on, and still get 32 mpg. (I did.)

I could go on and on about the 450h, but for now I’ll stop here.

Putting $$ aside, given everything else the 450h has to offer, I can’t imagine how you would be disappointed.

... All this, and you can still drive reasonably while taking a family of five on a day trip in the summer with the A/C on, and still get 32 mpg. (I did.)


You got 32 mpg with the GS450h, for real?! That's extraordinary.

In any event, I totally appreciate your thoughts and comments. I'm going to go drive one again, hopefully today...

The hardest part for me was deciding how to drive this car.
You can “just drive it” and get gas mileage as good as a mid sized sedan.
You can drive conservatively and surpass the EPA.
Or you can drive it like you stole it and blow most anyone out of the water any time you want.
Since that third style has such a detrimental effect on gas mileage, it is sometimes hard to get through a full tank of gas and meet the EPA estimates. I mean come on… when that driver in his tricked out Honda Civic with the big wing on it comes flying up behind you and flashes his lights indicating you are going too slow (while you are driving the speed limit at 55) it is sooooo easy to hit the pedal and let the 450h run like the wind, leaving the rice-burner in the dust. Of course that kind of display kills the 30 mpg segment you were working on and now you are down to 20 mpg or less. Dang!

Since this is a luxury car, one “problem” I had was trying to judge speed simply by feel. Why? Because certain audio and “seat of the pants” cues are missing.
The CVT transmission has no shift points, so it makes smooth and fast acceleration with ease. There aren’t any hard, lurching transmission shifts to tell you what “gear” you are in.
The interior is blissfully quiet. Without the road noise or air whistling in from gaps in the body moldings it is hard to judge speed. Step into my Insight some time. The noise and wind will tell you when you are at 55.
The suspension makes a smooth ride. Because you aren’t being jarred around it makes it easy to miss how fast you are really going.

Combine all three of these traits and you can push past the speed limit without out realizing it. Especially if you are on the road alone and there aren’t other visual cues.

I’m certain I could get past these “problems” once I really got to know the car.

I can't speak to the 450h in particular, but I did drive a RWD vehicle through many New England winters. Snow tired would be a must, though I think that they should be put on any vehicle in winter for the sake of braking and handling. But I honestly prefer the winter handling characteristics of a RWD car on the basis of predictability. It gives you a degree of control over both ends of the car, and steering corrections (if necessary) are a bit more logical to me than with FWD. (The rear end slides out, let off and let it fall back in line while countersteering, whereas if you do the same thing on a FWD car the rear end may well just keep on coming around). The only thing that held my old car back was an open diff and no traction control, which meant that if one wheels started spinning it just kept on going. I doubt you would have a problem like that in the Lexus, and stability control ought to take pretty good care of you if things get a little wild.

If cash were no object I would go for the hybrid variant, and I would get winter tires regardless of the drivetrain. Those big wide sport tires won't do you any favors in the frozen stuff.

Have you driven the Camry Hybrid? That would be another good option for less money if you aren't bent on getting a luxury car.

Hi Argelius:

___My only caveat came from a story I posted a few months ago about the GS450h being auctioned off for a charity event. The results were not very pretty …

On the Block: A Hot Hybrid Goes Cheap in Hollywood? (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/in-the-news/t-on-the-block-a-hot-hybrid-goes-cheap-in-hollywood-2825.html)

___I would like to get my hands on one for a week to see what they are worth but that will have to wait until it gets a bit warmer.

___WRT rear wheel drive, see all those 2WD P/U’s out on I-55/90/290/94/294? I think you get the picture ;)

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Thanks, all.
I'm going to go do another test drive and look at things again.
I'm so bad with delayed gratification...

Alas, these are high-class problems -- debating whether or not to get a Lexus Hybrid!

:Banane06: