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Hi all, im new. Ive been an avid mercedes/vw diesel fan for a while now, but due to expensive repairs all of the time im considering other options. In my search for a tahoe, some how a 2003 honda civic hybrid popped up on craigslist. It sparked my interest, so I began looking. But now I have some questions to determine if it is right for me...

-I do all of my own repairs, and am looking for something I can still work on, is this still possible?

-How high is high miles?

-I really dont want to have to replace batteries for a while, so what mileage range should I be looking in?

-5speed or automatic??? ive read the automatics were bad?

-Is there an 8 year warranty on the hybrid equipment in ohio?

So the car im looking at is this: http://columbus.craigslist.org/cto/1998426765.html
The low miles concerns me about needing a battery replacement soon?
I am also looking at a few for the same price with around 150,xxxmiles what should I be worried about?
thanks,
zach

Welcome to the club. We have many members who own civic hybrids so I'm sure you will have your questions answered here. I owned a 99 2000 Honda Insight and have owned several Honda non-hybrids over theyears - Accord, Civic, CR-V. I have found Hondas to be extremely reliable. I do my own routine maintenance such as tune-ups, brakes, etc. . . and rarely see the dealer.

weve owned two accords and I know non-hybrid hondas are very reliable, but I just dont know enough about the hybrid. And I LOVE the insight but a two seater isnt practical for me...

-I do all of my own repairs, and am looking for something I can still work on, is this still possible?

-5speed or automatic??? ive read the automatics were bad?


Avoid the 2003 CVT (continuously vexatious transmission). They are very trouble prone and expensive to fix. When I was shopping a year ago my impression was that "a lot of them go bad". So I bought a 2003 that had been carefully maintained (it had full service records, never missed an oil change or other scheduled work.) The CVT started acting up anyway. For your future sanity and the health of your wallet you would do well to assume that any CVT you buy will fail. The flip side is that it is possible to drive the manual in such a way that it is bad for the battery, but that transmission will probably not break. If it does any competent transmission shop can fix it.

Other than the bad CVT transmission the cars are reliable. and you should be able to do suspension, brakes, plugs, and the like yourself. Don't expect to do anything useful with the big battery though, it needs special tools for diagnosis.

so would you go with the 9o,xxx mile car or other in the 130-160,xxx mile range.

Hi 77busman, I really like my 03 civic hybrid (the only car I'd rather be driving than this one would be an original Honda Insight with a manual transmission). I bought it used a little over a year ago. To answer what questions I can:
Working on a civic hybrid is the same as working on a non-hybrid civic (with the exception of the hybrid battery and motor).
Not sure about mileage, mine has a lot. It would be preferable to find one still under warranty.
I'd go for the manual transmission, the cvt's (automatics) have had their problems.
There are two routes you could go down with this car: 1. still under warranty, lots of service records so you know what's been replaced. Or 2. Find one in good shape and for a cheap enough price that if you had to replace something expensive it would still be a good deal (this was the option I went for).
All that being said I would say the car you linked has been sitting for a while and/or has a bad hybrid battery because the gauge is showing no battery charge and the car is sendig charge to the battery while it is idling.
Here's what to look out for with these cars: bad hybrid battery (there's a company that refurbishes them for $1500 or Honda will sell you one for around $2500 I believe) and the nox catalytic converter can go bad, especially if the owner didn't get the updates to the car's computer ($650-$950 plus labor if someone replaces it). Most of the other components are normally priced Honda parts and generally available as aftermarket parts as well.

so would you go with the 9o,xxx mile car or other in the 130-160,xxx mile range.

Depends if the battery was replaced or not. It also helps if you've been in one that functions properly so that when you test drive one you know how it should behave. That is the only reason I bought mine, my father-in-law bought an 03 new and I had quite a bit of experience driving it.

so what are some signs that the pack is going bad?

Keep in mind that the battery gauge will show that behavior if the 12V has been disconnected for even a short while. The battery in that case may not actually be empty -- the car could just be going through a recalibration exercise.

A poorly functioning pack would show low capacity -- you might only get a few bars of the 20 to discharge normally, then the state of charge the meter could zoom to the bottom very quickly and start force charging back up to the top. A healthy pack will not have any quick jumps in status like that -- it will give roughly the same discharge rate for each bar of on the gauge. If the car shows this behavior regularly it could be a sign that the cells inside the pack are not balanced and/or one or more may be bad (with severely limited capacity).

I should also mention that the programming in the second generation Civic Hybrid is much more complex and the above described behavior is not nearly as certain to indicate a deteriorating battery in one of those vehicles.

I think there is an 8 year warranty on the hybrid equipment in Ohio, but the ad says it's a salvage title, so I'm guessing that would probably nullify the warranty.

For some reason I can't view most of the pictures with my PC, but I did notice that the wheels are not original Civic hybrid wheels; compare them to the pic in the link they provided regarding the 2003 Civic hybrid.

I did notice that the wheels are not original Civic hybrid wheels; compare them to the pic in the link they provided regarding the 2003 Civic hybrid.

The stock wheels are expensive. Consequently they may have been stolen and replaced with less expensive wheels (they were on my car when it was owned by the prior owner - they found it up on blocks one morning). Or whoever is selling it may have added up the numbers and figured they would do better selling the wheels separately from the car. Worst case scenario, and the least likely, is that a prior owner destroyed one or more of them by hitting a pot hole or other road hazard.

Expensive wheels really should have serial numbers on them, but these don't.

Ok a few more questions/opinions needed.
First are the automatics from the 2005's bad? I know that the CVT in the 2003 was bad, but i didnt know if they made any adjustments to them. I prefer a 5speed but ive seen alot of 2005 automatics popping up in my searches.
Also what do you think about these?:

I think this is def. a scam but oh well:
http://wv.craigslist.org/cto/1946372768.html

The one that might have a bad battery pack:
http://columbus.craigslist.org/cto/2003705802.html

Iffy on the auto in the 2005, and leery of 200,xxx miles:
http://detroit.craigslist.org/mcb/ctd/1953055284.html

I really like this one, and the car fax says battery replaced in 2005 but doesnt say which battery??
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=u&car_id=287142366&dealer_id=58233701&car_year=2003&rdm=1287001335126&lastStartYear=1981&model=&num_records=25&systime=&make2=&highlightFirstMakeModel=&start_year=1981&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=&engine=Hybrid&certified=&body_code=0&fuel=&awsp=false&search_type=both&distance=200&marketZipError=false&search_lang=en&sownerid=55782018&showZipError=n&make=HONDA&keywords_display=&color=&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=&drive=&default_sort=newsortbyprice_ASC&seller_type=b&max_mileage=&style_flag=1&sort_type=priceASC&address=43113&advanced=y&end_year=2011&doors=&transmission=&max_price=6000&cardist=170&standard=false


Then I can dream about how much I love the insight, but know the two seater is not practical...

http://louisville.craigslist.org/cto/1960420813.html
http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/ctd/1989819011.html

I don't know if it's true, or why it might be, but I remember reading in a Consumer Reports magazine (I think. It was a while ago) that the 2003 CVT had the most problems, the '04 was supposed to be a bit better (don't count on it...), and the 2005 better than the '04.
I tried asking at my service department why that would be. Did they make some mechanical change, or was it just the age of the cars, or what (different CVT fluid?). I didn't really get much of an answer; I don't think they have a clue about their hybrids sometimes. I suppose a 5-speed would eliminate that problem.

The one you like, the white one, also seems to have a really low IMA battery reading on the gauge. Maybe that car has just been sitting undriven, but I've never seem my IMA gauge go that low; about 1/3 down and it charges back up.

Does anyone know what differences there were between the '04 and the '05 model? The one in the link here has leather seats; I'm guessing it was reupholstered.

thanks for all the info, im gonna try and keep my sights set on the 5speed. Im in no financial situation to be fixing automatic transmissions. Im being nagged by friends and family about getting a "normal car" that is easy to work on/ reliable. (My current diesel mercedes is neither of these) So my question is if the battery does die or something goes wrong with the IMA system, can I still just drive it with just the gasoline engine? And if so what kind of fuel economy would it yield without electric assist. Im trying to win the debate here about these being reliable cars, and better yet do you think this is right for me. my current car is hard to work on, parts are scarce and expensive. Im trying to achieve higher fuel economy but for the large amount of in town driving I do, I dont want a sluggish tdi... But I also want something that im going to have to invest alot of money into after the initial purchase.

The first gen HCH can indeed drive around with a dead battery. I think if it is removed you may have to do a little fiddling to get the DC-DC converter to work (the car has no alternator) -- this is true of the first gen Insight as well.

If you get an '03 or '04 HCH 5spd you can install a switch in parallel with the clutch switch (found at the top of the clutch pedal shaft and pressed when the clutch is pushed in) which will disallow assist and regen functionality while it is enabled. I use this modification in my Insight to avoid using assist at low speeds/RPM and while climbing hills to preserve state of charge.

In these cars (as with all but plug-in hybrids) you will achieve your best mileage by avoiding assist. The conversion losses incurred by charging the battery back up with regenerative braking outweigh the benefits of using assist -- only use it if you must (such as emergency maneuvers). With pressed up tires and a light foot the HCH 5spd is good for close to 80mpg on the highway in mid 40F weather at 48mph. Around town I've seen the gauge maxed out at 120mpg for long stretches in 5th gear at 35mph. The power to weight ratio in these cars isn't great so it is a bit sluggish off the line with no assist, but not bad enough a little planning can't help you out. I strongly recommend getting one you can use the clutch mod on -- then you can easily keep the state of charge high and if you need extra torque in an emergency, just flip the switch to get assist.

Good luck with your search!

went and test drove the one that might have had a bad battery,and it managed to hit half charge after I drove it for a little bit at 55. Seemed to run and drive very nicely, his guage for mpg was reading 53.3mpg. He was a bit to high for the body damage and salvage title but I do know now that this car is what I am looking for.