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that we wont be getting (http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2010/09/holden-hsv-considering-286-hp-twin.html)

:eyebrow: I could do without the 268 hp part, but the hatch? Come on!

In America, hatchbacks are seen as bargain basement cars. The only exception seems to be the Prius.

Look at the Cruze's interior. It's pretty obvious they're doing everything they can to get the notion of bargain basement out of their showrooms.

I like it! I agree though, Americans just don't really do hatchbacks. The VW Beetle and Golf, as well as the Mazda 3 have done a little to bring back the hatchback's appeal, but apparently not enough for it to be viewed as profitable.

Hi All:

While in LA this past week, Chris and I found a very interesting Achilles heel regarding the Cruze that nobody has apparently taken into account. I will post some pics in a month or two that show the "problem" up close and very personal.

Right now, the Cruze is the best C-Segment car on American roads but not with regards to what was discovered unfortunately.

Good Luck

Wayne

Americans just don't really do hatchbacks. T

Wrong. They just have liked them big, with 4WD, V-8 engines, 7 passenger seating, and called them SUVs.

Wrong. They just have liked them big, with 4WD, V-8 engines, 7 passenger seating, and called them SUVs.

I don't disagree, but it seems to me the SUV craze grew out of the old 70s body on frame full size wagons. I sometimes wonder if fuel economy regs hadn't downsized those cars out of existence if we wouldn't have more body on frame cars which could tow and we would therefore have negated the SUV thing altogether...

I don't disagree, but it seems to me the SUV craze grew out of the old 70s body on frame full size wagons. I sometimes wonder if fuel economy regs hadn't downsized those cars out of existence if we wouldn't have more body on frame cars which could tow and we would therefore have negated the SUV thing altogether...

I think the model name Suburban is enough of a clue that the only thing that would have stopped the SUV craze would have been gas prices high enough to make them cost too much for people who had to care about gas prices.

Most people used to inhale toxic smoke for fun and for most of them it was only the cost that stopped them.

In America, hatchbacks are seen as bargain basement cars. The only exception seems to be the Prius.

- snip -

Toyota refers to their hatchbacks as Liftbacks to avoid the stigma of hatchs ?

I think the model name Suburban is enough of a clue that the only thing that would have stopped the SUV craze would have been gas prices high enough to make them cost too much for people who had to care about gas prices.

Most people used to inhale toxic smoke for fun and for most of them it was only the cost that stopped them.

Maybe. But people buy SUV's for the same qualities the old woodgrain wagons of yesteryear had (lots of seating, ample cargo room/capacity, ability to tow), which makes me wonder if there's a connection. I think the law of unintended consequences has struck. We'd be a lot better off with a bunch of (modern, aerodynamic, fuel-injected, overdrive-equipped) full-size wagons that probably wouldn't meet CAFE standards on the road than SUV's.

My recollection was that the SUV craze grew as a reaction to minivans.

We got minivans in the 80s, starting with the Chrysler models, and they were superior in every way to the full-size wagons of the 70s: comparable or greater passenger and cargo space, with much better fuel economy. SUVs existed (full-sized Bronco and Blazer, S-10 Blazer, Jeep Cherokee) but they were mostly bought by folks who actually needed 4WD. Which, even in Minnesota where I grew up in the 70s and 80s, was relatively FEW people - mostly those with boat trailers, remote cabins or long unplowed driveways.

Like the full-size wagons that preceded them, minivans acquired the stigma of boring family cars. In the 90s the automakers finally figured out that they could market big, thirsty klutzy SUVs as family cars -- but with a rugged outdoor image rather than the family-car stigma. And people were willing to pay a premium for this, lending higher profit margins to the SUV, so they kept rolling more and more of them out.

I think the only way in which this was a reaction to CAFE standards was that SUVs qualify as light trucks rather than passenger vehicles, subjecting them to a lower standard. This did give the automakers further incentive to promote SUVs rather than wagons.

Oh, I'm sure there's more to it than I put in the above post - I oversimplified to make my point. Still, it's hard to believe that it's pure coincidence that those old wagons had most of the features which people cite for buying SUV's.