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My efforts, results and actions have hit rock bottom. I mean celler dweller. If I'm not fighting wind. Its the cold and absurd traffic. ( for my area ) throw in the snow and ice and its awful.

I don't know if I will be able to hold on to expert. Not that its real important. BUT I worked hard for it. Real hard!

I can tell you the Civic isn't reacting well at all to the combo of wind and cold temps. I cant avoid a head wind to say my life. And if I get a tail wind its still like the car is base jumping and Ive just thrown a parachute out. FAS has become near useless as has most other tactics. Ive checked psi,,, jacked the car up and checked wheel rotation drag. Inspected it from front to rear. Im at a lose.

The last 3 weeks Ive went from shifting at redline, jamming traffic,,, basicly being a normal driver to throwing everything in the book at mpg hypermiling. No matter what the civic returns results that I cant change much or see a result of effort.

One thing Ive noticed this winter is the DBW throttle lag. Doesnt matter if your taching it or shifting at 1.5k rpms. Its there in spades. The rev hang is gone so the tach falls like a rock when shifting. Which is backwards of how it acts in warmer weather. There is a ECU flash and I can get while I'm still under warrenty. But theres not enough data posted to know if in the long run it will hurt mpg. I think its available for all the new civics from HCHII to Si.

Ive played with it with the WAI on and off. One would think sucking colder air it would at least jump up and run better on the HP curve. But it doesnt. It seems to run the same with or with out WAI.

I'm really wrestling with taking it in and getting the ECU flash done. Problem is its not reversible so Honda say. So if I don't like it I'm screwed. And for the life of me I don't understand why. Its nothing more than flashing the bios on a mother board, video card or nic. What are the tards thinking????

As my ECU is programed now and how it runs in warmer weather with the rev hang. Its one of the tricks I think Honda use's to help with not only mpg but emissions. Folks complain about the rev hang on shifts in the MT cars and the throttle lag in AT cars and certin lose of throttle control in the hybrids. I like the rev hang cause it helps with shifting no matter what style of driving you are doing. It helps with rev matching. be it at low rpms or gear jamming. But throw in a dead/ falling tach and then you see the throttle lag. and thats not good for hypermiling or gear jamming.

My question is... If i have it flashed. What will happen over all in my two major driving styles. Will the car act better in the winter months and turn into a turn into a slug come summer? Will throttle responce become better year round? will if sport a 50 cal. to blast traffic or will it just suck more gas and want a CAI? I cant get a idea of this from my dealer or Honda LTD. I call Honda and its like you can hear there eyes glaze over and start cracking with every breath.

I haven't posted in the daily grind much of late because Ive been so darn depressed over the change of events concerning the civic. Taking in to acct the weather and such. I'm quite honestly seeing stuff in the R-18 I don't like! Something just isn't right in there half arse atkins cycle voodoo magic. IMO

Something else that isn't right. Launching the car from a stop has become a chore. And its temp related. When cold,, you have to do a timed throttle blip and let the clutch out. If you do a slight throttle load and clutch load it will stall. Then of course. You have to crank the crap out of it to restart.... its like all of Hondas control systems lost there place. The crank time is worse than starting the Accord. And its one of the longest cranking cars Ive ever owned.

I wish there were more R-18 owners out there that were driving for FE. But it seems most are trying to make them run like a Si which makes the tard flag fly hi and you have to take there input with a grain of salt. And then the thought had hit me. Maybe Honda just screwed up the R-18 from the get go and buying and rehabing a Geo or VX is just flat out a smarter move. I have to keep reminding my self that the R-18 does better emission wise than any lean burn engine Honda has ever made. In the ICE only world. Lord help me... surely I'm not turning into a greenie weenie. May be there is a use when it comes to R-18 and Ruger 44 mag. And the only thing that has kept me from taking a .44 mag to the R-18 is the wonderful casting. The engine is a work of casting and machine tool art.

Fact is,,, I think its showing its true colors in winter,,, and Im not seeing 60 mpg tanks out of it this coming spring and summer either. My guts telling me its a failure.....

psy

Hi Psy:

___Just wait for warmer temps and calmer winds. The FE will be back, trust me. I had one or two commutes last week in the high 30’s while driving in below 0 temps w/ 15 - 25 mph side winds. I thought I was going to die! Your FE will come back and it will come back even harder then before because you know what to do. Just give it time. Do you know what a VX or an old Metro is doing in these kinds of temps? Getting murdered as well :( Besides the fact you would have to be driving a VX or a Metro. You will not like going back to either of those scantily equipped sub-compacts after sitting behind the windscreen of your Civic for as long as you have.

___As for the flash, there is always a lot of talk about losing this or that after a flash from the car junkies but in my experience, 3 ECU flashes in the Insight did not change a thing and I bet it won’t change a thing in the Civic (in terms of FE that is) either.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Wayne

I came in this morning with a head wind and 28f temps. For the life of me I couldnt get better than 36 mpg out of it, with or without the WAI. The throttle lag was awful. No rev hang between shifts.

I called my boss and took the car to a local Honda dealer. I got normal run around about cold and mpg untill I asked them to go look at my mpg log at cleanmpg.com :) at that point they then wanted to listen to my concerns of throttle lag and my rev hang going away on a none flashed R-18. They agree'ed it was acting backwards of how it should. MPG a side. The pluged it into the diag. center. All was normal. We refitted the WAI and they were very impressed with the diff. the WAI made to the intake air temp, of 28F verses 78F at that time.

They offered to flash the ECU. With a clear statement that its permanent. They said they would speak with Honda and see if they could address my questions concerning the flash such as timing, fuel, and such. Also share with them how my car is acting like a AT with throttle lag. But acting like a already flashed R-18 with the tach droping so fast. And how its doing it with diff. intake air temps.

They were very nice about everything and seemed intrested in what I was seeing. So I will see what happens.

psy

A reflash likely has at the very least the same effect as losing
12V keepalive power to the ECM -- fuel trim maps go poof, and the
car has to relearn a few things. This is probably the main
reason people who are paying attention to MPG notice a hit right
after a reflash, but then they never seem to get back on later
and post "well, everything's back to normal and fine" -- they
only complain.
.
But you're right, a reflash should be doable using *any* particular
version of the firmware. Honda probably just doesn't *have* a
load for the original version they can get to the dealers, just
the updated revs. So they're only half-lying. But really, once
you're in the upload mode you could stuff in a solid block of
zeros, in theory, not that the car would *run* anymore after
that but you get the point.
.
_H*

Hobbit

The relearn curve as I understand it if really pretty fast. Ive had cars cleared and reflashed before.

In the HCHII and AT R-18 they seem to have issue with throttle lag. You give them throttle and they lag. Even as a hypermiler,, this isn't good.

With the Si and R-18 MT the flash corrects rev hang between shifts. Why folks don't like this I don't know. I like it myself. It removes rev matching and other issues and I think it also helps with emission.

Now you have my car and it lags like a AT R-18 and no rev hang now between shifts. Let out of the throttle,, poke a gear and the tach falls like a ubber high compression engine. Then give it the gas and it lags off throttle input.

I went by the dealer today. Nothing new from them. Im a gambling man. Hell i bought a first year production car. But I want to know excatly what the flash changes and HOW!!! Even tho its not showing a problem at this moment. There is one and I dont want the flash masking a issue that needs to be fixed now.

The techs at the dealer have come to the thought that its not colder temps causing this. The WAI is doing its job. So the problem exist with or without the WAI.

Ive called the bone heads in Torrance several times. Ive been very nice. And I cant get a answer out of them or engineering to save my life. Not to mention the issue with the Navi still hasnt been taken care of, and the windshield cowling plastic has yet come loose again.

Im not blaming my dealer for the lack of info. Or the fix. Im about to blame Honda in spades with a lawyer. I want my Civic fixed or a Excet's head on a platter. And I darn well want it explained.