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I stumbled on the Wikipedia entry Ecodriving (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecodriving). It's what many Europeans call hypermiling. More at www.ecodrive.org (http://www.ecodrive.org).



Shift up as soon as possible
For petrol/LPG cars, shift up before 2500 RPM, for diesel cars before 2000 RPM.
Maintain a steady speed
Use the highest gear possible and drive with low engine RPM
Anticipate traffic flow
Look ahead as far as possible and anticipate to surrounding traffic
Decelerate Smoothly
When you have to slow down or to stop, decelerate smoothly by releasing the accelerator in time, leaving the car in gear
Check the tyre pressure frequently
25% too low tyre pressure increases rolling resistance by 10% and your fuel consumption by 2%.

It's a universal truth!

I stumbled on the Wikipedia entry Ecodriving (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecodriving).Cool, Wiki... I've added a "See Also" section with a link to Hypermiler... lets see how long it lasts.

Wikapedia has become stricter on posting. Also, some moderators view things differently. The dilimma last year was I could make a significant addition to the Hypermiling article, but adding CleanMPG to the extenal links had a moderator consider it "spam" :(. It did not matter that a couple of other sites were listed - i.e. some moderators would not have objected. Wikapedia moderators have the authority to degrade or eliminate your editing priviliges. I hope they have changed their suggeston to "Be Bold" - I got slapped last year for taking that advise.

If anyone here wishs to add content on hypermiling, I encourage them to add content, but be very careful about mentioning CleanMPG (i.e. ask us moderators or Wikapedia first) We don't want a careless edit to backfire.

This is a generic problem with wikis, and it's becoming apparent
to me that there are some people who spend all their time trying
desperately to keep bunches of wikipedia [and other] entries
vandalism-free. This makes about as much sense as getting upset
because the incoming tide is washing away your sandcastle. Until
wikis actually get a concept of SECURITY, i.e. being able to
lock down entries against change once there's consensus on the
content, it's going to continue being an unproductive zoo.
That model hasn't worked since the earliest days of the net when
there were a couple of hundred people total on it.
.
_H*

I think this is a great term to use around people who would be completely confused by “hypermiling.” Like I know it’s certain at work someone driving behind me is eventually going to ask why I drive so slow when going into or out of the lot.

If I say “oh, I was just eco-driving” even if they don’t know exactly what that means it sounds dreadfully chic, :cool: forward-thinking and downright patriotic :flag: all at the same time and I’ll get the “oh…I see” head nod and way-to-go.
Whereas if I say “oh, I was just hypermiling” that would raise questions, suggests a slightly oddball image, :Banane13: and I'm a candidate for Arlo’s Group W bench.

Kid, you're in good company on that bench.

There is a very funny editorial called "Confessions of an Eco-Snob" below, the Prius drivers should enjoy.
http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070206/NEWS/702060637/-1/Help0530

Looks like the "eco-" prefix has officially gone cliché’d. :Banane36:

There is a very funny editorial called "Confessions of an Eco-Snob" below, the Prius drivers should enjoy.
http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070206/NEWS/702060637/-1/Help0530

Looks like the "eco-" prefix has officially gone cliché’d. :Banane36:
This is more of a Dr. Phil issue, like a lot of driving issues.

Too many people have their vanity attached to their wheels.

There are bling-bling Escalades.

Some hybrid's are green bling-bling.

If you need a home or a nice vehicle for validation, it's a crutch and need mental thearpy to stop needing it. ;)

This morning, a guy on another forum was ranting about "smug hybrid drivers" bashing SUVs. Dr. Phil would probably say it differently, but the expression "guilty dogs bark" came to mind. An F250 towing a flatbed passed me this morning - he's putting it to work. I could cite many other people using their pickups, vans, etc., putting them to serious work. I also see a lot of single occupant vehicles - think it's about 60% of the drivers on the road. A typical family today has 3-4 vehicles, but only 1-2 in 1980 - and they were smaller. SUVs were maybe 1% of the vehicles back then. When I hear some SUV drivers say they need them and attack eco-minded people, their defensiveness makes me very suspicious.

I just received this old thread under my Google Alerts for Ecodriving. So here's my 2 cents.

EcoDriving and Hypermiling are two differant things, though similiar. The explanations in Wiki are correct. Ecodriving is the most basic form of FE driving while Hypermiling is the next step up on FE driving scale. A Hypermiler is a Ecodriver but an Ecodriver is not a Hypermiler.

Small but important distinction. Ecodriving is for the general public while Hypermiling is for those that choose to exceed the basic FE techniques to consistently achieve better than EPA numbers. With all the recent articles about Hypermiling, I think it's important that the media and the public do not get distracted by the more extreme techniques of Hypermiling at the expense on the more basic Ecodriving techniques.

I do not believe that Europeans equate Hypermiling and Ecodriving as being the same thing.

Bradlee

Eco driving does not imply beating the EPA. It is kind of the warm fuzzy thing you can do to feel less guilty.

I dissagree that hypermiling isn't for the general public. You can hypermile without doing ANY advanced techniques or bending the law.

The fact that some influential people still fell hypermiling is only for the extreem and feed the media misinformation about hypermiling is sadening. I hypermile, I stop for stop signs, I don't normaly FAS, I don't draft. Sure, I'm not getting blow out numbers, but I'm still hypermiling. Could I go extreem, yes. Is it nessasary to be a hypermiler NO.

Please don't go telling the media ecodriving is for normal people and hypermiling is for extreme people it is a false statement.

Ecodriving is for people that want to feel good about themselves but don't have any goal to push themselves towards. Hypermiling is for people that want to hold themselves accountable to some minimum standard.

OK... here's my $0.02.

"Hypermiling is EcoDriving with a clearly stated goal"

Specifically, the goal of bringing tank averages for some period above the United States EPA estimates for the car you drive. So by definition an American obsession.

11011011

I will buy into that Dan.

Let me just suggest that we consider where we all were at when we first started driving for FE. Many of us had some idea on how to do some things (web sites) and we may have had some good tools (hybrid vehicle or a Scan Gauge) but we never had any idea what we were capable of achieving. We couldn’t even imagine. When I started driving my Insight I thought 66 mpg was great. Little did I know.

FE driving is a process that may start very slow and tentative, but as one gets experience the driving becomes more intentional and with purpose. But it’s like going to school; you need the basic math from grade school before you can handle algebra in high school. It may not mean your incapable of algebra it’s that you don’t have the foundation for it. We can just look around us everyday and see the fuelishness of most other drivers. They drive the way they were taught when gas was cheap and do not know any other way of doing it. They must change their attitude first and then style next. But habits are hard to change and we need to be supportive and not judgmental. That’s were we need to help.

I feel uncomfortable when we may think that people may EcoDrive for a warm fuzzy feeling or that they do it just to feel good about themselves. What’s wrong with that? If they can improve the mileage of their vehicle we should applaud that. Hybrid owners buy their vehicles for many reasons and one may not be any more correct than another. If someone just wants to EcoDrive to save money at the pump why should we say that that’s not good enough and you need to do more? People will progress at their own pace and for their own reasons.

As we pitch EcoDriving we need to change habits and attitudes first and offer people the tools to achieve better FE. They will decide when and if they take it to the next step of Hypermiling. Most people may be happy with saving 10% off their gas bills and not pursue 10% over EPA and shouldn’t that be OK? I do not want our community of Hypermilers to forget that we all started slow and we need to nurture that idea of change in others. And yes there are even degrees in Hypermiling from conservative to the more extreme. We should never become too self righteous that everyone must do what we choose to do. The public needs our suggestions and help not our judgment on if they go far enough.

EcoDriving are tools that can be used by anyone who drives a vehicle (better FE). Hypermiling are tools that can be used by anyone wanting to achieve better than EPA ratings. Yes the later requires more work and is more intentional but do not think that working at the first is any less daunting a task, especially if you have been driving for years as if gas was cheap. Both are hard and we need to support both.

Bradlee

I also think that whatever you call it, the SAFETY aspects of
gentler and more aware driving should always be emphasized.
.
_H*

Dan, you ought to go print that somewhere. :-)
I think this is what is called an operational definition. You can use this and work with it. Of course it doesn't actually define ecodriving. Details, details.
And then you have another problem. There are the *new* EPA numbers. I think these are easily beatable with just regular safe careful non-speeding driving. I think the new one on my car is something like 27 combined or something like this (new one is 30 combined). I don't think I ever (over a length of time more than maybe a tank or something) got anything as low as that even in the summer. So my point is that if you can't beat those, you are just a goof off speeder teenager. (I know at least a few of them.) At least the old nos gave you something to work for a little bit.

--des



OK... here's my $0.02.

"Hypermiling is EcoDriving with a clearly stated goal"

Specifically, the goal of bringing tank averages for some period above the United States EPA estimates for the car you drive. So by definition an American obsession.

11011011

Dan, you ought to go print that somewhere. :-)
I think this is what is called an operational definition. You can use this and work with it. Of course it doesn't actually define ecodriving. Details, details.
And then you have another problem. There are the *new* EPA numbers. I think these are easily beatable with just regular safe careful non-speeding driving. I think the new one on my car is something like 27 combined or something like this (new one is 30 combined). I don't think I ever (over a length of time more than maybe a tank or something) got anything as low as that even in the summer. So my point is that if you can't beat those, you are just a goof off speeder teenager. (I know at least a few of them.) At least the old nos gave you something to work for a little bit.

--des

Yeah, that's been tossed around, but you loose the "clearly" in "clearly defined goal". The goal turns into:

"Bringing tank averages for a period some specified percentage (*) above the United States EPA estimates for the car you drive:

* = 0.000001% for 2007 and older; 20% for 2008 and newer.

Just doesn't sound as clear.

No, I didn't mean to do that at all. I was just pointing it out. I would certainly not like the definition getting into percentages. However, when we all get used to the new EPA nos. you would lose your definition a bit. If the new EPA no. for my car is 27 combined (not sure if that is right) then I was hypermiling before I knew the concept. I certainly think I was ecodriving- low speeds, no quick stops and starts, that kind of thing, but I didn't work at it. (BTW, I see a fair number of ecodrivers around-- people that don't try to pass me going 55 and so on. I think purchasers of cars like the Corolla, the Civic, Jetta, etc could almost all be considered Ecodrivers. I thought about mpg when I got the car back when. It was a major consideration.)

--des

Yeah, that's been tossed around, but you loose the "clearly" in "clearly defined goal". The goal turns into:

"Bringing tank averages for a period some specified percentage (*) above the United States EPA estimates for the car you drive:

* = 0.000001% for 2007 and older; 20% for 2008 and newer.

Just doesn't sound as clear.

Well, alas, with the new EPA numbers hypermiling will be easier to attain. And you probably won't need to EcoDrive to do it. Unfortunately thats the way definition goes. Or maybe not. Maybe people will see that they are hypermiling and think "I'm already hypermiling, lets see how far I can push my mileage." I guess we will have to see how this shakes out.

Ok so I was out yesterday driving around taking care of stuff. Some important, other stuff not important. Some time behind the wheel was pure fun and excitement and relaxation.

I got 34 mpg in city/town spotlights, stop signs, parking lots. Thats 1 mpg better than EPA hwy number for my car. Had the A/C on some. Tach saw redline more than once. Also the car went around a few corners as fast as it was going in a straight line.

So what was it? Eco Driving or Hypermiling? I clearly smashed EPA city for my car. And topped EPA hwy. I was driving aggressive.

I think we are on thin ice when we start debating the differences. Between the two definition's. And trying to shoe horn them on to different feet.

psy

It was hypermiling by definition, and not ecodriving.

Hence the need for two definitions. The words don't mean the same thing.

If I understand correctly it is possible to hypermile a Hummer (and for Psyshack to hypermile and drive like a carefree teenager at the same time:))

Would it be a contradiction in terms to ecodrive a Hummer?

Yeah, I think so, of course, I know I don't know much about it. OTOH, I think my 20 year old nephew could manage to double or triple the current EPA mileage ratings for the Corolla without really working on it (I mean I think he could easily get 12 mpg, maybe 6 mpg on a particularly hot day. :-} )

--des

If I understand correctly it is possible to hypermile a Hummer (and for Psyshack to hypermile and drive like a carefree teenager at the same time:))

Would it be a contradiction in terms to ecodrive a Hummer?

Yes ILAveo, it is possible to EcoDrive a Hummer, you can Ecodrive Any vehicle.

And yes you could also Hypermile in a Hummer too. In fact Wayne Gerdes would love to get his hands on one to do it.

Attempting either would be a very interesting endeavor.

Bradlee

Uh though if you buy the biggest (not sure it actually is) and heaviest car (it sure is the meanest looking--which i think is the point) for not much more reason than that you can, is that "eco"?? OTOH, if hypermiling is getting over EPA, I'm sure some of these guys (and gals) could do it.

--des