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http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/2/AmericanFlag.jpg And it arrives this Friday! (cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?p=273492)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/2011_Honda_CR-Z_in_San_Francisco.jpgWayne Gerdes - CleanMPG (cleanmpg.com) - July 6, 2010

2011 Honda CR-Z at the base of the famous San Francisco Golden Gate Bridge.

The all-new 2011 Honda CR-Z hybrid sports coupe is almost here and CleanMPG was just given permission to take one out for a drive. And it’s the beloved 6-speed stick no less!

While we may not have the backdrop to snap a pic like those in the San Francisco Bay area, I can tell you from first hand experience, the car looks even better in person. During the BMW 1200 GS ride late last month, we saw one of the first CR-Z’s heading to the Washington Press Fleet during a rest stop in Maryland. I spoke with the STI driver (a press fleet coordinator) and her exact word’s were “I love this car”. While she did not know about the aFCD or Eco Assist instrumentation, I cycled through the menus to have a look at the FE of this brand new CR-Z with less than 500 miles on the clock… What else would I be doing inside a CR-Z that was caught in the wild ;) Her FE was sitting dead on at 36.5 mpg while driving it like a bat out of hell down the I-95.

Although the CR-Z will not be available to the public until late August, its MSRP of just $19,200 makes it a somewhat attractive proposal. While it may not have the fuel economy of the HCH-II or HI-II, it is still as efficient as the rest of the segment but with an ever important additional factor that cannot be described in words just yet. That being it looks fast and should have included the ever important "F" in its moniker standing for “Fun”.

As we know, the 2011 Honda CR-Z is a slick looking two-passenger coupe with much more aggressive handling characteristics than most hybrids we have experienced in the past. With the Fit’s 1.5L i VTEC 4 mated to Honda’s latest iteration of Integrated Motor Assist (IMA), more performance is all but guaranteed from this light weight 2-seater. The six-speed manual transmission is a first for any hybrid that we have personally ever experienced while the more sedate can choose to drive Honda's Continuously Variable Transmission (CVT) including steering wheel-mounted paddle shifters. It is the stick we want and the stick we got that adds to the small sports car flavor while still offering a fuel efficient 34 mpg combined rating. We will be sure to test that rating out too :)

New for the CR-Z over and above the HI and HCH-II is a new gauge cluster. The Eco Assist indicators are still there but with a twist. Sport, Normal and Eco all have their separate switches and in Sport mode, the dash takes on a demon like red appearance vs. the soft blue and greens during Normal and Eco driving modes.

Infotainment

The CR-Z’s two trims include the well-equipped CR-Z (base) which now includes Cruise Control standard and the loaded up CR-Z EX. Standard on the base is an AM/FM/CD/USB audio system with six speakers, automatic climate control, power windows, locks and mirrors and remote entry.

And right from the release, the CR-Z EX adds a 360-watt AM/FM/CD high-power audio system with seven speakers – including a subwoofer – Bluetooth HandsFreeLink, leather-wrapped steering wheel. The CR-Z EX is also available with the Honda Satellite-Linked Navigation System with Voice Recognition. All which we hope to experience in the CR-Z headed our way!

While I do not know if we will be driving the Base or the EX yet, the EX’s upscale qualities would be preferred for all the right reasons :D

Safety

The CR-Z like all recent Honda models before it includes their Advanced Compatibility Engineering (ACE) body structure helping to protect vehicle occupants in the event of a frontal collision. Additional safety tech includes Vehicle Stability Assist (VSA); standard dual-stage, multiple-threshold front airbags; standard front-side airbags with passenger-side Occupant Position Detection System (OPDS); side-curtain airbags; active head restraints; an anti-lock braking system; a tire pressure monitoring system; and a pedestrian injury mitigation design in the front of the vehicle.

MSRP and EPA Details

As we have previously reported, here are the really important details.

Model|Transmission|MSRP|EPA City/Hwy/Combined (mpgUS)
CR-Z|MT|$19,200|31/37/34
CR-Z|CVT|$19,850|35/39/37
CR-Z EX|MT|$20,760|31/37/34
CR-Z EX|CVT|$21,410|35/39/37
CR-Z EX|With Navigation MT|$22,560|31/37/34
CR-Z EX|With Navigation CVT|$23,210|35/39/37
MSRP excludes tax, license, registration, $750 destination charge and options.

With FE matching that of the Audi A3 TDI, VW Jetta TDI and VW Jetta Sportwagen TDI with a stick, and even more when equipped with the optional CVT plus costing thousands less, I think this is going to be a really fun drive… Now I just have to come up with somewhere the wife and I need to go :D

Wayne,

We will finally get a change to see how good the Eco setting on the CR-Z is.

Wayne, You are welcome to stay at my HOME IN NY!!! (as long as you bring the cr-z with you), My little 7y/o brother is infatuated with that car and is DYING to see one. He begs me EVERYDAY if he could go see it! :D. I have the sucky job of telling him they only exist in the imagination.

Hi Ricardo:

Oh no, not another road trip to NY :D

If you are serious, let me know. Since you are a CleanMPG staff member, we can have your credentials faxxed in allowing you to drive it and your 7-year old brother will experience the ride of his life before the rest of the public gets their turn.

Kind of a neat story to add to the review as his big smile while behind the wheel (not moving of course ;)) will be on the CleanMPG home page :)

Good Luck

Wayne

I'm guessing you have to return it before Hybridfest. Otherwise, Madison would be a nice little road trip.

:bananalama:

Just put the deposit down on mine, you'll absolutely love it mate!

How far are you going with it? What direction?

Hi Ricardo:

Oh no, not another road trip to NY :D

If you are serious, let me know. Since you are a CleanMPG staff member, we can have your credentials faxxed in allowing you to drive it and your 7-year old brother will experience the ride of his life before the rest of the public gets their turn.

Kind of a neat story to add to the review as his big smile while behind the wheel (not moving of course ;)) will be on the CleanMPG home page :)

Good Luck

Wayne

Oh I know you love those trips to NY ;). His jaw would literally drop to the ground if he saw one. He goes out looking for them daily, poor kid. It would be nice if you are coming this way, I would definitely try meeting up with you some place and have a discussion/lunch/barbecue Im sure he'll remember it for the rest of his life, especially knowing that he got to sit behind the wheel before the public. If not I guess I could take him for a test drive when they come out.

I do like your story better however :p.

Wow, holy MOLY this is good news. Nice coup Wayne!

As Chuck already said, my big question is how does this thing do in Eco mode -- compared with the other good hybrids (HCH, Insight, Prius), with the similarly rated TDI, and with other highly rated conventionals like the Civic and Yaris?

Another interesting comparison would be with the Mini Cooper, since the CR-Z is clearly targeted at the same market.

Wayne, It was a no-brainer for Honda to entrust you with the CR-Z. They know this car will get the review it deserves. The other reviews have shown the sportiness of this little car, and with a review like yours, Honda needs it to show what this car is capable of doing on the road.

Awesome, I have high hopes for this coupe.

Cheers, nf

I'd even take off work to see it on it's way through!

Hi Nevyn:

We have to get you in on one of our "Road Trip Reviews" someday soon :D

Good Luck

Wayne

wayne,keep us posted! please! your road trips are magnetic! p.s. wayne what non hybrid car would you recomend for mostly highway mileage with only one person in it 90% of the time! it needs to be a new car! you can send me a private message if you want it to be private!

This is awesome news! Have fun and keep us posted. If you're in Michigan let me know. ;)

Ditto on coming out Michigan way.

I'm really curious to see some real world number and maybe get your general opinion on whether or not it's really got a sporty feel or not.

Great news! I'm very interested in what eco, normal, and sport mode MPG will indicate during steady state, flat cruising at 60 mph, in addition to what you can get using all of your great techniques.

Also requesting that you try some hard turns with stability assist turned off (in a safe area like a parking lot, of course).

Wait... when do you get the CR-Z? I'm going to be up in Chicago this weekend (my Insight 2, as well).

JP

CR-Z arrives on friday.

This should be interesting. :)

Be sure to check out the parcel tray fitments to see if it might be possible to order the rear seat components for a simple bolt on "upgrade." It might be worth considering for those of us who have small children and need somewhere to strap a child seat. ;)

For a hybrid vehicle that shares its basic body shape with the first-gen Insight, and 12 years of technological advancements behind it, I'm scratching my head trying to figure out how you could get 34MPG combined out of it while the old CVT Insight is rated at 47MPG.

The CR-Z appears to have a higher drag coefficient, and is frontal area is 6% larger - not too bad considering how single-minded the Insight-I's design was. Mass is a different story. How did the CR-Z get to be heavier than a Fit? It's even heavier than a base-model Civic.

Why did Honda label the knob "Eco / Normal / Sport"? They should have labeled it "Normal / Sport / Race" to pick up a few more mpg on the window sticker, and to get more people to use the Eco setting.

First-gen Insights aren't getting any newer, and I'll need a replacement someday. I'll be waiting to see if the CR-Z can be a worthy successor to the Insight and CRX-HF. I have a feeling this is not a car for an FE enthusiast, but let's see what Wayne can do with it.

Hi All:

I was really surprised to see all the interest in the 2011 CR-Z from the membership but am certainly glad to see it!

Joesgot4, that 11 Sonata would be a good choice due to its insanely low cost, well equipped nature and excellent FE for its size.

Aburk4 and Bnther, will do.

Dr61, I will certainly do some hard turns in our local mall parking lot when nobody is there. I am interested in its feel and I can bet it would tear up some of the faster competition at any local autocross due to its short wheelbase, better than Civic handling and the Fit’s powertrain with IMA boosting its output even further.

Regarding the ECO mode. I suspect that reduces A/C load when in use, CC ramp up, improves AS functionality in colder temps, reduces ECU output with a given throttle input ( Tip-in is softened) . Some of these I can test and others I cannot but I am thinking along the lines of the Insight-II’s ECO mode vs. Normal and Sport. Honda added a lot of tweaking but how far they went with the CR-Z is anyone’s guess? The CR-Z’s 1.5L Fit motor and IMA are not that much different other than an additional .2L in displacement and tuned more for acceleration then FE as the Fit is.

JPleong, my sons graduation party is this Saturday but if you want to come up to the Northern Reaches (IL/WI border and 7-miles off of Lake Michigan), PM me! The two together would make a heck of a pic/ride and drive!

Ricardo, let me know if you are interested as we have some paperwork to file if you want…

Sean, I thought it had LATCH connectors built in but that may have been one of the pre-production prototypes we saw way back when??? Before they went to the two seat coupe for the US and Europe received the 2+2 with LATCH.

Robert, I suspect Honda threw away the book on the FE to move toward a far more sporty character. Manuel and I were talking about this before the podcast last night. Spoon and Mugen are doing a lot of body panel and wheel add-on work for the boy racers and the CR-Z could actually turn out to be a true CRX replacement. Not with 500 HP engine mods or anything crazy like that but as a really sharp looking hatch that can be made to look like it came out of a comic book… Sorry for the bad description but that is the only thing I can think of regarding the add-ons and wheels.

Weight. IMA is a 200 pound penalty just by itself. Today’s body structures are probably another 200 to 300 pounds for the safety improvements over the ancient tin cans we used to drive. Add the Airbags and HS Steels for roof crush strength and pretty soon you are talking a real 700 + pounds. The original Insight was an aluminum masterpiece of course but this is more along the lines of a mainstream fun car with really good FE. I have to keep reminding myself that it is not an HCH-II with 80 + mpg capability but a small and “Fun” sports car with Jetta TDI, 250H, and A3 TDI type FE.

Cd – IIRC came in at 0.28. I have yet to post a spec sheet for it and will include it when I do.

Eco / Normal / Sport was probably named as a much more benign term than Normal / Sport / Race. We have to remember that this is not a race car. It is a hot looking hatch that can probably rip up on an autocross course due to its size and power to weight but it is not going to be a high FE Insight or CRX HF replacement. The Emisisons requirments and Precious metal costs are way to restrictive for the Leanburn modes of the past.

The CR-Z by all appearances is simply a different direction that Honda is taking. Whether the CR-Z works out or not from a sales perspective, who knows but to get someone in a 34 or 37 mpg rated mild sports coupe vs. what they could choose to drive seems like an excellent idea and worth the risk imho.

Good Luck

Wayne

Wayne, the best way to see just how much difference there is between the different modes and its throttle sensitivity what you can do is hold 30mph in 2nd gear, then hit the sport button and then you'll feel it pull away. Quite a bit of fun ;) In regards to your inqueries to the "tweaking" that has gone on compared to the Insight-II... its considerable, and frankly, amazing. If you don't end up wanting one of your own after the week, I'll be very very surprised :P

You are correct in assuming that it modifies the way the climate control in the vehicle works.

Hi All:

A beautiful white CR-Z EX w/ NAVI was just dropped off!

I have no-time to drive it today because we are prepping for my son’s Graduation party tomorrow but I did drive it around the block and it has some spirit in it! Familiar instrumentation with a twist, good seat adjustments and it is surely going to be fun… It just got back from the Playboy mansion with all the hotties in it earlier this week so it has to be hot, right :D

2011 Honda CR-Z EX w/ NAVI

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/2011_Honda_CR-Z_in_the_Drive.jpg
Dave Knotts of G.Schmitts dropping off the little beauty!

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/2011_Honda_CR-Z_in_front_of_Home.jpg
Fits well, doesn’t it :)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/2011_Honda_CR-Z_Close_up_side.jpg
A little artistic in the harsh afternoon sun…

Wayne

So.....which direction are you headed with it? :p You should have totally pulled a fast one on your son and said "Here's your graduation present!" with it.

Also, can I get the original resolution version of that tail corner shot? Totally awesome desktop wallpaper there.

...Also, can I get the original resolution version of that tail corner shot? Totally awesome desktop wallpaper there.

I second that motion.

Taking it on a road trip? ;)

Hi All:

First Drive to pick up an Ice Cream Graduation Cake at the local DQ with Great America Traffic really screwing things up…

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/CR-Z_First_Drive_aFCD_-_70_6_mpg.JPG

The aFCD tops out at 199.9 mpg as I have an ~ 100’ elevation fall leaving my home with the same climb coming back when I head into downtown Gurnee, IL.

The Good thing is it is really a sporty looker and handler. I pulled into an empty parking lot and swung her hard over at the end to experience. The CR-Z is going to be seen at a lot of Autocross events in the future.

FAS’ing is instant; bump start is the best I have ever experienced. Whenever bringing the car up off the key or a after a FAS , it defaults to normal so you have to tap the ECO button to get it to go in Eco. A small bump in one gear taller than your speed and she comes up without a hint of anything going on. Auto Stop works from 18 mph on down just like the older Insight-I and HCH-I with a stick! Well, the Insight at 22 to 23 mph but still nice to see it vs. the CVT’s at the crazy 5 or 6 mph non-sense.

Staying out of assist is way way easier than past Honda’s while in Eco. I mean you can actually accelerate some without it banging out Assist. I mean no assist until you are really wanting to move from a stop or going to get on it., not just the 4 bar type stuff we are always trying to avoid. Great job Honda!

Seat fabric is really upscale feeling and looking.

Sightlines are not so good through the B/C pillar section, there is no passenger side grab handle to assist people in and out of the passenger side, and there is no center arm rest. To grab the seat belt, you have to reach back behind you with your right hand. No way to get it with your left unless you are severely double jointed.

Eco Assist is done really nice as it’s a small ring section around the speedo/tach vs. the whole area behind the speedo like on the HI-II.

Up and downshift indicators are about as they should be. It has even asked me to upshift twice during the run. Asked three times to downshift as well :D

Not sure about this one but Three birds over the 6-miles almost committed suicide into the CR-Z while going down the road? Not sure if that was a fluke as I have not experienced that but maybe twice a year in all my travels over the years.

I have to go pick up the Chicken for the party now and will be driving the CR-Z again… Of course :D

Good Luck

Wayne

Looks good Wayne! ugh...if only...

Hi Ricardo:

It really does look nice... Still playing with the efficiency as I am now down to 67.0 :(

I found a setting to keep Eco on and we'll see if it holds the next time I head out. Possibly tomorrow.

Also, I was in a FAS into the Browns Chicken, Stepped on the Clutch and shifted into gear and it started back up! From a FAS! I tried to repeat that but could not. Also, the NAVI continues live through any manipulation as well. Well designed indeed!

Also, it is your left hand you have to reach back for the seat belt, not your right. It sits about 6" behind the seat and you cannot reach over your body to grab it. You have to reach back with your left, pull it forward and then cross it with your right.

Good Luck

Wayne

Well done either way. I do expect somewhat of a less than stellar trial period, still 67mpg isn't anything to be sneezed at.

Wayne, can you grab the belt from the lower bracket and pull it out that way? If you could start it that way then pull it the rest of the way with your right hand…

How tall is that top gear?

Hi Ricardo:

With all the people over at my son's graduation party today, the comments from the kids (12 to 23-year olds) were the most catching. Here are just two of them...
Kaitlyn - An 18-year old soon to be Iowa College student.

This car looks cool and I would love to own it. Dad, can I have one?
Anthony - A 13-year old that loves Hot Rods: It looks cool because its a sports car, it's impressive because it's an energy saving sports car and usually sports cars aren't!
Especially with the younger crowd, this thing may be a real sleeper?

Sean, the lower bracket is way back as well so its a grab with the left hand from behind and then move it to your right to cross over.

Also, there is no sun glass holder and the fan for the battery fan runs a lot with temps in the mid 80's to low 90's. With just plastic (no cloth rear seat) in the rear, you can hear the fan running now whereas before in the rest of the Honda hybrids, it was much harder to hear.

Tall sixth gear? Unfortunately not. 55 mph showed > 2K already IIRC :( First gear is low enough to allow a new driver to get it moving without too much trouble but I am already in fifth gear by 23 mph... Sixth at about 28 mph and the shift indicator at low LOD is already asking for the up-shift from 5th at 30 mph. If only they could have broadened its ratios by at least another 15% or more. It would do us proud but I have to keep reminding myself that this is made for a unique generation of driver. It is not made for 35 to 60 + year old auto journalists, it is truly made for the young hip crowd that wants to be seen and be noticed. And noticed they will be in the CR-Z! I also have to keep reminding myself it is as fuel effcient as the Jetta TDI, TCH, 250h... And from my perspective so far, it can topple them. We will see on the longer highway stretches later on this week...

This is the slickest 6-speed Honda has ever made. While slightly notchy, ICE isolation through both an IMA Key or Bump can be made seamless at any speed.

I think I will take it out towards Iowa on Monday to get a feel for it on both the Interstate and long country roads. I have to get out to a cemetery that my Grand Parents are buried to snap some pics for my dad plus walk down memory lane through my dad’s side of the family’s history in Woden, Iowa. What is left of it anyway?

Wayne

Well done either way. I do expect somewhat of a less than stellar trial period, still 67mpg isn't anything to be sneezed at.AH-CHOO!

6th gear at 30mpg? This thing has IMA for peak torque at 1000RPM. Why not gear it accordingly?

I hope the car sells well enough for them to make a CRZ-HF, because this clearly is not that car. My interest in the CR-Z is waning rapidly. :(

Hi, Wayne -- my Elantra is at 2K right around 50mph in top gear. :p

I got over no sunglasses holder in my Insight. ;)

Does the storage compartment area look easy to unbolt for replacement (seat parts from Japan)?

Hi Sean:

Someone could drop in the 2+2 seating from Europe or Japan but I do not see it happening. This car is a college student type car, not for a family vehicle other than a third vehicle to drive around and have some fun in.

While I have not looked up or posted the specs yet, its Turning Radius has got to be close to 30' as I pulled a left turn lane U-Turn on the Highway at a light. I went from center of the lane facing North to center of the adjacent lane facing south with maybe a 2' median between the two.

Because of its initial setup to go back Normal on any restart, when you hit Eco, you could feel the pedal input to output change within a 1 second of the switch.

Good Luck

Wayne

Hi Sean:

Someone could drop in the 2+2 seating from Europe or Japan but I do not see it happening. This car is a college student type car, not for a family vehicle other than a third vehicle to drive around and have some fun in.


Perhaps. There were a decent number of CRXs refitted with the rear seat from Japan and my impression is that it didn't offer more room than the CRZ does in that configuration. At the very least it would be sufficient for "emergency" seating for a 3rd adult (sideways) and could work for small children. I'm obviously fixated on carseats right now... and there is no good way to carry any in my Insight. (There is a way to tether one to the front passenger seat but it needs an airbag shutoff switch installed and isn't recommended.)

I'm not saying I'd spring for one but it is an entertaining thought. It would be more entertaining if the car could get to within 10mpg of what I normally hit in my Insight...

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/CR-Z_First_Drive_aFCD_-_70_6_mpg.JPG

That is a good start.

70.6 is CRX HF territory for sure....took one for around 76 mpg in 1988 going 50 over about 100 miles. Since it was nowhere near a tankful and no FCD, it's a guesstimate.

But again, it looks like a great start!

Hi All:

JPLeong stopped by this morning as he was in town to pick up his wife with his 2010 HI-II.

JP and his 2010 HI-II

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/JPLeong_and_his_2010_Insight-II.jpg

We did some some drives through the neighborhood, local inner city loops and some highway work to see what the Honda CR-Z could do out on the open slab. She may not be the next coming but these 65 to 70-mpg segments keep falling and in my book, that is not half bad!

And while he was here, we may as well take some pics of the brother and sister next to each other, right?

The Two Honda Hybrids standing at Parade Rest

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/2011_CR-Z_-_2010_HI-II_-Brother_and_Sister.jpg

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/2011_CR-Z_-_2010_HI-II_-Brother_and_Sister-II.jpg

It was really neat to see the two side by side like this.

JPLeong should be along when he gets back to Cincinnati to give his impressions of the CR-Z possibly tomorrow.

Wayne

Wayne,

Totally agree with you on all points of the car, its amazing, but the visibility is something that you actually get used to. When parking the CR-Z, I had a greater sense of the cars presence when parking than in any other car, including my instructor vehicle. There is a center arm rest available for the CR-Z, but alas it is an option, at least in Europe anyways.

The seats are incredibly comfortable and has a truly high quality feel to them as you have said. I hope you enjoy your week with the car my friend ;)

Hi Wayne;

Now, you've done it. You got me all excited and now I can't wait to try those two units. :)

But still, 67 MPG is not bat at all considering that this is the more visceral of the two transmission trims and I suspect that there may be more we can get out of these babies given a bit of time behind the wheel.

Also, glad to hear the electric assist is now greatly reduced at the lower speeds and low acceleration rates. This has always a major complaint of ours for years and it is nice to see Honda changing the rules a bit on the CR-Z.

Also, did you notice any discrepancy yet between the indicated MPG's and the actual MPG at the pump?

Just for giggles: When at steady state in gears above 3rd, if you let off the accelerator a bit and then gently reapply, to you see the typical electric only push? While I don't think it is worth much, I am kind of interested in seeing how much basic power-train management DNA they carried over from the HI-II especially since they stated the traditional hybrid contribution was going to be lower on the CR-Z.

In case you haven't been told enough... keep those reports coming. :D



Cheers;

MSantos

Hi Gordon:

Sightlines are a little tough coming from the HI-I, HI-II and Prius-II and –III split rear window hatches. This one has the smallest views. But the exterior looks so nice ;)

About that exterior. The roof profile is about the flattest I have seen in a car to date. Remind me to snap a close-up as it has an interesting profile close up. You could almost have dinner on the roof with the integrated rear spoiler into a Kammback taking care of the turbulence coming off the back of the rear window.

Also, the ECO mode will stay locked in during startup after finding it in the settings menu. That said, you can really customize the CR-Z. From the lights and locks to the instrumentation. A lot for the owner to "play" with which the younger folks tend to do.

I almost wish Honda would give these out to 50 or so 21 - 25 year olds because they would come away from the CR-Z with an entirely different perspective than the stodgy Auto Journalists have to date. This thing is really fun with the hand shaker. If I were a single guy, I would rather drive it than a Prius or HI-II because it is such a fun car to swing around. The FE may not be Prius and HI-II like but it is certainly Jetta TDI like so far and that was a fun handling car but lacked the futuristic interior instrumentation and controls that Honda has included with the CR-Z.

MSantos, I love this lack of assist while driving it. You step into it and its all there. You simply drive it and once in a while you might see one or two bars if in to tall a gear for the terrain but rarely do you see it. There seems to be a hidden bar of forced charge that has been up for most of the time I have been driving. I have not seen SOC at anything but 6-bars the entire time I have driven it so you do not have to play the SoC management game like we have had to in the HI-I, HI-II, HCH-I and HCH-II. Just drive it and you never have to concern yourself that SoC was two bars low and you are heading to a Forced charging situation like every other IMA equipped hybrid in the past. It is almost like Honda has decided to listen to us and stopped the SoC management nightmare we have all been through at one time or another :D. Honda really did make this work good.

Regarding FE from the aFCD to actual, I have not yet topped off the car for the FE details but will do it tomorrow and go for the drive for SG-II calibration and aFCD to actual error rates.

Also, the brakes have far less Regen/fake braking feel than before. I am sure that is to the detriment of its FE but it feels much more normal than most hybrids as they transition.

I have yet to do any soft glides or any of that yet as I have been driving it for such a short distance but we’ll get into that here very soon. Maybe tonight after the Steady State drives?

Ride Handling

Given it has the wheel base of a Mini, its ride is compliant but rougher than the std. mid-size land yacht. Accord, Camry, Fusion, Malibu, Sonata all apply in the land yacht like feel by comparison.

With JP at my side, I took him through one of my handling test areas at the empty large concrete pad at Illinois’ most Northern Truck weigh station on US-41. Incident was about 30 mph and I turned the wheel hard. It did not understeer and it did not oversteer. Simply a nice balanced touch as all 4 wheels were squealing away in the decreasing radius impediment avoidance handling test as speed was bled off to 10 mph. A very good neutral handling feel from start to finish. The manufacturers are getting really good at this as of late and Honda did its usual excellent job with the CR-Z.

I will try and get out later tonight and knock out the Steady State Speed tests on I-94 between the IL/WI border and Milwaukee, WI. It looks like rain right now so those tests may be delayed.

Wayne

I agree with you that most auto journalists when it comes to the CR-Z are frankly, idiots. All of my friends here, like myself, are under 30 and everyone I know is absolutely OBSESSED with fuel economy. I have showed them all the CR-Z and they think its the most exciting thing they've seen since they first got online about 12 years ago when we were all kids. Older folks here just don't seem to 'get' the CR-Z and why its exciting. Its a beautiful, well build vehicle, full of high technology, brilliant style and extremely economical.

More importantly for the younger market, its a fashion statement. The CR-Z is the iPod of automobiles. Just like the Citroen DS3, the new Mini and other such cars which are establishing a cult following, its all about being a fashion accessory and what it says about you. I predict that because of that the CR-Z will be quite popular here.

I've noticed that someone a few blocks up from where I live has a black CR-Z and the intense jealousy that came over me with a car was unreal. I have never felt that with someone driving one of the new Jag's or an Aston Martin, but when I saw that I admired, and hated the guy at the same time, because he got his before I got mine!

Like you said Wayne, its fun to throw around :D The same day I done the 124mph run in the CR-Z I decided to see just how well it could slide and flick into corners, and it is soooo brilliantly balanced and so much fun. Easiest car I've been able to do a Scandinavian Flick in it. I really shouldn't be saying that because I'm a driving instructor, but I'm also a total gearhead and can't help it haha! As soon as I get the car I'm taking it to the Crail or Knockhill tracks.

The ride is nothing compared to say, a top of the line Citroen or Jaguar, but for a low sport coupe, its bloody amazing, even compared to the Fiesta. The seating is just a dream though. Good thing it doesn't have a massage facility or I'd fall asleep in it. If I can get one of those seats for my instruction car, I'd be a very happy man.

Hi All:

Temps of 66 - 68 degrees F, a wisp of a cross wind and low traffic volume between 01:00 and 03:30 AM from the IL/WI border to Milwaukee and back again a number of times. Tire pressures at 55 psi and I allowed the rain soaked highways to dry before I began the multiple runs at multiple speeds… Set CC at the target, reset the aFCD as soon as I crossed a given even number elevation and after at least 5-miles while crossing the same elevation, I would record the aFCD.

The Eco Mode based steady state - CC FE numbers are as follows:

45 mph - 58 mpg
50 mph - 53 mpg
55 mph - 49 mpg
60 mph - 46 mpg
65 mph - 43 mpg
70 mph - 38 mpg
These are averages off the aFCD which I do not have an calibration vs. actual FE yet.

In Sport Mode, the 60 mph speed target yielded 1 mpg lower than the Eco mode at 45 mpg.

Eco Mode would allow as much as a 4-mph droop (DWL) when climbing yet used a lot more short assist bursts at 60, 65 and 70 mph then I would ever allow if the accelerator were under my control. Sport mode hung at 60 mph dead even with actually fewer assist blasts while maintaining the 60 mph speed.

Those Gear Ratios...

In sixth we had the following:

50 mph - 2,050 RPM's
60 mph - 2,450 RPM
70 mph - 2,900 RPM

Sort of linear as it should be but we know where the Highway FE went.

Speedometer vs. GPS. The Speedo was dead on at 50 mph but was 1 mph over at 70 mph compared to the GPS.

Lights On like all IMA systems before it pushed SoC up a bit. During daylight hours (DRL's only) and lights off, 6-bars is IMA's normal seek. With lights on, IMA seeks 7-bars.

Manuel, there is a type of glide mode but it is not like we are used to in the HCH-II or HI-II. To make it appear, I would build SoC up so no forced charging appears, let off to get a short 4 to 6 bars of regen and reapply the accelrator slowly to no bars showing. In this mode, it was a clean glide by all appearances but I will play with this more once I have an SG-II hooked up to watch it. No Samba but it appeared to be a clean fuel cut glide for the briefest of moments. As soon as you added a fraction of accelerator pedal, the injectors would come on and the engine would take over. No Electric assist glide w/ the ICE’ injectors shut down that I could tell.

When the 60 + mph CC speed runs were in progress and some of the overpass climbs saw upwards of 8-bars of assist, SoC dropped to as little as 3-bars with a quick recovery from a 1-bar forced charge that I have been writing about since yesterday.

To go along with that heavier than I would ever use Assist at the higher speeds under CC, the Pack fan is a bit loud when it runs due to no seat in the back to mask it.

Road and interior noise at speed… Above 60 mph and you begin noticing the road and wind noise coming in strong.

Ventilation. Does not seem as powerful as it could be? Even at max fan, a lot of noise but not as much air flow as I would have expected.

I need some sleep as there are a few other items…

Wayne

2050 rpm at 50 mph is exactly the same as my Civic. Sad to see that spec, given the extra gear they had to play with. Most days I drive mine like a short-top, tall-bottom, close ratio 4-speed using only 2,3,4,5. Only on uphill starts to I use first.

For my normal driving cycles, though, the gear ratios are fine. I legally can't go over 55 anywhere on my commute, and that's only for one short segment. It's on the occasional highway trip that I start to hate the revs.

...
In sixth we had the following:

50 mph - 2,050 RPM's
60 mph - 2,450 RPM
70 mph - 2,900 RPM

...

Hi Wayne,

I agree with Andrew on the RPMS as well. As we had discussed, this was a serious possibility even though we had "sort of" hoped for the opposite.

... which may push the FE advantage on the highway once again to the CVT equipped model. So, the CVT model would win on several counts:

- Potentially higher gearing for lower RPM, higher FE on the highway segments
- Active suppression of engine output on the CVT trim that automatically implies higher FE (but lower 0-60 performance than the MT6).
- A more authoritative PCM with broader control over the ICE and hybrid functions (still need more detail info on this one though).


On the braking experience... also as discussed, that is exactly what the design team had stated. In addition to the benefits of a steadier and healthier SoC, the frequent sub-1 bar regen may be a real necessity when paired with a diminished regenerative braking profile.


Awesome details. Please, keep 'em comin' ;) :D



MSantos

Eco Mode would allow as much as a 4-mph droop (DWL) when climbing yet used a lot more short assist bursts at 60, 65 and 70 mph then I would ever allow if the accelerator were under my control. Sport mode hung at 60 mph dead even with actually fewer assist blasts while maintaining the 60 mph speed.


This is one of my major complaints driving the Insight II. Such a large drift seems to create a needless waste of energy to make up the difference. Around Cincinnati highways ECON seems to actually consume more fuel for Steady-State driving than normal mode. ECON's muted throttle response, however, makes finding the glide point and maintaining 2k RPM during P&G acceleration much easier.

JP

Hi All:

That was a long night waiting for the roads to dry...

When hitting minor bumps and expansion strips, the CR-Z does not even make a noise. When driven over a pot hole for example, it take s a good hit but the suspension does not loose its composure. I have a left hand turn over an ~ 1" pavement to curb sharp edge and then the sd. 2 to 3" rolling curb after that and the CR-Z handles it well but there is a lot of rear suspension noise intrusion. I suspect all cars are equally noisy but with just plastic in the back seat, you "hear" a lot more.

Honda's Hybrid Instrumentation like all IMA equipped vehicles is top notch and is only getting better. The green is good mantra (glow around the Speedometer) is a very good feedback device during acceleration. More so than the iFCD and the upshift/downshift indicator. During accel, it will turn blue just as the upshift indicator indicated upshift. However, once at 30 mph and you are in sixth, it stay green.. For probably ever? I suspect it stays green on the highway whenever you are above its EPA combined of 34 mph and as you can tell by steady state FE data above, you would have to be driving 75 + mph before you would reach that low of a number. I never drive 75 mph or more so she'll always be green more than likely :)

When a Press Fleet car arrives, the handlers usually fill it up to first click somewhere along the way from its past location so you are not full like we like. I have only placed about 175 miles on it during this initial testing phase and the tank is already down about 7/16. I will fill it later today and take it out for a good lengthy run tomorrow. Due to it having a stick, blowing by EPA is easy of course but the steady state numbers are only so so for what we are used to. Expected given the EPA and all but you have to go advanced for the larger numbers vs. CC and let it do all the driving... I was impressed that ECO allowed the std. speed droop during a climb which means Honda’s latest IMA based Eco Mode is ahead of everybody else.

Good Luck

Wayne

Some of my thoughts...

One of the things I just have to glow about (and absolutely envy) is the instrument cluster. It's laid out well with the return of SOC and FE on separate screens instead of the single MID on the Insight 2. The controls of the FCD/system computer should be familiar to anyone who has spent time with an Insight 2 or the newer Fit.

I felt the quality of plastics was of a "higher" quality than in the Insight 2 and also took note of the added chrome-plastic. While I could do without the chrome-stuff the "better" plastic felt like it would be less-prone to scratching (something I've done a bit of to the interior of my Insight 2).

As Wayne said before the seatbelts take some reaching to get to even if the seat is push to the farthest back it can go. That felt kind of weird but, now that I think about it, that made the ingress/egress from the car a no-strainer.

I thought the trunk (rear "seat" down) was roomier than the trunk in my friend's Insight 1 but, obviously, couldn't verify that. It was certainly big and it looked capable of holding one of my guitars (if not two). I wish I had brought it to try the fit.

The play of the accelerator and the brake are a dream-come-true. This is absolutely the least spongy pedal feedback system ever. Even the throttle response difference between ECON and NORM didn't seem as drastic as on the Insight II.

And not being a manual-transmission guy, FAS with a bump-start is the coolest thing ever. I should point out that Wayne actually (graciously) taught me to drive stick on this outing. My wife was happy to hear that since she's been goading me to learn.

Wayne, one thing I forgot to ask you about while I was driving the CR-Z (and trying to not stall, lol!) was what you felt about the height of the pedals. The clutch felt "higher" than the other pedals but, not being a normal stick-shift driver, I didn't know if that was normal.

JP

Hi JP:

Thanks for your input as always!

Regarding the clutch pedal reach, it feels normal for me but I am attuned to sticks. I have to top it off tonight before the long drive in the morning and will try and make a mental note of the pedal placement.

Good Luck

Wayne

Hi All:

The 2011 Honda CR-Z peering out of the darkness for her initial fill…

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/2011_CR-Z_-_At_Gas_Station_for_initial_fill.jpg

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/2011_Honda_CR-Z_Initial_Top_Off.jpg
Topped off :) 2,068 miles on the ticker and everything reset.

63.5 mpg w/ 1.8 miles as it sits in the drive right now.

Something neat about this is the CR-Z is the first car/truck that I have filled with an almost vertical fuel fill port. Less chance of spillage and it just seems like the right thing to do vs. most with steep angled fill nozzles.

And this is a really cool addition… Looking from the Drivers seat towards the rear window.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/2011_Honda_CR-Z_Rear_Interior_Lighting.jpg
The rear interior light(s) are wide angled beams that face forward and light
the interior much better than flush mounted ceiling mounted units.

In addition, the EX comes with Xenon HID’s which not only have a superior cutoff but are so bright to the sides I wish all cars had them!

I did look up the turning radius which is 35.4’. Not as tight as I had expected but still one of the very best on the road.

Somehow Honda has made the torsion beam rear end hold very well. More than likely it’s the tires but the package is really a fun to drive solution for the twenty something’s that would more than likely love to own this Fun to Drive Sports Coupe.

The Rear privacy slider is sitting behind the rear seats so it does not fly around. It took a minute but again, somebody was thinking outside the box. It is not a puzzle piece to figure how to get out of the channel, its two ends squeeze in about ½ of an inch and you pull it out.

Good Luck

Wayne

Hi All:

And my Drive Route for later today...

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/Wadsworth_IL_to_Woden_IA.jpg
Home to my own past - The Gerdes' from Germany settled in Woden, IA over 125 years ago...

Good Luck

Wayne

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/2011_Honda_CR-Z_Rear_Interior_Lighting.jpg
The rear interior light(s) are wide angled beams that face forward and light
the interior much better than flush mounted ceiling mounted units.

I noticed that when we were talking about the fake rear seats. That's a nice use of the rear seatbelt tensioner location instead of just sticking a plastic blank.

JP

And some pictures:

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_sLlvn1nWagI/TDyGs3X9NfI/AAAAAAAAAA4/HPUtaDaAOhk/s640/Leongjp_0912.jpg

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_sLlvn1nWagI/TDyGtNJscEI/AAAAAAAAAA8/z9iRp3-Q4TY/s640/Leongjp_0915.jpg
This is the (awesome) dash of the CR-Z. As you can see, everything is laid-out logically and follows a similar ethic to the Insight II dash. We also have the return of mostly digital readouts. The very nice thing is the SoC (state of charge) indicator that isn't nested in the MID menus.

As you can see in the bottom right, it is capable as a high-FE machine -that's a combination of my awkward steady-state driving (north) and Wayne's actual advanced hypermiling (south). Now that I think about it, that number includes Wayne's stability test, too. Can't wait to see what the CR-Z is capable of when Wayne actually hypermiles her...

JP

From the way the car looks and it seems to have the handling characteristics that can be built on, I see a combined market. The younger sect can carry forth the efficiency (or at least some) and make a great looking street machine.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/CRZ_hot.jpg

Being able to see SoC and AvgFE simultaneously is a nice change from the other hybrids I've seen.

Hi All:

Looking for McDonald's w/ WiFi and found one abour half way between Dubuque and Waterloo, IA.

Crossed the Mississippi at 62.0 as Hwy 20 went from four lanes to two and I had to pick it up to +5/-5 around the PSL of 55 mph. The the hills before Galena to Dubuque took her down from 63.9 mpg as a high so far.

I pulled into this McDonald's and a group of Teenagers behind the counter started asking questions with mouths wide open...
Employee Chelsea: What kind of car is that as it looks really cool!!!

Wayne: It is the 2011 Honda CR-Z.

Employee Chelsea: How fast does it go?

Wayne: Faster than the speed limit :rolleyes: :D :D :D

Employee Chelsea: Is it a five speed?

Wayne: It is a 6-speed.

Employee Chelsea: Really? I have got to check it out! I have never seen a car like that!!!

Then the group pressed their faces to the windows to take a look.
Should I race out of the parking lot to grab their attention? Nah, that woold take off 3/10ths.

As stated previously, The CR-Z does not belong in the hands of someone like me or any other Auto Journalist. It belongs in the hands of a group of kids that just graduated from college and are looking to write a story on a really cool car ;)

If the CR-Z were a rag top, the Miata would die a slow and lonely death too!

With the hills, I am FAS'ing wherever it makes sense of course so that is nothing new. The really neat thing is the NAVI, 12V to the phone, Bluetooth and stereo stay live as they are supposed to after the bump. I can just imagine the engineers designing the CR-Z having a discussion. The Performance guys are saying we are going to gear it insanely low to grab the kids imagination. The FE Engineers are overridden but they incorporate a Keep Alive solution for the electronics just for CleanMPG members who push the envelope ;)

Stereo is not a super HQ unit even with all 360W but it can blast some noise. A kid thingie again :)

Assist will come on when its needed and the forced charge will bring it right back. I have seen a low of 4 bars during 500 + ft climbs and 8-bars on the return. She is getting used to 7 bars even while cruising down the highway... Interesting that I am using two bars of assit in fifth and it is srill flashing an upshift indicator at me at 40 + mph???

Still have not really let it loose yet so maybe tomorrow.

Mike, Although breaking IMA will be tough, I can see the 20 something tuners wanting to get their hands on the CR-Z too.

Dan, While the Fiesta has a cheap price and Sync, it is still a cheap rendition of a more expensive car. The CR-Z's dash is a wrap around unit that is an upgrade from the iCDTi we drove a few years back. Every bit as good as an Accord, Fusion Hybrid or anything else one may be interested in... Really well done.

At the same time, it is missing a few pieces. No arm rest for one.

Talk with you all soon.

Wayne

Hi All:

A few pics with more details later. She has an SHM mode but only for suburban travel under ~ 38 mph with LOD < 33%.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/Fields_of_Corn_at_dusk.jpg
2011 near Iowa Fields of Corn at dusk

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/CR-Z_in_Woden_IA.jpg
2011 Honda CR-Z in Woden, IA.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/CR-Z_with_Wind_Turbines.jpg
2011 Honda CR-Z with Wind Turbines in Iowa.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/CR-Z_at_the_pump_in_Britt_IA.jpg
2011 Honda CR-Z Review at the pump in Britt, IA.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/65_0_after_431_miles.jpg
2011 Honda CR-Z - 65.0 mpg after 431 miles per the aFCD.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/Final_Topoff_in_Britt_IA.jpg
2011 Honda CR-Z – She’s topped off.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/6_543_gallons.jpg
2011 Honda CR-Z - 6.543 gallons over 431.0 miles = 65.872 mpg.
aFCD reads almost 1.5% under actual :)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/CR-Z_at_the_movies_in_Clear_Lake_IA.jpg
2011 Honda CR-Z at the movies in Clear Lake, IA.

Good Luck

Wayne

Not bad! Nothing compared to the first gen Insight but quite respectable for a sporty coupe. :thumbs_up:

She has an SHM mode but only for suburban travel under ~ 38 mph with LOD < 33%.About how many mpg can you hold at <38mph?

Wayne, how would the Insight-II compare to the CR-Z's 65mpg under the conditions you've been driving?

Well, right now the CR-Z looks like less than half a 2011 Hyundai Sonata, for the same price. The Sonata seats 2.5 times as many people, beats the CR-Z 0-60 mph, has about double the luxury, has essentially the same turning radius, and gets roughly the same FE. Wayne solidly hated the S2000, so I'm not sure how he can spin the CR-Z into a desirable vehicle. Even its Insight-II base platform is more capable and a better value.

Hi Sean:

With all the additional safety gear and HS steels, the much larger and more potent 1.5L Fit engine with IMA attached, it did perform well.

Robert, when between 28 and 38 mph with LOD < 33% and IGN between 23 and 27, the CR-Z would hold 70 to 80 mpg. The window was not nearly as large or as fast as the HCH-II but when in it, 65 + was an easy target to shoot for. After I got off of US Hwy 20 in Webster City, I headed north on desolate country roads in the middle of the night. The HID’s were great for lighting but they were pointed just a little low so I had to use the Hi-Beams (standard Halogen) for most of the North facing drive. The deer out there do not run across the road like they do in IL, they walk slowly as did the Skunks, Possums and Raccoons. I kept it under 45 mph for probably 50 + miles other than the occasional small towns with 35 mph limits until I got to Woden which saw her at 64.2 mpg and 400.2 miles when I stopped for the night.

Dan, I was skeptical of the CR-Z doing anything compared to the HI-II and HCH-II when this car arrived. The CR-Z w/ the 6-speed is rated at just 34 combined while the HI-II is rated at 41 mpg combined. I would say the CR-Z is a lot closer to the HI-II vs. the EPA delta’s between the two. I am guessing the HI-II would have allowed maybe 68 to 70 mpg for that trip? 65.8 vs. 68 is nothing really. This is not blasting down the freeway at 65 + mph however. It is a relaxing 50 to 55 mph with the occasional FAS thrown in for the steeper sections and droop to the minimums during the steep climbs when no traffic was around on US-20.

Darrell, the S2000 was a 21 mpg combined rag top with no space in the rear and cost south of $34,000. A total waste and only helps to keep us hooked to the oil addiction habit. The CR-Z w/ a 6-speed stick is rated at 34 mpgUS combined (same as the Golf and Jetta TDI’s), has room in the hatch to stow “stuff” and costs less than $20K brand new. I think you can do the math on this one… It is the same reason I do not blast the Tesla Roadster. They are not tying us to the pump like an addicted junkie shooting heroine in the back room of a flop house. The S2000 did exactly that.

The 2011 Honda CR-Z

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/CR-Z_at_the_movies_in_Clear_Lake_IA.jpg

The Lake Theater in Clear Lake, Iowa was the first movie theater I was given permission to go to by myself. IIRC, my dad gave me two bucks for the movie, some pop and popcorn and away I went. I was about 8-years old and saw the movie Tora Tora Tora. One of my fondest memories and it occurred over 400-miles from my home at this very location almost 40-years ago to the day.

Just to the right but I cropped it out was the corner drug store with a malt shop inside. My parents took my sister and me there and we used to order the best milk shakes money could buy…

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/2011_CR-Z_-_2010_HI-II_-_In_Downtown_Clear_Lake.jpg

The Boat Launch right at the end of the street in downtown Clear Lake, Iowa. It was 95 degrees F with a heat index of 114 yesterday. Just to the left of this pic is the municipal beach which I spent many a Saturday afternoon at swimming.

Just to the right was the Municipal Park with band shell. When I was 5, I won a prize (a stuffed bunny IIRC) by finding one of the special Easter Eggs at the Egg Hunt on Easter Sunday morning in 1967. Made the local paper and just another one of those memories not 75-yeards from the spot the CR-Z is parked for the pic.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/2011_Honda_CR-Z_at_the_Mason_City_Airport.jpg

This is a shot of the CR-Z at the Mason City Airport. My father spent many hours there as a kid helping pilots do stuff for free rides up into the sky. While he never did pick up a pilot’s license, he still loves to fly and anytime it’s a single or dual prop job including float planes, he is almost giddy with excitement. He’d rather fly in a Bombardier or Cessna twin over a jet any day of the week.

That however was not the purpose of this shot. My mom flew out to Iowa in 1960 or 61 and landed at this very airport in what had to be a DC-3 of all things… I will have to look at the pics in my parent’s photo album again but it was big, silver and had twin props… She went out there to meet my grandmother for the very first time and spent much of the next two days in bed due to being air sick from the experience.

2011 Honda CR-Z A/C and FE

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/2011_Honda_CR-Z_-_53_3_mpg_over_378_6_miles_with_AC.jpg

For those that do not think the CR-Z can handle A/C, I would say this is a respectable result. While in Eco Mode, the CR-Z’s A/C would pulse with a few seconds on and a few seconds (maybe 20-seconds or so between the cycle) off to keep you cool. The way I notice it was I a higher speed NICE-ON and the SG-II kept popping back from 230 mpg to over 400 mpg a few times. I shook my head for a while trying to imagine what the heck was causing that as the DC to DC Inverter was not kicking out. I put my hand to the A/C vent and you could feel it cool quickly when the FE went down with temperature increasing while the FE went up. From a personal standpoint, I could not feel the difference unless I put my hand right up to the vents. Probably well under the 2-degree comfort delta threshold that most would feel anyway. And cool it would. Run it at 65 degrees and it would get you down to that level fast and hold it there as fan speeds dropped automatically even with ambient exterior temps in the mid-90’s in the mid-day sun.

During an Auto-Stop, the Fan would go to a very slow speed (barely moving anything) and would hold this mode for at least two minutes as that was my longest light while driving around Clear Lake and through downtown Mason City. After a minute, it was getting warmer in the car but nothing I would move from Eco to Normal or Sport Mode and allow the Engine kick on for.

Standard fan based ventilation (no A/C) from both the driver and passenger side was a bit weak even with the fan speed jacked up to full. Anytime you were above 50% of the Fan bars, it got noisy as well.

Where the worst FE hit came was between Madison and Racine, WI. It was raining so hard that 50 mph was overdriving my lights big time. The CR-Z was barely pulling 45 mpg until the rain stopped and then she picked right back up again.

2011 Honda CR-Z Blindspot

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/2011_Honda_CR-Z_Blind_Spot.jpg

This one is a real bitch to put it lightly. I think I know where it is coming from too. Honda got smashed in the latest IIHS crash test results because their roof strength numbers were not nearly in line with the IIHS’ standards for Top Pick recommendations. Just like the 11 Hyundai Sonata, the CR-Z’s A, B and C-Pillars are massively thick which I could not figure out until the IIHS crash test idea. I am not sure but I believe the IIHS has a lot to do with this and if so, there will be a lot more side swipes in the future as manufacturers beef up the A, B and C-Pillars for that once in a billion mile rollover… In terms of the number of accidents, injuries and deaths, this could end up being a losing proposition for all of us?

I have to take my wife out in the CR-Z and will be back later ;)

Good Luck

Wayne

Color me impressed!

I agree with you about the pillars, Wayne. Wide pillars and blind spots bug the heck out of me, and the chance of a well-handling car with a low COG like the CR-Z rolling is indeed remote. Top-heavy SUVs need a lot more rollover protection than cars, but the IIHS isn't making this distinction yet. Hopefully when their clients start filing claims for blind spot induced fender benders, they'll wake up.

And hey, I remember those spots in Clear Lake from about 30 years ago myself.

Wayne,
How do you adjust your mirrors?
I follow the SAE recommendations/guidelines in my HI-II so the B and C pillar blind-spots don't bother me much anymore. But with the smaller mirrors on the CR-Z, I could see how that could be a problem.

JP

SAE mirror guidelines work well on freeways, but kind of suck in urban environments because they depend on your center mirror for distance viewing, and you can't see straight back any distance with the side mirrors. This is critical when pulling out of parking spots where your center mirror is blocked by the vehicle behind you.

I tried SAE for a few months, but since I do most of my driving in town and park on the street daily, I abandoned it. I did learn from the experience, and now leave my left mirror slightly outboard of where I used to, and my right mirror about halfway between "standard" and SAE. It still reduces my blind spots considerably from what I had before.

My dream car would automatically switch between SAE positioning at higher speeds and "standard" positioning at low speeds! Or at least offer an A/B switch for quick manual changes.

Hi All:

G.Schmitz drove the little beauty back home this morning but not until I got its Comp P&G and Finals w/ and w/out AC from Iowa and back completed…

2011 Honda CR-Z – Saying Goodbye

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/2011_CR-Z_-_Saying_Goodbye.jpg

JP, I adjust the mirrors into the blind spot and away from the car but a head check is still a necessity with the mirrors backing what is seen up. I check my mirrors initially, perform a head check and check the mirrors again before a lane change but I never trust mirrors alone. The blind spot to the left is possibly the worst I have experienced in an automobile unfortunately as you simply cannot see into it even with my head against the window and leaning as far forward as I can :(

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/2011_CR-Z_-_113_5_mpg_Comp_P_G_and_59_3_mpg_for_entire_drive.jpg
Unadjusted 113.5 mpg (114.9 mpg actual) RT Comp P&G segment. Unadjusted
59.3 mpg (60.0 mpg actual) w/out A/C heading out and with A/C coming back.

Dan, as you can see from the above, the stick based 2011 CR-Z would destroy the CVT based HI-II and I am quite positive the CVT based CR-Z as well when taking it to its limits. The highest I have achieved in an HI-II (they come std. with CVT's) was 96.x mpg something and the CR-Z literally took it to the woodshed. Honda CVT's are poor performers in our realm other than a really tall ratio while on the highway... Something Honda could have remedied but decided they needed a 30% lower ratio so someone racing around in sixth gear could stay in sixth gear instead of downshifting to fourth like they will be doing anyway? The Comp P&G segment at just under 115 mpg was a RT loop just to my north with two lights and four stop signs encountered. I had one blown FAS but recovered after maybe 15 seconds or so...

I forgot another item. Bluetooth hands free is not to Honda’s usual HQ standard? It is hard to understand incoming calls for some reason and Honda uses essentially the same setup in all of their vehicles? I tried playing around with the Bass and Treble, Fade and Balance and even the sub-woofer control and could not make an incoming call sound clean for some reason?

2011 Honda CR-Z front storage spaces

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/2011_CR-Z_-_Front_Storage_and_Glove_Compartment.jpg
Deep front storage w/ 2-Cup Holders, Aux port and 12V outlet. Battery charger, camera, cell phone
and charger plus SG-II stored as shown. Small glove compartment on the right of course.

About the handling… While coming through Dodgeville, WI on highway 18, you go from a 55 or 65 mph 4-lane to a 55 mph 2-lane IIRC and into a Roundabout. Little warning about this either. I came in and saw it ahead. Instead of bringing her down to sub 20’s, I let her hang in the 30’s in the outside ring with no traffic entering or exiting the roundabout just before dusk the other day. That thing held like it was on rails. While I am exaggerating of course, it really does handle well as written a few pages back.

Good Luck

Wayne

Hi All:

More on the 2011 Honda CR-Z’s storage capacity…

Max and Minimum Storage Setup

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/2011_CR-Z_-_Rear_Hatch_-_Max_and_Mniimum.jpg
Rear Hatch setup for minimum and maximum capacity with separator (what would normally be a rear seat) first up and then down.
My carry on luggage, back pack with Laptop, very large rolled up 0 degree sleeping bag in back and the Atlas, water (and usually a
12-pack of Pepsi but I drank it all already ;)) in the rear storage recesses. With its max cap, everything is laid out and there is still
room for another carryon, sleeping bag, air mattresses and tent if need be...

Privacy Shade installed

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/2011_CR-Z_-_Privacy_Shade_Installed.jpg
As seen, the shade hides everything. And can be pulled out in seconds as
you push in a side and pop it out. It stores behind the rear seats easily.

True Reclining Seats in the CR-Z

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/2011_CR-Z_-_Reclining_seats_finally.jpg
Reclining seat angles. Passenger seat is adjusted fully forward and laid back
to its max. Driver’s seat is adjusted fully back and laid back to its max.

An area where the 00 – 06 HI-I fell apart was the inability to recline the rear seats much beyond maybe 20 degrees at best. If you needed to sleep in the HI-I, you were quite literally screwed. The 2011 CR-Z cures that problem with seats that almost fully recline… finally :)

Good Luck

Wayne

Huh. My civic, a generation before the HCH-1, will recline the seats until they're on the rear seat cushion - nearly flat. I wonder why they designed that out of the next version, and then added it back in now. ??

Nice that the cargo cover is easy to remove, and has a place to ride along. Unlike some cars where it ends up living in the garage for years.

Hi Andrew:

The HI-I had no rear seats and the rear deck was high so it could cover the spare plus the IMA systems back there. The HI-II is fine as the seats fully recline… Even more so than the CR-Z I think :) The Seats in the HI-I simply had no room to recline even when you moved them fully forward as the rear deck halted the angle to maybe 20 or so degrees from Vertical at best.

And so true about that cargo cover being stored in the garage forever… I know lots of Prius drivers doing that ;) JP actually found the place for the Privacy Shade directly behind the front seats when the rear seat (it is not really a rear seat but separator or whatever we should call it???) is folded down to maximize the hatch accessible cargo space.

Good Luck

Wayne

:o I misread that as HCH instead of HI. Makes perfect sense now, especially with the overseas option of a rear seat for the CR-Z.

SAE mirror guidelines work well on freeways, but kind of suck in urban environments because they depend on your center mirror for distance viewing, and you can't see straight back any distance with the side mirrors. This is critical when pulling out of parking spots where your center mirror is blocked by the vehicle behind you.

I tried SAE for a few months, but since I do most of my driving in town and park on the street daily, I abandoned it. I did learn from the experience, and now leave my left mirror slightly outboard of where I used to, and my right mirror about halfway between "standard" and SAE. It still reduces my blind spots considerably from what I had before.

My dream car would automatically switch between SAE positioning at higher speeds and "standard" positioning at low speeds! Or at least offer an A/B switch for quick manual changes.

I'm a city dweller so I can relate. My left-side mirror is, probably, 15 degrees closer to the axis than SAE but my right is as recommended. I have had no problems but, again, perhaps it's the larger mirrors of the Insight that make it "easy."

Wayne, the cargo cover in the Insight 2 actually hides in the trunk beneath the floor and just above the spare when it's not needed. What does the CR-Z's spare tire compartment look like?

JP

Hi JP:

I never even opened it up (the spare tire recess under the rear deck). Sorry about that...

Wayne

Very interesting.

(and what's wrong with 'another NY trip'?) heehee

Wayne, what was the SoC after that 115mpg RT?

I'm a city dweller so I can relate. My left-side mirror is, probably, 15 degrees closer to the axis than SAE but my right is as recommended. I have had no problems but, again, perhaps it's the larger mirrors of the Insight that make it "easy."

Wayne, the cargo cover in the Insight 2 actually hides in the trunk beneath the floor and just above the spare when it's not needed. What does the CR-Z's spare tire compartment look like?

JP

It also hides in this same area in the Prius, in the little "magic" storage area. I always use mine, so it's hardly ever stored. The only hitch is you need to pull up the left side panel as well, and shift the jack rising arm out of the way. My wife, however, seems to have a hatred for the shade and never resets it back to closed.

Hi Karen:

Nothing wrong but it gets expensive ;)

Sean, started at 6 bars and finished up at 4 from the 100V pack.

Wayne

Think you could hit mid 80s without hitting the pack on that route?

Hi Sean:

100 + would be easy without hitting the pack in a competition based segment. Just like the Insight-I, pull her SoC down and then get serious would be the order of the day for a tank at 110 +. It was strange though. Not pulling any assist and LOD down in the mid 50’s range while Accelerating. Not at all what I would have expected yet the CR-Z w/ a stick would easily blow out the Prius-III, HCH-II and HI-II under a similar regiment. If only fifth and sixth gears were tall (1,800 R’s at 60 mph vs. 2,450) for the much higher steady state highway numbers :ccry:

I never really afforded myself the opportunity to HS P&G the little beauty on the big slab as G. Schmitz arrived about 45-minutes early this morning leaving the HS P&G testing unfinished.

Good Luck

Wayne

Interesting. I'm really curious to see what I could do with it on my route. I presume it would require something between my nuanced P&G and lean burn routine in the Insight and the all out P&G regimen in the Elantra.

Too bad there wasn't time to see if a clutch switch would work to suppress assist. I know they "broke" that in '05 for the old 5spd hybrids but who knows what they've programmed into the CR-Z.

Hi Sean:

You would not need a clutch swtich mod as you can control Assist by simply driving it. Best of the Honda IMA hybrids yet :)

Good Luck

Wayne

Perhaps so... but you know me. I'm all about the max mileage. ;)

Your 115mpg segment used some battery... and I'm guessing that wasn't from key starts?

Hi Sean:

It was the DRL's more than likely...

Good Luck

Wayne

Wayne, I had someone on InsightCentral.net ask me if there's a lean-burn capability in the CR-Z.

I don't even know what that is :-)

JP

Wayne mentioned that SHAM was at about 38 mph. Look back. H

I sincerely doubt the CR-Z has lean burn capability -- that requires a very expensive catalytic converter and is difficult to make clean enough to meet today's NOx emissions limits.

SHAM is a very interesting mechanism for increasing fuel economy... but it isn't lean burn.

Its not a lean-burn mode? Sounds lean to me. H

Hi Harold;

Sean is correct.

SAHM is unique to the HCH-II because while it is operating in the low cam mode (stage 1 of 3 in the 3-stage IMA-VTEC), it "Atkinsonizes" the ICE operation to almost run on fumes. That is why when in this mode we can crack into the 70+MPG at steady state.

SAHM is definitely not the classic "lean burn". If it was, then the HCH-II's Tier2/Bin2 rating would be almost impossible to achieve.

Cheers;

MSantos

Hi Harold:

SAHM is not leanburn, just a very fuel efficient area on the BMEP map that can be exploited through LOD and IGN timing. It is easy to mistake the two but they are two separate animals.

The CR-Z does not have leanburn but it sure could use it... AND a 25% taller final too :)

JP, that should help answer their question. Leanburn is running a super high A/F ratio (upwards of 23:1 and well beyond Stoich's 14.7:1). Great FE but high NOx and why the HI-I had a specialized cycling NOx CAT to put it into layman’s terms to correct this. Along with some precisely controlled combustion as well... The HCH-I (non PZEV variants) had leanburn as did the older CRX HF's as well and its like driving a diesel almost. Not nearly the power or torque available but you certainly received the FE increase :)

All said, if I were a single guy, I would much rather own the CR-Z than any hybrid on the planet. It is ultra attractive, really fun to drive and has most of the amenities I would like to have in a car. The Center Armrest would be something I would need… Its FE proves it to be in the same league as any hybrid or diesel on the market (North America only) for an all-highway drive. The HCH-II and Prius using basic to intermediate techniques and TDI’s when driven to advanced levels can beat it but not by much! And when pushed, it is the most fuel efficient hybrid, non-hybrid or diesel we can buy in North America today as demonstrated in its Comp level P&G RT segment.

Yet another story. I pulled into a McDonald’s in Prairie Du Chien, WI on Iowa/WI border (do not ask me to spell it correctly please ;)) and a biker came over to ask questions about the CR-Z. He was in his mid 30’s or thereabouts and said he had read some reviews that it was not sporty enough for a sports car or fuel efficient enough for a hybrid. He then added that it is just he and his wife and it has plenty of room for them.

I told him he would be making a great choice because for a sports car, it has the 70% of the performance for ½ to ¾ the price of most and what good is a 140 + mph car anyway? For a hybrid, it has 80 to 90% of the FE of the Prius while actually looking like something we would all desire to drive day in and day out vs. the vehicles we actually do actually drive on a daily basis. If it were not in the low 90’s at the time, I would have given him the tour but he was overheating and needed to get into some cool air quickly.

Good Luck

Wayne

I have to agree this car is targeted to the 18-25 year old segment of the population. But if you can get them in one of your cars early in life you have them as customers for years down the road. BTW that is one very good looking car.

The Eco Mode based steady state - Cc FE numbers are as follows:

•45 mph - 58 mpg
•50 mph - 53 mpg
•55 mph - 49 mpg
•60 mph - 46 mpg
•65 mph - 43 mpg
•70 mph - 38 mpg


This is a definite commuter car for those who have daily 40-50-60 drives each way to work.

Now if it had a trunk and I could fit one of my Chandlers in there I would seriously look at it as a replacement for my Volvo in three or four years. Because what ever I replace it with has to get 40+ mpg's at 65 mph.

Thanks for the clarification fellows. H

Hi Harold:

No problem. I see Sean and Manuel jumped on as well. With all the talk of the 06 - 10 HCH-II not having leanburn, at sometimes, it sure does act like it does ;)

Good Luck

Wayne

So I guess the ultimate question for me is what kind of FE can I expect as a conscious hybrid driver but not hypermiler.

To give you an idea I'm getting 72-78MPG in the summer in my HI-I and 60-64 in the winter. I gave up on FAS'ing and things like that a while ago, so this is all just me being aware and keeping an egg under my foot.

Also, any ideas on how this will handle in the winter? My HI-I is not very capable in the winter, and I'd really like to get something that can drive on some snowy roads on occasion since my commute is still 50 miles no matter what the weather is. Along those same lines, is the ground clearance any better on the CR-Z compared to the HI-I?

Thanks in advance for helping me out. With 172K on my HI-I it's starting to get a bit long in the tooth and it doesn't looking like the Mini One D is coming to the states any time soon.

Also, any ideas on how this will handle in the winter? My HI-I is not very capable in the winter, and I'd really like to get something that can drive on some snowy roads on occasion since my commute is still 50 miles no matter what the weather is. Along those same lines, is the ground clearance any better on the CR-Z compared to the HI-I?Like most cars, the Insight has six inches of ground clearance. With four snow tires (not all season) with good tread, I haven't had one issue up to a snow depth of six inches. That is unless you consider a 40mpg commute to be an issue.

I was driving past the local Honda dealership today and out of the corner of my eye I saw a CR-Z parked out front. I went up the road, and had to turn around and go back to take a look. There were actually 2 of them there, a silver one and a black one. Very attractive cars, which surprised me because whenever I saw a picture of one on the internet I thought the front end looked ugly. The black one was especially nice-looking. It was just a quick look, but judging by the sticker price (in the $23,000 range), they must have been the EX variant, the most expensive ones. The view out the rear has quite a blind spot, but I guess that's to be expected. I noticed that as soon as I left the lot, another fellow drove up specifically to take a look at the CR-Zs. If anything, they attract a lot of attention.

I was driving past the local Honda dealership today and out of the corner of my eye I saw a CR-Z parked out front. I went up the road, and had to turn around and go back to take a look. There were actually 2 of them there, a silver one and a black one. Very attractive cars, which surprised me because whenever I saw a picture of one on the internet I thought the front end looked ugly. The black one was especially nice-looking. It was just a quick look, but judging by the sticker price (in the $23,000 range), they must have been the EX variant, the most expensive ones. The view out the rear has quite a blind spot, but I guess that's to be expected. I noticed that as soon as I left the lot, another fellow drove up specifically to take a look at the CR-Zs. If anything, they attract a lot of attention.

You know what, I passed by a Honda dealership yesterday and they may have had a CR-Z sitting by the road too. My brain immediately thought Insight-II but I have to admit I was distracted by the Smart next to it. :p

Wayne,

Have you summarized this some place?

I saw 59mpg screen shot at the end of the longer run West, but never found the return run. What was the wind doing on that run?
Also, I may of missed a description of how you drove the majority of that 59 run? Tire pressure methods used. I think you said 60mph CC??

What the heck.... A/C lol

Hi Paul:

It was all summarized here. It was 59.3 (60 mpg actual) for the RT. 66.x out and 53.x back. Inbound, it was reasonably calm other than the fact I used A/C sporadically and had the terrible storm for over 100-miles.

All the Steady state numbers were done using CC. It is dumb driving but givers an idea as to what the thing is capable of on the open road. 60 psi as well.

Wayne

Wayne,

I wonder what that car would do if I was driving like my Fit? P&G w/ FAS 45 to 55 on Interstate and DWoB on rural + P&G w/ FAS and 60psi?
I can get 60 + like that
CC at 55mph I can get 45mpg. Use to get 50 with worn OEM Dunlaps
A/C lol
Sounds like same eng as mine, but with way better gears. I'm almost 3000rpms if I did 60
BTW You posted the FE in the GAS area.

PS Have you tested a 5 speed Fit yet?

Hi Paul:

You would be nearing the mid 60 mpg range.

No Fit for testing in the Chicago Press fleet unfortunately.

Wayne

Really too bad about the lousy gearing, I would have gone for one. I can easily get 55-58 mpg in the 5 speed Fit, and 62-65 mpg in the 2010 Prius and 70-72 in the Insight 1 . All being tank averages in normal driving in the summer in New England. Maybe Honda will wake up and produce an HF model again. I will give them 1.5 years to do so , that's when my Prius lease runs out, if not I keep the Prius.

I'm utterly blown away by the numbers Wayne was able to pull out of the Z. I've had mine for about two months now. So I'm still feeling the car out. I'm also an A/C and radio addict. Those excuses/disclaimers out of the way, I've only managed 48.2mpg as a full tank average. That is with taking advantage of everything I've been able to find out about hypermiling. Clearly I'm doing something very very wrong. :confused:

Hi Todd:

Congrats and you are doing everything right by blasting the EPA combined by some 41% :)

Wayne

Congrats and you are doing everything right by blasting the EPA combined by some 41% :)

But compared to your "normal driving" numbers I'm 50% off of what could be. Not to mention I'm lightyears behind your P&G numbers:eek:. I don't expect to match a master hypermiler right out of the gate, and without some serious training. But still, It seems like I must be leaving a lot on the table.

Don't be too hard on yourself -- it takes years to get to the top level of hypermiling prowess. Perhaps at some point you could arrange a clinic with one of our members?

Are there any clinics upcoming in the New England area in the near future? I would definitely be in. I seem to be hitting a plateau at about 150% EPA. This is pretty good considering the traffic situation I schlep through every day, but of course I want more!

CRT1, I recommend trying to hook up with Chris (MaxxMPG) -- he is in your area.

But compared to your "normal driving" numbers I'm 50% off of what could be. Not to mention I'm lightyears behind your P&G numbers:eek:. I don't expect to match a master hypermiler right out of the gate, and without some serious training. But still, It seems like I must be leaving a lot on the table.Almost none of us can even come close to what Wayne does. It's great that he shows us what's possible, but if you're not going to be happy until you approach his numbers, you're probably setting yourself up for disappointment.

Yup. Few people have the hypermiling skills and especially the COMMITMENT that Wayne has. When you are willing/able to do the same things he does, you will get the same results.
Until then................ yer doin' okay !

CRT1, I recommend trying to hook up with Chris (MaxxMPG) -- he is in your area.

Long Island Area = Boston Area?! Ah, how perception varies with location. ;)

Yup. Few people have the hypermiling skills and especially the COMMITMENT that Wayne has. When you are willing/able to do the same things he does, you will get the same results.
Until then................ yer doin' okay !

I am to addicted to A/C and my stereo to get the really insane number.

Long Island Area = Boston Area?! Ah, how perception varies with location. ;)

Let's put it this way. Compared to me... Chris is in the Boston Area. ;)

We have a few CR-Z's around this area - I would love to play with one. Tempted to 'shop around' and 'test drive' one from a dealer sometime :D

I am to addicted to A/C and my stereo to get the really insane number.Don't worry about the stereo. AC has a pretty significant impact on fuel economy, but stereo is practically nil unless it's cranked up and sucking 200W from your car's electrical system.

There are a few purists here who eschew their radio (probably more to limit distraction than to reduce energy consumption), but the savings are absolutely miniscule unless it takes you mind off the task. Enjoy your tunes.

Don't worry about the stereo. AC has a pretty significant impact on fuel economy, but stereo is practically nil unless it's cranked up and sucking 200W from your car's electrical system.

There are a few purists here who eschew their radio (probably more to limit distraction than to reduce energy consumption), but the savings are absolutely miniscule unless it takes you mind off the task. Enjoy your tunes.

I'm among those who don't use the radio. You're exactly right, it's about the distraction, not the power draw. If I would settle for "great" mileage I would use it. I love my music. I'm just too stubborn to settle for anything less than the best possible. :p

Yup , it's the distraction. But I would sometimes welcome music on long highway trips , something we don't do much of these days. But then , even at 55 mph, road noise in the Civic (and a weak factory stereo) takes a lot of joy out of it.
I get most of my music fix from the home theater system. Quiet,comfortable,no distractions.