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Not long after Gene Roddenberry died, Star Trek episodes suffered (my nickname Delta Flyer is the name of a "hot rod" shuttle on Star Trek: Voyager). I fear that when it's founder died, Honda Motor Co. started to lose it's way too.

Mr. Honda insisted that the Acura MDX not go into production unless it had better fuel economy than the BMX X5. Their entry into SUVs and esp. pickup trucks were delayed - fuel economy. Honda has the highest fleet mpg of any automaker. They made the CVCC engine in 1974 that ran so clean it would be a few years before catalytic converters were needed. Honda hopes to have the same magic on their clean diesel efforts.

I'm concerned about Honda becoming just another automaker. I hope their recent past is just honest miscalculations (Ridgeline, IMA can't EV....). Honda may be having problems, but I'd still be tickled pink if their management replaced GM management. I'd love Honda to see what they could do with a Two Mode hybrid.

Delta, I wouldn't get overly depressed about it.

Honda definitely has great stuff coming down the pipe but for now they continue to be busy broadening their IP porfolio - Event their shareholders are happy and it is not because of current world-wide profits, but rather the immensity of their new technology portfolio that has almost immediate application. Many analysts, even claim Honda is better positioned than any other car company on the planet to really turn a few heads in the upcoming future.

If you subscribe to their news and peek into their own internal releases you'll see that they are always (in typical Honda fashion) very quiet about it. It is no different now than it has been for the last 30 years. For most of us it may be a challenge to comprehend this quirky company but that is what defines it. Event though mr. Honda is gone, the original spirit is still very much alive and as busy as ever.

I would just suggest that like all good things, the better ones are worth waiting a little longer for. I defintely know they have some treats in store for sure. :D

Cheers;

MSantos

MSantos,

Thank you for your support on two forums. ;)

Got to take a break from those bashing Honda because they are....the competition.

Where can I read on some of the upcoming Honda stuff?

Delta, thank you for stepping in and helping chip away at their rather embarassing "bias-induced" ignorance. Also surprising is what they said about Wayne... talk about poison... Geesh.

Saddly, some of them don't even know when they are actually hurting their own cause. But that is a continuing story... I almost feel like starting my own Prius forum for "the open minded". ;)


Anyhow, onto better things: You can subscribe to Honda news at their global site: "http://world.honda.com"

Also, it also helps to have a professional contact with your regional Honda and to become an investor. ;)

Cheers;

MSantos

Saddly, some of them don't even know when they are actually hurting their own cause. But that is a continuing story... I almost feel like starting my own Prius forum for "the open minded". ;)I came so close to suggestion the South Park writers must have read their posts before they made the infamous "Smug Hybrid" episode. Sorry - Toyota is not going to singlehandely save the planet and neither is Honda or any other automaker.

Delta, thank you for stepping in and helping chip away at their rather embarassing "bias-induced" ignorance. Also surprising is what they said about Wayne... talk about poison... Geesh.It's gone from an intelligent discussion a senseless battle of egos. I'm amazed by the personal attacks on Wayne, and that individual is clueless as to how bad he looks to others. In general, it also amazed me that several times, MSantos and myself say you don't have to go as far as Wayne - you would even moderately speed and save some gas, yet it's ignored to bash hypermiling. Ironically, the Prius is perhaps the hypermiling vehicle of choice.

Sorry to vent some of my disappointment/frustration. I realize that it's just a few.

I just got done reading the thread you mentioned. WOW! It's amazing the lengths people will go to for ignoring good sense.

Investers maybe happy with Honda. Im NOT!!!

I think they are getting way to GMish, in size and tude. I think Mr. Honda is missed very much.

I gave up on Honda motorcycles years ago. Over all design and quality of production seemed to have taken a big hit.

The two Honda cars I own are not near the quality of my fathers 4th gen Accord or my mothers CRX Si.

I think Honda is getting way to big for there slacks. Im sure the cheap arse paint, fit and trim on my Honda cars is the result of money spent on jets and robots.

The two Honda cars I own are not near the quality of my fathers 4th gen Accord or my mothers CRX Si.




In all likelyhood your father's Accord may have been either a Japanese assembled unit or one in the best production run from a US plant.
To some it may not appear so, but on average, North American assembled units seem to have more issues that the units imported from Honda's assembly streams in Japan. This is no surprise to me and neither has been to long time Honda fans.

Even the Acura brand seems to suffer a little from this problem too. Honda is silent but aware of this and so are its dealerships. Not coincidentally, this type of problem is not limited to Honda either. That is primarily why, Honda appears to want all of its advanced platform vehicles to be produced in Japan first and it will resist any temptation of assembling them abroad.

Many times when they assemble them abroad they have to compromize in the parts department by procuring and using parts from local suppliers (ie: a minimal amount of domestic content). In doing so, they do expose themselves to issues that they cannot control as well and hence the lower initial quality and owner reported issues. I see it a little like a political and economical balancing act that foriegn automakes have to make.

I also know that Toyota agonizes over this type of problem. So much so that in typical Toyota fashion (at least in their home market) you cannot be a parts supplier to Toyota unless they are allowed to buy enough of the company to control the design and manufacturing process of the parts. This is what some analysts often call "adding a new partner to the very large Toyota family".

Anyway, I don't know if Honda can easily change much of the existing problems. While there is room for improvements in quality the fact remains that if you want to own the better Honda vehicles you'll make sure that they are assembled in Japan. In my case, I've always make that VIN check. If they are not, then I buy an extended warranty. I actually do that for Toyota vehicles too.

Cheers;

MSantos

Delta, I wouldn't get overly depressed about it.

Honda definitely has great stuff coming down the pipe but for now they continue to be busy broadening their IP porfolio - Event their shareholders are happy and it is not because of current world-wide profits, but rather the immensity of their new technology portfolio that has almost immediate application. Many analysts, even claim Honda is better positioned than any other car company on the planet to really turn a few heads in the upcoming future.

If you subscribe to their news and peek into their own internal releases you'll see that they are always (in typical Honda fashion) very quiet about it. It is no different now than it has been for the last 30 years. For most of us it may be a challenge to comprehend this quirky company but that is what defines it. Event though mr. Honda is gone, the original spirit is still very much alive and as busy as ever.

I would just suggest that like all good things, the better ones are worth waiting a little longer for. I defintely know they have some treats in store for sure. :D

Cheers;

MSantos

This article (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/in-the-news/t-totally-new-small-honda-hybrid-out-2009-or-2010-3237.html) suggests Honda is going to be back in the hybrid market in a major way.

Very encouraging.

Absolutely !!!

As far as I see it, they were never out of the hybrid market, instead they were just executing the plans they had annouced some time ago (even prior to the release of the HCH-2). For many consumers that just seems to take forever though, but still I suspect they will continue to be very disciplined and disregard that until "curtain time" comes. ;)
I guess, we just have to be patient with Honda for the 101th time.

Nevertheless, these are indeed interesting times and I am definitely looking forward to see them making a "few prints" in automotive history.

Cheers;

MSantos

In all likelyhood your father's Accord may have been either a Japanese assembled unit or one in the best production run from a US plant.
To some it may not appear so, but on average, North American assembled units seem to have more issues that the units imported from Honda's assembly streams in Japan. This is no surprise to me and neither has been to long time Honda fans.

Even the Acura brand seems to suffer a little from this problem too. Honda is silent but aware of this and so are its dealerships. Not coincidentally, this type of problem is not limited to Honda either. That is primarily why, Honda appears to want all of its advanced platform vehicles to be produced in Japan first and it will resist any temptation of assembling them abroad.

Many times when they assemble them abroad they have to compromize in the parts department by procuring and using parts from local suppliers (ie: a minimal amount of domestic content). In doing so, they do expose themselves to issues that they cannot control as well and hence the lower initial quality and owner reported issues. I see it a little like a political and economical balancing act that foriegn automakes have to make.

I also know that Toyota agonizes over this type of problem. So much so that in typical Toyota fashion (at least in their home market) you cannot be a parts supplier to Toyota unless they are allowed to buy enough of the company to control the design and manufacturing process of the parts. This is what some analysts often call "adding a new partner to the very large Toyota family".

Anyway, I don't know if Honda can easily change much of the existing problems. While there is room for improvements in quality the fact remains that if you want to own the better Honda vehicles you'll make sure that they are assembled in Japan. In my case, I've always make that VIN check. If they are not, then I buy an extended warranty. I actually do that for Toyota vehicles too.

Cheers;

MSantos

Both of my Honda's are American produced. There quality issues are not parts. But I feel labor related. Ive lost a lot of faith in the American work force over the years. Ive seen nothing to change that.

As folks look forward to Honda's great strides in design and engineering. And be it as good as it is. Honda needs to get the spit shine out and really knukle down. As much hope as many have in the diesel and hybrids. And as good as there fleet mpg is. Theres much to be done.

Accord:

Accord better be a all out slam dunk this next gen. Honda better get rid of all the squeaks and rattles. Our Accord doesn't rattle and I figure Wayne's doesn't either. But since buying ours Ive seen countless numbers of 6th and 7th gen Accords that rattle worse than any car Ive ever ridden in. If I had been in one of these rattle trap Accords before buying ours. I wouldn't have bought one. Honda needs to focus on Accord like never before. They are about to loose there bread and butter to Toyota in a big way. The high margin flagship needs to come in all flavors. From screaming mean v6 Coupe and Sedan to middle of the road trims. And not forget the economy minded. They need to bolster up IMA!!! And if they have any hope of selling me a hybrid. There going to have to put a MT tranny in it and trim it out right. Honda's idea of only selling hybrids in lux-o-boat trim has to go. If the Civic hybrid had been offered in more of a LX trim level. I think many more would be sold. There marketing dept. really needs to get in the street. Also the road noise has to go!!!! If Honda doesn't deal with this issue. I will never even think about buying one again.

Civic:

Its pretty much set in stone for this gen. A HCHII with a MT tranny and standard climate controls? I might buy one. Si/EX/LX/DX ,,, hit and miss quality over all. You either seem to get a good one ,,, or a bad one. Ive seen the good, bad and ugly thats been produced in Japan, Canada, USA and south of the boarder. Yes I have seen some South American Civic's. The Civic's share alot of issues common to the Accord in Quality. One that comes to mind is bad seat rails that allow the seat to rock or rattle. This is a design problem and Honda knows it. But haven't done anything about it. The R-18 is a sweet engine. But holding the low rpm economy mode is almost as hard as holding a HCH in its narrow EV mode.

Ridgeline:

WTF were they thinking? Its not a truck. Its basically a UTE. ( Aussy term ) Ute's have never done well in America. Maybe the Honda name will carry it. ( Sheep Syndrome? ) A real truck buyer wouldn't be caught dead in one. The bed is useless. The quad cab is useless and it looks like a shrunk Avalanche. My Ranger is a better truck!!! They are selling awful here.

Fit:

Should have been brought in as Civic wagon. The bread box Sicon is loosing its appeal real fast. Fit will go the same way. It will suffer something horrible under the new EPA testing. They could have atleast put a 1.5L R-series motor in it and tried for 1 mpg better than a Civic.

Pilot, CRV and Element:

Get rid of one of them Honda. CRV could be offered in the rough and ready trim of Element. Heck they could get rid of Ridgeline and beef up Pilot and have a better truck over all,, well sort of.

S2000:

Needs more lower end grunt! I think Mr. Honda would have loved this car seeing he always wanted to be a world class race car driver from the start. :)

Oddy:

It should come with a soccer mom sticker in the window and twice the insurance cost.


I hope I'm wrong:

I think Honda has lost its way. It has IMO kind of taken a dump like Wal-Mart did when Sam died. Greed has taken over and some of the basic principles have been set a side in lue of that greed. There over all fit and finish is no better than the ave. domestic car anymore. Sure they use soft and hard plastics where they need to be used and they have tactile feel of controls down pretty good. But the paint sucks and there over all panel alignments are worse than they have ever been. Honda still has issues with automatic transmissions. It seems to take them half of a generation to get them working right. And there 6MT's are a can of worms for the most part. I am soooo glad I didn't purchase a 6MT TL or Si like I wanted to in the beginning. I have no doubt that I would have gotten a 3rd gear grinder.

I go out to the shed and look at my 1969 Honda Mini Trail that I can still start. Put one of my grandchildren on and have a blast with. It has the simple little 50cc motor that made Honda famous and a semi automatic 3 speed tranny that cant be torn up. Heck the engine has never had the head off of it. The cam chain rattles in it. Yeah it smokes a bit. Its been abused so much it isn't funny. Its a real Honda. I see my cars as imposter's. Compared to it.

psy

ps. Mr Honda is missed in the Townsley home. And thought of a lot with a smile when the Mini Trail fires up. :)