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Alternate title - "A funny thing happened on the way to the chiropractor"

Having seen so many of the new vehicles recently at the New York International Auto Show, I never miss the chance to point out some of the newest to my wife when we are out driving somewhere. I pointed out the new Sonata and noted it was the only full size car available with a 35mpg highway rating, and it costs 2/3 as much as other full size sedans. Since my wife has a back injury, her first question was whether the seats would be ok for her. I had told her when I first sat in a Sonata in late March that they'd likely suit her well, and she said, "maybe I should drive one and see how it feels".

I knew that my local Hyundai dealer had two 6MT Sonatas on the lot, one silver and one black plum, as of late March. So that night, I check stock again and I see the silver one sold, and they still had the black plum. The next day, we head over to the chiropractor, then do a little geocaching, and then decide to stop off at the dealer. We drive into the lot and what is in front of the dealer's front doors but a black plum Sonata. I trot over and look inside - salesperson behind the wheel - and I see it's a stick. I point and tell my wife, "this is the one". The only 6MT on the lot, and it was parked right in front of the door, engine idling. They were going to move it into the showroom. Because the Sonata is selling so fast, they keep selling whatever they have on the floor, and this stick version was probably the least likely to sell.

So the salesman hears me say, "this is the one", and he asks me if we're interested. I said yes, we'd like to drive it. It'd be my wife's car, so she was the one behind the wheel. He took a copy of her license and we were off. The dash cluster was set on iFCD. I couldn't see much detail from the passenger seat, but I noticed as we drove along the expressway service road that a light touch on the throttle kept the iFCD pegged at 50mpg (the upper limit of the graph) in both 5th and 6th gears. This car has a lot of promise as a highway cruiser.

The seats seem perfect for her. And she also remarked that the seatbelts are more comfortable, the ride seemed very composed with less harshness than her other car, and the steering seemed lighter and more precise. I would chalk those last two up to the Sonata's lighter weight and stiffer chassis. We have been looking for an inexpensive car for a couple of years now - one that we can run up a zillion miles without having to wear out our daily drivers - cars we love but cannot replace because they ended production. So my idea was to get something comfortable, safe, fuel efficient, and reliable enough that we can use it as an interstate runabout. The list has changed over the years, and it all seemed to come to a single conclusion in the Sonata 6MT.

The EPA rating for the Sonata with a stick is 24 city and 35 highway. What sold me on it was seeing that iFCD pegged during gentle driving. My wife now wants a ScanGage so she will be able to see numbers over 50. Driving a car with an automatic, she hasn't been giving me the numbers from the gas receipts because she said the numbers never change. And she's right, for the most part. With a computer-controlled automatic, and driving the same car over the same routes using the same techniques results in fairly consistent mpg's. The only way to break through the everyday-mpg numbers is to throw the book at it. Now that she has a 6MT, she knows that she can make that car sing - or squawk or screech - depending on how she drives it. And she knows the basics and is a good student, too. This is gonna be a fun car.

When the car left the showroom, the aFCD read 17.9mpg. That would include hours of idling and short bursts around the lot, and maybe a couple of test drives. My wife took great pride in boosting that 17.9 average to 19.1 after driving only 2.4 miles on suburban sidestreets. I included the 19.1mpg number in the photo gallery because it's the last time we will ever see it. The next tank will be 50% higher if not more.

Interesting note: I read in the manual (I already downloaded the pdf so I can learn about all the features) that the aFCD resets itself whenever 1.6 gallons (6 liters) or more are added to the tank. So the aFCD on the new Sonata is a tank average and not a lifetime FE indicator.

The car has less than 100 miles as I write this, so it hasn't been broken in or set up yet. The oil cap and owners manual both recommend 5w20 motor oil, and I am snooping around Hyundai sites to see if 0w20 is acceptable. The tires likely need more air (placard is 33, sidewall is 44), and then it will really start to shine. For now, I am leaving it "dealer original" to see what the first couple of tanks read when set up completely stock. The wife is taking it home to NEPA and will be running it around the highways up there, seeing how well it handles the mountains. I can't wait to see what's in store as the engine loosens up.

If the Sonata delivers the highway fuel economy I think it will, it might just be the steal of the century. Our 6MT Sonata GLS has only two options - floor mats and iPod cable - and had a sticker total of a tick over $20k. Here are some of the standard features:
- 6 speaker AM/FM/XM/CD radio, with bluetooth and USB and iPod connections.
- Steering wheel controls for radio, bluetooth and cruise control.
- Power windows, power locks (with remote keyless entry) and power heated mirrors.
- Air conditioning with air filtration.
- Four wheel disc brakes with ABS with EBD & brake assist, traction control, and stability control.
- Six airbags, active front head restraints and seatbelt pretensioners.
- Tilt and telescoping steering wheel.
- Advanced trip computer (with iFCD and aFCD) and Eco indicator light.
- Split folding rear seats. Trunk has valet switch to secure luggage compartment contents.

For the price, the content level is impressive. And it's a truly modern full size car, with over 120 cubic feet of passenger and luggage space in a light weight (about 3150 pounds) aerodynamic body shell, and an EPA of 24/35. Hyundai just broke another all time sales record for this past April, so it seems that many buyers agree.

Karen takes delivery of her new mpg machine

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/651/medium/Keys.jpg


An inviting modern interior places all controls in easy reach. Ride is quiet and well isolated.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/651/medium/ReadyToRoll.jpg

More pictures to follow below.

Some photos...

Sticker - Amazing content, with a sticker price typically found on compact cars...

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/651/medium/StickerEdited.jpg


Hyundai "Fluidic Sculpture" surfacing captures the setting sun

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/651/medium/exterior.jpg


A rare sight in a full size sedan. And the shifter feels comfortable, with good precision for a front driver. To shift to reverse, you pull the ring under the shift knob upward and then the lever moves to the left and forward.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/651/medium/ShiftPattern.jpg


Front seat has ample room and a nice two-tone color that minimizes glare while lighter "camel" accents keep the interior bright.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/651/medium/FrontSeat.jpg


Rear seat has room for three adults, and split folding seatbacks. The fold down armrest has a pair of cupholders.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/651/RearSeat.jpg


Lots of storage! Top left and bottom left show the two-level center armrest storage. Top right shows two large cup holders. There are also water-bottle holders in each lower door panel. Lower right - the glove box is a nice size. And it is easily removed to change the cabin air filter.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/651/medium/Storage.jpg

Some of the standard features on the Sonata GLS

2.4L GDI engine with 198hp

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/651/medium/Engine.jpg


Power windows, power door locks with remote keyless entry, power mirrors.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/651/medium/windowsmirrorslocks.jpg


The power mirrors are heated - a blessing to those who live in the frozen north.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/651/HeatedMirrors.jpg


USB and 3.5mm auxiliary inputs for the audio system support a wide range of digital audio devices.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/651/medium/RadioAux.jpg


Standard XM radio. The roof mounted antenna is shaped to minimize drag. In this photo, you can see how Hyundai mixes up "Black Plum" paint with a blend of red and blue flakes within the black paint.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/651/medium/Sharkfin.jpg

Over 16 cubic feet of trunk space. The floor is level and there are no sharp edges exposed.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/651/medium/Trunkinside.jpg

The trunk lid has a plastic handle to pull the trunk lid closed. Also note the valet switch on the latch that disables the trunk release on the dash for those times when the valet key will be used to secure the luggage compartment contents.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/651/medium/Trunklid.jpg

Wow!! That's quite an addition, Chris!! :woot:

So... when will we see some testing numbers from you? ;)

Who does the Accent belong to?

I was wondering the same thing Sean ;). I think it's funny here in the south that while attending a mother's/father's day thing we had a Sorento, 2 Sedona's, and the other 'S' named cuteute sitting in the parking spots. If Hyundai doesn't get a swollen head in the next few years with price increases (thinking they're the next honda), they can only get better.

Wow!! That's quite an addition, Chris!! :woot:

So... when will we see some testing numbers from you? ;)

Who does the Accent belong to?

I will be able to get some test numbers when the newness wears off a bit and I can get the keys again. :) Since it will be her daily driver, she will be driving for the next two weeks to refine her techniques. I am more interested in seeing what she can accomplish with it than what I can, because her driving is almost all highway, and the car was chosen for its highway FE potential.

I drove it a mile or two around local streets here, and the engine has plenty of power - easy to upshift well before the upshift indicator lights on the dash. The car is brand new so the clutch is still sorta grippy - challenging to get a really smooth launch. Every MT car I ever drove was well worn and driving with a factory fresh clutch required a gentler foot.

The Accent belongs to the landlady. It's an SE version with ABS and 4AT. So far it has about 1500 miles (yes, less than 2k miles on it) in two years. It's the classic seasoned-citizen-owned "driven once a week" car.

Trip computer screens available are shown below. Scrolling and resetting are controlled by two buttons on the steering wheel.



Trip "A" and Trip "B"

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/651/medium/Cluster_trip.jpg


Elapsed time

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/651/medium/Cluster_ET.jpg


Average MPH

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/651/medium/Cluster_aMPH.jpg


Distance to Empty. The tank is 18.5 gallons.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/651/medium/Cluster_DTE.jpg


Average fuel economy display - reads 0 to 99.9mpg.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/651/medium/Cluster_aFCD.jpg


Instant fuel economy display - a bar graph showing 0 to 50. The goal is to keep it pegged at 50. :)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/651/medium/Cluster_iFCD.jpg

Nice! I see the odometer still doesn't read tenths... That's the reason I've never reset one of my trip odometers (since I bought the car). That way I can always see what that tenth of a mile is.

The Insight is the same way but I've no way of knowing what the tenths are there because I didn't buy it new. :o

FE update. Karen left for NEPA this morning, leaving from Long Island. She called me from the Cross Island Parkway to tell me the XM radio popped on (I activated it last night and refreshed the radio before she left). And she said the aFCD is at 31.4 and traffic was heavy but moving. Typical after-the-rush morning drive in the NYC suburbs. I was on the phone with her for five minutes. She loves the voice activated Bluetooth wireless in the Sonata - sound quality is excellent. In those five minutes, she was updating the numbers on the aFCD. 31.6. Then a minute later, 32.2. She was obviously up to speed and in top gear at that point, as the average was increasing so fast she couldn't keep up. When we ended the call as she was crossing the Throgs Neck bridge, the aFCD was at 33.0 even. I suggested that as she reaches the flatter terrain of mid NJ, she should switch to iFCD and see if she can keep it pegged at 50+ at speeds of 55 and below. Then slowly increase speed (it's 65 PSL in that area) to see if it will hold onto 50+mpg at 60 or even 65mph. I suspect it will keep the meter pegged at 55 but will start to drop at speeds increase.
I told her to take mental notes during the trip and then fill me in later. It's a brand new engine - still tight - and the tires are likely at placard pressure, if that. But it will give us a baseline of what the Sonata MT can achieve by anyone who buys one off the lot and then drives like they have a squad car on their tail.

Next FE update. Karen called from I-80 in New Jersey. We had some fun with the iFCD. I checked the weather for the area and the winds were calm and temp is 57F. On level ground on I-80, we got some numbers. Trip distance to this point was 60 miles. Tach numbers are guesstimates - the needle is "just above, on, or just below" the "2", but not quite 1750 or 2250rpm.

55mph - tach 1900rpm - iFCD stays pegged at 50+mpg
60mph - tach 2000rpm - iFCD stays pegged at 50+mpg
65mph - tach 2100rpm - iFCD stays pegged at 50+mpg but requires delicate throttle action.

The aFCD between Fairfield and Morristown NJ increased from 35.5 to 37.1 - still increasing. I laughed and told her she was already beating the hell out of the EPA, on an average FE display that included some slow & spotty traffic through the city. She said she's still "getting used to the car" and that it can do much better once she nails down the details.

She noted that it moves a bit more in crosswinds compared to the Maxx. You feel the car move laterally due to traffic side draft (euphemism for speeding trucks) or when driving past a clearing between clumps of trees in the median. She also said the car really glides. Compared to the Maxx, the car wants to keep rolling when you back off the accelerator. That will take some adjustment for her because she will be able to glide much farther when approaching turns or intersections.

She is driving at roughly 60mph (PSL is 65) and might be able to get back down to 55mph if traffic eases a bit. The next challenge will be the 1800 foot climb in PA, near the Camelback ski resort. I want to see if the Sonata climbs well without knocking too much off the trip average FE. Stay tuned for the next report.

Hot Dawg! That's some great stuff! My car will only hold 45 mpg at those speeds, and it's old, small, noisy, outdated, underpowered, etc. ;)

Edit: My civic is rated the same 35 mpg highway (adjusted) as this car.

We won't know until the first couple of tanks of Hyundai calibrated the FCDs for accuracy or optimism. If they're accurate, the car is on target to exceed my expectations.

I want to see if it climbs hills without drinking too heavily, and I want to take it on a long trip in a couple of weeks to see if adding people and cargo adversely affects the baseline mpg numbers. The 2.4L GDI seems so overpowered (Karen didn't believe it was a 4 cylinder - she was insisting it was a V6), and the CVVT and high compression mean the engine shouldn't need to work too hard to keep up.

Next update:

- I asked if there was anything she didn't like so far. She said so far nothing to gripe about. One thing she mentioned is that the front cup holder is positioned where a large soda will get in the way of shifts to 2/4/6 and also the button on the e-brake handle. The workaround is to put large soda cups in cup holder just behind, and use the front for soda cans or for smaller cups.

- She said the fuel cut is there but not too aggressive. By that she means that the car will maintain speed in fuel cut going down long grades, but will lose speed on shallower grades. She said she'd like to be able to glide a bit more on those shallow grades without having to shift out of gear. I said that will happen if we use synthetic oil to reduce engine friction, and air up the tires.

- On I-80 in Pennsylvania, she was at 38.0mpg per aFCD at the start of the climb up the mountain. At the top (1800-1900 feet straight up over about five miles), the aFCD was down to 36.8 and was on the way back up as the road leveled off again. What impressed her most - the car climbed the mountain in 6th gear with no sign of strain. In her Daytona (2.5L 150hp turbo with 5MT), she had to shift from 5 to 4 to climb the hill. In 5th, she'd have to bury the pedal and that car would still amble up the hill with the turbo whistling like a tea kettle. The Sonata's 2.4L engine has so much power to spare that it climbs the same mountain in top gear, at 60mph and 2000 on the tach, without strain (engine temp steady, light throttle, roughly 25+mpg seen on the iFCD during the climb).

She said it's the first MT car she's driven that was able to climb the mountain in top gear without any drama or downshifting. And considering that it's a 6 speed with an economy overdrive, that is even more astounding.

At about 130 miles travelled, the fuel gage is still well over 3/4, and I would bet that our "full tank" the dealer gave us wasn't really "full" either.

Judging from her eager reporting and reviewing notes here, I would say we have a very satisfied new vehicle owner.

And with a 20k price tag??? Yeesh... how I wish my wife could drive a stick ;).

Wow. That leaves my Elantra in the dust... though it shares the affinity for gliding. :)

Sean, she just called me from her dad's house - showing off the Bluetooth with voice recognition. I read your post above and noted your Elantra has an average FE of 50.2 over the last six months and that those numbers should be her goal. :)

It's too soon to tell exactly what she can get from the new Sonata, but we agreed that it's best to start out with everything factory and explore the capabilities and limitations and then make incremental changes to find out what works and what doesn't work so well. What I am liking so far is that she has demonstrated that anyone can hypermile in a 2011 Sonata MT as long as they can drive a stick and employ the simplest hypermiling principles. Once she gets used to the car and we start to tweak it a bit, I think there will be no stopping it. To get to the next level, she wants to get a ScanGage. I am a blessed man. My wife wants a ScanGage and wants to learn how to use it. :D

One other thing I thought of: A Chicago to NY on one tank would require an average of 48mpg. A brand new Sonata with less than 100 miles on the clock, and stock tire pressure, and a driver who hasn't yet fully refined the skill set for wringing out the true capabilities, is already around 38mpg average. And that's with some traffic and a mile of around town to get to the highway. And no FAS and no pulse and glide. If the aFCD is accurate, this car would be able to do a Chicago to NY run on a single tank without breaking a sweat.

Hi Chris:

___She is doing fantastic!

___I should have asked as it is one of our primary concerns with a new non-hybrid vehicle... Does the aFCD increment up during a FAS or does it lock in and stick. You wife can try this near home by resetting the aFCD, driving about a mile and then FAS and watch the aFCD. Sometimes they will not increment up during the FAS until the engine is brought back online and you will see the aFCD update with a jump but it will give me an idea. Some will not register at all but it would be nice to know up front.

___Dan B. asked again when I want to take the car. For a local drive, we could possibly take one out as early as next week, a drive to Detroit to take it back to their Press fleet can come at any time and a Chicago to NY drive can be scheduled for Mid June or thereabouts.

___And of course we will be shooting for a wee bit higher than 50 mpg for that Chicago to NY drive :D

___Now check the news in a few minutes for what the 11 Sonata achieved today. Your wife will be extremely pleased ;)

___Thanks in advance

___Wayne

Hi Chris:

___She is doing fantastci!

___I should have asked as it is one of our primary concerns with a new non-hybrid vehicle... Does the aFCD increment up during a FAS or does it lock in and stick. You wife can try this near home by resetting the aFCD, driving about a mile and then FAS and watch the aFCD. Sometimes they will not increment up during the FAS until the engine is brought back online and you will see the aFCD update with a jump but it will give me an idea. Some will not register at all but it would be nice to know up front.

___Dan B. asked again when I want to take the car. For a local drive, we could possibly take one out as early as next week, a drive to Detroit to take it back to their Press fleet can come at any time and a Chicago to NY drive can be scheduled for Mid June or thereabouts.

___And of course we will be shooting for a wee bit higher than 50 mpg for that Chicago to NY drive :D

___Now check the news in a few minutes for what the 11 Sonata achieved today. Your wife will be extremely pleased ;)

___Thanks in advance

___Wayne

Wayne,
Karen and I were on the phone for a while after she arrived up there earlier today. During the chat, we talked about FAS as a way to keep stop and go traffic from causing the tank average to "tank". When I drove the car last night, she was with me, and I didn't want to try to FAS and bump start because that brand new clutch was tough to modulate for a smooth engagement - especially with my size 14 feet. :) She has cut the engine on the Chevy only after the car is lined up where she wants it to go, and when she will be coasting to a stop. The GM EPS is so stiff during engine-off that she is concerned about needing upper body strength to steer if the EPS gets too stiff when the ICE is cut. Also, in the mountains, the daytime sees other cars on the roads, and nighttime brings out the deer, bears, foxes, skunks, and other suicidal mammals. Nevertheless, I let her know the request and I will see if she can find a suitable safe location to perform the test, and if she feels confident doing so, I will report the results.

I am proud of her accomplishment so far, and her willingness to work to improve the techniques to bring the new Sonata up well over EPA and possibly into the 40s. She is already saying she may want to press up the tires to improve the glides. We created a monster. :D

For the 2011 Sonata, spec'd to have an 18.5 gallon tank, a kilotank needs only a 54mpg average. Although that would take some advanced techniques, it certainly sounds possible to me, even though we've only owned the car for a little over 24 hours so far.

DO WANT! This may replace our/my Elantra. Nice, another Geocacher as well! :D

Hi everyone,

Figured it was about time to make my own account.

:)

Welcome, Karen! (I'm assuming it's you) That's a GREAT new car you've got.

Thanks!

yep, it's me, Karen. :) I love the Sonata!

I have to get my profile all done up. ;)

Nice to meet you!

Wanna trade for my Elantra? ;)

Buhahahaha

sorry!

Buhahahaha

sorry!

I figured as much. :D

Sounds like you are having a lot of fun with your new vehicle -- and you should! I'm really impressed with the apparent cruising efficiency. With a few techniques you should easily knock out some really fantastic numbers for a car that large. :flag:

Hi Chris:

___I should have asked as it is one of our primary concerns with a new non-hybrid vehicle... Does the aFCD increment up during a FAS or does it lock in and stick. You wife can try this near home by resetting the aFCD, driving about a mile and then FAS and watch the aFCD. Sometimes they will not increment up during the FAS until the engine is brought back online and you will see the aFCD update with a jump but it will give me an idea. Some will not register at all but it would be nice to know up front.

___Thanks in advance

___Wayne

Wayne,

Karen tried a FAS and wrote me to say that the numbers were all wonky and were down by 5 and the popped back up. That confused the heck out of me. Well, it turns out that she was looking at iFCD, which moves constantly until speed/tps settles into a groove. I said the one to watch is aFCD. And so she is going to head out again shortly and try it out. She found a stretch of road where she feels comfortable in a FAS - from about 35-40mph coasting down over about half a mile.

She is going to report the results herself when she returns. She joined earlier today (as KittyBoodles) to share some more of her experiences with this car as well as past vehicles.

Another perk for the Sonata - she said it is very easy to steer in a FAS, although it naturally takes more effort at lower speeds. Sounds like the Hyundai EPS is well calibrated for our needs. :)

Okay here goes -

To understand a bit better my driving experience so far and ending up with the 2011 Sonata, I want to explain a bit more about my driving experience in the past. Please forgive me if it’s a bit long.

My first car

My first car was a brown 1975 Mercury Comet. It had no rear floors and it was certainly not a “looker”, but it was mechanically sound and actually was fun to drive. I learned a lot of ‘silly’ things from that car, such as don’t ever use Armor All on vinyl bench seats unless you want to slide over into the passenger seat. :D Friends in the rear had to be careful getting in or out because there was nothing under the carpet – the floor had rusted away. It was also fun back there when I had to drive through the coastal Long Island “puddles” (think small lakes when flooding happens) and you’d wish you were wearing hip waders.

Although it was a good car, I wanted a Mustang and I wanted a stick shift. So I saved and saved and found in the local paper a 77 Mustang 4 speed manual for sale out on the Island for $500.00 and I made the call. The young woman was selling it because she wanted a new car, & we ended up speaking for about 30 minutes… although she’d had several calls about it, and even despite the fact that I admitted I’d never driven stick (but would learn!) she promised it to me first. My parents agreed to take me to see it, and of course, my dad would check it out to see if it was a good buy.

My first lessons in “hypermiling”

As we were driving over to check it out, cash in hand, dad started to explain the basics of manually shifting a car, and why you should be in one gear versus another. Thinking back, this is where my first lessons in hypermiling really took root, even though the term wasn’t around at the time. I was old enough to remember sitting in our family cars to go get gas when there were long lines on alternate days, and my dad (at that time, an oil burner mechanic) drove all sorts of trucks, cars and vehicles. As a family, we also took several trips per year from Long Island to NEPA. Every long weekend off school and every summer we’d pack up the family station wagon – the FO D (the chrome “R” was missing from the tailgate, so to us it was the FOD) station wagon and off we’d go, 3 kids, 1 cat and various other critters and baggage, loaded to the gills. Now, this was before route 80 was even built so a 2 and a half hour trip today used to take nearly 6 hours back then. My mom always drove the speed limit and coasted down the hills and mountains, and using momentum to get back up the other side. We understood it was “to save gas” but did not understand WHY (at the time) driving that way saved gas but it makes perfect sense now.

Back to the Mustang; once the Mustang checked out and the bill of sale signed, the woman explained to me how to get it into first gear as it was extremely tricky.
Dad took over the driver’s seat and with mom following; off we went to Jones Beach to find a big parking lot for me to practice. After what was probably 20 minutes of me stalling the car, the technique finally ‘clicked’ in my head and just like that, I was on my way. The whole time I drove that car I only ever stalled it one other time, months later, at a red light up hill. oops! The coolest thing about the Mustang was its after-market sunroof. It sat below the roofline and water would pool up, and then leak on the right side. So if I had a passenger, and made a left turn – whoosh, they’d get soaked. If I liked my passenger, they were given a cup to catch the water. If they were annoying or did not pitch in for gas money, the cup was mysteriously lost. ;)

At this time in my life, even though I was still in school and working several jobs, I was living at home and all my car expenses were my own – meaning, I had to pay for insurance and gas. There were times that digging under the seats and picking up change in parking lots was common to come up with enough to pay for a full gallon of gas, so I was always very conscious of how much gas I had and how far I had to go. Even back then in the 80’s I had learned how and where to cut off the engine so that I could coast down the block, up the ramp and end up right next to the fuel pump. Driving home, I knew where to shut off the engine so that I could end up exactly in front of the house to park. Even though I was not actually keeping track of MPG and such, it was more a matter of saving as much gas as I could because I had to make it to the next paycheck.

Finally as with all cars, the Mustang needed more work than was practicable. We’d replaced the engine because even filling the crankcase with straight 50w truck oil wasn’t cutting it, and it’s oil consumption was phenomenal, (in the hatch there was always a case of oil and every so 100 miles or so you had to add a quart.) Other things needed to be replaced, so eventually I sold it & bought my first new car, an ’89 automatic Daytona ES. That was my baby for several years.

Other Cars

Fast forward several cars later – (a couple of caravans, a Dodge Neon, Saturn Vue and Lebaron convertibles) and Chris found and bought for me a 1990 Daytona ES Turbo manual transmission. Whoohoo! A Daytona and stick shift, I was in Heaven. The only problem was that it had a High Performance clutch package. Because I have a very bad back with left leg nerve damage, I found that it was very hard to press the stiff clutch pedal, especially all the way to the floor. A transmission specialist adjusted the clutch so that it would ‘grab’ at about half-way so that was a big help.

Replacing it with a softer / easier-to-push clutch was out of the question, not because of expense but because the turbo engines were known to burn up the stock clutch. With a heavy heart I decided to sell the car and waited until I found someone who would love it as much as I did and who would take care of it, not beat the heck out of it. It went to a good home.

In the meantime, I also have the Mailbu Maxx. This is the car I want to be buried in, and love dearly, but I find I am putting a lot of miles on it because it’s the better car for my back. This is critical for any drive over a few minutes. As a quick example, Chris had a Saturn, and it was unbearable to sit in for me. Years back while the Neon was in for a new timing belt, a Ford Focus was my rental, and those seats nearly killed me too.

At couple of years ago, Chris got involved more with the CleanMPG & started to show me more hypermiling techniques to keep the Maxx up there over it’s EPA. The sad thing about it is that because it’s computer controlled, once I got it up to it’s highest point there was nothing else I could do to keep it there… On to the Sonata…

2011 Sonata

Okay, so now to keep down the miles on the Maxx, we spoke about another car finally deciding to try out the 2011 Sonata. A test drive showed me that the seats are incredibly comfortable, even in the base model without the “lumbar support” and no power seats. This alone is a major plus, as I find that I am uncomfortable in 98% of the cars out there. Another worry for me was the clutch because of my back and left leg weakness and experience in the other two stick cars, the 4MT Mustang and the 5MT Daytona. The real difference seems to be the adapting to the fluid clutch instead of the cable used in the older cars – it feels different.

A good example here is that the Mustang’s transmission was so odd that you had to know the ‘trick’ to get it into and out of first gear, unless you knew the trick, you’d bump and lurch it. Downshifting was also out. Something was not right with it, and if you tried to downshift, you’d hear this awful groaning and clacking noise as it tried to do what you asked of it, so the only way to keep the transmission going was to shift into neutral and use the brakes. Keep in mind, this was not the fault of the driver, no matter how experienced they were in MT’s but it was an issue with the car. The Daytona ES Turbo you could downshift in – and I did because that engine would only drink high octane gas. Anything lower than premium and the engine had absolutely no power at all.

When I did the test drive in the 2011 Sonata one of the first things I noticed with the clutch was that it was very easy to press on. Newer car, new clutch, and not the older cable types I was used to. Whoo hoo! From here on, I’ll just list what I think of the 2011 Sonata, as Chris has already given you the preliminary FE numbers that I was calling in from the road yesterday.

Transmission and Engine Notes:

- Super easy to use the clutch. 1st gear is a little ‘fast’, meaning you aren’t in it long at all, just get it moving and then 2nd gear is quick to get to. The feel of the clutch is ‘quick’ and to me, it’s harder to feel and – because the engine is so quiet - it’s harder to hear the engine to judge when it wants to go to the next gear up. In the Mustang and Daytona it was easier to feel the clutch catch and hear the engine when it was ready. All stick shift cars have their little nuances, and are all a little bit different, so once you feel where it’s happy you are good to go.

- In city traffic, where you are creeping, 2nd gear is perfect for those longer, slower creep-along times, and it does not chug at you when you get really slow.

- Climbing the long graded mountains in 6th was nice, the engine / car did not lug. This impressed me so much that it surprised me. I kept waiting for it to show me (there is an indicator with up and down arrows on the right side inside the fuel circle where it tells you what gear you are in and if you need to go up or down one) and I kept waiting for it to ‘tell me’ (by feel) if it needed to go to 5th and it never happened.

- Climbing the “roller coaster” hills on the back roads here, it is very happy in 5th gear to stay at about 40-50 mph.


Interior Notes:

- Everything is very easy to reach, all switches, knobs, etc are right there, controls are easy to use and very intuitive. Unless you drop something on the passenger side floor. If you are taller than me or don’t have a bad back you could probably reach something fair sized unless it’s a paper or pencil you won’t reach them.

- The front cup holder is not good for a large size cup, it knocks into the shifter when you are in the even gears, and hand brake operation is a bit tricky. Solution is to keep the bigger cups in the rear holder.

- The interior night-time lighting is awesome and very cool, everything is lit well.

- The area where the ipod and cell phone charger is well placed and well thought out, there is enough room for a cell phone that is plugged in to be charged, and will also fit an I-pod and/or blackberry and so on. Things don’t slip out or slide off to the sides – and there is no need to sacrifice a cup holder for the cell phone or other stuff.

- The compartment behind the shifter (the armrest area) is a little far back to my elbow, but I sit more forward in this car because I have shorter legs and don’t want to have to stretch for the clutch. This means that if you have longer legs you will be able to sit back further and be able to access that double storage area easier. It’s also very deep to put more stuff in, and is in two parts so it’s not just one deep dark pit where you would lose everything. If it was an automatic, I’d sit 1 or 2 seat clicks further back and would have no problem accessing that area.

- LOVE LOVE LOVE the bottle holder in the front doors. After the large cup trial, I can see why they put this area in for water or small soda bottles. Those areas are not for cans or other type of cups though, there is not enough to hold those.

- The hazard light switch is very easy to see and get to. In PA on these roads it is NOT uncommon to have to get those on in a hurry to alert drivers behind you that you are slowing down (especially with a MT where you don’t use the brakes) or stopped because someone ahead of you is having an issue. On roads with steep grades and winding turns, coming up to an accident or animal strike, or suburban/urban visitors stopping in the road to “see the pretty deer”, makes warning upcoming cars a priority.

- I wish it had a compass in the mirror, Onstar and Remote Start. (but the RS can be put in)

- Love the heated mirrors and they have great visibility as well.

- Fantastic visibility to the front, sides and rear! The pillars are not in the way.

- Love the Auto-Up power driver window!

- Interesting trunk locking with the valet key you can secure the whole trunk.

Exterior Notes:

- I love the plum color and the styling. It’s snazzy and I got a lot of looks on the road yesterday with people staring at the car. Personally I don’t like cars that look like every other car out there. I’m prefer unique looking cars, and this is one of them.

- Love the one piece XM antenna. My Malibu Maxx has a two piece and I’ve almost lost the top piece more times than I can count. I have to super glue that puppy 1 time per year to get it to stay on.


- The 'chin' is low enough to scrape those curb stops in parking lots, so be aware of that. (and no, I didn't damage the car or hit one, I parked and got out and looked.



Other Notes:

- Road noise – when you have the windows up and low radio and/or low fan on for air circulation, the car is very quiet.

- Steering is very easy, and ‘tight’ but it’s not hard to steer. It’s very positive and there is no real ‘wiggle room’ when you are going straight on level roads. It’s easy to steer one handed (especially when having to shift) and does not pull on your middle back… meaning… the steering is low effort at all speeds.

- Wow – wow – wow, the turning radius is tight!

- When driving, it feels very ‘sure on it’s feet’. It does not ‘skitter’ and does not ‘bounce’. It’s very solid and positive.

- When going over bumps, you can feel feedback in the wheel, and your body feels and hears the bumps but it does not travel through the seat to your rear… You are aware of bumps but the harshness doesn’t reach your body. This is a plus for people with back injuries or other disablities.


Hypermiling in it:

Honestly I don’t see how anyone who is not using more than the very basic techniques would be able to get to and maintain the numbers that Chris recorded as I called them in yesterday.

The Instant meter reads a max of 50 (I wish it went up to 99) and my goal on accelerating yesterday was to not let it drop below 25 at all. It will drop quick if you get on the gas so if you use a very light foot on the throttle you should do fine. At 50 to 55 mph it was easy for me to peg and maintain the number at 50. You need a lighter touch when gong 60 or over to keep that. (I want a scan gage!)

- I wish you could have two “favorites” on the middle gage, to toggle between Instant and Average would be great without having to scroll through the other trip OD and so on.

It holds speed very well on long downhills, I want to eventually try it with more tire pressure to see if I can get a better roll.

The accelerator is very touchy and responsive so people who have a lead foot will kill the EPA numbers very easily, something to keep in mind with this car, lighter touch is better.

My personal goal yesterday was to go from the low 17 when I drove it off the lot to about 40mpg before I got to the Delaware Water Gap bridge, but my goal was shot by about 2 mpg because of a 3 vehicle crash and an unexpected total road closure so I had to go from a dead stop on route 80 up a 2 mile hill before I could pulse and glide the rest of the way to the DWG. (65-45 MPH)

If I really pushed it, and cut the engine downhill, I think I would have easily hit 40 or maybe more. But I did not do that, and still I got close. Someone more experienced and with more air in the tires could have done it with no problem. As we’ve said, we will be leaving the car at factory specs for a couple of tanks before we start adjusting things, so I don’t think I did all that bad for the traffic I was in and for the first time driving it.

If anyone has any questions or wants to know something specific, please let me know and I’ll try my best to help or answer anything you want to know.

I hope I didn’t bore anyone, and hope that this was somewhat interesting for you all.

Karen

Hi, Karen -- does it go easily into 5th or 6th for bump start when in a FAS? My Elantra does not -- I have to pull it slightly toward 4th to get the synchros to spin a bit first, then it drops straight into 5th.

Sean, she's heading over to her dad's house at this time for some tweaks on his new netbook. Along the way, she is going to try the FAS with the aFCD displayed to answer Wayne's question about whether the display updates during an FAS or if it locks in place and changes (or remains the same) upon restart.

So far, the couple of times she has tried FAS, she has restarted with the key. With the new clutch, she is uncertain about the smoothness of a bump start. With her back injury, she does not want the jolt of an abrupt bump start if she doesn't get the clutch engagement just right. As the car breaks in and she gets the clutch modulation nailed down, she will probably want to give it a try.

So far, her perception of a bump start is the old push start on MT cars, where the car is placed in first gear and you pop the clutch to get it started and you get jostled a bit. I described the quick stab of the clutch, then a rev match and smooth take off in the proper gear, and I think she might eventually want to experiment. But I think the trial bump start may be something that happens after some more miles and greater familiarity with the car.

Sounds good, Chris. Let her know that several of us here have manage to pull off multiple clutch starts without our passengers noticing anything out of the ordinary. ;)

Wayne,

Karen tried a FAS and wrote me to say that the numbers were all wonky and were down by 5 and the popped back up. That confused the heck out of me. Well, it turns out that she was looking at iFCD, which moves constantly until speed/tps settles into a groove. I said the one to watch is aFCD. And so she is going to head out again shortly and try it out. She found a stretch of road where she feels comfortable in a FAS - from about 35-40mph coasting down over about half a mile.

She is going to report the results herself when she returns. She joined earlier today (as KittyBoodles) to share some more of her experiences with this car as well as past vehicles.

Another perk for the Sonata - she said it is very easy to steer in a FAS, although it naturally takes more effort at lower speeds. Sounds like the Hyundai EPS is well calibrated for our needs. :)

Wayne,
Update on aFCD during FAS...
For the test, I told her to slow to about 10mph, reset the aFCD and then accelerate briskly to 35 or 40 (for a low aFCD number) and then note the value and FAS for about half a mile.

She said when the key is off and the car is rolling, the display goes to ----
Upon restart, the number reappears and it is much higher than when the engine was cut.
So during a FAS, the aFCD will not be available, but it does update when the engine is running again.

My theory is that the computer displays miles divided by gallons, with gallons determined by measuring injector pulse width and frequency. So in a FAS, the gallons value would be zero because the injectors are off. And so the calculation would cause a division by zero, hence the ---- or "I don't know" display. When stopped, the aFCD just shows the value it had when the car was parked, so I think the calculation is thrown off when the car is moving but there are no injector pulses. The computer is likely using a dummy value like .0000001 during DFCO because the aFCD will update under that condition.

At least the aFCD does recognize the distance covered with no fuel usage, and so FAS will not skew the aFCD display.

Sounds like a possible mod (for someone else to try at a future date) is an injector kill switch. Perhaps it would read that as a DFCO condition and update the aFCD?

I am wondering if engine rpm figures into their equation, along with vehicle speed and injector pulse?

One interesting test would be to FAS and come to a complete stop, and see if the aFCD pops on with the higher number when the car stops. It doesn't seem to have a problem showing you the number if the engine is off when it's parked. Another fun test would be to set the key "on" and then roll down a hill to gain speed without the ICE running, and see if it blanks out right away or after a distance.

In thinking of an injector kill switch, it wouldn't have the desired result if the aFCD equation does factor in engine rpm. At that point, the kill switch would only bypass the key-twist to stop the engine. Since the 6MT is only available on the GLS version, there is no worry about having to thwart the proximity key (pushbutton starting) to use FAS . And all those keyless-start models have the 6AT which is not flat towable, so FAS is already off the table.

Okay - I have a complaint.



aBIG complaint.


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Ready?


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I want a REAL HORN. Not this "beep beep" thing. ARRGGHH!



One interesting test would be to Fas and come to a complete stop, and see if the aFCD pops on with the higher number when the car stops. It doesn't seem to have a problem showing you the number if the engine is off when it's parked.


I actually did this. :p

Maybe I did not wait long enough, I waited roughly 30 -40 seconds but then I had to get going again because someone appeared behind me on the hill I'd just come down.

Another fun test would be to set the key "on" and then roll down a hill to gain speed without the ICE running, and see if it blanks out right away or after a distance.

This I wanted to try, actually tried it twice, however where I was parked I did not have enough "down" to get moving... and one place I could do it I wouldn't dare (in front of my dad's house on a pretty nice downhill) it really isn't that long to the highway and it's a VERY blind entrance both ways, that would be suicide to try there. At some point here there will be a steep enough hill to try that on and I will.

Hi, Karen -- does it go easily into 5th or 6th for bump start when in a FAS? My Elantra does not -- I have to pull it slightly toward 4th to get the synchros to spin a bit first, then it drops straight into 5th.

Hi there :)


Chris wrote: So far, her perception of a bump start is the old push start on MT cars, where the car is placed in first gear and you pop the clutch .... and he's correct.

One main reason I wanted to put my little story here (above posts) is to show what experience I've had with MT cars, this Sonata is my first MT car that actually works the way it's supposed to. :D Downshifting from 4 - anything (or any other type of downshifting) never - ever worked in the Mustang, and you could only go from 5-3 in the Daytona before it would have a stroke and quit on you if you were not fast enough on the clutch... and that was the High Performance one that I could not always get to with my back/leg.


So.... while Chris explained it to me, I really would rather wait for a little while, and, it would be helpful also if someone would explain it step by step for me what to do to bump start it.

Just to explain a bit further, I'm not afraid of the car, I'm afraid of my back. One wrong move (even a sneeze) can throw it out, so that limits me in life. Example; I'm not afraid of spinning an airplane when it's a "controlled gentle stall / spin" because even though the plane I own and fly is notorious for it's stall / spin characteristics (it flips over on it's back, then rolls back over, then starts spinning) it's typically not a harsh jolt unless you really kick the rudder into it. If you are interested, google "Piper Tomahawk" and "spin" and you'll find plenty of accident reports and tons of video. ;)


So if someone could please explain step by step - and please remember too that I don't know all of the acronyms used here on this site - how to do what you want me to do, once I get a little more time on this clutch I will try it. :) Is there maybe a video here somewhere? Also maybe some day an expert could meet up with me and show me how, as I'm more of a visual person.

Thanks!

Oh sorry, hit post too fast...

I have a question please, for anyone who uses a MT.

On many of these back roads, they are what I call "roller coaster" roads... up, down and lots of s-turns. There is almost always a point in time when you are at the top of one gear close to the next one up (or at the bottom of one close to the next one down) to within 1 MPH or so. It is not always the correct thing to do to follow the little arrow to up or downshift because of the road changes ahead... and in the past I've never had a car with the arrow suggestions, I've always gone by RPM and feel.

So here is my question: Which is better for fuel economy: If I'm riding in 5th and just at the top where the car is very very close to 6th, do I stay a little low in 5th - or - do I up to 6th and take the 1 or 2 MPH faster? (road conditions permitting both gears are safe to be in)


Thank you

Okay - I have a complaint.
a BIG complaint.
I want a REAL HORN. Not this "beep beep" thing.
Ha! It can't be any worse than the horn on my old red Chevette (aka "The Vette"). That plaintive nasal trilling followed by that awful gurgling that sounded like the car was choking to death. It was wonderfully effective because people were afraid of the horrible noises it made rather than being irritated that they were the target of acoustic wrath.

Hi Karen:

___Absolutely fantastic write-up of your personal history and experience with the Ford and Dodge and now the new 11 Sonata for the few hundred miles you have been behind the wheel!

___The Hyundai Press Fleet manager E-Mailed me a few minutes ago (he is reading this thread as I sent him the link) and would like me to do the Chicago to NY run in Mid-June. I have to do some schedule finagling now ;)

___While there, I hope to meet you when I visit Chris and if you are around, we’ll have a lengthy Hypermiling clinic since I too should be accustomed to the Sonata after more than just a few hours in the car by that time :)

___Regarding cresting the hill, stay in fifth as that accel while still climbing in 6th is going to hurt if you are that close to the shift point. In fact, you may want to allow a little droop in fifth as you crest and then once over the top and on the way down, immediately up shift as you should not lug when heading back down the other side a few mph below where you would normally up shift. A lot of techniques are available in rolling hills and the best FE comes from those with 50 to 200' elevation delta's. Advanced techniques apply for the very best FE of course.

___Finally, I think its time to add a Hyundai forum as we have quite a few stories on them. Remind me later tonight and I will be gin the process of moving everything over.

___Good Luck and again congrats on the new ride. Its “fricken awesome, aint it”!

___Wayne

Hi Wayne :)

___Regarding cresting the hill, stay in fifth as that accel while still climbing in 6th is going to hurt if you are that close to the shift point. In fact, you may want to allow a little droop in fifth as you crest and then once over the top and on the way down, immediately up shift as you should not lug when heading back down the other side a few mph below where you would normally up shift. A lot of techniques are available in rolling hills and the best FE comes from those with 50 to 200' elevation delta's. Advanced techniques apply for the very best FE of course.

Ahhhh okay, that is what I wanted to do - what felt 'right' to do. I just wanted to make sure what I felt was the correct thing to do! Thanks!


I really hope I can be there to meet you in June! It would be great to learn from the best. :)


Thanks!

Hi Karen:

___I would place Andrew and Sean in the "Best" category as they get to drive their sticks to outrageous fuel economy every day of the week... I am just a poser hypermiler that puts a target on a new car, truck or motorcycle in order to find out what it can do :D

___Good Luck

___Wayne

What I would like to see - and it will have to wait at least six months - is the Battle of the Sonata FE competition. That would be a comparison of the upcoming Sonata hybrid to the Sonata 6MT driven properly. I showed Karen the glass roof of the hybrid and the Blue Drive display, and it looks like we could end up with the two cars we'd need to hold the competition ourselves.

If the 6MT, with a rating of 24/35, is already in the mid to upper 30's (and sure to increase), the hybrid's projected 37/39 might just make 1000-mile tanks a sure thing.

Hi Chris:

___While I would love to take out the Hybrid "today :D" given the high speed glides without doing anything, I suspect that when both the stick and Hybrid are driven to their respective maximums, the Stick will best the hybrid drivetrain. The only issue is working your tail off in the Stick while watching every nuance of the instruments and calculating best practices on a continuous basis vs. the Hybrid driver who will simply drive merrily on down the road without giving much thought to anything other than DWL around the PSL :)

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Karen, have a look at the post linked below for step by step instructions on bump starting (among other things):

Re: Looking for Stick Shift hypermiling videos. (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showpost.php?p=259636&postcount=11)

If I'm ever in your area (or you are in mine!) I'd be happy to demonstrate if the procedure is still murky for you after reading through the above. :)

Thank you Sean!

I'm glad I waited and will wait to try this, I need more time in the car - especially with my previous MT experience, and I have to work out more numbers and the tach speeds and more clutch-feel.

Regarding my one real complaint with the Sonata, Okay - apparently I'm not the only one who hates the horn. So much so that I'm going to be making my husband change it. (Seriously)

Found this (thanks Chris) on another forum -

------------------------- copy ----------------------------------------

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36003883/ns/business-autos/

In it is the following quote:

"An example of Hyundai’s lightning reflexes is the horn on the Sonata. It appeared at the media drive program for the car that there was not a horn left on a scooter in Seoul, because Hyundai must have swiped them all for use on the Sonata. Hearing criticism that the bleating horn was an embarrassment to a car as impressive as the Sonata, Krafcik and his team made the decision within weeks to replace the moped-grade hardware with a more appropriate dual-shell unit that will give the car a fuller presence when the owner needs to use the horn."


---------------------------------


There are many times when I have to get an animals attention to scare them off the road or away from the direction of the car. The current horn will not do this. A deer earlier just stopped and stared at me, while the Maxx's horn has sent them running in the opposite direction in the past, or had shocked them into stopping before crossing.


The other and more important - thing is that the current horn lacks the "oomph" to get a person's attention, especially if they have windows up and/or radio blaring (and possibly even on the phone) To me it's a safety concern, and I'm not one to use a horn much at all ... but when I do, I need an attention - getting noise. (Not to mention that the Sonata looks so sharp, it should not sound like one of those roller-skate cars.)

Don't get me wrong, I love the car, but this is something that must be changed, either by my dealer or my husband...


:)

quote: "I hope I didn’t bore anyone, and hope that this was somewhat interesting for you all.

Karen"


Not at all. I read every page of this thread so far, and I have to say it's been a way better review of a car than one could find in a car magazine.

Best of luck with your new Sonata, Karen!

Welcome and thanks for the info! That was an amazing write-up and very thorough. Maxx and I have talked of this in the past, but I now forget. What part of NEPA do you come down into? If you come down too far, you'll be cutting in on my turf. :D I pointed one out to my wife yesterday while we were out and I'm hoping she'll eventually let me switch up to one of them. Our other vehicle will become a minivan (shudder) out of necessity.

Welcome and thanks for the info! That was an amazing write-up and very thorough. Maxx and I have talked of this in the past, but I now forget. What part of NEPA do you come down into? If you come down too far, you'll be cutting in on my turf. :D I pointed one out to my wife yesterday while we were out and I'm hoping she'll eventually let me switch up to one of them. Our other vehicle will become a minivan (shudder) out of necessity.

Thanks for the welcome :) I'm glad you liked the write-up.

I'm near Mount Pocono sorta near the Pocono Raceway if you follow Nascar. :) I grew up here so we'll have to fight for turf I guess. ;)

Where are you? (if I can ask?)

:)

Thanks for the welcome :) I'm glad you liked the write-up.

I'm near Mount Pocono sorta near the Pocono Raceway if you follow Nascar. :) I grew up here so we'll have to fight for turf I guess. ;)

Where are you? (if I can ask?)

:)

Oh, you're "way out there" compared to me. I grew up & still live in the Berwick/Nescopeck/Bloomsburg area. Farthest that I can call "home territory" is Wilkes-Barre.

I've been out your way on occasion, but never spent any major time in it. Party on... :flag:

I may be out there occasionally now. New job in Allentown, and I may run out that way and use 476 on occasion. I'd DEFINITELY take that route home one day if I knew your car would be there for me to drool next to.

Do you have any other pics of it that really show off the purple of the exterior?

Oh, you're "way out there" compared to me. I grew up & still live in the Berwick/Nescopeck/Bloomsburg area. Farthest that I can call "home territory" is Wilkes-Barre.

I've been out your way on occasion, but never spent any major time in it. Party on... :flag:

I may be out there occasionally now. New job in Allentown, and I may run out that way and use 476 on occasion. I'd DEFINITELY take that route home one day if I knew your car would be there for me to drool next to.

Do you have any other pics of it that really show off the purple of the exterior?

Sometimes I'm near Allentown - Maybe we could meet up for lunch or something, Chris and I will be down your home way some time soon. I'll leave it up to you two to work out the details if we take the Sonata on that trip. Either way we could pick a day and place. Maybe I could get you to teach me the bump start in exchange for wheel time. ;) :woot:

I'll take some more outside pics to better show off the color, it's so neat, and it appears to change colors on you while you look at it. One second it looks blue, then black, then purple. I'll try to get some over the next couple days when the sun will hit it just right and post back here.

I have been getting some straaaaaange looks, I tell you - but I can't be sure if it's the styling or the color or both. :)

BTW, these are most of my favorite 'rides' in the pic below. :)

Chris and I will be down your home way some time soon. I'll leave it up to you two to work out the details if we take the Sonata on that trip. Either way we could pick a day and place. Maybe I could get you to teach me the bump start in exchange for wheel time.
Somewhere near "Top of the 80's" - over by the college. About 15 miles or so, and the Crimson Crawler can do that round trip on about 3/4 of a gallon. :)

...One second it looks blue, then black, then purple.
Considering it's black & blue and purple, maybe you should change the name tag on the car to "Bruise Sonata" - a play on "Blues Sonata" - a Jazz composition by Charlie Byrd. :)
http://cover6.cduniverse.com/MuzeAudioArt/Large/26/418826.jpg

I have been getting some straaaaaange looks, I tell you - but I can't be sure if it's the styling or the color or both.
It's still so new that few people have seen it even now after three months of brisk sales. Most people who see it guess that it's a Lexus or a Benz. To keep 'em guessing, get a license frame that says "Property of Area 51" "Roswell, New Mexico". Ha!

Somewhere near "Top of the 80's" - over by the college. About 15 miles or so, and the Crimson Crawler can do that round trip on about 3/4 of a gallon. :)

(snip) ...

To keep 'em guessing, get a license frame that says "Property of Area 51" "Roswell, New Mexico". Ha!

Top of the 80's would work well. Ha! You'll have to get that, I don't know of anyone who does that here, that would be funny. :)

Hi Karen:

Cool Sig!

How are the seats holding out for you regarding their comfort. That drive home was not an issue from start to finish, right? Sightline to blind spots? Wheel to pedal reach after adjustment?

And hopefully Chris remembered this one. How was the rear seat leg room when the front seat was adjusted for Chris?

In the manual, is it a 7,500 mile oil change and is there any inordinate amount of maintenance items until 100,000 miles or thereabouts?

Do you have to cycle through the menu's in one direction and go all the way around or can you cycle forward to the aFCD (average Fuel Economy display) and back to the iFCD (Instantaneous Fuel Economy display) and forward again to the aFCD? Many cars today will only allow you to cycle forward so you have to tap the info (or whatever it is on the Sonata) button about 5 to 8 times to cycle all the way through the menu's to get back to the one you were looking at previously.

Does that small display wash out in different angles of sunlight. It looks deep black w/ white lettering so I doubt it is ever problematic.

Does the transition from gear to gear feel "notchy" (kind of like it does not want to go unless moved in straight lines and 90 degree angles to go into the next or previous gear) or is it buttery smooth.

When you described the steering, was it very light at parking lot speeds and picked up "feel" (a bit more torque needed on the wheel) at higher speeds or is it really light from 0 mph all the way to 65 mph?

Thanks in advance

Wayne

Hi Wayne,

I will answer your questions in a bit, also please stand by for pictures of the multi-color effect.
:)

What color is it?

Larger photos are available on request.


Black?

http://www.kittyboodles.com/jpg/sonata/838b.jpg


Blue?

http://www.kittyboodles.com/jpg/sonata/826b.jpg

Purple!!


http://www.kittyboodles.com/jpg/sonata/847b.jpg

http://www.kittyboodles.com/jpg/sonata/831b.jpg

http://www.kittyboodles.com/jpg/sonata/827b.jpg

http://www.kittyboodles.com/jpg/sonata/851b.jpg

http://www.kittyboodles.com/jpg/sonata/855b.jpg


All taken at the same time of day, just a few steps over from each other. :)

Hi Karen:
Cool Sig!

And hopefully Chris remembered this one. How was the rear seat leg room when the front seat was adjusted for Chris?

In the manual, is it a 7,500 mile oil change and is there any inordinate amount of maintenance items until 100,000 miles or thereabouts?

Thanks in advance

Wayne

Re: Rear seat. My legs fit fine in the rear, even with the front seats back quite a ways. Headroom is tight, though, and I had to slouch a bit. An extra inch of headroom would be welcome, but I am taller than average.

I have the pdf of the owners manual so I can answer the maintenance questions.

Normal maintenance (severe service intervals roughly half), with "inspect" items left out. Only change/replace mentioned.
Every 7500 or 12mo - Oil & Filter
Every 15000 or 12mo - cabin air filter
Every 30000 or 24mo - replace engine air filter, replace engine coolant (after 60k miles, eg; 90k, 120k, 150k, etc)
Every 60000 or 48mo - replace coolant (see above - good for 60k, then every 30k thereafter)
Every 75000 or 60mo - inspect MT fluid (replace MT fluid if severe service)
At 105000 - replace spark plugs
At 120000 - inspect valve clearance (states "inspect for excessive tappet noise and/or engine vibration and adjust if necessary")
At 120000 - inspect fuel filter and fuel tank air filter (states they are considered to be maint-free but inspection is recommended due to varying fuel quality.)
The automatic transaxle fluid is "no check, no service required". For severe service, change every 60k.

.......At 120000 - inspect fuel filter and fuel tank air filter (states they are considered to be maint-free but inspection is recommended due to varying fuel quality.)
.....

That seems pretty long. It makes me curious about their fuel filtering system. Specifically, I wonder if there is an unusual screen/filter on the inlet for the fuel pump.

Hi Karen:

Cool Sig!

Hi! thanks :)

How are the seats holding out for you regarding their comfort. That drive home was not an issue from start to finish, right? Sightline to blind spots? Wheel to pedal reach after adjustment?

The seats are incredibly comfortable for me, and this is an amazing thing in itself, with my disability, sitting (standing, etc) in any one position for more than 10 minutes starts the nerve damage singing. A tiny bit of shifting in the seat does take care of this for the most part, and it's no fault of anything other than my back. I can tell you that Chris had a Saturn sedan and I was miserable in it no matter where I sat. I was very surprised after 140 miles that I could get up and out. To me, the seat does not push into your spine area, and does not have a bulge in the lumbar area, they are not hard but firm, and has enough cushioning for support all across my back. One issue I have with most cars is the part that the back of your thighs rest on, and the seats in the Sonata have very good support there without putting pressure on that area either up or down (which alters your back and spine). If you can think of me as the Princess in the fairy story "The Princess and the Pea" ; you'll have a good idea of what I can feel and how the littlest thing can cause pain. These seats are so comfortable that I did not want to get out of the car! I don't know what they did right, but they did it perfectly.

I can reach everything, and I mean every knob, dial, shifter, button and so on when seated. Unless I drop something on the floor of the passenger seat side, I'm good. If you've ever sat in the cockpit of an aircraft, you will appreciate that you can get to everything you need to when seated and driving.

There are very little blind spots on this car, (I know, all cars have them) but in the Sonata they are very minimal... in fact the pillars (I think they are called A Pillars?) are thinner and I don't have to physically move to see around them on the front 1/4 of the visibility area. The windshield and side windows are big and wide, and the rear window is also big, allowing you to see the bottom corners better than in other cars. The bigger mirrors allow a lot of visibility around the car as well, and when positioned correctly you hardly have any 'real' blind spots. The pillar behind your head and left shoulder is also "thinner", so when you turn to shoulder check, you get a really good view without having to really turn your upper body. (A real plus for me!)

Wheel to pedal reach - I'm still kinda working on which "seat click" is better for me. I tend to sit farther back in the Maxx and the Lebaron, but in the Sonata I find I'm sitting one to two more clicks forward so that I can fully clutch without stretching my left leg. I think that is a personal choice however, as what could be a "normal stretch" to you or anyone without a back/left leg injury, can be painful to me. Either way I find that it is very comfortable and the clutch is not too far out. (forward) if that makes sense? If I could make any changes to the clutch at all, I would move it left about one inch. But that is a personal thing.

And hopefully Chris remembered this one. How was the rear seat leg room when the front seat was adjusted for Chris?

In the manual, is it a 7,500 mile oil change and is there any inordinate amount of maintenance items until 100,000 miles or thereabouts?


I'll let Chris answer these for you as the manuals are in the car and he has the pdf file, I don't want to give wrong information. It does not however, have an oil life monitor, which I personally love in the Maxx. So I'll just have to be careful on mile tracking for that.


Do you have to cycle through the menu's in one direction and go all the way around or can you cycle forward to the aFCD (average Fuel Economy display) and back to the iFCD (Instantaneous Fuel Economy display) and forward again to the aFCD? Many cars today will only allow you to cycle forward so you have to tap the info (or whatever it is on the Sonata) button about 5 to 8 times to cycle all the way through the menu's to get back to the one you were looking at previously.

Does that small display wash out in different angles of sunlight. It looks deep black w/ white lettering so I doubt it is ever problematic.


This annoys me slightly. Yes, you have to scroll though everything to get back to what you were on. It does move quick and once you get the count down, you can get back to whatever display you want fast enough. One thing I would change here is to either: have an option to show two displays at the same time, say the instant and average split level, and if they could add one more button/display for the odometers A, B and Total, plus time traveled (in hours and minutes) to keep those out of that loop, that would be good. Split those up.

I have not have any trouble in any light seeing the display, it did not wash out.



Does the transition from gear to gear feel "notchy" (kind of like it does not want to go unless moved in straight lines and 90 degree angles to go into the next or previous gear) or is it buttery smooth.

Okay, this is the cool thing, I don't know if I can describe it accuratly but here goes; I know what you mean by "notchy" and no, it does not feel that way to me. It's rather smooth. I find that when in "neutral" it kinda... more in the easy position for 1 and 2... meaning, when you are in neutral you don't feel like if you lift straight up you will go into 3rd. Does that make sense? You naturally 'feel' 1, then pulling down is an easy 2, going to 3rd is easy from there, you won't fight to find 3rd... then it drops easily into 4th. The cool part is where 5 and 6 are, when you gently pull up from 4th just move over slightly to the right (you'l feel the stop) up to 5th then straight down to 6. When in 4th and you want to go to 5, it's just a slight move up (into Neut) then right and then up. You won't be double thinking that you are back in 3rd - Its got a real smoooooooooth feel. The shifter does not "pull" in any way, and is very, very solid in your hand.

You can easily feel where you need to be, and do not need to do the "pull, up, over, up" deliberate movement thing, feeling for the "ratchety" points.

I've had MT's where you had a lot of play between the gears and this is not one of them, very little movement is needed to get to the gear you want, you can move the shifter with your fingers pretty much in 1-4, and a slight wrist movement will give you 5 and 6, you don't need to move your whole arm.


When you described the steering, was it very light at parking lot speeds and picked up "feel" (a bit more torque needed on the wheel) at higher speeds or is it really light from 0 mph all the way to 65 mph?


To me, it was very light and 'airy' at all speeds, it does get looser at higher speeds it does not bog down like some other cars feel when you get slow. One-handed steering is quite easy at all speeds, especially when you need to really turn while shifting.


Does this help?

Hi Karen:

Excellent end user descriptions and I cannot wait to try that stick out for myself. Must have very short throws only to have to use your fingers in 1 through 4 and if it’s smooth, even better!

I am going to retweet this thread as it is that good :)

Thanks again.

Wayne

Top of the 80's would work well. Ha! You'll have to get that, I don't know of anyone who does that here, that would be funny. :)

Top of the 80's could do nicely. The double-climbs up over Nescopeck Mountain and up to Hazleton kind of kill me, and lack of DFCO is a bummer cuz I can't 9999 MPG down. Only manage about 29-31 instead of 37 mpg. :)

Lots of open parking area up there to work on learning bump-start too. :)

We'll take full plans over to PMs? Thanks for the color shots.

"Sonata as an Expression of Art"


Here are two photos from the collection Karen posted earlier, where the photos show the color flip-flop of the pearlescent paint. Both photos are not retouched, and show the hood and door skins with some fascinating reflections.


http://www.kittyboodles.com/jpg/sonata/839b.jpg


http://www.kittyboodles.com/jpg/sonata/853b.jpg

Hi Chris:

So what is the color of Karen's new Sonata anyway, “Morphed Glass”?

A different shade depending on the time of day, sun or clouds and the surrounds that reflect off of it!

Good Luck

Wayne

The paint they are using on the Sonata is definitely outside the realm of what you'd expect in a family sedan with value pricing.

When I was on the back lot at the dealer the other day, I saw three cars parked side by side. All looked black until I stood where the sun highlighted the creases in the sheet metal. One was black, one was pacific blue, and one was plum. Just as the plum uses blue and red to mix up the plum/eggplant hue, the Pacific Blue uses blue and some green to make a different flip-flop color that shifts from blue to green to a dark teal blue.

The clearcoat has a mirror-like finish that you see above, and the quality of the finish is excellent.

Hi Karen:

Excellent end user descriptions and I cannot wait to try that stick out for myself. Must have very short throws only to have to use your fingers in 1 through 4 and if it’s smooth, even better!

I am going to retweet this thread as it is that good :)

Thanks again.

Wayne



Ahhh "short throws" - that is the term I was groping for. :) thanks!

I'm glad to answer any questions you have. I may not know all the terms but I can try to describe things best I can for you.

I think you will like the car when you get ahold of it. :)

Karen


ETA: I keep forgetting to say this, it still gets me that this Sonata is a full sized car. It feels and handles more like a Coupe, a little 2 door sporty thing. I can't wait until they have a convertible.... ;)

Karen was chatting with me earlier today. In the last week of driving, she's still above half a tank of fuel. The average MPG is around 37 on the built in aFCD, and she is concentrating on getting the techniques just right for the rolling hills of Northeast PA. She said she was going to fill up just to see how she's doing so far (compare miles/gallons vs dash display). I told her to hold off until it gets closer to 1/4 because if the dealer gave us a short tank and she tops if off, it will show more gallons used and corresponding lower FE number. The first tank is for getting the feel of the car and finding what works with it, using the aFCD as the guideline, and then the real fun starts on the next tank.

If the new Sonata, with less than 400 miles on it, with stock tire pressure and factory oil, and driven in almost a test-n-try environment, is showing an average of upper 30s on the dash display, I am thinking tank averages of over 40mpg are not far off.

She is very enthusiastic about the car - from its styling to its interior room and comfort. And she loves the handling and performance, and the smooth clutch and gearshift action. This is already shaping up to be a fun car, and I find that encouraging because the new FE star in our driveway is also the one she will want to drive most often. So much for fuel efficient cars being penalty boxes!

My 04 Elantra is rated 21/29 by the 08 EPA with the automatic transmission. I'm averaging 36-38 MPG. The more efficient engine you get, with the way better transmission, I'd say once it's "set up" for hypermiling averages around 45 will be an easy bet!

First fillup this morning. 10.07 gallons, 334.7 miles, 33.237mpg. Since that first tank was "filled" by the dealer, the number of gallons to fill is likely high compared to the actual fuel used. Karen said that the gage did move one pip off full rather quickly when we first got the car, so I think it was not quite full. But at 112.67% of EPA, it is already showing promise. Now the fun begins on tanks we can actually track now that we have a true full tank.

Karen confirmed that the aFCD did reset itself to zero after filling the tank and starting the car, as it says in the manual.

Hi Chris:

I formed the Hyundai specific forum this morning so if you see any Hyundai specific threads that I did not move yet, move them over at your leisure.

I should have asked earlier. Are their two aFCD's or just one?

And now that Karen is on her own fuel, the clock is ticking to see what its worth now that she has some experience with it :)

Good Luck

Wayne

There is only one aFCD, and one iFCD. And as mentioned before, you have to scroll through the displays to come back to the one before. And the aFCD will show only tank averages, since it resets when more than 6 liters of fuel are added to the tank. This is not a limitation for us CleanMPG'ers who will have the lifetime FE calculated here as tanks are added. And this-tank-only averages will show a more immediate result of how new techniques affect fuel economy.

She wasn't too happy about the 33.x average, but I said that the tank was likely not topped off (so gallons in at this fill is probably more than gallons burned), and that this lower than expected result will make the next tank look that much better.

On another Hyundai forum, people are snapping photos of their aFCD and showing high 30s to low 40s with 6AT equipped cars. And the stick is worth much more, so I am thinking low to mid 40s will be within reach once the car is tweaked and the techniques are nailed down.

Hi Karen and Chris:

I have not seen the 11 Sonata in person until today. I saw three of them while on I-94/294 up here in Chciago while Marian and I took Scotty to the Doctor this afternoon.

One was in front of us for about a mile and from the rear; it has a sleek looking HCH-II kind of look. Also, it looks smaller from the rear than the pics I have posted from the media site yet it is by far the largest vehicle in the segment it is competing in.

I cannot wait to get my hands on one for lengthy drive of my own. Now that I have seen them in person, this hard to nail down exterior appearance is one of its best attractions. It is unlike any other car I have seen yet offers more than any of its competitors. While pointing squarely at the Accord/Camry, it is priced like a Civic/Corolla which again adds to its appeal.

Just great to finally see one on the road and I hope Hyundai can get the world out that this is one sweet looking and performing ride. If I were Honda/Toyota, Ford/Chevrolet and Mazda/Nissan, I would be worried as this car bests all of their offerings in the exterior appearance category and destroys them on standard equipment, size and amenities for a given price!

I almost feel embarrassed not to have done any coverage on the 11 Sonata prior to its launch. Which goes to tell all of us how far and fast this company’s offering have come in a very short time.

Good Luck

Wayne

Results from our first highway trip - about 160 miles - Karen doing all the driving. Temp 82-84F, west winds between 10 and 20mph. We were driving mostly southwest, but as the road curved and we headed into the wind, you could feel the shudder from the gusts.
These results are simple DWL and DWB - at or under the PSL and no FAS and no fancy Pulse and Glide other than working with the mountains of central PA.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/651/medium/2011Sonata_aFCE_052010.jpg

Getting out on the highway had the aFCD in the low 50s. Toward the end of the trip, lower speeds, traffic lights and traffic obstructions resulting in the aFCD settling at 48.2 at the end of the trip.

Score! I can go for a 45-50 MPG daily commuter that seats five in a pinch....

Two pictures of the new Sonata on the battlefield at Gettysburg, PA.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/651/medium/2011Sonata_GBPA.jpg

The purple is only barely visible in those shots. I'd definitely take that color if we decided to go for one. Or the dark blue. My wife ADORES the color purple, I bet she'd go for it.

I'm just dying to know the tank average on this one. When I told my father-in law about the highway mileage ya'll are seeing on the aFCD, his first comment was "I don't think they know what they're talking about, they're looking at the wrong number" :rolleyes:. I said that I trust that they know what they're talking about... it was the aFCD, not the iFCD. To which the reply was "It'd be all over the news if that were true". Oy. I truly hope I'm not that bull headed once I cross over that side of 50.

Ok - we have a tank average, and an observation on the aFCD...

On the way back, near home, we filled up with 11.974 gallons, with 461.7 miles, for an average of 38.56mpg. The trip computer has an elapsed time counter, which works as an engine hour meter. The highway travel amounted to about 40% of the time the engine was running, with the other 60% being stop-n-go in town and crawling along (15mph limit) in the national park.

Considering the close to 50/50 city/highway mix, the average of 38+mpg indicates that the car must be close to the 48-54 numbers it was displaying for highway FE, since it would need that to offset a city average in the mid to upper 20s.

Now onto the aFCD... What I found was that it does not seem to track the tank average, but rather how well you've been doing over the last hour or so. When we got it out on the highway, I had Karen reset the aFCD because I knew we were over 50mpg, but didn't know how far over since the iFCD reads only to 50. With the slight hills of I-80 in PA, the number would drift between 45mpg and 60mpg, settling in the low 50s at a speed of 55-60mph. As we got to route 15 (traffic lights and construction zones), it dropped to the 48.2 seen above as we exited the open road.

Over the next four days of creeping through the ripped-up roads and crawling through the battlefield paths, the average displayed was in the mid 30s. So far so good for an "average", with the low speeds pulling the tank average down by about 12 or so.

But then we got back on the highway to head home. After about 80 miles, the average was back in the high 40s. The only way to push the average back up by 12 would be if we were getting 70+mpg, or so I would think. When we got to the gas station to fill up, it was just under 50mpg on the aFCD display. That would seem to be our average FE since we started the car and got out on the highway, but not the tank average. The actual measured tank average is over 38, and is not far off where it read the morning we left to come home.

The "distance to empty" did not correlate with the aFCD, as the gage read almost 3/8 (which would be at least 6 gallons) and was reading roughly 150 miles to empty. And 150/6 is 25mpg as the aFCD was reading almost 50? It makes me think that it is pre-programmed to use "25" as the mpg number rather than using the current calculated FE value.

I think the next step is to get a scan gage on it to see the real numbers as they unfold on one of these trips.

Summing up, I have no reason to doubt it's at 50mpg on the highway. I trust that the display is within 1 or 2mpg because there is no way we could have averaged over 38 with all the driving in circles at low speed. For the low speed tourist-town stop/go, we would have been right around EPA city because Karen didn't want to lug an engine with less than 1k on the odometer, so she wasn't shifting up a gear until the engine reached 2000rpm, and she didn't do any FAS or other advanced techniques. Tire pressure is still stock as well.

Am I happy with the FE number? Well, in the Chevy, we would have had to fill it before leaving to head home, because of the lower FE and smaller tank. This car still had plenty of fuel left and could probably have gone til Friday before filling up again. And this trip involved gusty headwinds getting there, and sidewinds coming home. And the car is not yet set up, and was driven with gentle no-lug shifting, and only basic techniques. And we still slaughtered the EPA with it.

I don't have enough experience with Hyundai engines to know how long it takes them to loosen up and what sort of increase results. But the car's daily driving involves a higher percentage of highway-only driving, and is already closing in on the goal of 40mpg tank averages, so it will be fun to see how far we can push it when it's broken in and tweaked for better efficiency.

Hi Chris:

I am actually sadden to hear that the aFCD is a near term averaging display vs. a full tank or resettable average display but we'll have some good numbers with a ScanGuage-II to digest in less than two weeks.

Good Luck

Wayne

Wayne,

Karen just called in the numbers for the latest tank - 488.2 miles, 14.19 gallons, or 34.4mpg. The aFCD read 34.9 as she stopped at the station, and was showing about 42 on the drive back from the station. I think it is accurate if your drive involves fairly constant traffic and techniques, but it gets thrown off by unusually long runs on the highway followed by prolonged stop and go.

This last tank involved a lot of single lane construction zones where the traffic is stopped for periods of time, and also a few times getting stuck behind school buses on steep roads, where there is no passing allowed. Both kept the overall average from really standing out, but the Chevy would struggle to average 30 in the same environment with the same techniques. I am certainly not complaining about a full size car that can average over 34mpg in mixed driving with only mild techniques used. And almost 500 miles on a tank, filled when the gage clicked one pip under 1/4 means that 600 mile tanks are something anyone could do without having to really work at it.

What's the tank size on that again? 18.5? Stuffed flush it's probably 20 gallons, maybe 20.5/21.

I think stuffed full and configured you can kilotank it easy. Throwing the book at it you can probably kilotank it from "standard" fill level.

Hi Nevyn:

I think an 1,100 mile tank could be a drive in the park with the possibility of 1,200 miles if weather conditions cooperate? All due in part to exactly what you posted. This thing actually holds upwards of 20 gallons from top off to fuel starve. 60 + mpg and 20 + gallon tank gives an awfully big range for this full-sized automobile!

And why the 11 Sonata is so intriguing to me. It is really good looking, it is outrageously fuel efficient for something as large as it is and the price is excellent to match.

Chris, can you find out what than the older Sonata's have allowed for any of those that have tested the max range waters in the past? I know Sean has tested his Elantra to its limits although I have long since forgotten what his tank cap and actual cap was?

Our Sonata arrives on the 14th for a two week ordeal... Maybe we'll have some decent numbers for her by then too :)

Thanks in advance

Wayne

Hi, Wayne -- my Elantra is listed as possessing 14.5g of capacity but I tanked up at 17.049g on my record distance tank.

Hi Sean:

I hope that Sonata holds 21.5 + gallons! Sounds like I have to bring along a 2.5 gallon gas container for the ride back in case I want to find out ;)

Thanks again

Wayne

And why the 11 Sonata is so intriguing to me. It is really good looking, it is outrageously fuel efficient for something as large as it is and the price is excellent to match.
The fuel efficiency is attributable to the low weight (the GLS weighs about as much as a 2011 Cruze LT) and low drag coefficient (0.28 - much sleeker than most sedans), and the gas direct injection engine allows leaner fuel mixtures without detonation or excessive NOX emissions. Add in the CVVT valve train that allows plenty of low end torque, which in turn allows taller gearing while maintaining adequate acceleration, and you have a FE winner.
Chris, can you find out what than the older Sonata's have allowed for any of those that have tested the max range waters in the past? I know Sean has tested his Elantra to its limits although I have long since forgotten what his tank cap and actual cap was?
I don't know anyone who pressed a last-gen Sonata to the limit of fuel range or max fill capacity, but the 2010 Sonata is EPA rated at 22/32 with 5AT and 21/32 with 5MT. That's about 10% lower than the 2011 Sonata. The tank on the last gen Sonata is listed as 17.7 gallons, or about 5% less. They definitely upped the ante with the current generation.

My '04 Elantra lists at 14.5 gallons and I've put in 16.602 after 629 miles. I'm getting even better MPG now though; I'm sure it could be pushed harder.

Sean has a 5MT to my 4AT, but I've got VVT and he doesn't.

karen and chris, keep us posted! i love this thread and i'm strongly considering buying a hyundai sonata! yall are increasing the sells of the sonata! awesome looking car! goodluck!

Hi Joesgot4:

I just tweeted your post and I am also looking forward to Karen's experiences and discovery's as time moves on too!

Good Luck

Wayne

Karen was telling me earlier this week that the car is doing well and is over 1000 miles, and it seems like the engine is loosening up. Better acceleration. And the clutch is less grippy and the shifting doesn't feel as stiff.

We were laughing earlier this week as I was reading the posts on another Hyundai-specific forum where other owners were driving their new Sonata 6MT and said they stalled it on takeoff more than any other car they've ever owned. It needs more throttle to keep the engine from stumbling or stalling. When Karen test drove it, she stalled it twice within the first half mile. When I drove it, I stalled it twice within the first half mile. The clutch has an on/off operation when it's brand new, and once you know that's the case, you can compensate. What we were laughing about was that we were both thinking in our minds, "I didn't know I was that far out of practice" as we were driving it. But it turns out that we're not the only drivers who noticed this quirk in their factory-fresh Sonata. Now, with over 1000 miles on the car, the clutch is smoothing out and drives more like the usual stick shift.

As of tomorrow, we will have had the car a month. So far, no regrets at all. And no disappointments. As we get to know the car, we keep finding more things it has (like resistive heating elements in the glass under the wipers so they don't stick to the windshield in winter) that we didn't know about. And so far, other than the meep-meep moped horn Hyundai installs in the Sonata - an easy upgrade with aftermarket dual horns - there is nothing to complain about.

And because this is my first Hyundai, it is the first time I am realizing that Hyundai offers online free access to owners manuals, TSBs and service manuals. You can locate and print instructions on how to remove/adjust/repair/replace just about any component on the car. For shadetree mechanics, it's a dream come true. And a great way to save on auto repairs for those who have basic tools, basic skills, and a free afternoon.

You know, I had forgotten about the clutch experience in my Elantra... it exhibited the same behavior as your Sonata. It is still very smooth 100K mi later. :)

Sean, thanks for the confirmation. I know that driving is stick is like riding a bicycle. You never forget. The first half mile of driving it had me wondering if I had lost my touch. But I had never driven a brand new car with a MT - all my stick time was on cars with plenty of miles on the clock. And for Karen, her stick cars all had their own unique "personalities", so she had to adjust to the everything-new Sonata as well. What I can say, though, is that Karen and I agree that the Sonata stick is a very easy car to drive. Once you're on the highway above about 45mph, the engine has enough power to allow the driver to leave the transmission in top gear and drive shift-free like an automatic.

Hi all,

Just a quick update;

I'm past 1500 miles on the Sonata and the clutch is really smoothing out for me. It's a bit tricky in 1st from a stop, but I found the exact touch on the clutch/gas to get it going, and can now shift earlier than when it was new without feeling that lug/chug on the engine.

My average is reading from 36.8 to 39.9 depending on traffic - as anyone in PA knows almost all roads and many bridges are under major construction causing long stop/go. There is one long up/down hill and when I get stuck on this 3 mile downhill the traffic stops-goes at under 5mph - so what I've been doing is just shutting off the engine, keeping it in neutral and coasting down. A restart at the merge from 2 to 1 lanes and I'm off again.

The button for the reset is on the lower part of the steering wheel, so I think I accidentally had reset it in my earlier long trip(s). Now it seems to be reading steady.

I've also figured out (thanks Wayne!) where to keep it in the lower end of the higher gear and when to shift down on the roller coaster roads here, which is bringing my average up a bit more. That was a little tricky to learn where to keep it, plus, having the engine break in now set I'm seeing a bit lower all around numbers, and higher average.

It seems like you can go for a - long - time without getting gas too. Chris has the latest number where I blew past the Maxx total miles driven in one tank.


I also found, quite by accident, a neat little cubby on the front passenger side when I was picking something up from the pass side of the car. Where your left knee sits on the side of the hump there is a plastic panel storage area for a passenger cell phone or map, mints, or ? This is in addition to the door panel storage and it keeps the passenger small stuff out of the way of the driver who keeps their phone and charger in the well in front of the charge outlet tray.

Notes about the heater / air conditioner:

Sometimes even in summer in PA the temps can swing 35 degrees in 12 hours. So once I tested the heat, and about 1 and a 1/2 minutes after turning it on, I thought "well, the heat does not work that well at all..." and before I finished that sentence I was being heated right out of the car. Yikes. So - the heat works really well.

Using the A/C is nice - a test of that at 90 degrees and it works really well! The blower is a bit noisy at the full-on all the way up level, but you will find that you won't need to stay at the top blower level for long, just enough to push hot air out of the car, then you can drop it down (fan level) and it's very very quiet - and COLD. Nice!

If there are any questions anyone has let me know and I'll try to answer them.

I LOVE this car! Whoohoo!



*** ETA: Oh yes - the horn. One comment. I really hate the horn. Apparently I'm not the only one either.... judging from the other forum and all the directions for the DIY people to change them.

Quick note: I went to a local store not too long ago and after I'd gotten out, pressed the clicker twice to lock the doors and heard this little sickly "meep" Embarrassed, I turned to a landscaper (young guy) who I was passing and said "Is that not the stupidest horn sound you've ever heard?" This led to him stopping what he was doing and then telling me that he was glad I had done that, his girl-friend had just bought one and he said he was heading straight to the car parts store to get a replacement for it.

So - the one and only 'real' complaint I have about it is the horn... and that will be changed soon. :)


Karen

Oh - before I go - I forgot something; Wayne, you asked a while back if there is any fade out for the digital display. I found - one - situation where it does fade a bit - the sun has to be low in the sky and behind your left shoulder. While it hits it and there is some fade, you can still read it, and if you drive with your left arm on the door/window all you have to do is pick your hand up to touch the roof-line (window open) and you can easily block the sun. It's not a big area at all, and the sun has to be exactly 'right' to cause the fade. But again you can still read it.


Karen