Archives

I figured I'd make a blog of what I'm learning and discovering with my new car.

-Fuel economy at 60+ mph on cruise is very close to that of my old TDI. When this one breaks in, it may beat the old one in certain cases. Haven't been able to get city fuel economy close yet. While my old one would easily break into the mid 3 L/100km range, it's been hard to get this one below 4 L/100km so far. Granted, I haven't done much city driving so it may improve a little.

-I'm starting to detect some of the engine's transitions in operating modes to do regenerations and so on. It's not as seamless as in the Sportwagen we drove, possibly because there's less weight to smooth things out? The best analogy I can think of is that it feels a little like when the engine fires up when accelerating in a 2nd generation Prius, which means most passengers will probably never notice.

-I miss my Euro spec headlights! These ones aren't too bad, the low beams could maybe use adjusting up just a little. High beams are pretty good, especially for halogens.

-Cabin isolation is very good. It's a very quiet car at highway speeds.

-Great gearing. Every gear seems to have a purpose, unlike some close ratio boxes. 5th is taller than my old 5th, and 6th is even beyond that. 60mph is about 1600rpm in top gear now, compared to about 2000 before.

-MFD average so far says 45mpg for this tank. No clue how accurate it is yet. Jettas are usually pretty close to accurate. I'm hoping my car is too.

-Scangauge is useless. Can't display coolant temp or boost, and fuel economy seems way off. Seems like the LOD number is messed up and that's throwing fuel economy off.

More to come as I learn more.

-Great gearing. Every gear seems to have a purpose, unlike some close ratio boxes. 5th is taller than my old 5th, and 6th is even beyond that. 60mph is about 1600rpm in top gear now, compared to about 2000 before.


Nice. (1800rpm - 1900rpm in our Civic)

60mph is about 1600rpm in top gear now, compared to about 2000 before.:eek: Wow! Even the 2000-ish rpm of our older Mk4 TDIs are lower than any other MT I've driven in many years.

Hey Mike, you may still be able to swap out the 5th gear for a taller one. I seriously considered that for my former Jetta.

Wow again on the gears! I'm running 2500 at 60, and I know some are even worse. Honda Fit, I believe, is pushing 3000 rpm.

That's better than my ridiculously geared Insight. :)

Hi Mike:

___Have you made it through your first tank yet?

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Hi Wayne, I think I still have 2/3 of a tank left. Turns out I'm carpooling most days so it only gets driven once or twice a week.

Just passed 1000km on the odometer. Still have about 1/4 tank left, will probably end up burning through the rest of it this week.

Got the ScanGauge cable routed and installed today. There's not much useful information that I can pull up with it yet, right now I'm limited to water temperature, volts, and that's about it. I'm afraid this car is going to become a black hole for my money. The list of things I want to do with it keeps growing. Next weekend, I'm installing a trailer hitch so that I can carry pedal bikes and / or tow the motorcycle. Windows could probably use tinting, too.

Other random observations:

MFD still says about 45 mpg. Fuel economy on more recent trips seems to have improved a little.
Interior space is good overall for a car this size. I just wish there were a few more storage compartments.
Being the early adopter for an uncommon model makes finding parts and how-tos hard to find. Haven't been able to find a source for oil filters or oil yet other than the dealer. Americans get free maintenance on their VWs but we do not.
Nice seats. Better side bolstering than what I remember from the Jetta. The seats seem to be somewhere between the regular Jetta's seats and the sportier GTI ones. The rear seats are also reasonably comfortable.

First fill. 958.1km on 48.52L for 5.1L/100km or 46.4mpg. MFD said 5.2L/100km. Windows have been tinted and hitch is now installed, but something's up with the trailer wiring harness and I can't figure out what :mad: Brake lights aren't working correctly for some unknown reason. I've rechecked wiring multiple times so I think either the controller is defective or it's not the right one for my car. The tint seems to make a significant difference in cabin temperature when in the sun.

Been watching the Scangauge more often recently and it looks like it'll be impossible to get an accurate mpg reading out of it. MPG seems to be derived from LOD somehow, and LOD simply isn't an accurate representation of the fuel flow rate in this car. I don't know how LOD is calculated, but it just loves to hover around 60-70 regardless of what I'm doing. Then I noticed today that the car was going through a DPF regen on the highway and LOD dropped to around 40 for that period. I'm wondering if the EGR rates somehow affect LOD calculation. The engine runs a lot of EGR whenever possible to keep NOx down, but drops it significantly when doing a regen to bump up combustion temperatures. If that's what's really going on then I'm honestly amazed at how much that system is being used. Accelerating or steady state, LOD is always in the 60-70 range except for that regen. It's as if the ECU's primary concern at all times is keeping emissions in check, which I guess makes sense. But it makes me wonder how many more MPG a Euro spec engine would be worth with less concern about the NOx.

Interesting. That tank average isn't far off of what you averaged in your other Golf... think you can bring it up substantially? How long does it take for a diesel to "break in" anyway?

Hi Sean, most of the break in is done after 10k miles. After that, things keep slowly improving for another 50k or so but the difference during that period is much less significant than the first 10k.

Above 50 or so mph, this car will go toe to toe with my old one unless advanced techniques are used. I'm thinking the gearing may even give it an advantage at high (75+ mph) speeds. This car seems like it will just eat up high speed highways miles. Around the city is where it gets killed. Idle fuel consumption is about 50% higher than my old car, and it's a total pig for the first mile or two of most trips where it's probably burning extra fuel to bring the DOC and DPF up to temperature.

I'm sure the average will be improving and beating my old car's average as time progresses. I'm a little restricted in what techniques I try to apply during the daily commute because the car's often filled with 2-3 co workers who want to get to work and back home at their usual times, and I try to keep cabin temperatures more reasonable for them. The flip side is that I only need to drive 1-2 times a week though so I'm quite content with that arrangement.

50% higher idle consumption?!? :eek:

Yup. My old car was around 0.4L/h. The new one's 0.6-0.7L/h. I'm wondering if that will come down as it breaks in, I recall it being even higher a few weeks ago.

Wow. How are you measuring this if the ScanGauge is hopelessly off? NICE-ON coasting monitoring of built-in FCD?

Yeah, I can calculate it back from the NICE-on coasting. Also, if I'm idling below about 3 km/h the iFCD will switch to L/h instead of L/100km.

That's a neat feature!

A couple pictures with the newly done tint and hitch.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/500/IMG_3471.jpg
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/500/IMG_3476.jpg

Very nice! That's a slick vehicle, Mike. :flag:

Hi Mike;

I wholeheartedly second what Sean said! VEEERY nice :D

BTW: 0.5 to .07 resembles the idling consumption rates for a gasoline engine. I agree, that is not typical of the frugal idling rates diesels are known for, but then again, there must be a good reason for that. Could it be another emissions related attribute?

Cheers;

MSantos

Hi Manuel, it could very well be emissions related. Perhaps the extremely lean idle that diesels usually do was leading to too much NOx.

My 2.0L I-4 idles at .21-.24 GPH. It jumps to .36 if the A/C is on.

Mine is similar to yours, Nevyn... which is why I am pretty much never using steady state and the car is off as much as possible.

I still shake my head when this topic comes up. My 1.6L idles at 0.35 gph, as bad as your 2.0 with AC on.

I'll have to check the next time I'm in the Elantra... mine may be higher usage than I recalled. I remember it being surprisingly high.

EDIT: Found an earlier mention of what I see. 0.35gph with no AC. :(

http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showpost.php?p=149157&postcount=10

I've got an XD2, Sean - yours is just the XD. I get CVVT that you don't have; that's probably the difference.


Is there any way on the Golf to look at AFR?

I could probably grab that with a VAG-COM, but I don't have the interface cable to do that. My idle consumption seems to go up by 0.2L/h with the A/C on, which is only about half the increase that yours does.

Mike, that sounds like a classic case of low end torque helping the diesel performance.

My 2.0L I-4 idles at .21-.24 GPH. It jumps to .36 if the A/C is on.

Smart is at .26GPH at idle and .42 GPH with AC on. That is crazy for a 1.0L engine. Although I thing the idle with AC usage is off as the last couple tanks have been higher than what was caclulated. Not to mention gearing gets me to 3000 RPM in the 55-60 range.

Are you guys noting these GPH numbers in neutral or drive/gear? I know my 1.8L Corolla idles at .19 GPH in neutral and .26 GPH in drive, but if i'm stopped the car is either in neutral or the engine is off.

.21-.24 in N, .24-.32 in D.

I can't idle in anything but neutral. ;)

Really? I have one of those fancy transmissions that lets me idle in gear. I push in the clutch :p

These numbers are from idling in neutral.

I don’t shift to N, but since smart is an automated manual, the car is in N until you take your foot off the brake.

My first encounter with the questionable VW service quality today. Had an appointment for a checkup at 7:30. Get here to give them my keys, I'm told the service guys don't get here until 8:00. So why can they make appointments for 7:30?? There was a software update released very recently that my car is also due for. I'll have to do some research to try to figure out what it does.

Perhaps it lowers the idle consumption?

Hi Mike;

My Honda and Toyota dealers have been doing that for many years. They book the appointment (check-in) at 7:30 even though most of the service staff only arrives at 8:00AM. In doing so, the service advisers can begin to line-up and prioritize the work tickets so that when the individual bays open, they will be already loaded with cars.

I typically check-in my cars at 7:30-7:45 and I leave them there for the entire day. Also, the shuttle vans usually start departing the dealerships at 8:00AM or minutes after so it helps to have all the paperwork done before you jump on the van. ;)


Cheers;

MSantos

Hi Manuel, that seems to be exactly what Auto Haus does as well. I just wish I knew that in advance. I didn't bring my old car to the dealer so never had that experience until now.

There's very little info on the software update so far. It was released yesterday and may even be a recall. I believe it is related to the oxygen sensor. It seems the old software was a bit too sensitive and was throwing check engine lights in some cars.

It's taken me a while but I've finally started to come to terms with the fact that I won't get the same city fuel economy as with my old car. There just seems to be too much weight, power, and emissions controls in the way. But it impresses me on the highway. Loaded it up with 3 people and cargo and A/C on, it did better than my old car would in those conditions. That should hopefully only get better as it breaks in.

The novelty of a new car is starting to wear off. I'm starting to question why I went for a dark color. It's so hard to keep looking good and clean! The HVAC controls look fancier than my old Golf, but I miss the solid feel of the old ones, and the old ones were easier to use too. An ergonomic misstep that surprised me a little. The side mirrors are a little small. They would probably work well with the European glass (like Wayne had on the Euro Civic), but with the North American glass I don't feel like I get the full range of coverage that I like.

Interior is very nice and a big step up from the Mk5 Jetta. It's received a lot of compliments from people saying it feels like a class up from what's expected.

Still haven't found any local source for oil besides the dealer. Hoping I can find some at a Pep Boys in the US on my next trip down there.

Hi Mike

Its a great looking car and it sure looked awesome that day in the park. By the way, I really liked that tidy engine bay. :)

You are right, darker colors are a bit of challenge and I cannot blame you for wanting to keep it clean and looking good.

Now, to get that star trek add-on force field to keep the bugs off of it :D


Cheers;


MSantos

Lol let me know when you invent that deflector shield. I'll certainly buy one ;) Not sure if you noticed my front license plate that day. It's covered in some bad bug stains from my old car when I took less care to wash it. Looks a little out of place on the new car. Speaking of that, it reminds me of this last picture I got of my old car with a bad stain under where the front plate used to be. It's a good illustration of how much sleeker the new car looks compared to the older one.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/500/golfs.jpg

Managed to find some Mobil ESP 5w-30 meeting the VW 507.00 spec at Pep Boys in the USA. So I'm pretty much all set for doing my own oil now.

Spent a couple hours under my car last weekend installing an aluminum skidplate. I had one on my old car and came to the conclusion that it's a nice item to have on low cars driving through rural Manitoban winters. That extra layer of protection gives nice peace of mind for me and is totally worth it. While under there, I noticed they're finally starting to pay attention to underbody aerodynamics. Things were much better covered up than with my old car. The oil pan seems to have a bit of extra insulation on it as well, which was somewhat surprising.

OEM plastic belly pan
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_DOGYFgXgyJQ/TFyu_YRT2xI/AAAAAAAABR0/vCdXbpVP2xk/s800/skidplate1.jpg

Belly pan removed
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_DOGYFgXgyJQ/TFyu_qyV6WI/AAAAAAAABR8/2aLtfVM_USk/s800/skidplate2.jpg

Skidplate installed
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_DOGYFgXgyJQ/TFyu_egTjYI/AAAAAAAABR4/2CVvx6OVT1Y/s800/skidplate3.jpg

Looks good, Mike! :thumbs_up:

Where did you get the oil? Was it here (MN)?

Yes, it was somewhere on the south side of Minneapolis. I think that's pretty much the closest one to here (other than one in Coon Rapids ;)). I was short on time that weekend, otherwise I would have tried to stop by and see you.

Well, if you ever need more I could try to ship you some. (WARNING!! I have no idea what shipping oil would entail!!)

Thanks! Luckily the 10k mile interval and my below average yearly mileage should mean I'll usually be able to find a friend or family going down there in time to pick some up for me.

This car seems pickier about low quality fuel than my last one. I don't know how bad this stuff was, but I put in a couple gallons at a local supermarket to get me through the week until I could get to my preferred station. It idled noticeably rougher when cold and actually stalled once after a cold start one morning. Guess I won't be filling there again.

Hi Mike,

I was trying to track down some previous advice re: a "hesitation"/"hiccup" problem w/ my 2010 Jetta TDI Sportswagen. I mistakenly thought it came from Brick/Tim, and he suggested I ask you. The "sensation" is as if there is a momentary skip in the fuel delivery to the engine, then it goes away for a while. The advice suggested two three-letter codes/acronyms, one relating to low-gear, low-rpm acceleration, and the other to highway speed deceleration, including while in cruise mode. It also advised that the problem is well-known among Audi-version owners and that some dealers are aware of a software fix, while others are clueless. My dealer is in the latter group, and they say that nothing shows up when they check for codes, and, of course, it didn't happen during the 5-minute test drive with the mechanic. Ironically, it's happening more frequently since my 20K service during which they made some "recall" fix to, I think, an oxygen sensor.

I love the car in every other respect (can't quite match your mpg but happy nonetheless), but having shelled out for a brand new car, I don't think I (or anyone else) should have to put up with it.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Happy and safe driving to all,
Bill M

Hi Bill, I am going to guess that those acronyms were EGR and DSG. The DSG is the automatic transmission that the TDI engined vehicles use. It's an automated manual transmission with computer controlled clutches. It seems that in some situations, the computer still isn't as good as a human at modulating the clutch and there can be some hesitation / jerkiness at low speeds. The DSG and Ford's PowerShift may be some of the best automated manuals available but there are still a few things that need fine tuning.

EGR stands for exhaust gas recirculation and is an emissions control mechanism to keep nitrogen oxides down. The TDI has a relatively complex system with two different EGR paths for different load / emissions control situations, and I believe different turbo boost levels are required as well for the different EGR paths. When switching between the two, there can be a momentary hesitation.

I am not aware of any software fixes for this, but you may want to read around on tdiclub just to make sure. It is unlikely that you will see any codes, because for the most part, this is normal operation. Something that we have to put up with for meeting emissions regulations.

Hi Mike,
Thanks ever so much for your considerate reply. I will bring your thoughts to the attention of the dealer and see what they have to say. I will gladly post any feedback I get so that others will have it. Perhaps, as you say, it may just be the price to pay for being "clean".
Best Regards,
Bill

Did my first oil change last week. Despite the less accessible filter location, it was much cleaner than with my old car. The filter comes out without dripping any oil. Surprisingly, it's a much smaller filter too. Maybe more modern materials or the cleaner burning of the engine allows them to do that.

This engine may not reach the T2B2 / T2B3 levels of some of the hybrids, but I was impressed with how clean the exhaust pipes were looking. Pretty much the same as the day I picked up the car, and no traces of soot at all after 10k miles. My old car probably had a denser coat after 10 miles.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/500/pipes.jpg

Wow, that is clean. It looks like freshly extruded pipe.

Got to try out its cold weather starting performance yesterday. Friend needed a boost and car wasn't plugged in. -22C (-8F) and car hadn't been used in about a week. Result: Those glow plugs are fast! So much faster than what I was expecting, I was too busy shutting off the radio to notice the light had gone off already. Engine wasn't that loud after starting either, but it sure vibrated a lot for the first 30 seconds or so. A high idle function would probably help that, at the expense of more fuel though. Think it was burning 2.2L/h after it fired up :eek: Used to more like 1.2L/h when using the block heater in the same conditions.

http://www.youtube.com/v/menifmzYVmI

Where is the light in the dash shot shown in the video?

The glow plug light is the light closest to the "1" in the tach, it stays on for 3-4 seconds. I'm used to more like 10-15 seconds from older diesels. I'm not sure how to make the embedded video bigger, but if you go to the Youtube video and watch the HD version, you can kind of make out its shape. It looks like this:

http://www.askthemechanic.co.uk/images/Glow%20plug.jpg

Ah -- thanks, Mike! I figured it was one of the two red lights on the tach but couldn't make them out.

You are right -- that light went out mighty quickly! :eek:

Had my first in-city DPF regen in recent memory so I checked out the FCD to see how much fuel it was using. 0.9-1L/hr when doing the regen at idle, dropped to 0.6L/hr once it was done. Temperature was about 34F.

Maybe it's just me, but I feel like I can be a little more aggressive with the clutch now. We noticed that during the Jetta TDI Sportwagen review, the clutch was a bit sensitive and numerous 2.0 TDI owners have said the same thing. Somewhere around 700 rpm (idle is ~820), the ECU decides it's had enough and simply cuts fuel to the engine. I'm guessing this is for longevity of some component or maybe for emissions reasons. Anyway, I've seen the tach down in the region where it would usually stall and now it keeps running. Don't know if it's just me getting trained to keep it from stalling, or if the engine / ECU is breaking in and becoming a little more lenient. Some people have also mentioned that there is a dealer reflash that allow for a lower minimum engine speed, I'll inquire about that next time I'm at the dealer.

That regen is near my normal idle gph level. It's too bad your regular idle is so high for a diesel.

Suspect it's in the name of meeting emissions. Curious if the new Passat with SCR will do better.

Just realized it's been almost a year since I visited the dealer. Going to probably make an appointment soon, an annoying dash rattle has come up that I want to take care of before any more road trips.

Ordered a sub to put in the hatch. The base stereo is kind of lacking in the bass department and I am missing some of the basslines that I enjoy on my home stereo. Hoping this will help fill in that void.

Not quite as good as a certain F-150 :p But 130 passenger mpg with AC on, keeping up with traffic, and a full load in the car and the roof bin isn't too bad. The one tent may also look familiar :D

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/500/medium/P1010491.jpg

I like it! That looks like a Golf TDI's native habitat. :D

Hi Mike - I was thumbing through the thread and it seems like winter went by pretty fast. Can you give us an impression of how much the winter mpg drops compared to summer mpg?

Thanks,
-Raj

Hi Raj, this image probably describes it better than I can:

http://www.cleanmpg.com/garage/images/cha3441.png

Haven't updated in a while. Had the 20k mile service done a few weeks ago, they said the water pump was leaky so it was replaced. My first problem with the car, and looking over at tdiclub, seems a few other people have had that issue as well. Also had a software update done, the car seems to drive a little smoother at low rpms now and is a bit more resilient against stalling.

Winter tires are on and grille is blocked, mpg is dropping too with the increased rolling resistance and slower warm up. There isn't any diesel smell when the cat and stuff warm up, but from a cold start it's definitely still there. Was 15F or so the other day and needed to move the car on short notice with no time to plug in. After getting out, the diesel smell was definitely lingering in the air. First time I've smelled anything from my car.

Spotted my car's twin the other day when out shopping. Never seen another dark blue Golf TDI until now.

A few updates, one thing I don't like about this car (and newer cars in general) is the visibility. The high beltline and thicker A-pillars are probably required for modern safety standards but I miss the large areas of glass of older vehicles. One recent thing I did to help a little was install the Euro blind-spot mirrors. They're apparently common on the European versions but unfortunately we don't get them here. It takes some getting used to but I like them so far.

http://www.myturbodiesel.com/images/misc/mir/vw36.jpg

And after a winter with a shortage of diesel across the prairies and high diesel prices as a result (notice the sudden spike around October), production finally seems to be catching up and prices are stabilizing a little. It seems to be back on par with gasoline, which is where I usually expect it to be this time of year.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/500/fuel_prices.png

Journalist Peter Cheney has a Golf TDI that he is taking on a road trip to see how it compares to a hybrid: Diesel Golf worked great today - ended up getting 6.2 L / 100 k average fuel consumption while cruising at 122 km/he with two people and luggage Which converts to 38mpg at 76mpg.

Earlier in the week he averaged 3.9l/100km (60.31mpg) over 307km just driving.

What would a Prius give at 76 mph ? I thought at one time that I would be happy if I had a car that would give 50 mpg at 80 mph. Today , I know that same car would give much better results at 50-60 mph . I changed.

That wide angle mirror is a neat idea.

What would a Prius give at 76 mph ? I thought at one time that I would be happy if I had a car that would give 50 mpg at 80 mph. Today , I know that same car would give much better results at 50-60 mph . I changed.

Somewhere in the 40's. The drop off is pretty steep once you climb above 60-65 MPH. This is Gen II numbers, not sure on the Gen III.

That's great to hear about Peter getting 60+ mpg over a good distance. The car can really perform when it's driven in its sweet spot. With warmer temps now, my car is doing much better than a few months ago.

Hi Mike:

I am seeing diesel about $0.15 to $0.25 less than 87 unleaded here in Illinois. Does Canada experience the same winter/summer price swap for diesel to gasoline in Winnipeg?

Also, what did your 20K service cost besides the free warranty repair on the water pump.

Mike Sirach, cruising at 75 mph and averaging 75 mph are two very different things. Did he say which?

Here is a 2012 Elantra GLS while flying and to get that average speed over 250 miles, there were a few miles on a closed track at 100 + mph and pushing 5 to 10 mph over for most of the rest.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/2/High_Speed_Run.jpg
Was at 74 mph avg over 250 miles until running into this…

Wayne

Hi Wayne, I think most of the country is pretty much like Winnipeg with diesel higher in winter but lower in summer. Remember that this winter was abnormally bad because a refinery exploded creating a diesel shortage. Usually diesel is around 5¢/L higher in the winter and 5¢/L cheaper in the summer.

The service was $170 total. $65 for the oil and filter, $45 for the fuel filter, and $60 for the labor and various inspections. I thought I was all set to change the oil myself the week before and ended up not having my tools here, so I just got them to do that too while it was in. First time I've had a dealer do my oil in a long time.

I've done a few road trips with cruise set at an indicated 80-85mph (high 70's actual) with mid to high 30's mpg. So Peter's numbers seem reasonable to me.

Error on my part. It was 38mpg at 75 mph.

I need a plot summary of the DSG implementation into the Jetta. I lost my faithful 2001 TDI to a collision and am considering a 2009 6 speed DSG vice going all electric. 2009 was one of the early years for the Jetta DSG. I know about the mystery shift into neutral, but this is a dealer certified "pre-loved" car so presumably all company offered maintenance/upgrades have been implemented.

I also note that the EPA rating on this vehicle is 29 city/40 highway, which surprised me by being a tad lower than its colleagues. Any explanation for this?

So, is there anything I should look out for or consider before dropping 18 large on this?

Hi OriEri, sorry to hear about your 2001. The EPA rating on the TDIs seems to underestimate its true efficiency and it seems to return several mpg better than similarly rated gasoline cars. The false neutral / mechatronics issues are the big ones I know of with the DSG, if it's used then the problem may have already been looked after by the previous owner. I'm not sure how they are long-term.

Saving money with a Jetta TDI DSG may be difficult to do. I would say buy it because you like the car first, not because you want something cheap to run. I'm not sure how fuel prices are in your area but if diesel is more expensive than gasoline that may eat into much of the mpg advantage this car has over other compacts. And the DSG requires rather pricey fluid changes every 40k miles that most cars or the manual TDI wouldn't need. Just keep that in mind, it may be worth asking the dealer what those services will cost you. And with all common rail TDIs, I recommend using a lubricity additive. It makes the fuel pump's life a little easier.