2011 Ford Super Duty Press Launch [Archive]

xcel

03-06-2010, 08:18 AM

Hi All:

___Sorry I have not been posting much as I spent all day at the Glendale dealership having the Tonneau cover installed. It was so late in the afternoon that Ford decided to put me up in Glendale for the night.

___Kssatathead, the emissions cannot be modded by anyone that Ford knows of and there is only one highly protected tool in the country that can get into the deeper brains to manipulate the chip(s). I asked that question during the Doug Scott Q&A and received a very vague answer last week. This was explained and confirmed by the lead engineer two days ago over a personal Q&A so it is a very good sign.

___Andrew, yes, there is a manual mode and you can shift just like a manual with a + - toggle on the end of the right shift stalk. Third gear starts work too ;)

___This engine is so strong that the TC will stay locked up all the way down to 900 RPM and Fuel cut will only disappear when you approach the 900 R level from what I was seeing. In addition, the 2011 Super will not buck or lug down to 900 RPM. It simply does not lug! I was towing a 10,000 pound load up a 4 to 6 percent grade at the 35 mph PSL in switchbacks and she was holding 1,200 RPM’s without a care in the world. The Silverado HD was having trouble and shifting around between 1,800 and 2,200. Same with the Dodge and its Cummins. The Dodge Cummins felt really crude, loud and handled very poorly when towing. The GM Duramax was simply struggling. When coming down the same grades, the Chevrolet was a handful. The Dodge was scary. The Ford was tap on the brakes and she would drop a gear and hold speed. No switches, no buttons and simply forget about what you were hauling and pay attention to the road ahead. Very impressive. And it idles at just 600 rpm too.

___I looked at the loads to verify there was no screwing around with distribution or weight and there was not. The 25,000 pound trailer drive up and down was similar although you could tell even the 6.7L Power Stroke was working hard with R’s up at 2.2 to 3K range while traveling at 20 mph over the PSL (55 mph). They would not allow us to drive with that load, only the Ford CDL driver and me alone in the passenger seat. The GM and Dodge products let alone the F250/350 were not rated for anything near that weight so they were not included in that maximum tow comparison.

___About the displays… I have the cheap dot matrix one and there is another that is not only beautiful but comes on most of the other trucks. It is called the 4.2 Information Screen and is really cool. The aFCD is a readout with a bar coming off it and crossing into the iFCD bar graph. Very colorful and unique. I asked if the display engineers spoke with Gil and Company of the Hybrid group and found out that yes, she did :D Again, one of the best and simplest yet beautiful green/blue/black i and aFCD displays I have ever seen in my life!

___About accuracy, we will find out on our way home but from my discussion, injection timing is being used for i/aFCD numbers and Ford is not screwing around. They encouraged me to see for myself on the drive back which is exactly what we always do.

___Another metric that came from the dealer group that took the trucks out all day yesterday. At an average speed of 85 mph, the truck with a 3.73 rear end averaged 16.9 mpg. Not impressive for total FE but impressive for someone doing something stupid in this 390 HP monster.

___Finally, in an all-out FE run across the US, 30 mpg is possible and with the large trucks 42 gallon tank (I only have a 28 gallon one), 1250 miles should be easy.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

hobbit

03-06-2010, 08:57 AM

Those "manumatic" settings are one of the things that certain
safety advocates are waving their arms about, saying they confuse
drivers so they can't find N when they need it most. Hmmph.
.
To me, of course, it's just another instance of people not
understanding their vehicles, but there's a lot of that going
around these days...
.
_H*

xcel

03-07-2010, 11:19 AM

Hi All:

___Finally got out of Gilbert, AZ about 02:00 yesterday afternoon... 17 gallons of B99 in 4 containers are on the floor in the back seat and she was topped off.

___The Garmin/Windows CE was causing me a ton of trouble so Ford’s Work Solutions MGR. called and told me how to reboot it on the fly. Hold Power Button in for 10 + seconds after you have powered down the screen or key off for a few minutes. I was Keyed off for a few minutes but left the screens up and running for data details ;)

___Comfortable seats!!! Soft top cushions to harder foam. Two sunglass holders and enough cup holder to hold all of my Pepsi’s :) The only issue is its has a very dead on-center steering wheel feel with about 3 degrees to either side not causing any output to the wheels. Trucks are like that but I think Ford’s next change will be to that.

___Reliability? Of all the 10’s of Prototypes in Haliburton, FPL, Duke Energy and two Texas Asphalt Contractors (ones a rancher as well), the only issue was a radiator thermostat came apart. Over 10,000,000 miles of testing and over 250,000 of that these Prototypes in the hands of guys that don’t really care if the truck breaks because its not the truck, a minor radiator thermostat was not to bad a showing!

___Climbing a monster like this with that 900 RPM TC Lockup is kind of easy actually but it took half the night to figure it out. 4th comes in around 22 mph, 5th around 31 mph and 6th at ~ 41 mph. Once you are in 5 or 6, do not let it go. Keep applying the coals and she will stay locked up until at least 39 mph before the inevitable downshift.

___Lost 30 mpg after 2,000' above sea level and was sitting at just 26.7 once I hit the 7,000' sign near Flagstaff. It was not snowing or hailing as I climbed into Flagstaff, there was a T-Storm and the "snowballs" were falling from the sky! I have never seen that before???

___I visited Meteor Crater but it was closed and completely fenced off with barb wire :( Pulled out onto an open plateau about 2-miles away and took a ton of pics at dusk with two fronts (one to the east and one to the west). Absolutely beautiful and I hope the pics turn out ok???

___Anyway, I was almost back to 30.0 (29.9 for a while about 25 miles to the West of Albuquerque) when I saw a note pop up on the message center. "Exhaust filter cleaning" or something like that... This is going to hurt. I had just battled 200 to 250 miles of strong 10 to 20 mph side winds from Meteor Crater at dusk to this point running the absolute PSL minimums for probably 1/4th of the drive against those side winds and was only at ~ 5,800' when the message occurred. The FCD over 16-minutes dropped from 29.9 to 29.1 mpg with a 200' drop in altitude before I had to FAS the rest of the 800' drop from the West side of Albuquerque. I think she finished but I just couldn't wait any more as the East side of Albuquerque has a 2000' climb to over 7,100' again! Anyway, by the time I was on the East side, the FCD was showing 28.9 and I had a lot to make up but with almost 500-miles on it now, making up was going to be tough. Advanced techniques became the norm after that one.

___I pulled into Santa Rosa, NM about 04:00 AM local (MST I think?) this morning and got about 4-hours of much need rest. Time to hit the road again and do the battle of the aFCD. I sure wish this had the 4.2" LCD with the pretty screen and graphics (including the iFCD!!!) to see how bad that DPF regen was but I have the miles and FE via the aFCD to back calculate. About 12-miles over 16-minutes and 29.9 to 29.1 for anyone that wants to do the rough estimate.

___She has about a eight of a tank with the message center saying something like 160 miles to E and that was about 60-miles ago. I was too tired to look at all the screens other than my constant companion, the cheapie dot-matrix aFCD when I arrived in Santa Rosa this morning ;)

___Nathan, can I stop by so we can take that oil sample on Tuesday evening? I drove over 75-miles out of the way to get the B99 and would hate to miss this opportunity. Call me on my Cel at (847) 772-3406 (or anyone else that wants to say hi ;)) and will talk via BlueTooth.

___Hope to be near the OK/MO border tonight and will try and catch up again.

___Wayne's Excellent adventure with the 2011 Ford Super Duty continues...

___Good Luck

___Wayne

npauli

03-07-2010, 02:10 PM

Wow.
My truck is comparable in many ways, and my best tank ever is 26!!. Only broke 30 a couple times on short trips across town. And mine's 3 steps behind in emissions levels.

Now the questions is: how much if the improvement is in engine, xmsn, gearing, aero, DRIVER, etc...

At any rate, I'm just tickled pink that MPG is now being respected as much as HP, torque, payload, towing, 0-60 time, etc. Even the diesel junkies at powerstroke.org have a 43-reply post speculating and comparing rumors about the FE of the new 6.7

It's a good sign ;)

EVK

03-07-2010, 03:57 PM

Saw my first 2011 Super Duty today at the Plant City Strawberry Festival in Florida. It was an F-450, Lariat, 8' bed with sprayed in liner, and a 5th wheel connection. The new Diesel was somewhere under the hood but darn near needed a stepladder to see in! Sunroof looked nice, too. Very comfortable but surprisingly less leg room on passenger side than expected. Door sticker said built in 8/2009. Must have been early off the line. The reported MPG is encouraging!

xcel

03-07-2010, 04:01 PM

Hi All:

___First fill is complete and it looks like we have a Prius like issue :( Came in with 0 MTE (Why not right ;)) but was a bit on edge as you should not run a diesel out.

___The numbers... 21.269 gallons of diesel and 5.5 gallons of B99 for 26.769 gallons. 715.2 miles = 26.769 mpg vs. the aFCD at 30.1 mpg. We'll see on the next tank if maybe I had the truck slightly topped off or something as after I snapped the pics, the fuel disappeared. Right now its still in the funnel.

___That was a lot of work for just 26.7174 mpg if its real but I will take it. I will have another 700 + mile tank tomorrow to report and we shall see...

___Nathan, I got your PM. Go ahead and link this thread to the diesel guys if you want ;)

___Good Luck

___Wayne

xcel

03-07-2010, 04:12 PM

Hi All:

___And of course all of this was posted with the Onboard Work Solutions Computer and Bluetooth Keyboard from a Shell in Adrian, Texas ;) Now time to tweet the link...

___Good Luck

___Wayne

xcel

03-07-2010, 08:31 PM

Hi All:

___Stopped in for a bite and may as well update. Have no idea what town I am in but the DPF regen reared up and bit hard just as I was driving through Amarillo. I had her aFCD up to 29.0 over ~ 55 miles when it struck. For the next 15-minutes, she sunk to just 24.5 mpg. She is back up to 27.2 as I sit but there is a rolling cloudbank over the last 100-miles and it is right into the front right corner at about 10 knots. I cannot see but 3 - 6 center line markers so DWL is more like driving by Braille even though I have lost over 2,000' since this morning.

___I will take a nap and see if things improve in an hour or two???

___Good Luck

___Wayne

xcel

03-08-2010, 06:58 PM

Hi All:

___The 2011 Ford Super Duty adventure continues :)

___Drove until maybe 03:00 AM and made half way between OK City and Tulsa. Spent the night in the truck as there were few hotels on the Will Rogers Turnpike. I can say I have driven, hypermiled, worked and slept in my office away from home! And abused those poor Super Duty’s at the AZ Press Launch. And I was the most gentle ;)

___And the particulars… I did not have a top off when I left Gilbert, AZ two days ago as I just spent 30-minutes filling her in St Clair, MO.

___Weather was not in my favor as I left the TX/OK border with 10 to 15 mph direct side and right front corner winds really holding the truck back. It started to rain, then a cloud bank (I mentioned this already I think?) for over 350 miles. I pulled into a Station for the night as it began raining hard again.

___DPF Regens (“Cleaning Exhaust Filter” event) – Had one in Amarillo (29.0 mpg to 24.5 mpg over 14-miles at the 55 mile point), one about 30 miles from OK City (28.3 mpg to 27.2 mpg over 13-miles at the 254 mile point) and again about 20 miles from the OK/MO border (28.4 mpg to 27.9 mpg over ~ 13-miles at the 493 mile point). To have to work again and again to bring the aFCD back from the hit is really frustrating after a DPF Regen event.

___Tank #2: Fuel Low light appeared at 668 miles out, 55 DTE and 28.7 mpg vs. 652 miles out, 58 miles DTE and 30.1 mpg on tank 1. I must have screwed up that fill in Gilbert :(

___Trip A = 740.9 miles on 21.119 gallons of Diesel B and 5.5 gallons of B99 –- 740.9 miles/26.619 gallons = 27.8335 mpg. aFCD showed 29.2 so much closer this time… DTE was actually 13 miles beyond 0 DTE and there was still possible another 1.3 gallons left?

___Trip A/B stops at 999.9 miles. At least Trip B has been stuck there since blowing though that in OK somewhere but I have been using odo and trip A so no big deal but it would have been nice if the Trips went out to 5 or 10,000?

___Central, MO is a Hypermiling playground as there are 50 to 200’ deltas again and again and again… Yes, Basic and intermediate DWL, NICE-On’s and FAS’s for the long ones.

___After the hour and a half filling, eating, typing and tweeting, I am about to hit the road and believe I am about 65-miles from St. Louis? Will try and make it to Nathan’s home before to late but will probably be morning when we connect?

___Good Luck

___Wayne

seftonm

03-08-2010, 07:14 PM

Wow, that's a lot of regens, and they said they reduced the regen frequency. Can't imagine what it was before and how much that was killing mpg.

npauli

03-08-2010, 08:33 PM

Wow, that's a lot of regens, and they said they reduced the regen frequency. Can't imagine what it was before and how much that was killing mpg.

In the continual evolution of diesel technology & emissions requirements, I think the worst mpg penalty came in2007 with DPF's and active regeneration. It's probably worse for hypermilers and "light duty" use, since the engine doesn't generate enough heat to keep the filter clean. Those that are towing across country may never see a regen.

I can imagine it's tough to figure out how to run the truck for best avg FE, when you only find out what the regen costs you a couple times per tank. You could try running faster all the time, or doing short burts of pedal pushing, but you won't really know if that helps keep the filter clean unless you do it for a long time. Maybe somebody can find a way to ask the truck how plugged the filter is, and monitor that in realtime with different techniques.

xcel

03-09-2010, 04:34 PM

Hi All:

___Maybe my last post from the 2011 Ford Super Duty and it’s a Doozy!!!

___Arrived at Nathan's home early this morning at 31.7 mpg. He took an oil sample for analysis later and drove around his sub... I think he liked it??? Left his home at 30.3 mpg on the dash and headed into Chicago.

___Arrived into Gurnee, IL. after 2 DPF Regens. First while leaving St. Louis. 34.2 mpg after 54 miles dropped to 28.1 mpg after 62 miles. That 34.2 was after the last fill and was the same 650' elevation when the Regen started! Second regen took place before Joliet, IL w/ the aFCD at 31.5 mpg and 368 miles out turning into 30.5 mpg and 380 miles out.

___Final Fill was the blowout ;-)

___450.9 miles on 13.954 gallons = 32.3133 mpg top off to top off w/ the aFCD @31.3 mpg.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

xcel

03-09-2010, 04:47 PM

Hi All:

___I am sitting in the station for 15-minutes and will try and fill some more to make sure I do not screw up like I did on the first top off.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

xcel

03-09-2010, 05:06 PM

Hi All:

___Pumped in another .752 gallons to the top of the filler neck so the final is now 450.9 miles/14.706 gallons = 30.6609 mpg.

___Not bad for a 390 HP 4WD Crew Cab capable of towing 14,600 + pounds and carrying gear for a family of four for a month or more ;)

___What a truck!!!

___Good Luck

___Wayne

warthog1984

03-09-2010, 06:42 PM

Not Bad at All!!!

1 question- was the Super Duty empty or did you have the 1000lb ballast in back for the trip? I'm confused.

xcel

03-10-2010, 07:29 AM

Hi Marc:

___17 gallons of B99 in containers, maybe 100 #’s of luggage and I for the trip back :) The 1,000 pounds was placed in the bed during the FE challenge. Only some of us had to take the 1,000 pounds of “stuff” (aggregate) while others drove empty ;)

___A few of last week’s highlights…

2011 Ford Super Duty - Press Launch

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/2_5_Million_of_2011_Super_Duty.jpg
$1.5 Million + in Super Duty’s about to take off.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/25000_pound_tow.jpg
F-450 about to take off w/ 25,000 pound load.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/Looking_out_during_tow.jpg
Towing 25,000 pounds while looking down at a Super Duty hooked up to 10,000 pounds.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/Articulating_Suspension.jpg
Can your truck … Never mind ;)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/Fuel_Economy_Challenge_Road.jpg
A FE Challenge which begins on this???

___Good Luck

___Wayne

xcel

03-10-2010, 07:56 AM

Hi All:

___Our friends at AZ Biodiesel supplying the 2011 Ford Super Duty with all-American made B99! Well, 20% of it after mixing anyway ;)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/AZ_Biodiesel.jpg
Derik Woolstenhulme is on the left with Anthony Cocomello on the right…

___When I pulled up to the pump, Anthony said, "You cannot fill that truck here since this is Biodiesel. There is a gas station down the street with gasoline." When I said it was a diesel, he said, "WHAT??? It’s so darn quiet." He yelled into the door telling Derik to get out here and listen to this diesel because it was as quiet as a gasser :D

___For the Gilbert, AZ location and details, see Az BioDiesel.com (www.AzBioDiesel.com)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/Initial_Top_Off.jpg
Initial Top off at a Chevron in Gilbert, AZ – Approximately one mile from AZ Biodiesel...

___I should have waited and filled some more as just after I took this pic, went back into the truck to reset every menu and screen, I went back and looked and the fuel disappeared down the filler neck. I can only assume I was about 1.5 gallons short from a true top off :(

___Good Luck

___Wayne

xcel

03-10-2010, 09:12 AM

Hi All:

___While receiving the details on the range of Super Duty’s, I was fortunate to meet some very interesting people… I met quite a few native Canadian’s and Mexican’s and one in particular was Paul Williamson of Willy’s Garage. All were great to get to know and all were a lot of fun. Paul was definitely a “leader of the Canadian band” type of a guy :)

___To my new Canadian friends, Go Canada!

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/Paul_Williamson_of_Willy_s_Garage_Small.jpg

Paul Williamson of Willy’s Garage - Blog (http://autos.winnipegfreepress.com/index.php?action=news&step=blogger&id=9)

___Good Luck

___Wayne

xcel

03-10-2010, 09:48 AM

Hi All:

___Climbing into Flagstaff on the edge of a T-Storm. About 5-minutes later, it was not rain/snow/sleet but rain and snowballs that started falling onto the truck!

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/T-Storm_-_Snowballs_nearing_Flagstaff.jpg
Climbing into Flagstaff, AZ with a Rainbow ahead.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/BNSF_Hauling_Freight_Westbound.jpg
A BNSF freight westward bound as it heads towards Flagstaff, AZ, now just a memory in the Super Duty’s rear view mirror.

___About 3-miles off I-40 in NM, 2-miles from Meteor Crater and a half mile off-road… I wish I had the time to camp out as the vistas from this high plateau were spectacular!

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/IMG_1843.jpg

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/IMG_1845.jpg

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/IMG_1850.jpg

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/IMG_1855.jpg

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/IMG_1857.jpg

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/IMG_18571.jpg

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/IMG_1866.jpg

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/IMG_1873.jpg

___Good Luck

___Wayne

xcel

03-10-2010, 11:43 AM

Hi All:

___What Low Fuel looks like… Sort of ;)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/30_1_mpg_at_Low_Fuel_Light.jpg

___What happens is a low fuel warning appears in the small FCD and you must hit Reset to clear it. This one occurred about 58-miles from DTE according to the display and about 50 miles from the Texas border on I-40 in NM. After every restart, you will get the message and must hit Reset to get back to your information screens.

___I was not driving an 11 Super Duty with the 4.2” LCD screen so I have no idea what the Low Fuel warning in those trucks look like?

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/Crossing_into_Texas_with_15_miles_DTE.jpg
Crossing into Texas with ~ 10 miles DTE IIRC.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/0_DTE_when_exiting_the_highway_to_the_Station.jpg
0 DTE and the Shell Gas Station is just ahead. Wheewwww, that was close :)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/First_Fill_-_21_269_5_50_over_715_2_miles_26_72_mpgUS.jpg
30.1 mpg per the aFCD. - 21.269 gallons of Diesel + 5.50 gallons of B99 = 26.769 gallons.
715.2 miles on 26.760 gallons = 26.717 mpgUS. Sort of topped off :rolleyes: to a real top off.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/First_Tank_Top_off_and_795_DTE.jpg
Solid Top off and 795 miles DTE per the Ford display.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/11_Super_Duty_at_Shell_in_Texas.jpg
The 2011 Ford Super Duty will not see many of these in its lifetime ;)

___Good Luck

___Wayne

xcel

03-10-2010, 01:09 PM

Hi All:

___This just in! A friend, Tim Ogilvie, Ford’s FE Engineer Supervisor sent us some pics of the 4.2” LCD Information Screen with the Fuel Economy screen up. I asked if he could snap a few pics of this beautiful addition to the Ford Super Duty the next time he went for a ride.

___Trust me when I say he is every bit as good as anyone when it comes to pulling the most out of a diesel truck :D

2011 Ford Super Duty – 4.2” LCD screen

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/4_2_inch_LCD_Information_Display_-_i_and_aFCD_collage.jpg
4.2" LCD Information Display - Fuel Economy screen detail showing:
aFCD = 25.6 mpg w/ iFCD ~ 25 mpg
aFCD = 27.3 mpg w/ iFCD > 30 mpg
aFCD = 31.4 mpg w/ iFCD > 30 mpg

___The key to this screen is this: Notice how the iFCD is a rising and falling bar graph on the left. The aFCD is displayed in an alphanumeric format to the right but look at the white bar coming off the aFCD average. This is your current average FE and it crosses in front of the iFCD exactly where it currently reads. An excellent use of feedback and this is the second time Ford has thought outside the box. The first being the many stories we have done on Ford’s Fusion Hybrid and its Smart Gauge w/ EcoGuide.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

ILAveo

03-10-2010, 03:24 PM

Hi Marc:

___17 gallons of B99 in containers, maybe 100 #’s of luggage and I for the trip back :) The 1,000 pounds was placed in the bed during the FE challenge. Only some of us had to take the 1,000 pounds of “stuff” (aggregate) while others drove empty ;)

.........

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Was it pretty harsh on rough ground unloaded and was it a comfier ride with the bed loaded? My experience with old heavy duty pickups is that they ride and handle better with a bit of a load on.

xcel

03-10-2010, 04:29 PM

Hi Rich:

___Surprisingly, the 4x4 had a very compliant ride and I had the tires pressed up to 75 psi too!

___I suspect although I did not confirm this (in other words, a WAG on my part ;)), the 2011 Super Duty has dual rate springs as I would have thought this thing would have ridden like a Pogo stick with an absolutely minimal load and tires pressed up to near MAX sidewall. It did not and in fact, I have driven many cars that had a worse ride while driving down the Interstate.

2011 Ford Super Duty – General Tires and Pressure used

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/General_Tires_-_80_psi_sidewall_-_74_5_psi_actual_collage.jpg
80 psi MAX Sidewall with a 74.5 psi actual.

___When off-road… I have not driven much off-road so I would not be the best judge of ride quality in that realm unfortunately. I hope this helps?

___This is probably the only place the Chevrolet Silverado HD’s had an edge (slightly softer ride) while loaded but they rolled so much during the 10,000 # 4 to 6% grade tow-off I would take the Super Duty’s chassis tuning over it any day of the week.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

xcel

03-10-2010, 05:23 PM

Hi All:

___A terrible pic I know :rolleyes:

___While approaching OK from the Texas panhandle on I-40, the rain began and than a rolling cloud bank reared up. While I was battling winds directly from the south ranging from 5 to 20 mph from before Winslow, AZ all the way through Texas, now this thing shows up and its coming out of the South East :mad: I had about 200-miles of this before stopping at a gas station on the Will Rogers Turnpike in OK for the night.

2011 Ford Super Duty – Weather was challenging at best :(

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/Driving_in_the_Cloud_Bank.jpg

___I could only see between 2 and 4 center lane markers and was holding the Super Duty’s TC locked up at 41-mph. At that speed, I was over driving my headlights and I was being passed by 18-wheeler after 18-wheeler driving way beyond theirs!

2011 Ford Super Duty at a Missouri Rest Area

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/Truck_Parking.jpg

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/Truck_Parking_Anyone_-_Collage.jpg
Trucks to the front, cars to the back :)

___While at this Rest Area, I was fortunate to speak at length with the Wal-Mart driver. I thanked him and his entire company for their truck driver training and the 6 to 7-second back rule vs. what most drivers are doing on the roads. We talked about tailgating car drivers, truck drivers and our experiences in the larger urban centers around the country. I wish I had taken out my note pad and snapped a pic of the driver as it was truly a professional discussion between two safety advocates!

___Good Luck

___Wayne

xcel

03-10-2010, 06:36 PM

Hi All:

___Time for the 2011 Ford Super Duty’s second fill in St. Clair, MO.

2011 Ford Super Duty – Second Fill Details

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/Second_Fill_Collage.jpg
29.2 mpg on the aFCD - 740.9 miles Trip A - 0-miles DTE (actually, 13 miles beyond DTE ;))
and Trip B only goes to 999.9 miles for some reason on the older Information Display???

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/Second_Fill_Top_Off_Collage.jpg
21.119 gallons of Diesel + 5.50 gallons of B99 Biodiesel = 26.619 gallons to top off.
740.9 miles/26.619 gallons = 27.833 mpg.

___I drove a bit beyond 0 miles DTE believing I had over 1.5 gallons of fuel left at Bingo fuel. Remember the last fill only took 26.7 gallons to top off in the Super Duty’s 28-gallon rated capacity tank. Whether that includes the filler neck is unknown? In addition, Adam said it has an ~ 1.5 to 2.0 gallon reserve.

___Another data point is the Power Stroke equipped Super Duty is supposed to have one or two fuel run-out protections systems. If you did inadvertently run dry, the protection system would shut down before damage and you lost prime. Either way, I can bet there is at least another 1-gallon beyond 0-miles DTE.

___I also spilled a few ounces of B99 unfortunately as I poured a bit too fast :(

___Good Luck

___Wayne

npauli

03-10-2010, 10:51 PM

Hi Rich:

___Surprisingly, the 4x4 had a very compliant ride and I had the tires pressed up to 75 psi too!

___I suspect although I did not confirm this (in other words, a WAG on my part ), the 2011 Super Duty has dual rate springs as I would have thought this thing would have ridden like a Pogo stick with an absolutely minimal load and tires pressed up to near MAX sidewall. It did not and in fact, I have driven many cars that had a worse ride while driving down the Interstate.

I didn't look at the front, but the rear looked like this:
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/500/medium/rear_springs.jpg

I'd imagine the springs get gradually stiffer as it's loaded, and more of the top two leaf springs are supported by the forklift-looking bottom piece.

xcel

03-10-2010, 11:36 PM

Hi All:

___Some short Vid clips for you to enjoy ;) Although it took me all evening to put them together… I am still learning this ULead Studio product and it’s a bear :ccry:

http://www.youtube.com/v/g5Qjirjznx8&hl=en&fs=1http://www.youtube.com/v/MIwQHFn8Nj4&hl=en_US&fs=1
6,000’ climb from Gilbert, AZ to Flagstaff, AZ at 26.7 mpg____25,000 pounds including the Dodge Cummins towed off-road.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

xcel

03-11-2010, 01:55 AM

Hi All:

___Last fill of the 2011 Ford Super Duty in Gurnee, IL.

2011 Ford Super Duty – Final Fill Details

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/2011_Super_Duty_-_Last_Fill_Collage1.jpg
31.1 mpg over 450.9 miles and 359 miles DTE.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/2011_Super_Duty_-_Last_Fill_Collage2.jpg
450.9 miles on 14.706 gallons = 30.661 mpg.

___Hopefully this gives an idea as to how tough and long it takes to top off the Super Duty. Of this second group of pics showing the two top offs, top off number one was taken at 12:51:10. The second top off pic was taken at 01:01:06 or 10-minutes later and after I added yet another .752 gallons to top it off again! She stayed in the filler neck on the second one ;)

___And the totals?

http://www.cleanmpg.com/garage/images/3384.png
1,907 miles on 68.094 gallons of std. Diesel
and B99 mixed to ~ B20 = 28.005 mpgUS.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

southerncannuck

03-11-2010, 09:41 AM

When I look at the cost of a fill-up, I start shaking. That thing is a lot bigger than a Fit. now, if only Ford could use this technology in a small car.

ksstathead

03-11-2010, 09:56 AM

I'm thinking the Fit would have yielded close to 60 mpg vs 28, but getting ~50% x little car mileage in a workhorse is phenomenal.

Taliesin

03-11-2010, 05:36 PM

When I look at the cost of a fill-up, I start shaking...

So do I...

The Ram has a 35 gallon tank, and gets 15 mpg on gas (12 on E85) when I am not towing....

Now think of it when i am towing the boat and have to fill that too...

Up to 35 gallons of E85 (when towing I get the same FE), and up to 50 gallons of regular gas for tha boat.

I was really hurting when the gas prices came close to $4 (and the local stations limited you to $100 of fuel).

xcel

03-12-2010, 09:22 AM

Hi Southerncannuck:

___Remember the initial discussion regarding the reason for the Ford Super Duty? This is a work truck and I would hope those that would consider one would only do so if they need this kind of capability. Driving a monster like this back and forth to work with no need to tow 10,000 + pounds moving equipment and gear from place to place would be a huge and costly mistake. For those meeting this criteria however, they will not only receive a truck capable of darn near impossible capability but decent FE while doing so. I only mentioned the Fit when it came to the emissions, not as a direct comparison by any means. I hope that helps explain my reason for including it in this thread. I'm thinking the Fit would have yielded close to 60 mpg vs 28, but getting ~50% x little car mileage in a workhorse is phenomenal.
___Ksstathead, I believe you hit the nail on the head! I suspect the Fit would have pulled an easy 60 mpg on the trip back with the Super Duty being able to do a lot more when called upon to do so.

___And a little something different… Chris Brewer, the Super Duty Chief Engineer (the Big Kahuna) asked me how the Super Duty received such great FE during the FE Challenge Award presentation. I said something stupid like “I threw out a parachute and grabbed the wind” … I am not so good at off-the-cuff remarks in front of a crowd as you can tell :rolleyes:

___When I got home, I sent him the following as to why the Ford Super Duty received such excellent FE:

2011 Ford Super Duty – World’s first Diesel Hybrid P/U ;)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/Super_Duty_Diesel_Hybrid.jpg
Before - After.

___Yesterday morning, I headed out to attend the monthly meeting of the Midwest Automobile Media Association in the Western Suburbs of Chicago and took the Super Duty along for the ride… Buick had a pretty good presentation with the Marketing lead of Buick giving the run down on the LaCrosse and Regal. Beautiful cars and relatively inexpensive but GM chose 181 HP and 29 highway vs. 161 HP and maybe 32 highway from the DI 2.4L… Ok, enough of that.

___After the meeting, I asked Jill Ciminillo of the Chicago Sun Times to give her quick appraisal of the seating ergonomics. The reason why I asked Jill to hop in is that she is 4’-11” tall and this was a really big truck.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/Jill_C_with_the_Super_Duty.jpg
Jill and the 2011 Ford Super Duty.

___I am paraphrasing her running commentary but it went something like this…

With the side steps, getting into the truck is ok. With the seat adjusted (well forward and up), my feet dangle from the seat and would never touch the floor if it were not for my heels.

With the gas and brake pedal adjustment moved all the way forward towards the driver, the reach to the wheel, controls and pedals is good.

Getting out with the controls and seat adjusted for my height was not the best but not the worst either. About average actually. Without the side steps however, it would be impossible.
___On my way to the meeting, it was raining most of the way with a 10 mph headwind in 41 to 45 degree temps. This Southern driven leg yielded a pretty darn healthy 33 mpg to the CATA (Chicago Automobile Trade Association) parking lot. On the way home, I finally was able to experience a tail wind of the same magnitude. Temps had climbed to 59 degrees (48 degree low as I closed in on the Lake – Michigan that is) and off I went. And the trucks aFCD kept climbing and climbing and climbing ;)

2011 Ford Super Duty – Who needs a FE challenge to receive great FE?

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/35_0_mpg_over_96_4_mile_Drive.JPG
35.0 mpg over a 96.4 mile RT drive.

___How in the heck can this truck do this???

___Good Luck

___Wayne

npauli

03-12-2010, 12:02 PM

Q.___How in the heck can this truck do this???

A. Ford Press Release (http://www.ford.com/about-ford/news-announcements/press-releases/press-releases-detail/pr-2011-ford-fseries-super-duty-power-32195)

Basically, they cared about FE. I'm guessing some of the biggest FE improvements are from:

1) The driver
2) The tall ratios + low speed lockup + low end torque that let you run so low.
3) The rest is the sum of a bunch of smaller improvements, as detailed in the press release

For what it's worth, I bet you could get similar numbers from my truck too. But the Ford is still remarkable for doing it with an engine that meets much stricter emissions standards and has significantly more HP & torque

xcel

03-12-2010, 12:03 PM

Hi All:

___Southerncannuck, just making sure I am explaining this correctly and maybe the following will do just that?

___Having a bit of fun :)

2011 Ford Super Duty Crew Cab vs. 2010 Toyota Prius Cage Match - America's most fuel efficient HD truck vs. most fuel efficient car

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/Super_Duty_vs_Prius.jpg
2011 Super Duty chained up to a 2010 Prius: Who will win?

Make & Model|HP|Torque (lb-ft.)|Towing Cap (pounds)|Weight (pounds)|Passenger Volume (cu. ft.)|Luggage Capacity (cu. Ft.)|Cd|Max Highway FE (mpgUS)
2011 Ford Super Duty Crew Cab|390|735|14,000|~ 7,600|133.5|64.4 to the side rails|.40|35
2010 Toyota Prius|134|~ 200|0|~ 3,000|93.7|21.6|.25|70

___Good Luck

___Wayne

xcel

03-12-2010, 12:05 PM

Hi Nathan:

___I know how they did it and there is even more that has not been released (see the basic spec sheet layout above for yet another 1 percenter) but am having fun with the write-up ;)

___Good Luck

___Wayne

xcel

03-12-2010, 01:33 PM

Hi All:

___And some steady state “leave it up to the truck” Fuel Economy data…

___Winds were out of the South East at about 10 mph so the North Bound legs had a right rear quartering tail wind and the southbound legs had a left front quartering headwind. It was night, raining on and off and temps ranged from 43 to 45 degrees F.

___The route was a straight North/South section of I-94 from I-94 and Highway C (near the IL/WI border) all the way up to North Milwaukee, WI. In addition, I had the NAVI displaying elevation for a more accurate FE segment.

___This 35 mile segment of Interstate includes quite a few undulating elevation delta’s of ~ 50’ with a maximum of ~ 125’ so it is not particularly flat but is not a climb or descent in any of its two directions either.

___The Truck was essentially empty other than me with the tires pressed up to 75 psi and the tonneau cover installed.

___What I did was accelerate to 50, 55, 60, 65 or 70 mph and set the CC. I would record the current elevation while resetting the aFCD and let the truck go. After between 4 and 10-miles when I drove past a point where the initial elevation was equivalent to the current elevation, I would record the FE displayed. I ran this gauntlet twice in each direction at the various speeds and averaged the NB and SB legs revealing the following:

2011 Ford Super Duty Crew Cab – Steady State (Cruise Control) Fuel Economy Results

Direction of travel|Speed (mph)|Average FE (mpgUS)
NB|50|28.8
SB|50|27.7
||
NB|55|27.2
SB|55|26.5
||
NB|60|25.6
SB|60|24.9
||
NB|65|23.1
SB|65|21.6
||
NB|70|22.3
SB|70|20.0

___For the average driver with their Super Duty setup similarly and while driving down a somewhat flat elevation Interstate under CC, the following should be readily repeatable.
50-mph: 28.3 mpg

55-mph: 26.8 mpg

60-mph: 25.3 mpg

65-mph: 22.3 mpg

70-mph: 21.1 mpg
___Remember that this is is the trucks OEM display with actual FE ~ 1 to 1.5 mpg below that shown on the aFCD.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

xcel

03-12-2010, 02:45 PM

Hi All:

___What they say is true, Dogs really do love trucks!

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/Dogs_Love_Trucks.jpg
Take me for a ride please :)

___Good Luck

___Wayne

xcel

03-12-2010, 02:49 PM

Hi All:

___And of course saying goodbye as the 2011 Ford Super Duty was being driven off so some other journalist can go have fun ;)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/Saying_Goodbye.jpg
Saying goodbye to a trusted friend.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

seftonm

03-12-2010, 04:29 PM

Hi Wayne, wish I had thought to ask this earlier. Did you come across any places selling DEF (urea), and did you see a price for it if you did?

Looks like GM is putting up a fight with their new Duramax. The info was recently released and they say 397 hp and 765 lb-ft, while being about 11% more efficient than the old engine. But their urea tank is quite small for some reason and is only worth 5k miles between refills.

xcel

03-12-2010, 04:57 PM

Hi Mike:

___While having the Tonneau cover installed at Sorensen Ford in Glendale, AZ, I was told DEF costs $9.83 per gallon. My local Ford dealer says it is $30 to $40 per 5-gallon container but they do not yet have any in stock.

___I asked at both the Shell in Adrian, TX border and the Mobil in St. Clair, MO. Neither had DEF in stock but the Shell station employee said they had some on the shelf a few days earlier but did not have any currently.

___In bulk, it is about $1.00 per gallon with an expected price of $3 to $5 per once it is widely distributed.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

xcel

03-12-2010, 05:13 PM

Hi All:

___Ford is still in the process of providing a number of specs for the spec sheet write-up. I am still missing a few items but here are some details that are pretty astounding when compared to a car.

2011 Super Duty Interior Passenger Cu. Ft. volume:
Reg Cab - 65.9
Super Cab - 113.3
Crew Cab - 133.5
2011 Super Duty Bed Cu. Ft. volume:
Short box/6.75 ft- 64.4 cu. Ft
Long box/8 ft - 77.4 cu. ft.
___I had the feeling that Crew Cab interior volume was large (notice my 120 cu. ft. est.) but 133.5 cu. ft.? This is huge and I know of no car having that large of a passenger volume/interior!!!

___Good Luck

___Wayne

ILAveo

03-12-2010, 07:09 PM

Hi All:

___The 2011 Ford Super Duty adventure continues :)

.....

To have to work again and again to bring the aFCD back from the hit is really frustrating after a DPF Regen event.

___Central, MO is a Hypermiling playground as there are 50 to 200’ deltas again and again and again… Yes, Basic and intermediate DWL, NICE-On’s and FAS’s for the long ones.

......

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Did you use a little higher throttle setting up the hills? And do you think that maybe helped keep the DPF blown out?

xcel

03-13-2010, 12:17 AM

Hi Rich:

___You have a keen eye. That first tank only had one DPF regen and I am going to assume it had everything to do with the mountains. From Gilbert, AZ, through Phoenix and up to Flagstaff was almost 6,000’ and it was up again, down again all the way up. After Flagstaff, there was a loss of almost 2,000’ with quite a few tough climbs in between so the higher engine output surely had something to do with the minimal DPF regens.

___I still have to do the calc’s but I only had one regen at about 350 miles out with all the city driving (accelerations from a stop) that I did yesterday.

___In any case, I believe it is best to take the DPF regens every 250 + miles and grab the big numbers in between than to run a little hotter with the lower FE and a little longer between regens. When doing the 60, 65 and 70 mph, the 6.7L was doing a lot more work than at 50 so I suspect the continuous regen promised would keep that DPF clean at the higher speeds. Towing any weight would run a lot more fuel and incur much higher EGT's which would surely help as well?

___I also went out last night onto some local roads in and around NE IL/SE WI and with our spring thaw comes frost heaves and pot holes. The ride got rough real quick so you were correct again in that this thing when not loaded was rough. Not pogo stick rough but it was not car like by any means. While on the Interstate however, the larger diameter wheels and relatively smooth pavement really made the F250 Super Duty ride nice.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

xcel

03-13-2010, 04:33 AM

Hi All:

___I have the 2011 Ford Super Duty Album up and you can view the slideshow through the following:

2011 Ford Super Duty – F250 through F550 and the interiors (http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/slideshow.php?photo=14380&cat=648)

___A sampling…

2011 Ford Super Duty

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/648/F550_Railroad.jpg
F550 in the rail yard

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/648/F450_Power_Truck.jpg
F450 Power Trouble Truck

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/648/F250_Landscape.jpg
F250 Excavation Truck

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/648/Super_Duty_Interior_Collage2.jpg
Super Duty Interiors

___Good Luck

___Wayne

m37charlie

03-14-2010, 03:51 PM

[QUOTE=ksstathead;257043]If they can design it so the emissions cannot be modded, this could be revolutionary.

[QUOTE]

That's a good thing?
Sounds bad to me.

Charlie

xcel

03-14-2010, 05:01 PM

Hi M37:

___Welcome to CleanMPG!

___The reason why Kssstathead mentioned the lock down of the emissions controls is that so many past diesel trucks have had their DOC and DPF’s removed, chipped and let loose to emit literally hundreds of times the exhaust emissions that the trucks were certified for. There are quite a few US citizens that believe cleaner air for all is better than one guys 100 HP increase for bragging rights mainly :(

___The 2011 Ford Super Duty Super Duty Spec Sheet (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29973) is up.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

pcs0snq

03-15-2010, 08:47 PM

___In bulk, it is about $1.00 per gallon with an expected price of $3 to $5 per once it is widely distributed.

OK Cool that's 1/2 the story.
Any idea how much the 6.7 uses??
I seemed to of missed that

thanks

xcel

03-15-2010, 09:10 PM

Hi Paul:

___The DEF tank is 5 gallons on the regular cabs and 6 on the chassis cabs IIRC? Maybe 3 to 4 gallons of DEF per oil change at 7,500 miles?

___The FPL guys used ~ 75% between oil changes and with any light duty work, probably another 1/3 knocked off of that.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

xcel

03-16-2010, 02:49 PM

Hi All:

___The B20 use Oil Analysis is in. Not much to say as it came back good. Nathan came up with some really good questions which we sent back to Ford and hopefully we will hear back soon…

2011 Ford Super Duty – Short term B20 Oil Analysis (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/downloads.php?do=file&id=79)

___Paul, I remembered right… For a change ;) Ford confirmed to me this morning that the DEF tank capacity is 5.1 gallons for the P/U’s and 6.1 gallons for the Chassis Cabs.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

pcs0snq

03-16-2010, 07:31 PM

Thanks Wayne, Just trying to understand the cost of the extra consumable
Looks like about 50 cents per 1000 miles more or less at the $1/gal bulk cost. Is that about right?

I need to get hold of our Fleet dude. Maybe they will let me come mess with it when it is in the shop for regular service. PM me if you know the year they work out of or a contact name.

xcel

03-16-2010, 09:35 PM

Hi Paul:

___You could probably track these crews down better than I if you want to pursue.

___Here are two links showing the (2) FPL trucks and their cumulating totals…

2011 F-250 XL 4x4 Crew Cab - Prototype (http://www.fordvehicles.com/2011superduty/?p=fieldwork&rt=250xl)

2011 F-250 XLT 4x2 Crew Cab - Prototype (http://www.fordvehicles.com/2011superduty/?p=fieldwork&rt=250xlt)

___Since these are prototypes in the field, FPL may or may not be paying for the oil and subsequent DEF changes. When I worked at ComEd, the 6.0L Power Stroke equipped Super Duty’s we drove were serviced at a local shop so again I will assume that FPL would probably be paying closer to the $9.00 per gallon rate than the $1.00 per gallon rate in bulk? 7,500 miles and maybe 4 gallons of DEF for $36.00 or so.

___In addition, the 6.7 L Power Stroke has a 13 quart crankcase so oil changes at $6.00 per quart are not going to be inexpensive. I paid $4.70 per quart for Mobil1 synthetic in a 5-gallon container.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

xcel

03-17-2010, 10:55 AM

Hi All:

___HP and Torque curves for the 2011 Ford Super Duty…

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/SuperDuty_6_7L_V8_Diesel.jpg
Regular, Super and Crew Cabs

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/ChassisCab_6_7L_V8_Diesel.jpg
Chassis Cab

___Good Luck

___Wayne

xcel

03-17-2010, 11:49 AM

Hi All:

___The DPF Regeneration Fuel Consumption estimates are complete with a large number of assumptions.

___A “Cleaning Exhaust Filter” message would appear for a second or two in the information display but there was no “Cleaning Exhaust Filter complete” message. I would watch the aFCD fall and when it stopped or when I saw my first uptick, I assumed the DPF Regeneration was complete. In addition, I assumed I would have maintained the current FE shown on the aFCD through the event.

___The real error was induced when guessing the miles out when the DPF regeneration completed however. With the number of DPF regenerations over 1900 + miles, the average should be pretty close to actual gallons consumed through a DPF regeneration with the final gallons consumed due solely to the regeneration.

___Other items to consider. This was an extremely lightly loaded up engine and with higher speeds or loads, the DPF regeneration occurrence should not happen nearly as often. The climb out from Gilbert, AZ at 1,200’ ASL to Flagstaff at > 7,000’ ASL had the 6.7L working and thus the reason I suspect the first regen did not occur until over 450 miles from last fill. IN addition, the truck was delivered to me with almost 1/3 of a tank consumed and this was from the Ford handlers. These guys are not prone to drive with a soft foot by any means so let us again “assume” that there was over 700 miles before the first regen occurred and only after I started descending with the lightest engine loads a Ford Super Duty will ever experience. Trust me on this ;) From Flagstaff, I was either descending or driving across undulating but flat terrain (large delta’s but overall the same elevation start to finish) across much of Eastern, OK, MO and of course flat as a pancake IL.

Location|DPF Regen Start (Trip A miles)|DPF Regen Finsh (Trip A miles)|FCD Initial (mpg)|FCD Final (mpg)|Gallons Consumed Initial (calculated)|Gallons Consumed Final (calculated)|Assumed Gallons Consumed Final (Calculated and w/out DPF Regen)|Estimated DPF Regen Fuel Consumption (gallons)

Albuquerque, NM|452|464|29.9|29.1|15.12|15.94|15.52|.42
Amarillo, TX|55|69|29.0|24.5|1.90|2.82|2.38|.44
Oklahoma City, OK|254|266|28.3|27.2|8.98|9.78|9.40|.38
OK/MO border|493|506|28.4|27.9|17.36|18.13|17.82|.31
St. Louis, MO|54|62|34.2|28.1|1.58|2.21|1.81|.40
Joliet, IL|368|380|31.5|30.5|11.68|12.46|12.06|.40

___The approximate average fuel consumed during each DPF Regen Event given the above appears to be = .39 gallons. This amount of diesel fuel is being consumed solely for DPF regeneration and not for propulsion.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

pcs0snq

03-17-2010, 05:46 PM

Thanks Wayne. So you out of the Power Gen business? Retire?

Taliesin

03-17-2010, 06:15 PM

While this could very well replace my Ram and improve in every area...

Can we get something a bit smaller?
I only need a 6000# tow capacity.

This truck could easily handle that and still get better FE (and comfort) than the Ram, but an F150 with a diesel around 4.0L to 4.7L would do the job just fine and get even better FE.

Can we? Please?

xcel

03-17-2010, 07:06 PM

Hi Paul:

___That was long ago...

___Taliesin, I asked and Ford said no through the intermediate term :( The $7,800 up charge is why according to the marketing guys. The upcoming F-150 will incorporate an EcoBoosted 3.5L and 6-speed AT which should give a 25 + highway rating with 7,500 + pounds of towing cap and that "should" best the Super Duty w/ the 6.7L Power Stroke.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

npauli

03-17-2010, 09:11 PM

Can we get something a bit smaller?
I only need a 6000# tow capacity.

Mahindra's trying to bring one here, but they keep getting delayed.

I agree with you. I bunch of the pickup market don't need to tow 14k or put 2 tons in the bed, but still care about fuel economy. There's just not much available in 1/2 ton and smaller trucks. Even the GM hybrid is no more efficient than a 3/4 ton diesel, and has half the payload & towing for about the same price.

kngkeith

03-18-2010, 04:06 PM

Hi Paul:

___The DEF tank is 5 gallons on the regular cabs and 6 on the chassis cabs IIRC? Maybe 3 to 4 gallons of DEF per oil change at 7,500 miles?

Wow. That's about a 1.2% consumption rate at 25 mpg. Much, much better than the original estimates of 3-4% for class 8s. I did some searching and Cummins is now saying about 2% for their medium and heavy duty engines.

Very encouraging

Keith

xcel

03-18-2010, 04:37 PM

Hi Keith:

___Remember that the Engineering team is already working on designs out through 2013/2014. While I have no confirmation statement, I had the distinct feeling this team was working on DPF's that had even lower regenerative consumption for future upgrades or models. No statements regarding this but subtle body language clues when this question was asked.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

xcel

03-19-2010, 04:18 AM

Hi All:

___A quick rundown on some of the first evening’s discussions, quotes and presentations…

*************
*************

Brian Rathsburg, Ford’s marketing manager for its Super Duty truck line began with this:

“Does the Duper Duty deliver in the real world at the end of the day.”

“This is the most tested engine we have ever produced with > 10,000,000 miles of testing.”

“The Customer prototypes have been out for over 6-months for a video test program.”

“You are not competing with Chevy or Dodge; you are competing with 18-wheelers that pull the big stuff.”

“The few F-Series sites have twice the members yet only 1/5 the number of sites as the Mustang forums as an example”… (I may have screwed this quote up :rolleyes:)

*************
*************

I believe the next guy that spoke was Danny Simpson of TexOp Construction. He was given an F350 4x4 Crew Cab Prototype:

“I am seeing 20 mpg while my 09 was giving just 12.5 mpg!”

*************
*************

Then Gary Reynolds of Reynolds Asphalt and Construction spoke. He was given an F550 4x4 Chassis Cab Prototype:

“I am experiencing a 20 to 25% improvement in FE over the truck it replaced and it weighs 1,000 pounds more!”

*************
*************

___Good Luck

___Wayne

xcel

03-19-2010, 04:35 AM

Hi All:

___Continuing…

Chris Brewer, Ford’s Super Duty Chief Engineer had a few things to say about the Super Duty as well…

“What’s new? Best in class Fuel Economy, HP, Torque, conventional towing, fifth wheel towing and payload!”

“The new Console allows 2-laptops, to be stored and includes 6-cup holders.”

“Lockable under rear seat storage is available.”

“110V Inverter is placed in the rear seat area.”

“4.2” productivity screen”

“Mobile Office”

“Ultimate towing confidence at almost 3X’s the weight of the truck!”

“The truck is controlling the trailer vs. the other way around"

“Segment and Industry first 5th wheel gooseneck trailer tow prep package. It costs just $375 vs. some after market groups charging upwards of $1,000 or more!” <-- There has been some real junk installed screwing up tucks around the world. I saw the pics :rolleyes:

“Segment first spray in bed liner.”

“Best off-road tech: Hill Descent Control and E-Locker by a push button/knob.“

“Full transfer case and Fuel Tank skid plate is standard with the off-road package.”

“Regarding safety, full complement of air bags in all vehicles + roll stability control on single rear wheel vehicles and Trailer Sway control stnadard on all SRW and DRW P/U's.” <-- This was really new and I confirmed the full complement of front, side and side curtains afterwards.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

xcel

03-19-2010, 04:45 AM

Hi All:

___Continuing…

Doug Scott, Ford’s Truck Group Marketing Manager added a few more items about the Super Duty…

“F-Series owner base is over 9-million strong.”

“The F-Series dominant position is getting stronger.”

“For Fleet Commercial, the Super Duty has over 60% of the market share over both GM and Dodge.”

“This is a business of niches with one common thread. It is a tool that has to perform and we needed to deliver a more productive tool!”

Value

“No increase in price for the 6.7L diesel.” <-- Referring to the 6.4L upcharge of $7,850 over its gas counterpart, not that the diesel had no upcharge.

“No increase in price for the 250 XLT 4x4 Crew Cab.”

“The 550 XL Reg Chassis Cab has just a $550 increase.”

___Good Luck

___Wayne

xcel

03-19-2010, 05:00 AM

Hi All:

___And finally, some information that Adam Gryglak, Super Duty Diesel Chief Engineer provided…

“The 6.7L motor is 160 pounds < than the outgoing 6.4L.”

“EGR flow is 30 to 50 + %. It is in that ballpark.” <-- A higher flow than I would have expected given the excellent FE?

Emissions Controls

“2007 to 2010, the DOC is the same. Converts HC and CO to inert H20 and CO2.” <-- Nothing new here.

“For the system as a whole, we have achieved an 83% reduction in NOx.”

“From the engine alone, a 50% reduction in PM and a 50 to 70% reduction in NOx.”

“You will make it 7,500 miles before needing a DEF refill.”

“5.6 gallon on average reservoir has a pre-chamber that heats and melts frozen DEF if its below 12 degrees F.”

“At low DEF levels, only lower speeds allowed. When 0% DEF is in the Reservoir, the truck will only idle.”

DPF Regens

“10 to 15-minutes but very low fuel use.”

Reliability testing

“0 breakage on Prototypes.”

___Good Luck

___Wayne

xcel

03-19-2010, 05:07 AM

Hi All:

___That about does it for my day/evening notes from Day 1. I did not have a note pad as I thought it was going to be dinner with the team members. It turned out to be a light Technical and Marketing presentation. I was unprepared for this and within 5-minutes of the start of the presentation beginning with Brian Rathsburg, I was scrambling for a pen and paper. I was loaned a pen and a single sheet of 8x11 from another lady journalist on which I posted these notes.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

xcel

03-21-2010, 03:20 AM

Hi All:

I can add a bit about another member of the Ford Super Duty project who was an integral part of the team moving the program forward. Although I had no time to prepare any Questions for a proper Q&A (I was offered this interview opportunity just 5-minutes before I began putting the pen to notepad ;)), I was fortunate to have a quick discussion over dinner with Tim Ogilive, Ford’s Super Duty Vehicle Energy Supervisor. Thanks Donna :)

From a quick and dirty upload of my notes, the following should give a quick overview as to who Tim is and his role in making the all-new Super Duty the most fuel efficient HD truck on the road today.

Tim actually started his career at GM back in 87 beginning as a reliability Engineer and then worked his way into the Traction Control group as a System calibration engineer.

In 92, Ford was hiring engine calibration engineers with room for advancement and Tim jumped at the chance.

He began working on the 4.9L I6 for the F-150 and Econoline Vans.

In 2000 – 2001, he began working with the Explorer program team optimizing its performance, Fuel Economy and NVH. Even back then, Ford was concerned with Fuel Economy due to the then current CAFÉ standards overhanging the entire company. To that end, he was involved in the design of a taller 3.55 rear differential and adding chin spoilers to improve the Explorers aerodynamics.

Because Ford was just ahead of the CAFÉ standards of the time, the Explorer team was having weekly meetings on ways to improve its overall fuel economy. In short order, Tim began leading the meetings and thus became the Supervisor of Fuel Economy Improvement not just for the Explorer but worked across multiple Ford vehicles in search of the “1 percenters”. Ford describes a 1 percenter as a number of small advances becoming a big advance when they are all added up. This is well before the customer takes possession of his or her keys.
“We helped every car group and with the help of upper management, there was buy in.”
With his initial supervisory experience, he began work with a new group called the PMT or Powertrain Management Team where he learned the powertrains nuts and bolts from the production line all the way to the showroom floor.
“I learned how to prioritize and how to bring all the hardware that goes into the powertrain together properly and on-time.”
In 06, he moved again to become Fuel Economy Engineering Supervisor (lead Fuel Economy Engineer) for the future redesign of the F150.

From the F150 program, it was a natural progression to help with the upcoming 2011 Super Duty redesign. In this role, he was responsible for not just the final fuel economy capability after the near final design went to prototype but how each piece of the project including the weight, electrical draw, climate control, powertrain, chassis and interior body parts came together to meet a given fuel economy metric while still meeting the initial base performance targets. In other words, he wore quite few different hats as the 2011 Super Duty was being developed.
“We looked at almost every single part. It was just over a year ago today when we had completed weighing over 90% of the Super Duty’s components just to make sure the truck met its weight targets,” expounded Tim. “One ounce here, two ounces there and you could end up adding a few hundred pounds!”
He mentioned the exhaust system as just one example. Given an Advanced Design Group within Ford (Ford’s Skunk Works guys) were involved with this design, together, Tim and the team saw a 30 to 40 pound savings from the clean sheet to its final design. I remember Tim smiling after that story and you could tell he was really proud of this accomplishment.
“If you do not watch every part, you could gain a few hundred pounds.”
On the electrical side, Tim even went so far as to describe the electrical power savings of the LED’s incorporated into the dual rear wheel Super Duty’s fender wells. As most here know, talk of saving a few milliamps through LED incorporation makes me smile as well :)

We then discussed aerodynamics and this is yet another area where the term “Team” comes to mind. Tim and his group wanted to test an 11 Super Duty in the Wind Tunnel. This had never been done at Ford before as there was really no need in the past. Having said that, Tim wanted to do everything he could to make the 2011 Super Duty all that it could be and pushed the idea of doing some aerodynamic work on the Super Duty up the chain. Thanks to the strong support of Chris Brewer, the Super Duty Chief engineer, Tim and his group received some very expensive Wind Tunnel time to put the Super Duty through its paces. With a final Cd of just .40 from a truck with a front end that appears as if it could burrow through a mountain and a rear bed that has about the same aerodynamic qualities of a parachute, the improvements made were not only impressive but worth every dollar spent!
In conclusion, Tim mentioned the following: “I work with a lot of really good people. Managers that are good at putting people together to make the tradeoff’s necessary to receive the best Fuel Economy.”
You have to admit, the Ford Super Duty team created a “Hell of a Truck” when it comes to the high fuel economy capability with low emissions. Along with those two important attributes, every single Super Duty receives an almost obscene level of towing capacity, large payload capacity, excellent ride and handling, what appears to be great reliability out of the box thanks to the 10 + Million miles of lab, on the road and end user prototype testing in every conceivable environment plus incorporates the standard safety features we demand in our cars (front, side, side curtains, Stability and Traction Control) and placing them for the very first time in ¾ and 1-Ton HD trucks. And this is only the basics considering all the other features either standard or available with the range of Super Duty’s we have discussed at CleanMPG to date.

Tim, my hats off to you and the rest of the Super Duty team. Well done indeed.

Good Luck

Wayne

Carpetride

03-21-2010, 03:40 PM

Hi all, I'm new around here and have been watching this thread since about page 2. I'm quiet impressed with the results you have achieved in driving this across country.

I'm considering the 2011 Superduty as a replacement to my current 1/2 truck as my tow needs are changing. Curious if you would have any insight into the ability to get the fithwheel option on a short bed 3/4 ton? I've seen it mentioned quite a bit on the long beds.

xcel

03-21-2010, 04:25 PM

Hi Carpetride:

___Welcome to CleanMPG!

___I am not a 5th wheel tow guy by any means and my first opportunity to drive a Truck while doing so was on the off-road quarry course (watch the second video I produced) when I drove the F550 chassis cab towing a gooseneck trailer with the RAM 3500 Chassis cab on its deck and an 8 + ton boulder on the Ram’s deck.

___The on-road 25,000 pound tow was a Ford CDL driver behind the wheel of the F450 DRW. The F450 fifth wheel with DRW (a dually) was a short bed box Crew Cab and it pulled great. The Towing and Payload Cap of a short vs. a long bed are not really that much different when looking at the specs (see the files download link above for the details) but maybe a long bed hauls better in wind or something? I do not know if there is a difference or not between the two bed types actually?

___Both beds on all the Super Duty Configurations (F-250 on up) include the frame reinforcement and the $400 fifth wheel hitch is practically a gimme by comparison to what some of the upfitters have done to these poor trucks in the past. Complete speculation on my part but I believe Ford wanted to move away from the chance of any lawsuits with these upfitters welding on the chassis and installing a piss poor after market fifth wheel by comparison to Ford's OEM built–in solution. Ford had poster pics of aftermarket installers fifth wheel install “work” and you would not want to haul a motorcycle trailer let alone a 20,000 pound fifth wheeler with some of the welds and poor quality install I saw in those pics. The built in OEM frame reinforcement solution and the $400 Reese/Ford fifth wheel receiver is not only a bargain but designed to take on a fifth wheel with no screwing around vs. the aftermarket stuff.

___Again, I am not a tow guy so please do some independent research at a knowledgeable Ford dealership before taking my word for what the configurations and capacity differences between a short bed and long bed are.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Carpetride

03-21-2010, 04:31 PM

Thank you for the quick reply! Generally the fifth wheel camper guys are worried about the distance between the cab and the camper during sharp turns. The shorter the bed the more likely you need a "slider" hitch which is more $$$. Good to see they are offering it on the short box as well...I require something that fits in my garage, living in the mid-south I got tired of chipping ice off the windows during the winters.

Looks like Ford did their homework on this one, I'm pretty certain they are gonna get me back as a customer.

xcel

03-24-2010, 05:44 PM

Hi All:

___Although I have a few more impressions of a behind the wheel review, this culmination will at least keep track of what has been uploaded so far…

March 17 - The B20 compatible, 2011 Ford Super Duty Power Stroke turbodiesel (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30082)

March 16 - Someone you should know… (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30038) - Al Bruck

March 14 - 2011 Ford Super Duty w/ the 6.7L Power Stroke Specifications (cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29973)

March 13 - Journalists Squeeze 2011 Ford Super Duty For Impressive Fuel Economy (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29955)

February 25 - 2011 Ford Super Duty leads HD trucks in capability and fuel economy! (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29548)

February 18 - Studying up on the 2011 Ford Super Duty… (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29364)

February 15 - Behind the scenes with Ford’s upcoming 2011 Ford Super Duty (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29545) - Doug Scott

February 9 - Early reports show that Ford’s 2011 Super Duty is a hit with the end user. (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29101)

September 16 - A few more details about Ford Truck’s upcoming 6.7L Power Stroke Diesel (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25049) - Adam Gryglak

___Good Luck

___Wayne

xcel

06-07-2010, 05:19 PM

Hi All:

I should have added this a bit ago but the Fifth wheel configuration is only available with the 8’ beds... I got confirmation of this key aspect during an online Super Duty Press Conference with Chris Brewer about a month ago.

Good Luck

Wayne

2011F250Lar

08-22-2010, 04:08 PM

Wayne,

Thanks for your posts regarding the new Super Duty.

I recently decided to replace my 1999 Ram 2500 (Cummins 5.9L). Your comments were useful in helping me decide on the 2011 Super Duty.

I do not consider myself to be a "hypermiler", but I do drive somewhat conservatively. And, I religiously calculate my mileage at each fill-up. I typically have achieved 23 to 24 mpg unloaded highway at average speeds of about 60 with my stock Dodge (main modifications were camper package and a limited slip rear end --- NO EPA stuff). Pulling a 9000 lb. conventional trailer the Ram delivered 14 to 18 mpg; pulling a 12,500 lb. 5th wheel, 12.5 to 14 mpg. Towing mileage is at about 55 mph highway, usually slightly hilly, and varies with wind speed and direction. Interestingly, with diesels, I have found mileage is affected more by wind resistance than weight.

When I take delivery of the new Super Duty, I plan on posting its mileage on this sight so others can have another reference point on its performance. Hopefully the Ford will do as well as the Cummins.

xcel

08-22-2010, 04:39 PM

Hi 2011 F250:

Welcome to CleanMPG and Thanks!

You should have no problem hitting the mid-20's at 60 mph and since we are all about CleanMPG, the emissions the Super Duty is emitting in some cases will be less than a car!

And while this was an unusual taste for CleanMPG members, it was one of the best drives we have had this year. It was as big as a house, could tow two of them and do so with the FE of a midsized car when driven lightly. It really amazed me given some of the numbers it allowed.

Driving over median's because "they were in the way" was kind of neat to do and something I could only do previously on the bikes. The Off-road 4x4 course Ford setup was mind boggling and fun as well. I thought the BMW X5d hill descent coming down a 15 degree slope was neat during the BMW Branding Event late last fall. The Ford Super Duty's system at 20 degree down angle was better and even easier to use just in case you are considering the 4x4 variant!

Finally, a family could live out of that truck for a week or two much easier than a car or SUV thanks in part to its very comfortable 133 cu. ft of interior space (I drove the Crew Cab), its large fuel tank and excellent FE for an almost 8,000 pound vehicle. If Ford had a 2x4 Crew, Super or Standard Cab Super Duty with the Power Stroke and needed it moved from the LA Press Fleet to the Chicago or NY Press Fleets, I would love to drive it again as I just know 30 mpg is just around the corner ;)

Good Luck with yours and I hope you enjoy it as much as I enjoyed the Super Duty’s w/ the Power Stroke’s during the Press Launch and the drive back to Chicago.

Wayne

2011F250Lar

09-09-2010, 08:38 PM

F 250 - Initial Impressions

Last week I took delivery of a 2011 F250 Super Cab rear wheel drive truck. Before getting into some initial mileage numbers, I have to comment on the physical truck.

http://www.cleanmpg,com/photos/data/2/medium/Sep_01-0005.JPG

The truck is mammoth, even as compared to the 1999 Quad Cab 2500 Dodge I traded. Though both trucks perform the same function with the same layout, the Ford is longer, taller and wider than the 1999 Dodge. In fairness, the Dodges have also grown since 1999 in response to continuing “best-in-class” competition between manufactures. Most striking is the Super Duty’s reminiscent of Detroit’s glory days of the 1950's chrome grill. Though your initial response to it may be that it is a bit “over the top”, it grows on you.

Ford’s build quality is first class. Fit and finish on this truck easily equals or exceeds Toyotas, Hondas and Acuras I’ve owned in the past. Everything is tight and parallel. I found only one very small (1/32nd of an inch) paint blemish in a very unnoticeable spot on the entire vehicle including the bed. There are no squeaks, rattles, etc. in the cab. In fact the cab is far, far more quiet than most cars including some very high end cars I’ve been in. The diesel engine is superbly quiet. Though large, this is a very comfortable extremely well built vehicle.

My first report covers only 222 miles, including 26 miles at pick-up. One of the first things I’m doing is calibrating the odometer to a GPS. Based on readings obtained thus far the odometer, and thus the average miles per gallon read out, understate actual results by about 2.3%. Mileage has been impressive even with varying speeds during the 1000 mile break in period. In one 39 mile 4 destinations, city shopping stop and go drive, the truck averaged 20.4 miles per gallon until it hit stop and stop school traffic. I watched the trip mpg read out plummet to 17.7 as I inched forward through 4 stop lights. Mileage had recovered to 18.9 mpg at the completion of that trip.

http://http://www.cleanmpg,com/photos/data/2/medium/Sep_01-0003.JPG

I filled the truck up after picking it up from the dealer and again after 162.8 miles. That fill up required 7.705 gallons, which was consistent with the instrument read out of 7.7 gallons. Average mpg was 21.13 (21.62 after adjusting for the odometer understatement) with varying speeds, mostly 50 to 60 mph, and some city stop and go driving.

Obviously, no hard conclusions should be drawn over such a short distance, but we’re off to a good start!

CW

xcel

05-20-2011, 08:35 AM

Hi All:

I had the chance to speak with a fleet 11 Super Duty user about the 11 Super Duty trucks and their capabilities while at Boston’s Logan airport late last week.

I saw an 11 F-550 w/ the 6.7L Power Stroke Stake Bed equipped with a 200 gallon tank, pump(s) and hoses pulling into one of the terminals. I walked up and spoke with the employee behind the wheel for about 10-minutes to get some insight into the duty cycle and if the workers were happy with it. He said they actually have (4) and most run 24/7. All four trucks were used as snow plows during the winter as well as a garbage dump on one, his stake bed was used for clearing ice from airplane wings, another was a simple dump body for hauling debris and I forgot how the fourth was configured. I saw those three trucks during my 1.5 hour ordeal at terminal C while waiting for a shuttle because you can spot them a quarter mile away with the Power Stroke Badging on the front quarter panel.

He said they have had no problems after 6-months of 24/7 operation and all of the guys really liked the comfortable ergonomics given how long they spend inside of them.

Wayne

PaleMelanesian

05-20-2011, 09:28 AM

Wayne, now that you've driven both, what are your thoughts about this truck vs the ecoboost? A friend who tows a 5th-wheel with his 03 super duty is wondering.

He has a Civic for around-town driving, thankfully.

xcel

05-20-2011, 10:30 AM

Hi Andrew:

It depends on the weight he has to tow. If it is under 8,500 pounds (max towable with the 3.15 rear end in the SuperCrew configuration which is the only one I would ever purchase), I would get the EcoBoost. If it is more… A lot more, the Super Duty w/ the 6.7L Power Stroke.

Where the Super Duty w/ the Power Stroke takes a hit in FE by comparison to the F-150 w/ the 3.5L EcoBoost is the DPF regenerations. Remember that we were driving a 4x4 of the Super Duty and only a 2WD F-150 w/ EcoBoost and both are ~ equivalent at their maximums if both were 4x4 or 2WD equipped.

In addition, the Power Stroke has a 12-quart sump so oil changes with the Diesel synthetic are not going to be inexpensive by any means.

The 11 Super Duty with the 6.7L Power Stroke is an extremely powerful, HD work truck meant for that exact purpose. The 11 F-150 w/ the 3.5L EcoBoost is an extremely powerful LD truck meant to do a lot of work but also built with the general consumer with more recreational drives in mind. If his duty cycle is the former, the Super Duty is the one to get. If it is the latter, the EcoBoost equipped F-150 would be my choice. Do try and convince him to purchase the 3.15 rear ratio w/ the EcoBoost as that is one of the keys to its excellent FE :)

Wayne

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