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View Full Version : Hybrids, flex-fuel cars not likely to impact energy use.


xcel
12-06-2006, 07:51 PM
It's very hard to imagine a world where oil prices stay at $50 a barrel, and we don't see a more aggressive introduction of advanced fuels and technology. (http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061206/BUSINESS01/612060325/1014)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/E85_Chevrolet_Avalanche.jpgJustin Hyde - Detroit Free Press - Dec. 6, 2006

E85 FFV’s are not the answer some may have thought.

WASHINGTON -- Many of the U.S. auto industry's environmental efforts, including plug-in hybrids and flexible-fuel vehicles, will have little affect on the nation's energy use or output of greenhouse gases if the latest government forecast of energy trends through 2030 holds true.

While sales of flexible-fuel vehicles are expected to rise, the U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) says E85 will barely get off the ground over the next two decades. More electricity will come from burning coal, which increases greenhouse gases, raising questions about the benefits of plug-in hybrids. And U.S. dependence on foreign sources of energy is expected to increase, despite more fuel-efficient vehicles.

The annual projections from the EIA are used by the U.S. government as the basis for any energy-related decisions over the next year and as a baseline in most energy research. The EIA projects only a small increase in the price of oil before 2010, with some decline in the years after that as new sources come on line.

While the EIA boosted its estimates of U.S. ethanol consumption by 21% to 14.6 billion gallons by 2030, only 200 million gallons would be sold as E85, a mix of 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline. EIA Administrator Guy Caruso said the forecast was based on distribution bottlenecks and a lack of a clear price advantage for E85 over regular gasoline.

Detroit automakers have backed E85-capable vehicles as a relatively pain-free way to reduce U.S. dependence on foreign energy and support renewable fuels.

Jason Mark, director of the Clean Vehicles Program at the Union of Concerned Scientists, said government forecasts typically understate the degree of changes in the market. But Mark said projections of E85 demand and increased coal use should raise concerns.

"It's very hard to imagine a world where oil prices stay at $50 a barrel, and we don't see a more aggressive introduction of advanced fuels and technology," he said.

Pravus Prime
12-06-2006, 08:12 PM
What an ugly vehicle. I guess it goes along with the articles ugly rhetoric.

antrey
12-06-2006, 08:22 PM
All PHEVs should be sold with optional solar cells or a small wind turbine to install at home and charge the vehicles off the grid. I'd gladly pay $5k for a solar cell kit to charge my PHEV. Solar panels to power an entire house run about $10k. I can't imagine a smaller setup to charge your PHEV costing more than $5k.

xcel
12-06-2006, 08:30 PM
Hi Antrey:

___The Tesla folks will be doing just that when they finally release the Roadster for public consumption. Of course $89K to get your name on the list for the car alone means an extra $5 - $10K for the solar charging solution won’t mean much. Carbon free transport sure sounds like a wonderful solution to me no matter how we all slice it!

___Good Luck

___Wayne

NEmystic
12-09-2006, 07:05 AM
It certainly doesn't seem to me that bio fuels are a panacea for long term energy supply. However, biobutanol looks like a modest improvement over traditional gasoline in the near term.

I believe that plug-in hybrid technology makes good sense, and should reduce overall energy consumption and greenhouse gas emissions.
Here's the rationale:

The internal combustion engine is not an efficient energy converter. The chemical to mechanical energy conversion efficiency is in the 12% to 20% range, worse when engine idling is involved.

Fossil fuel electric power generator energy conversion efficiency is typically > 60%.
So, if the electric motor(s) in the plug-in hybrid converts electrical energy to mechanical energy (all without useless idling) with efficiency in the 90% range, 0.6 x 0.9 = 0.54 (54%) energy conversion efficiency overall. Even with electric climate control (heat and A/C, it would seem that the plug-in hybrid concept should achieve energy conversion efficiencies in the 50% range.
That sure beats 15%.



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