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Hi All:

___Was just sent the Monroney on the Prius Toyota is allowing me drive for a video shoot in Milwaukee this Friday. I thought it would be Gray Package II we took to NY last summer but the Monroney Matt E-Mailed me shows it is a loaded up Blue Package V.

___This will be my first lengthy experience with the Tech Package including Dynamic Radar Cruise Control, Lane Keep Assist (we’ll see how it reacts to Ridge Riding ;)), LEDs and Intelligent Parking Assist.

2010 Toyota Prius-V

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/2/2010_Toyota_Prius_V_Monroney.jpg
Monroney and Retail = $32,720

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/507/Fall_Rally_Prius-III.jpg
At the MAMA Fall Rally

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/2010_Prius-III_at_a_rest_stop_with_Flags_blowing.jpg
I was told it would be the Gray 2010 Prius-II out of the Chicago Press Fleet earlier so who knows?

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/Toyota_President_and_GM_of_America_-_Bob_Carter_in_front_of_the_Prius-III.jpg
Bob Carter with the 2010 Prius-V at the MAMA meet last June (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23106).

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Tech Package including Dynamic Radar Cruise Control, Lane Keep Assist (we’ll see how it reacts to Ridge Riding ) ... and Intelligent Parking Assist.Whoa, I didn't realize Toyota even offered all that Nanny tech on the Prius. Please do report on how intrusive it is and how easily it is disabled/ignored! And of course on the phenomenal mpg you will no doubt achieve with it.

Can't wait to see your write up. One thing to note, is that Warp Stealth appears to be available on every third start up. I don't know why, but it seems that on every third start you can get into WS.

It would be great if you could figure this out.

Hm. Be sure to turn off the car 3 times at the beginning of a road trip? :p

Can't wait to see your write up. One thing to note, is that Warp Stealth appears to be available on every third start up. I don't know why, but it seems that on every third start you can get into WS.

It would be great if you could figure this out.

Are you saying you never get fuel cut above 45 mph on the 2 intervening starts? Or that when you reapply throttle to cancel regen the ICE re-lights?

Are you letting fully off the pedal, then reapplying, as suggested in Hobbit's Tao of HSI writeup, or just dropping back to near 0 current draw position?

http://techno-fandom.org/~hobbit/cars/HSI/

Mine has never failed to drop to ~980 rpm, but I have not really tried WS yet, per se. [edit: take that back, I have done WS, but maybe only once, so could have been on the 1 of 3 starts.] I'll try to watch it on a trip this weekend. It would be good to know how exactly you observe WS in yours. The energy flow screen has been deemed a liar by many, so I think HSI and SG are the way to go.

I'll be *very* interested in a full dump of what the DRCC does
at the three different settings at different speed ranges, well,
that is if you can stand being that close to another car for
long enough to capture the data.
.
_H*

...The energy flow screen has been deemed a liar by many, so I think HSI and SG are the way to go.


Don't forget to add the iFE display gauge as another lying metric. Yes, HSI helps but it too but still fails to tell the whole story with its display of "power demanded" instead of "power delivered". So far, a properly setup SG is still the most reliable gauge I have. :rolleyes:

With the colder temps, WS is hard if not impossible to lock in. But, with warmer weather I had no trouble getting it on a second try at speeds above 72km/h (45MPH).

Cheers;


MSantos

Hi All:

___Along with News, the C-Span Committee meetings, tweets and fixing YouTube embed code (thanks Sean ;)), the 2010 Toyota Prius arrived a bit ago. Driver Mats in the trunk which will go back to their OEM location and hooked in per the OEM instructions in a few :rolleyes:

2010 Toyota Prius package V

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/2010_Prius-V_Short_Term.jpg
STI’s Matt Hruska dropping it off.

___That is my brother-in-laws Minivan in the background.

___Jud, when driving the 2010 Prius to NY and back last summer, WS was always available but temps were in the 50’s through 70’s IIRC. You made an interesting comment regarding three reboots to bring it in? Is this colder temps like the 20’s we are experiencing in Northern IL at this very moment?

2010 Prius-III_P&G,_SHM and WS_FE techniques rehashed, defined and refined (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25579)

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Hi All:

LKA or Lane Keep Assist

___Although I am still a novice when it comes to these system capabilities (there is no manual in fleet cars ;)), pushing the LKA button on the wheel activates the system and brings up a lane mimic in the center MFD. I will try and get pics later tomorrow.

___When it does have a solid lock on the fog or center line, the mimics road edges are bold. As you come near an edge, there is a continuous warning beep and a slight nudge of the wheel back towards center. Nothing like grabbing the wheel but just a minor and very soft input that you can feel in your hands plus the auditory warning. On country roads, the system is in and out as fog lines that are worn make the system lose its track.

___A negative is that no matter which MFD screen you select for display, the LKA screen will override and reappear after about 5-seconds. There is so little information in it and I have no idea why Toyota decided to force that screen to the forefront when LKA is activated? It is not like you have to disable it for any type of road I can think of?

Radar Cruise Control

___Al, it works but… I have only about 5-miles of highway with it on because I could not find anyone following the speed limit in Southern, WI this afternoon. I finally picked up a truck doing 68 mph in a 65, set up the Radar CC and let her rip. At 68 mph, it would hold an ~ 2-second following distance with 3 bars on the screen. I have to get some more pics. I did not attempt to go 1 or 2-bars (at least not yet) as that would be getting a bit close but I will get back to you on this one.

___It was very quick to react and probably too much so as I felt slight accel’s and decel’s even when cruising along at what appeared to be Steady State.

___In addition, as cars were passing and cutting into the 2-second gap, the RCC would let off the accelerator almost completely and then reaccelerate on the new car with a slightly lower than 68-mph speed until that new car moved into another lane and accelerated away. By then, I do not think it was seeing a vehicle ahead at all and simply accelerated back to 68 mph with nothing in front to track for 4 to 5+ second following distance. Having the automatic systems take over in those situations was interesting but more gimmicky than I would normally allow. I have to do a run to Milwaukee tomorrow for the video shoot and should have some more time with it then.

NAVI

___I have seen experts drive a Toyota’s NAVI by "voice" commands and get themselves to an address in less than a minute. Since I have little knowledge of the Denso? NAVI system, it was all manual. First off, instead of selecting a state, you select a zone. Why that is beyond me? And I found out the hard way. Go to address and type in the town. KS, ND, IA and something else appeared IIRC. Back to square one. Select… ZONE? Yup, a group of states. Ok, done. Town, address and off we go. Toyota NAAVI users are used to the various icons and mimics but I have driven with TomTom’s, Garmin’s, Pioneer and Alpine OEM systems all my life and there is nothing more screwy than a NAVI system that makes its own interpretation as to what it thinks we want to see vs. what I want displayed. I need much more time with it but it certainly is not as intuitive as most OEM’s and after market GPS solutions. Keyboard input via touch screen while parked alongside the road is very slow for some reason?

PCS or Pre-collision System

___I have no idea if it works or how to turn it off but a little orange alpha-numeric PCS light is lit in the far right of the central screen. I know what it does but I am hopeful I will not test its capabilities in the next 3 or 4-days :)

Bluetooth

___I have only been in and out of the car two times with over an hour in between. When I got in this morning, it did not pick up my Motorola phone. Not a good start but we will see what happens later when I try it again.

IPA or Intelligent parking assist

___Have not tried it yet nor do I know how to activate it even if I found a place to Parallel Park...

JBL Radio

___Not such a great sound and when the balance is centered, most of the sound comes out of the front. I had to move the adjustment levels almost 85% to the rear to get proper balance? Sound is nothing to get excited about but I was only listing to CNBC and there is nothing there to get excited about either ;)

___I am not sure how to navigate the various XM-Sat screens either? I need some more time with that as well.

LED headlights

___I have not driven this Prius at night just yet but tomorrow night I will be driving back from Milwaukee after the Auto Show and that will be my chance. I might stop over at my parents and light their Halogens up next to the Prius-V’s LED’s and snap a few pics.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Hi All:

___And what she looked like this morning after the 3 to 4" light snowfall last night :)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/Prius_V_in_the_snow.jpg

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Are you saying you never get fuel cut above 45 mph on the 2 intervening starts?

Yes that is what I am saying.

Jud, when driving the 2010 Prius to NY and back last summer, WS was always available but temps were in the 50’s through 70’s IIRC. You made an interesting comment regarding three reboots to bring it in? Is this colder temps like the 20’s we are experiencing in Northern IL at this very moment?


It is very strange, but it seems like every three times I start the car then I have WS. It does not seem to be temperature dependent. I will try to take a video if I can.

You have a SG with the fuel flow x-gauge, rpm, amps, etc., I presume?

If not, how are you judging when in WS?

I have my SG set up to show Fuel Flow. Sometimes it shows 0 for Fuel Flow and sometimes it does not. What I do is stop the car and reboot (restart). The most it takes is twice and then I have WS and fuel cut off. If I do not do this, then I do not have it. I will post some figures when I can.

I have had a gauge hang in my 2010, think it was current trip FE. Had to restart to get it back. Sounds like yours was not frozen, just not getting to the desired value.

Have also read maybe from adrianblack, that the fuel flow doesn't show zero, but a very nominal amount. Think you would recognize that as fuel cut also.

I'll try to get readings on a drive this weekend. My SG is at 3.15 FWIW. Think newer reflashes are available...

Two seconds, huh. Hmmm. A tad more than the 160 ft the
manual said, but I could wish it was longer than that. Maybe
the millimeter radar can't see quite that far ahead. I suspect
that at the *one-bar* setting you'd be seeing about half that,
and at that distance *my* foot would be in "pre-collision mode"
covering the brake while my brain was going ohSHIIIIII.... hard
to believe anyone even suggests that distance range as safe. If
I was designing it would be maybe 2, 3, and 4 seconds across the
distance settings, with a strong suggestion to NOT use 2s.
.
_H*

I made 2 videos last night. The first one shows the denial of fuel cut off with my foot off the accelerator going down a steep consistent grade. I then went back up to the top of the grade and started to verify no fuel cut, and then pulled off to a small side road and cycled off and back on. After that, I accelerated back up to 55 MPH and fuel cut worked. This is a normal producure that I have to do to get fuel cut to work. It never takes more than 2 off/onn cycles to be able to get fuel cut to work.

Video 1 Demonstation of No fuel cutoff

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oL6kAWH8g4w

Video 2 First no Fuel cut off and then Off/On then Fuel cut off working

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgR64poN7pY

Great job with the video. I will watch both gph and fuel flow x-gauge this weekend.

I wonder whether the gph gauge is lying to you 2 out of 3 times, and thus whether the micro liter x-gauge might reveal you are in fact in WS? I also wonder whether my gph gauge will be consistent with yours.

Seems odd that ICE rpm is 990ish whether using .35 gph or 0 gph. At a given speed, MG2 is constant rpm, so any power coming out of the non-WS engine should be reving MG1 (variation in mg1 rpm x-gauge and in amps)?

How odd! (Not that I didn't believe you, Jud. ;))

I think in this case, seeing is *not* believing. Remember how
several ECU parameters are known to "freeze" in OBD-II query
results, one notably being injector time? I would not doubt
for a heartbeat that GPH is another one of those, and in warp
stealth and possibly even low-speed engine-off conditions various
figures *are* going to lie. The only way to be sure about this
is a direct injector monitor. In theory, doing Yoshi's fuel-pump
monitor is a rough equivalent, as long as we're sure the genIII
kills pump power whenever it's not injecting like the second-gen
does. But if you're going to tap a lead at the engine ECM anyway,
the injector outputs are right there so might as well go right
to the thing that actually squirts.
.
_H*

Good point, but the GPH value is not frozen, it changes. It may be that it is a reporting failure. I am just reporting what I am seeing. Also when the GPH is in the .34 area, it is nearly impossible to get into WS as indicated in the power/arrows screen.

Gen3 power/arrows screen is a lying bas***d according to posts I've read.

Hi All:

___I am glad I get to just drive the 2010 Prius package V instead of dissecting it but we cannot trust the HSI for anything let alone the MFD FCD or the iFCD. What we can trust is R's at 992 are a no-fuel glide while HSI is ~ 1/3 or less up the EV section. Above 1/3 and the SG-II says it begins using fuel from our initial drive discussion last summer? I do not even trust the SG-II in this transition as 992 R's should be WS and no fuel consumed other than the spurt upon entry.

___The LED's provide a much nicer white light but they do not appear to be any brighter. I would love to know the W draw as I suspect its less than half the Halogens. Maybe Hobbit can find that out before I send a note to Torrance asking for the same?

LKA - Lines are bold as fog line/center markings are detected

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/LKA_when_edge_detected.jpg

___LKA will not allow RR unless you force it. Then LKA realizes you want to ride the edge and does nothing.

DRCC – Set at 73-mph and 1-bar while holding 68-mph behind UPS truck...

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/68-mph_DRCC_MFD_and_ahead.jpg

___DRCC... Again trying to find somebody on I-94 heading up to Milwaukee following the PSL yesterday was a hunt. I engaged the DRCC system at 73 mph and finally pulled up to a 68 mph UPS guy. 3-bars, ~ 2-seconds back, 2-bars, ~ 1.5 seconds back and at 1-bar, 1-second back... Boy did I waste a ton of fuel for that experiment over ~ 15-miles!!! Has the whole world gone mad with the need to go 75 + mph in 55 and 65 mph PSL zones :mad:

___In addition, notice the rest of the traffic in this 1-second back or less zone. This is more or less normal for the Gary - Chicago - Milwaukee Corridor.

___At the shoot, I was lucky to have been driving the rich dark blue package V with the 17" wheels. They washed it, placed it on a white floor/backdrop, surrounded it with all kinds of different photographer lighting. The lead, Heidi< had me dress in some darker garb including brand new leather shoes that they bought for this (I wondered why they were asking for clothes sizes the other day???). The photographer and crew must have taken 500 shots from all kinds of angles, poses and different locations in and around the car. They even had me sitting in the engine bay while they highlighted the HSD emblem on the cover. Toyota will surely be very happy when they see the finished product entitled 100mpg!!! or something like that Heidi told me.

Discovery Center Crew

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/2/Photo_Crew_Collage.jpg

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Hi All:

___Does anyone know how to force the Denso NAVI preferences to highways and Interstates? This damn NAVI wants to take back and country roads all the way to Milwaukee and back and I saw no menu for choosing preferences in the NAVI setup area of the MFD!!!

___I really should find a manual to figure out its setup, Voice and on screen features and GUI :(

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Gen3 power/arrows screen is a lying bas***d according to posts I've read.

I feel generally the same way except for only one thing that I find this screen helpful for: Inducing a glide with my foot (soft-glide). That's it !!!

Other than this simple benefit, I see it as little more than momentary entertainment for the passengers.


Cheers;

MSantos

I induce glides on the HSI screen, and use the arrows screen for nothing, so far.

Might want to block out that yellow speed limit sign in the picture, Wayne. :eek:

Hi Sean:

___That was the upcoming "exit" PSL sign in yellow. This stretch of I-94 between the IL border and the beginning of the south side of South Milwaukee is 65 mph.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Ah. Okay. :)

Hi All:

___Some more on the LED’s vs. Halogens…

LED left – Halogen right
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/2010_Prius_LED_vs_Halogen_Collage.jpg
Halogen left – LED Right

Looking straight into the headlights
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/2010_Prius_LED-L_Ha-R_Low.jpg
Led left – Halogen right

___If you own a 10 Prius, block off that grille! I never saw over 181 in my 40-miles of city driving today. Fortunately, Glides worked above 141 degrees F about 95% of the time and even had them above 34 mph from 120 degrees F on up. Sometimes however, you would be in a NICE-On and 10-seconds or so later, she’d drop out??? Anyway, about blocks, during one long glide from 50 mph down to a stop over about .75-miles and 2 + minutes, I saw coolant temp fall from 181 to 159 degrees F! I never did get the chance to perform an idle check yet Glides were working a much higher percentage of the time than expected... From the 75.1 mpg sitting in the drive after 36.x miles of 80% highway, 20% local. I drove 1.5 miles and saw it fall down to 69.x mpg :mad:

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/523/75_1_mpg_-_39_mph.jpg

___I stopped over at my parents to watch the Tsunami (I mean muddy river :rolleyes:) hit Hawaii for 3-hours, a number of < ¾ mile from cold drives to take my parents out to dinner and the drive back in temps form 26 to 32 degrees and its down to 69.8 and just a 27 mph avg.

___Lesson for Prius owners, block that grille and use a block heater at all times in the winter months.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Hi All:

___And another item of note… When hitting the expansion strips which are now close to the size of small speed bumps across much of the Midwest now, there is a lot of noise. Not like squeaks but rumbles reverberating around the passenger space. The HS 250h we drove to LA was much quieter in the cold. In more temperate temps, I was not bothered but in the cold, things are really knocking around inside the cabin.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

The tires at 30psi help absorb the bumps you describe, but which is more important?;)

Our 10 is not at home now, but you can demand interstate only. It's only a couple screens away from the map.

...

___Lesson for Prius owners, block that grille and use a block heater at all times in the winter months.




Now to make sure we remember the advice, let's repeat it once again. Shall we? ;)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/500/MS_Prius3G_FrontGrilleBlocked.jpg

Cheers;

MSantos

Hi All:

___They came and took my Prius package V away this afternoon :ccry:

___I sure do like having one of those in the drive… Now if I could only convince the wife :)

___As it left, it was sitting at 69.9 mpg over 250 miles so maybe 64 mpg over the same with at maybe 50 start/stop hits at the Photo shoot and 15-normal ones over the week I had her, through 2-snowstorms and 20 – 36 degree temps. A good showing as always for the mighty Prius and I was sad to see her go. I will be on a plane within 12-hours crossing the Continent and I bet I could have come close to matching my per seat CO2 and fuel consumption if I were to drive the Prius out West instead. In fact, I can almost guarantee it as I have to be dropped off at Milwaukee’s Mitchell Field in the morning (an 80-mile RT in my parents 10 Prius), fly from Milwaukee to LA, transfer to a puddle jumper to fly back to Prescott, AZ. Drive to the launch in a Super Duty, drive from Prescott to Glendale where I will drive the Super Duty back…

___There is something to be said for a car that can blast its own EPA in the middle of winter and do so while blasting everything else other than the Insight-I driving the same. I am going to miss it…

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Well, maybe you'll get more chances in a pIII come warmer weather
and more events start to line up. I wouldn't mind some more time
at the helm of one but I think most of my questions have been
answered by now.
.
Thanx for the rundown on DRCC -- helps a lot, and it seems to
consistently be about as I thought: 2s/1.5s/1s and that still
seems way too close. Oddly, it looks like you're quite a bit
more than 1s behind the UPS truck, though -- even when trying to
envision all that flowing along at 70 mph. But camera perspective
can deceive sometimes, and you've got a pretty wide shot. Lessee,
at about 100 feet per second ... average lane stripe interval at
40 ft, maybe it does match up to that long unless the lane markings
there are the screwed-up short ones typical of construction sites.
.
I'm going to stick by my statement, though: "if you think you
need DRCC, you're already too close". Lots of people over on
Priuschat disagree with that, for reasons I can't quite fathom.
.
_H*

Might be a temperature variable. I notice that over 190F the MPG can be nudged much higher than if below 190F on the highway. The first video shows starting at what displays as 190F and then cooling down. The second video shows a starting temp of 191F and staying above 190F while attaining WS. Stopping and restarting the Prius might allow the temp sensor to spike past 190F and allow WS. Just a thought.

Wayne

Great job with the video. I will watch both gph and fuel flow x-gauge this weekend.

I wonder whether the gph gauge is lying to you 2 out of 3 times, and thus whether the micro liter x-gauge might reveal you are in fact in WS? I also wonder whether my gph gauge will be consistent with yours.

Seems odd that ICE rpm is 990ish whether using .35 gph or 0 gph. At a given speed, MG2 is constant rpm, so any power coming out of the non-WS engine should be reving MG1 (variation in mg1 rpm x-gauge and in amps)?

I got 0 on gph but a positive value for uL x-gauge with 992 on rpm. Believe this was at 193 or 195F, but cannot swear to it. I felt fuel was cut, but who knows.

I think you are in WS even when gph shows consumption.

Tend to agree with what I think xcel is saying: if seeing rpm at 992-ish, fuel cut has happened. Can't prove that, either. You would think 70C/158F being the S4 threshold would be hot enough.

I'm not much help right now with work and the fact it's my wife's car and my seat time with instrumentation and no objecting passengers is about nil.

But if fuel is flowing it is surely burning (no explosions upon restart). And if fuel is burning, power is produced. If power is produced, mg1 rpm and the amps should vary along with your gph readout. These I have not observed yet for this purpose.

I tend to trust Prius WS more than I trust the gph gauge.

I guess I will have to hook load up the injector firing values and see what that says.