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Hi Hybrid fans
I am happy to announce that I am a partner in a new venture. We will be giving a 3 day (long weekend) hybrid car class. It will be focused on the information individuals that run independent auto repair shops will need to feel confident with all aspects of Hybrid cars. We need the independents to begin servicing these important automobiles, so the dealerships do not have a monopoly.
Lots of hands on instruction in all aspects of the cars, Safety, HV systems,Batteries, Motors, Regenerative systems, troubleshooting, of hybrid drive, Diagnostic Scan tools, Lab scopes, and Cat3 DVMs are used to troubleshoot the cars.
We will be putting up a website very soon, the first class could be late January.
Limited to 20 students
Classes open to all.
Instructors are:
“G” Truglia
Kris Lewis
Swede
Hobbit
Mike Dabrowski
UDH 1 will be great fun and an in depth look at these amazing cars.

Hi Mike:

___Is this class open to just mechanics/technicians on the East coast, all over, or are you possibly going to travel so as to give classes in other regions? When the time comes, I can canvass a few of the local independents with some flyers or brochures if you would like?

___Thanks for bringing this to our attention!

___Good Luck

___Wayne

It will be for auto technicians and anyone else that wants to really learn how the Hybrids work, and how to fix them. People can come from anywhere, and fly into the area. All meals, and accommodations will be provided.
The bio on the trainers, and all the info will be put up on the ATTS website at:
http://www.attstraining.com/
some time next week.
It is too early to know if we will bring the seminar to other locations.

Have you guys thought about having a class the week before or after Hybridfest in Madison? We could help cross promote it with you.

Eric,
Interesting idea.
We may even be able to do a seminar at Hybridfest, if we could work out the details.
We will be building up a bunch of the demo units, and could pack some of them into a van or trailer for a road show. But it is way to early to say. My task right now is to find some totaled Hybrids to convert into the demos. Anyone have an Insight, HCH2, second gen Prius, Escape hybrid, or Hylander hybrid, that is sitting in a heap in their back yard that they want to sell to a good cause? ;)
If we can get the right car, we are considering a driveable totally wide open Prius, with all of the electronics exposed so we can do the in depth diagnostics without all the crunch of accessing the connectors. An Insight IMA powered go cart for laps around the parking lot could also be fun.
:woot:

There was a guy on IC that had an Insight with a branded title for sale. (Was salvaged, now rebuilt.) I think he had it priced ~$5,000 but was very open to negotiation. The IMA was bad. Also I know of a guy that I think still has an old Insight battery that has been sitting for ~2 yrs. He'd probably sell it for cheap, but is it really worth anything?

I'll keep my eyes and ears open for more possibilities.

We need cheap crashed Hybrids, which we will just tear apart for the components. Once we get some money built up, we will look for some running cars with body damage.
My cousin and his friend subscribe to Coparts auctions, so we can see all the cars nationwide that are up for auction, and can bid on line.
We do not want to pay more than $500-$2000 for each car.
We need a Prius and a Honda to start with.
In a pinch Hobbit and I can use our cars.

If there was an easy way to scan http://www.nhtsa.com/ for collisions, that might help.

Actually the Coparts system is quite easy to use, I can search all the auctions in the country and get a list of the cars with photos of the damage.
There are presently 66 Prius, 15 HCH, 8 Insights, 4 Hylander Hybrid, 6 Ford Escape Hybrids, and 6 Lexus Hybrids that will be auctioned this month. The cars usually bring pretty high prices considering that they are all totaled as far as the insurance companies are concerned, therefor I would like to find a private owner that has bought their totaled hybrid from the insurance company, and is willing to sell it for a lower price. Will have to see how it goes, but at least I have lots to choose from.
;)

The database of cars is has thousands of cars, so don't let the number of Prius make anyone think that they get in more accidents, there is just more of them on the road.

Chuck, it is not realy related to the subject at hand. This thread is about diagnosing cars and where to fund junked ones for experimentation/training.

Lets not get it off on a tangent.

...finding info on cars that have been in collisions can be difficult - that was the point.

The used prius market is hot.
Today an 06 Pruis that had a bad front hit, went for 6K at a NY auction, it was bought from CA, so they were looking at cross country transportation as well.
could be rough to get one.

Hi Mike:

___Where is the guy from the Tour De Sol that has all those Prius II packs picking them up from? He might be a good source for parted out Prius II’s?

___Good Luck

___Wayne

He gets them off Ebay.

Jim Dunn? I don't think he's actually doing much with those
packs, other than reselling them for a profit. Mike's been
pointing out a bunch of totaled priuses and civics and FEHes
though, and I'm mildly astounded by how *many* there are up
for auction. Must really have sucked for all those owners!
The bright side is that it looks like quite a few parts will
be available on the salvage market, but you might have to buy
a large, heavy pile of junk just to get some good bits out.
I guess that's pretty much how it works, though..
.
_H*

Hi Mike, visit this web site

http://www.autobeyours.com/

To see if Woody has any salvage vehicles of interest to you

DAS

Thanks for the link. I found his site last week, but transportation will be an issue since I am in CT.
I see four Prius on the blocks for next week, only 2 hours from here, and will probably bite the bullet and try to win one of them. The going price seems to be 5-6K for a 2005.

I figured I would give Steve at Autobeyours a call, and see what it would take to get the raw materials for the new demos. Steve is a first rate guy, he was able to fix us up with a great assortment of Prius innards, for a great price.
Now I have to wait for my Christmas box of goodies to arrive.
:rolleyes:

Hi Mike:

___I would love to see that Christmas parts box sometime. Take some pics when they arrive :)

___Nice find Doug!

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Mike,

You almost got an opportunity to get a wrecked Insight with the left side completely cut away. :D :( :eek:

Chuck, Almost only counts in horseshoes.
The christmas package will arrive today. Yea!:) I will snap a few before I start working on them photos.

Got the first shipment of parts. Thanks to Steve at Autobeyours, and Tochatihu's tip.
I started a blog to follow the development of the training class, and have put up the before photos.
http://www.99mpg.com/understandingdiagn/
:cool: ;)

Demo car #1, of course it is an Insight.
http://http://www.99mpg.com/Projectcars/BlueBird1/
I hope the IMA electronics were above the water line :eek: ;)

I don't know the complete Vin yet, anyone recognize the partial one?
JHMZE1354YT

nice mike,
I hope it works out...
At the very least you'll have a car to play with that doesn't risk your main driving vehicle.
Glad to see the work is still going :woot:

Latter

Ian

Demo car #1

The complete vin# JHMZE1354YT001456
2000 insight.
Anyone got a carfax account that could look it up for me?
Thanks
Mike

sent the CarFax as an attachment in MS Word format to you Mike... if you have any problems opening or viewing it let me know...

IamIan

Thanks IamIan,
The document did not indicate information about the water damage that it was totlaed for, and seems to only go to 130K and has missed the last 20K of the history.
Thanks again, I guess I will never know ?
Will have to wait until Friday to see what shape the IMA electronics are in.;)

I want to see you guys rewind a motor for a bit more power.

Don't want to demagnitize the rotor magnets.;)

sorry Mike the Car Fax report I got from the carfax site the last entry was for 5/31/06 at 139,284 Miles when it passed NY Inspection and Emissions.

but that happens with CarFax....

Best of luck....

I must have been a good boy this year. The "flooded" Insight is perfect, IMA was never wet. I installed a new 12V battery, let the thing idle so the SOC corrected it self, and everything works.I just ran it down the road a mile or so and back with no plates, and it runs great.
The paperwork with the car had the insurance estimate, as well as the guys name address and telephone that owned it.I gave him a call, and he described the "flood". The car was parked near where he worked, and a heavy downpour flooded the area where he was parked. By the time he found out, the water was about 3 inches above the bottom door seal. He climbed in through the rear deck,to stop water from rushing in the doors, and was able to start it and drive out of the puddle.The front rugs got soaked, but as far as I can see, the ECM and IMA electronics were not flooded. He drove it home that night, and saw all the lights on the dash on, and the IMA did not work. There was so much humidity that he had to drive with the windows open. After allowing a day or so for things to dry out, the dash trouble lights went out, but the IMA light was still on, so he called his insurance company. The insurance adjuster included $3500 for a new battery pack, as well as $2K for the MCM and BCM. That brought the repair cost to $7k with the labor, so they totaled it.I suspect that the ECM was effected by the condensing humidity, and that the IMA kicked out because of a HV ground fault, both of which have dried out thoroughly since October when this all happened.

The car has the better stereo with rear speakers and factory cd changer, AC, and an after market Rostra cruise control, as well as the better alarm system.

All I need to fix is to get some attachment screws and straighten out the under body panel that got bent as he backed out of the puddle, and ran over something that had washed under there, and some new tires.
Mikey is one Happy Camper.:) :p ;) :woot:
Happy New Year to all

Hi Mike:

___It sounds as if MIMA #1 is about to be retired to the classroom for dissection ;)

___Nice find and I hope the New Used Insight works out for you …

___Good Luck

___Wayne

That sounds great Mike!

People freak when they see me give a computer motherboard a bath in Dawn. :)

Not out of the woods yet.
I seem to hear a noise like a dry bearing when the motor runs. It may be my imagination,the AC clutch bearing, or something worse. I hope to get under it and do some further testing tomorrow.
I fixed many a flood damaged color TV by washing the PC board with alcohol and thoroughlty drying it out.
Where is the fingers crossed dancing bananna?;)

After removing the AC clutch, idler pulley, and checking the waterpump, it seems that there was some rust on the AC clutch that rubbed and made the screeching noise, I cleaned it up, and things seem normal.:woot:
As I am begining my demo construction, I wanted to share some interesting discoverys on the flooded Prius battery pack.
The pack had been submerged for an indefinate time, and looked like it was stored outdoors, so the thing was a total rusted mess. The screws holding the case together were stainless, so that came apart ok. The terminals on the subpacks used regular steel nuts on stainless studs, and they were rusted so severly that most just rounded off when I tried removing them. I took a cutoff wheel on my air grinder and was able to remove most of the nuts after grinding two flats on the rusted nuts, which gave the vice grips something to grab, and heated the nuts as well. I hosed off all the mud and used an old toothbrush to clean off most of the rust.
As one would expect, the 7.2V subpacks were down to .5 - 1.5V. I figured I would at least try to recharge them. I connected my lab power supply set to a max voltage of 8.6V, and constant current of 1A. The voltage rose quickly to about 1.6V, then dropped down to about 1.1V and then slowley over 10-20 minutes recovered to over 7.2V. I left the charge current on them for 4-5hours, and found that they totally recovered, and after testing them for several discharge/charge cycles, they seem to be on par with the other subpacks that never got totally discharged. Those NIMH subpacks are pretty durable, and should last the life of the car.;)

One time opportunity.:woot:
We are working on our first UDH class, and have most of the current hybrids covered. The car we are missing, is the Honda Civic Hybrid. Preferably the later models from 05-06.
We discussed it, and decided that we will offer free entry to the seminar for someone that owns a HCH2 that would be interested in driving out to attend. Please contact me for details if interested.
Flyer link:
http://www.attstraining.com/files/HybridClassFlier01-07.pdf
Thanks

We have a Civic, so we are ready to go.:)
thanks

WOW what a great weekend. The seminar went very well.
We asked the students for feedback rating on a 1 to 4 scale, with 4 being the best. All of the technicians gave us a 4, and were quite happy. I made some new friends, and have already started some prep for the next event which will likely be held near the end of Feb.
We had the good fortune to have Ron Ananian the Car Doctor attend the event on Saturday. He had a great time, and gave our seminar a review on his show on Sunday.
A podcast of the Jan 28 show is available for download at the WOR website.
http://www.wor710.com/pages/48729.php

Direct link:
http://www.wor710.com/episode_download.php?contentType=36&contentId=254488

I will be putting some photos from the event on my UDH blog at:
http://http://www.99mpg.com/workshops/understandingdiagn/
Later today.:woot: ;)

I wandered through the podcast today; Ron completely mangled
the references to my site and apparently doesn't like the Prius
a whole lot. Then again, he was getting fairly abysmal mileage
on his chilly jaunt; maybe he should try again in summer.
.
I'll also have some pix up at some point. I got some really
funny ones of Mike and his zappy toys!
.
Oh, the direct podcast-file link:
_ http://podcast.wor710.com/wor/101021.mp3 [17.5 Mb, 36 min]
.
_H*

Hey guys, thanks for the links.
I'm glad to hear it was such a success! Although, given the calibur of the presenters it's no suprise. You guys know more about the inner workings of hybrids than just about anyone else on the planet.

I look forward to more pics.

Hi Eric
Thanks for your comments.
It was a really good time for me. Hobbit as usual was a fountain of information and insight about the Prius. The other instructors are all very knowledgeable as well. We hope to develop a road show "Understanding Hybrid and Electric Cars" as second seminar, with the general public as a target audience.

"Insight about the Prius", that still amuses me. But it's true --
I've actually learned quite a bit from Mike and the other Enzyte-jockeys
in the last couple of years.
.
Got my pix up, too: http://techno-fandom.org/~hobbit/pix/udh1/
and another possibly amusing set, unrelated, about the Prius
throttle body: http://techno-fandom.org/~hobbit/cars/tb/
.
Enjoy..
.
_H*

Did I miss how much you guys charge for the clinic? Someday I would like to go and just observe. Maybe I could get a discounted rate if I stayed out of the way ;)

My pix page included a link to the attstraining website, upon
which PDF flyers for the classes can be found. It ain't cheap.
Working techs evidently pay pretty dearly for their education,
especially if they're not particularly self-starters with time to
grope all over the net and find the stuff we do. But in that
same [unpaid] time we do research, they can probably make back
the cost of the event by working.
.
There's a vague concept floating around of discounted rates for
car owners wanting to sit in and willing to donate their own
vehicles temporarily as guinea pigs, but that raises a bunch
of other issues we're not prepared to deal with at this point.
Too many lawyers, y'know. And heck, if I'm remaining leery about
having my *own* daily-driver ripped into where I *know* what's
going on, I could easily see others thinking "NFW".
.
_H*

Heh. Well, while you are in there maybe I could have had you run another 12V bus in my car so I can run more accessories. I need another switched 12V that can handle about 40A ;) But alas, I understand about the lawyer thing.

BTW, your prices aren't bad at all. It is typical of what I would pay for IT training classes.

A first cut at that is pretty easy -- I just hung an anderson
connector straight off my battery.
http://techno-fandom.org/~hobbit/pix/prius-ferrups.jpg
Does that count as "switched"? It certainly doesn't ride
around in the car all the time [but another smaller unit
does, with a 7.5Ah brick inside].
.
_H*

By switched I mean put a relay on the accessory wire to turn on and off a separate feed from the battery to let me draw 40W or so to permanently installed accessories.

Hi Hobbit:

___I want to do a news item on both Mike and yourself from the Car Doctor link Mike provided the other day. Would you mind if I used a photo or two from your UDH link for it? I also do not have one single photo of you banging away on an MGSet or pulling apart body panels of your Prius II. Do you have anything I can doctor together for the Home Page? I listened to the broadcast last night and Ron had a ton of good things to say about the both of you. That snippet about Mike being the engineer of “Star Trek’s” Enterprise in 500 years was pretty profound as well!

___Thanks in advance.

___Wayne

Wayne,
Thanks for wanting to do a news story. We have lots of other photos,and feel free to grab whatever is on line.
Maybe you can call and discuss what you have in mind, and we can send you supporting photos. We also have some video of the event.
The next UDHEV will be 23-24-25 of Feb. if anyone wants to attend.
It was lots of fun fo4r all, and we will be striving to make each one better that the last.

Beam me up Scotty.:cool:

Wayne, you might get some good fodder from the Naked Prius page,
where I've got plenty of stuff ripped apart. And the various
other parts-breakdowns. That's exactly how I learn about this
stuff -- digging in, but still without trying to tear apart major
components requiring sealants and fluids [at least on my own
car]. I'd say use what you want and just make sure to properly
credit it. If you go to my main index and snoop through the HTML
source, you'll find some hints about finding the older stuff too.
.
Lemme know what you grab and how you want to use it; I might
have additional guidance on making it all make sense. There
may be a couple of caveats on some of it, just be aware.
.
_H*

Hi Mike and Al:

___I want to do a quick Bio on the both of you and in particular, a rundown on the Hybrid training class you guys are currently involved with and teaching.

___I have followed Mike’s searching the planet for busted hybrid parts which is almost as fascinating as the class overview itself.

___Al, I am not really interested in the parts and the breakdown but a pic of you in front of your Prius II. I seem to remember a pic of just you staring off into the distance at HF2006 but I searched my entire repertoire of pics and did not find it? Preferably in your bare feet and pony-tailed hair ;)

___I want to use the one of Mike with the CAP as he lights it off.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/2/Mike_D_-_375_W_pow.jpg

___That pic of Mike is the way I have always imagined and seen him in person the two times we have met. Not a slicked up individual in a button down shirt and tie but a down to earth genius doing what he loves best. Kind of like “Scotty” from Star Trek which was an appropriate description from the Radio show.

___Al, if you have the original of Mike with a bit more definition, please forward it to me for a little cropping and sizing without a substantial loss of resolution. I need a similar one of you as well …

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Heh... okay, I see potential for that one of Mike to become
totally infamous. Better let Mike weigh in on that first; I think
he's off at a client site today.
.
As for stuff like bios and pix -- suggest you grab the bit about
me off 99mpg.com, before it goes away. And for possibly the
ultimate barefoot-wacko shot, in the "naked" page there's always
http://techno-fandom.org/~hobbit/cars/naked/bis.jpg ...
.
How much resolution do you need on these? These days [although
it didn't necessarily happen in the "naked" page] I resize the
big ones for 1024x768 and then drop semi-thumbnails of them into
the actual pages. That fits most screens/browsers reasonably.
Don't worry, I've still got all the camera-original for all this
stuff too.
.
_H*

Wayne,
Out of context, people will wonder what a discharging capacitor has to do with a Hybrid car class, so if you want to have some fun with my sparkie photo, make sure you qualify it with an explanation.Thats all I ask.
We have found that most of the guys attending the Hybrid car seminars have safety concerns about handling the the High voltage batteries, and working on the car with the high voltage running front to back. We want to really get them comfortable working with the HVDC with a clear understanding of the energies involved and how to do it safely.
The batteries are disconnected whenever the 12V system is powered down, but the power Inverter has about 6000Uf at the system voltage of between 144 to 330VDC, and remains charged up for 1-5 minutes after the car is powered down. A resistor array is directly in parallel with the capacitors, and begins to discharge them as soon as the car is powered off.

The capacitor demonstration is to graphically show how much energy is stored, so the guys have a healthy respect for it. I can charge up the 6000Uf cap to 350VDC, so we can examine the way that stored energy goes up with the square of the voltage.

The bang is pretty loud, :eek:
Learning hands on is lots of fun, and the information really sticks.

Hi Guys
I just won a bid for a salvage 01 CVT Insight, that I will be turning into a running IMA system demo for our UDHEV hybrid seminar.(we may see that IMA go cart yet)
The car will be here next week.
The car has no key, and is probably in park, so I will have trouble moving it around to work on it.
Does anyone know if I can get a new key made if I present the title and the Vin# to a honda dealor ?
Any Idea what it would cost?

With a title and vin # I can't imagine them saying no. I expect to get it programed and cut it would cost about $200

Thanks Tom,
Whew That is a lot of money for a Key. Are you talking from experience or just estimating?

I will give my local Honda dealor a call once I get the car here. I may just bypass the whole transponder thing, and break the locking pin since I do not expect to ever be driving the thing?

Yeah. It is a guesstamate from what I thought I read ;)

Is there no shift lock override? Some autos I've driven have a little button that lets you shift from park to neutral with or without the key. You guys probably already thought of that but it can't hurt to ask.

I got the park release answer from a CVT Insight guy. There is a removable rectangular cover near the front of the shift console that once removed, allows any key to be inserted and it releases the park lock solinoid. So I think that issue is resolved.
Still will need to unlock the steering column, but a big cresent wrench may take care of that?
Never did much auto theft, so can't say how difficult that will be.
;)

Got the blue Insight today, and I picked up a $5 replacement key from a local honda dealer.
The key will open the doors, turn the ignition, but will set off the alarm system since it has no chip.
The chip key is about $45, and needs to have the car at the dealers for reprogramming.
The car had no oil in the engine or CVT, so I will have to dig in tomorrow to see what is damaged. I already saw that the CVT bottom cover was cracked.
Anyone know if that is aluminum or is it Magnesium?
This will be a lot of work to get running.

Pulled all the IMA stuff out, it looks brand new in the IMA compartment, this is the first time that cover was even removed.
The CVT bottom cover was aluminum, and I did manage to TIG weld all the cracks so it does not leak.
Now I have to remove the engine and CVT, and start building the stand. Big job for one guy.
;)

Big job for one guy.
;)

Aren't you somewhere in eastern CT? I'm a little northeast of Manchester and enjoy turning a wrench from time to time. With a little advance notice I would certainly consider giving you a hand if you need help with "heavy lifting" (if there is such a thing when you're talking about an Insight ;) ). Shoot me a PM if that would be useful.

Sounds like a plan CU tomorrow AM;) :cool: :woot:

Looking forward to it!

Hi Mike and Tim:

___Don’t forget the pics!

___Good Luck and have fun.

___Wayne

I may have to move to CT.

Randall

Tools were used, knuckles were bashed, an engine was pulled, and a good time was had by all. I don't have much time now, but I took a bunch of pics and will be able to post some tomorrow. Suffice it to say that the mission was accomplished and I got a good look at some of Mike's hybrid toys. Not to mention that we couldn't have asked for better weather!

Thanks to Brick's help, we got the engine and tranny out in one piece I could not have did it alone. It was so warm we did not even need jackets. Great time, and I am now ready to build the stand.
Now if the wifes caravan had not lost a strut that let the spring rest on the tire and burn a 1" swath nearly to the coard, it would have been a perfect day.
American quality, the thing only has 65K, and has had a tranny main bearing go, and now the strut rust out.
;)

Without further delay, a few pics that I took between bouts of wrestling with an uncooperative donor vehicle.

Here's how things looked when I arrived at about 9 on a fine Saturday morning. That's Mike down in the pit wrenching away at one thing or another:

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/2/Insight_Front.jpg

The path of least resistance involved getting everything cut away from the engine except for the high voltage conduit and engine wiring harness, which we disconnected from the other end. The battery had already been dismantled but we still had to deal with the exhaust and gas tank in order to gain full access to a few screws that were being stubborn. I give you the least-used component in a Honda Insight:

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/2/Insight_Gas_Tank.jpg

And the fuel tank sending unit, which I hear is very expensive and somewhat failure-prone:

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/2/Fuel_Gauge_Sending_Unit.jpg

Straps in place, getting ready to free the engine of its mounts and axles:

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/2/Insight_Motor_Ready_to_Hoist.jpg

And here's what we were after, out of the car and sitting in the back of the shop:

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/2/Insight_Engine_Out.jpg

nice pics and work... thanks for the posts.. :)

Brick, nice shots, come back and help clean and mount the power plant if you like.

More photos and the whole story.
http://http://www.99mpg.com/Projectcars/BlueBird1/
;)

UDHEV -- unbolting and dismantling hybrid electric vehicles!
.
_H*

Yep,
Have to Unbolt and Dismantle before we can Understand and Diagnose.;)

The CVT Insight on a stand got it's first powerup on Saturday.
It was disapointing , the immobilizer works quite well. It kills the fuel pump, fuel injectors, and spark, so it is hopeless to try and start without a programmed chip key. We will have to truck it to our local Honda dealor who will programm it for a new key for about $140. What a ripoff.
http://www.99mpg.com/workshops/understandingdiagn/
Thanks for taking the photos Hobbit.

Needed a way to move the IOS (Insight On Stand),
And to get the demos to some road seminars.
Brother Alan donated his old starcraft camper, which has lots of interesting possibilities.
I even pulled Sparkie the Air/ Electric hybrid robot out of mothballs, as a fun attraction.
:p
http://www.99mpg.com/workshops/hybridroadseminars/

Update on the Insight on a stand:
The CVT insight that we are building onto a test stand had no key. The Insight will not start without a programmed key.
Finally got a lift hook on the stand, lifted it unto a buddies pickup, brought it to my local Honda dealer.
The Key cost me $51. Half of the mechanics skipped out to see what the strange Borg cube on the pickup was all about, and we had a lively discussion about the IOS and hybrid training.
After programming the system, the motor started on the first crank. Yea!
Very Happy
They had so much fun, that they did not charge for the programming.
another Yea for that.:Banane01:

The bottom line on the function of the immobilizer.
The immobilizer turns off the fuel shutoff valve, stops firing the plugs, and stops the fuel Injectors, all are controlled in the ECM.
If you swap ECM, you need to reprogram.
No chance of hot wiring an Insight. We can all rest easy about getting our babies stolen.

http://www.99mpg.com/workshops/understandingdiagn/

Is there a way to use this information for an easy fuel injector cut off switch.

Interesting idea.
The FAS relay that directly cuts the power to the Injectors is probably simpler.

My thinking is most Fuel cutoff mods require extra parts (a relay at least). I would think you would only need a switch to open the circuit so the pickup can't report back to the ecu. By eliminating the relay you would increase the reliability.

The immobilizer is checked by the ECM when the car is first started. A request for key verification is sent from the ECM, the immobilizer responds with a serial communiction that either says bad key or good key. Once the ECM is convinced that the key is the correct one, no further communication is necessary, so any FAS trying to use that circuit would not work since the validity of the key is not being checked once the car is booted up and running.
Hope that makes my reasons for feeling it is better to just cut the Injector wires either with a relay or a switch more clear.

Absolutely. Makes perfect sense.