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Since there have not been many new posts lately, I have a couple of simple questions for xcel, krousdb, carl?, rick?, or anyone else that knows:

I have been averaging in the low 70's on my MFD for the last two tanks with my 2006 Toyota Prius with 3100 miles on it with OAT dropping down to the 40's and 50's. I am waiting for a block heater (in the mail; I want to eliminate at least one cold startup for the day). I still have oil from the manufacture at the full level in the car. My tires are at 56/54 psi. The car is empty except for a 230 lb driver. I have a 20 miles commute to work through surburban traffic.

I understand how to figure out how far I have to coast on my glide given an average mpg during my pulse (I have a table of it in my car).

1. Is low 70 mpg okay for a prius for my temps? I ask becuase I am new with the car and it is nagging at me to have to wait four or five more months for 80-90F temps to see what I can do in the spring / summer. I am hoping that summer temps, slightly worn front and rear tires (after first rotation) and synthetic oil will get me about 5% more FE. Possibly More? :o

Mainly rhetorical thought: I thought I was doing well with a 55 mpg average for a tank (2nd tank I think). What kind of tanks will I pull next summer?

2. Will a scangage help me with a prius? I know what my impg is already. I figure it would help me to know what the engine load is (for optimization) and keep it there during my pulses? I can do the simple math and get an idea of what my trip or segment mpg was based on beginning and ending mpg and mileage.

3. Is my engine load logic reasonable for the scan gage?

4. When I pulse, there are arrows from the engine to the wheels and from the electric motor to the battery (none from the electric motor to the wheels). My impg seems to be between 24 and 30 mpg during a pulse. Is this okay? Are the conversion losses keeping me from 100 mpg and at 70 mpg? I have tried to pulse with no arrows to or from the battery, but this is a much faster acceleration. How was acceleration handled during the 1400 mile tank? Was there much use of EV mode during the marathon or was the that "trick / experience" of the drivers that made the difference?

5. Is is normal for the impg values to be lower during colder weather? If so this would explain my inability to get higher mileage. Obviously, a lower impg during pulses can greatly affect my necessary glide distance.

Maybe, I know the answers. Practice and experiment with different techniques that will work for my situations. I just want to know if I am going about it in the right manner.

My next tank should bring my lifetime average over 62 mpg. A small step. I think it is feasible to get my lifetime average over 70 by October of next year if I can get through this winter.

Hi Chris:

___I hope I can answer your questions with some semblance of knowing what I am talking about ;)

1) Yes, very well in fact. Is there much more in 40 and 50 degree temps? Probably not unless you have the perfect commute w/ a block heater to help on startup. If your Prius II is garaged, that will help as well. Most do not have that perfect commute :(

2) Some love the ICE load reading but I find it distracting at best and meaningless at its worst. However ICE load is calculated via OBD-II, it almost always reads high to maxxed even with little throttle input. For a TC, the SG-II is a wonderful addition and I highly recommend it over and above all else in your Prius II.

3) See #2.

4) Your Accel is fine and your Pulse - pack fill allows you extended glides in EV. The 1,400 mile tank came about while using Pulse rates of between 16 and 50 mpg. The Prius II’s HSD is actually that lenient. You have seen the P&G plus Warp Stealth in the Prius II … (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1224) write up here at CleanMPG and everything I can think of is explained there.

5) Cold weather instantaneous’ are always lower. Higher RR, higher aero drag, and the ICE is not nearly as efficient in colder temps as it is in higher. Your ability to go ICE-Off until Coolant is up to temp and your shortened Glide distances because of the colder roadway temps kill all of us as the ambient drops. From 70 degrees F on up, you are good to go. Anything below and the numbers head south in a hurry. And they keep going south until your FE finally bottoms around 0 degrees F :(

6) Not many have an lmpg of 60 + and you are doing well so far by anyone’s book. If you do have one of those perfect commutes, your 100 + segment and possibly 90 + tank is in the bag next summer. Think of Tedi-Girl’s commute being as close to perfect as one can get and follow the techniques you are honing in on as we speak.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Thank you for your response, xcel.

I think I am on track. It is supposed to be almost 70F next week. What a great way to "fix" a tank that had to contend with very high winds, heavy rain, cold temperatures, short trips, and excessive payload.

... and excessive payload.

Me too. From too much turkey.:)

I found something that I'd buy except for one thing.

Can't run it and ScanGage at the same time because they require the same OBDII socket.

If you go to www.carchip.com (http://www.carchip.com), they sell a memory chip you plug in the OBDII socket (for $139 or $179). After the trip, you can chart your trip to death (second-by-second speed, engine temp, braking, heavy acceleration, practicly anything). If you want to compare trips, this is the tool. Again, the problem is you can't read it while you are driving - that's what ScanGage does.

VA -- you, in fact, are doing *really* well. Especially for
a car that new, and without the year or two behind the wheel
after which a lot of drivers are *still* learning. Even with
all the instrumentation I've put in, I'm not holding that high
[albeit possibly in a more mixed driving scenario]. I've seen
some of your figures go by on priuschat and such and thought
to myself "okay, how *is* he doing that unless he's got the
perfect set of roads?" Like you're a natural, or something.
.
So the obvious thing to do is sit you down in *my* car and have
you go at it and take a bunch of notes. Whatcha say?
.
_H*

Hi Hobbit:

___One suggestion that might help? Put the excess instrumentation away and just drive. Take a look at the lmpg’s of all those posting the scientific approaches in the PTS forum. You know who I am speaking of ;) Then look at the Carl H’s, Krousdb’s, and VaBeachPrius’ of the world. They simply drive for great FE without being buried in the smallest of details. Dan nailed down a 115 in his SG-I equipped Prius II at HF2006 while kicking @$$ and taking names in the time to finish department. I hope you to discover this zone soon as well. I have the distinct feeling that one of these days you are going to do just that and then kick all our @$$e$ :D

___I applaud you for all the work wrt the inner details but your instrumentation might be getting in the way and driving you instead of you driving it :(

___Good Luck

___Wayne

This is why I'd like to see the MPG competition at HF and such
events evolve into something more like training runs, where a
given driver goes out with a passenger or two and *explains*
what he's doing in realtime while doing it, while the riders
take notes and report it all back into a central place and/or
discussion session and everyone winds up learning the best
techniques to go out and apply. [And if you put someone like
Dan or VAP in mine, we get a better view *via* the instrumentation
as to what's going on, while they ignore it and just drive.
.
_H*

Hi Hobbit:

___Try and forget about the instrumentation for a minute. The Prius Marathon showed that we could peg the 5 minute bars and maintain beyond 100 mpg in traffic with accel rates + basic hypermiling techniques as wide as posted. I wish you could visit a Milwaukee Hybrid Group meet sometime. Although we never see 6 pegged 5-minute bars with a new driver behind the wheel, seeing one or two is not out of the question. In my experience, you already have the basics down. In fact, you are already a darn good hypermiler by anyone’s standards. I just want you to attempt to go with the flow instead of getting bogged down in the instrumentation. Find that slower speed road to work and back and feel the accel in your back side vs. the toys which may be more of a distraction then a help? Half the reason you see a higher FE between one hypermiler and the next is roads and conditions. If I owned a Prius II with Carl’s commute, she is going to see a 100 + mpg tank and an 85 lmpg just going back and forth to work because the roads are that desolate. Give me a Prius II on my commute and I will be lucky if her lmpg peaks at 65 – 70 :(

___You are in Boston proper, right? Seeing a 55 lmpg in that nightmare might be near peak and you are doing great just to reach that!

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Thanks, _H*.

I take my time on back roads to get to work. I do have good sets of roads where I can do 30-35 mph most of the time. I don't run many errands in my car. I am often by myself.

There is one stretch of road for 1 mile that I have to do 50 mph or I will get run over (two lanes); sometimes I can do 35-40 if nobody is behind me.

I got to thinking; I am number 12 out of 954 cars on greenhybrid.com as far as FE numbers go. I should just be thankful that I can do what I can. Is it wrong to want to be #1 at Greenhybrid.com? Hopefully, krousdb doesn't get his prius back from his wife. :eek:


You guys here like xcel (66 mpg out of an accord), krousdb (70? mpg out of a civic vx), lakedude, delta flyer (high 90's), psyshack, and many others that get the kind of mileage out of their "regular" and hybrid cars is amazing.

xcel,

I don't know about kicking as#$%@ and taking names. Remember, I have yet to go 1400 miles on a tank of gas. ;)

VaBeachPrius,

I'm probably more enthuasist than hypermiler. I've had a few great segements, but highwater is the 90s guy on a consistent basis (as was Wayne when he was driving one). On a day-by-day basis, I'm a 70's guy, sometimes 80s. Last spring got 98.9mpg poking at 40mph over 141 miles.

It's fun, and hope you enjoy this too.

I have seen what a warm snap can do. The temps today were in the low 60's instead of the low 40's. Thanks for listening to me whine about my mileage. I was going crazy trying to figure out how I could be getting 59 mpg on my commute instead of 74 mpg. Today, I was able to raise my tank average by 1.0 mpg over 41.0 miles. This tank was at 77.4 mpg at 239 miles until the northeaster and cold weather hit our area. Boo hoo for winter temps.:mad:

87.1 mpg over 41.0 miles !!! Thats what I'm talkin' 'bout. :woot: :woot:

Next spring and summer is going to be insane. Too bad the end of the month is in a couple of days or this would have been another 800 mile tank. I would really like to give that UFE III a whirl under the right conditions.

http://www.greenhybrid.com/share/files/5/4/5/8/DSC_7083a.JPG

Hi Chris:

___It is time you invested in an SG-II so you don’t keep running beyond the Prius’ FCD capabilities ;)

___Good Luck

___Wayne