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For the first time ever, I had to send my "Little Mule" via tow truck to the Service Dept. "Found On Road Dead" as the Chevy owners say, it acted like it may be the eCVT, Throttle Body or the PCM. It acted very strange for the first time since new. Here are the details:

Put her in the driveway Wednesday with 47.6 tank average, so it was running fine. Thursday, my wife pulled it out of the way so my son could play basketball in our driveway. After he had finished, she backed it back in the driveway face out like I always leave it. She came into the house complaining that something was wrong, because she smelled a gas burning smell. The wind was strong when I checked it out, but I could smell bad emission or something.

Today, I started it up and heard a rattle/grinding noice for a second, but proceeded into the street at a slow pace about a 150FT and stopped at a stop sign to enter a 35mph street out of my development. No power, Navi show low HV battery as always, but the Mule would not accelerate over 20mph. Dash info said "Safely Come To A Stop", which I had no choice because the ICE shut down. On a side street, I restarted the ICE in "Park" and it went to a fast idle and rocked like it was in gear. It shut down in less than 30 seconds and the "Safely Come To A Stop" message came on and the ICE shutdown again. This time I noticed a red "!" on the dash, but my scangauge was set to read trouble codes and said "no codes found". Repeated this starting the ICE a few more times after letting her sit for ~5min., and it did the same thing.

This "!" is not shown in my PCM/ED manual, so I don't know what to think there. The rattle/grinding noise is strange also. The big thing was, while I was in "Park" and started it up, power was coming from the HV battery, to the engine, and to the wheels. Power to the wheels while in park has never happen to my knowledge. The fact that it was surging in "Park" is strange also. Maybe a shifter problem? We all know I shift the most , we will see.

All ideas welcome.

GaryG

I bet a furry friend ate through some wires.

You never know Tom, but I force my mule to keep on going everytime I turn the key. My Jack Russels keep the yard clean of furry friends and snakes most of the time.

The good thing is, my service rep. called me and said she would try to get me a rental even though I bought the FEH from another dealer. Roadside assistance would only tow to the nearest dealer, Bev Smith Ford in Lake Park Florida.

Jury is out as to the problem, but my Air filter and battery filter are in new condition w/stock parts. I use mobil 1 5-20W approve oil long before the oil change is required.

I'm putting the eCVT and the HV battery to the test with my driving style, and if they will fail through use, it will will fail with me and the fake shift in "L".

GaryG

Hi Gary:

___I have heard of a triangle of death in the Prius’ but I am not too familiar with all the ways in which it has been received other then when running out of gas. You are not out of gas so that is not it.

___I remember hearing about an individual whose Prius II died in a similar fashion about a year ago and IIRC, there was about $8K worth of HW replaced under warranty including an MGSet or the Transaxle IIRC. If you follow the YaHoo Prius Tech forums back from maybe 1 year prior and before, you should run into it as I am guessing that is where I had seen the writeup?

___Good Luck

___Wayne

If the FEH driveline is as similar to the Prius one as they
say, then the "surging" in Park is amply explainable. You'd
probably feel it with the engine idling in neutral, too.
Since the engine and two motors and final-drive to the
wheels are permanently meshed, any variation in engine speed
[esp. including when it's trying to crank] can only be
countered by a change in spin rate of the small MG, aka
MG1 in prius-lingo. But that small MG still has significant
rotor mass, so the countertorque of its inertia shows up
through the rest of the driveline -- all the way out to
the wheels, where you feel it through the rest of the car.
.
This may also explain the "rattling" to some extent. If a
compression-test "cranking request" is done on a Prius via the
scantool, with the spark plugs still in, it feels like the
engine is being bodily ripped out of the car. Harmless, but
sort of disturbing. If the engine isn't starting and running
for whatever reason, the hybrid system will still be trying to
spin it up, or maybe it's running poorly and unevenly, and
every one of those torque blips from the engine backlashes
through the drivetrain for the same reason.
.
No codes? Curious. Hope you find out what's wrong with
it soon, though!
.
_H*

Wow, that's suprising; keep us updated.

Check around GH for threads about this. I can remember at least two other FEH owners there who had a similar problem involving the sudden shut down. Don't recall what the solution was.

Wow Gary!

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you that they can find & fix this quickly - & with as little damage to your FE as possible;)

And also watching to see what may have caused it - I've been doing a lot of shifting & L-gear fake-shifting too.

Good luck!

Thanks Guys and Debbie

Had a chance to look at the workshop manual and the "Stop Safely Now" indicator illuminated means HEV Hazard. It says the source would be either the PCM, TBCM or the TCM, so this could be serious. Here are the choices they have to repair. 1. Reflash the PCM, or replace and salvage data for a new PCM. 2. Reflash the TBCM, or replace HV battery unit. 3. Reflash the TCM, or replace the eCVT. If a reflash of the program does not correct the problem, none of the units can be repaired internally.

My guess is, it's the eCVT. At any rate, I bet they ruin my TANK average again like their body shop did the last tank.

GaryG

Hi Gary:

___Did the Ford dealership do any diagnosing/repair today?

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Wayne, I don't even know if the Hybrid mechanic was working today. Monday, when I take my Wife to work, I plan to stop in and see what's up. At that point, I plan to talk to him to determine if I need a rental. Don't know if the dealership could even talk to an engineer for the hybrid late Friday or Saturday this Thanksgiving weekend.

I never could get an answer to the burning smell at 4,000 miles when I lost the autolock feature that was only available on the '06 and later models. There is another function I lost at the same time that will not let you lock the FEH with the key in the ignition. They can't just turn their heads on that issue, because it was on all '05 FEH's and mine does not work. The service writer would never return my phone calls on that issue, but when she called about my FEH to comfirm the delivery of my FEH by roadside assistance, I told her to repair the lock problem also.

You can bet Ford Engineers know about my progress with FE with the FEH from these forums we post on. I'm sure Ford does not want me to have a bad experience with their service and warranty. Roadside Service was excellent, and made it to me in 30min. The service writer even offerred me a free rental only after they determined who I was. My first call from the cell phone to some guy at the dealership said no rental would be provided because I purchased the FEH from another dealership, and was not part of the Ford warranty. Besides, I've bought 14 new Fords from this dealership for my family and friends. This should all be interesting because no one has reported the kind of problem I'm having. On top of that, I had the SG for codes and the navi to see what the energy screen was reporting.

As soon as I find anything out, it will be reported on CMPG first!

GaryG

Hi Gary:

___Thanks for the update. I was expecting to hear that the dealer ran one of their advanced scanners and pulled stored codes we may not have access to with an SG-I/II or something?

___WRT special treatment because of your online presence, I doubt it. The local service rep would not be any more accommodating to you as he/she would to anybody else given they do not contact Ford Engineers when they bring in a Ford anything. Sounds just like a normal service call given you are not in a rental right now and roadside assistance is probably measured by minutes to customer vs. who or what said customer is driving.

___In any case, it will be interesting to hear the outcome as a disabled hybrid is rarely heard of.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Glenda is my service rep at BEV SMITH FORD. She was the service manager for years and left for a number of years, but a year or so ago came back as the assistant manager. She knows me from many years back when she was just a service rep.

My FEH should have never came with autolock, but it did by mistake. Ford stated that they were having problems with autolock in the FEH '05 models, so they choose to correct the problem before adding it to the '06.

Over a year ago, we spent a lot of time on the autolock issue and my burning smell problem. Glenda was trying to get answers from Ford at that time, but all of a sudden she stopped returnning my phone calls. I gave up because my mileage and everything else was great.

A number of people that went to to Dearborn Event in '05 stated that some Ford Engineers were monitoring GH and liked the "You Know Your A Hybrid Owner When You...". Can't say for sure they read my post then, but they would have been stupid not too. For sure they monitored the sites after the Dearborn Event given the number of people who showed up and talked about GH and the Yahoo FEH site.

The Roadside service was standard, no question.

As far as the hotline to Ford, who knows? The advance scanners are reading PCM, TCM and TBCM for codes. I have the manuals for those codes, and can report what they say on GH.

GaryG

Hi Gary:

___The following links might give you some idea about your FEH vs. what others have seen in the Prius II wrt to their own “Triangle of Death”. Just read the responses afterwards as Prius’ have similar problems every once in a great while as well. I am not sure that any of them are relavent given I did not read through each of them but it may help?

___There was another write-up a few years back about something that really went haywire in an individual Prius I or II where a whole slew of electronic and mechanical parts needed replaced but I did not find that particular thread in the PTS forum. It may be in the Prius 2G however?

Dreaded Triangle of Death. (http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Prius_Technical_Stuff/message/10547)

Red Triangle of Death - definitive study? (http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Prius_Technical_Stuff/message/14842)

Pass of Death Conquered! (http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Prius_Technical_Stuff/message/17915)

Triggered: P3191/P3101. (http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Prius_Technical_Stuff/message/19017)

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Hi All,

Well, I got my Little Mule back at 5:00 p.m. today and she is running great. This morning I stopped by the dealership after dropping my wife off at work. The Hybrid mechanic Joey had been talking to the experts on the “hotline” and was reprogramming everything. Glenda, the SA let me stay with Joey while he fixed the problems. He had a small computer plugged into to OBD 2 plug where we connect the scangauge and was doing all the repairs with his computer. He took programming from my PCM and reprogrammed my PCM with that data somehow. He said if he had to replace the eCVT, the engine had to be removed as a unit. The problems I reported were confirmed by Joey when he tried to start my Little Mule, but he knew it could be a computer problem. We both were happy when things started acting right.

At one point, he almost drove my Mule into a wall after he reprogrammed the ABS (brakes) because the brake pedal sensor needed to be adjusted by the computers. It looks like you not only need to be a mechanically inclined person, but a computer geek also to fix cars today.

Joey said I had loss regenerative braking codes PO500 1A613, he also had to reprogram the ABS module and recalibrated the travel sensors. They gave me a Hotline report number #6K1BE001 and an OASIS ID #107 240 837 for what that’s worth. He wanted to drive and check the FEH then and also drive it after it was cold latter in the day before I picked it up.

Joey did a multi-point inspection and I’m glad the battery filter, air filter and everything else was in new condition. Both the battery filter and air filter were motorcraft which cost me a bundle. The eCVT fluid looked great, but I’m ready for a oil change and have the parts. He knew the oil could wait for 10,000 miles, and knew I was on top of things which made me feel good. Thanks to Wayne Gerdes, he agreed mobil 1 5-20W was the best I could use. He did say always use 5-20W in the FEH. These guys are checking for maintenance, to defer cost and warranty. I was prepared, are you?

Joey left me with a 30mpg tank average with 38 miles on a full tank. I should be able to bring that average up to a nice average this time.

It appears the Ford Escape Hybrid is built better than a rock. Trust me, I drive my Mule like it will last forever. Today, my Mule is still a hard working animal..You cannot break this thing!

GaryG

Hi Gary:

___So it was an ECU that lost its programming? That is actually great to hear as it was just a few clicks of some buttons to bring her right back to normal.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

I would be concerned as to what caused the data dump or scramble.

It was probably a mistimed FAS ;) :P

Gary,
Great to hear that things worked out OK. I have one question though... What was your inspiration for the name "Little Mule"? When I first noticed that name, I instantly thought of the movie "Romancing the Stone" with Micheal Douglas. One of the characters had a Ford Ranger (I think it was a Ranger) that he called his "Lil Mule". That truck put on quite a show in a chase scene over the rugged terrain near Cartegenia (Columbia)?

Garage-door-opener controlled drawbridges! That was fun.
.
_H*

Gary,
Great to hear that things worked out OK. I have one question though... What was your inspiration for the name "Little Mule"? When I first noticed that name, I instantly thought of the movie "Romancing the Stone" with Micheal Douglas. One of the characters had a Ford Ranger (I think it was a Ranger) that he called his "Lil Mule". That truck put on quite a show in a chase scene over the rugged terrain near Cartegenia (Columbia)?

You got it Dan. For a while, I thought my FEH was like that Ranger and have called it my little mule to my family for a long time. When I thought I broke it, I felt it was personal like a part of our hard working family tring to make it through the tough times of high gas prices. No matter how much I load her up, she gets the MPG I love every time. Wayne has met me, my wife and my youngest kid and I'm 280 pounds. Both my sons are 6'2 and 6'3 and my daughter is 5'11, so the mule packs a big load at times. It doesn't matter as some have suggested.

I've owned 4 four wheel drives and the best by far was a '86 V6 STX extended cab Ranger with a factory roll bar w/lights. It was like a tonka toy pulling everything out of the swamps and sand dunes with factory all terrain tires. The FEH has earned the "lil Mule" status IMO. Just because it ate some bad peyote, it still can travel the roads at a good pace today.

My FEH ran like a champ today. No changes to the way it runs like every day, it's still a little mule built better than a rock.

GaryG