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I’ve been playing with where to press on the gas pedal for the most sensitivity in controlling the I-FCD. I've been used to pressing the bottom half of the pedal with just the top part of my foot. But this doesn’t seem to work well for varying the really tiny amounts of pressure I need to control the instantaneous gauge. So I’ve tried laying my foot completely flat over the entire length of the plate. That seems to increase sensitivity but my foot doesn’t want to stay flat--my heel gradually lifts and I'm pressing with my upper foot again. So I slid my foot up to where I’m holding my leg higher and pressing only the very top edge of the pedal. That seems to give me the most control when applying or releasing pressure but (obviously) it tires my leg!

Question is, is it my imagination that it matters exactly where I press on the pedal? Is the pressure being sensed mechanically (as it seems) or electronically? What position has worked for others?

I will have to pay closer attention, but I belive I rest heal on the floor and use the tops of my toes to press on the pedal. I belive with my heal as a pivot it gives me more control. Half the time I just rest my foot on the pedal and don't apply any pressure and its just enough to keep the assist off and allow the car to slowly decellerate in a kind of glide.

Tarabell - the throttle linkage is, indeed, electronic. Some (like myself) don't like that, and wish it were mechanical, because we think we'd have more finite control over it.

I've pretty much always (even before learning to DWL) used a 'heel pivot' technique - that is, my heel rests on the floor, and when my foot / ankle / leg is 'straight', it's in position for the brake.

When I want to use the throttle, I pivot the foot to actually hit the mid-part of the pedal - this will generally put my foot at about 45 deg. (roughly). As I emulate it sitting here, it's really a foot / lower leg movement, and I can feel some change in my thigh muscle, as well.

I use this probably because I've always been a 'city' driver, with the stop / go inherent in same, and I feel it allows me to lessen my reaction time for braking.. About the only time I can recall consciously deviating from this is when I'm on an extended highway trip, where I don't anticipate having to constantly brake.

If you're familiar with heel / toe downshifting technique (performance driving), what I'm describing is kind of the opposite (although in heel / toe, the ball or front of your foot is on the brake, and the heel is on the throttle, where my heel is on the floor, unless I'm panic-braking).

This method still allows me to have a good amount of control / tactile feel for the throttle, while allowing me to rapidly cover the brake. The downside is that you'll wear out the carpeting on the OEM floormat (but then, you were going to get replacements for those anyway, right ? LOL)

As far as the right amount of throttle pressure - I've seen your (?) posts where you state the same throttle pressure returns different results at different days / times. Well, I can tell you that you are NOT imagining things - this happens to me, too.

I konw one condition that will cause it - in the first few miles from cold, before the engine warms up. It's almost like the older HCH or Insights with the lean-burn engine - the first few miles, anything above, say, 55 on the iFCD is difficult to maintain w/o losing speed, and even the off-throttle pegging of the iFCD can be delayed. But after the ICE comes up to temp, you can get into the 'plus' territory, as I like to call it.

For my accelleration, I use as little assist as possible - stop-n-slow, I can get away with no assist sometimes, while in less congested traffic, I generally have about 3-4 bars assist. Unless you're going straight up a steep incline from a stop, I think 4 bars is probably about the max, and if you can keep it to three, that's even better. You'll note that the ICE is generally spinning at 1700-2000 rpm during this time - right in it's main efficiency area. This is, of course, dependent on whether you're on flat / incline / decline, and the steepness of same.

During the *very* beginning of the accelleration phase (up to about 15mph), you'll be in the 10mpg range on the iFCD (2 bars). Almost immediately, you should see two more bars appear - this indicates 20mpg, and what has happened is that the gear ratio has changed on the CVT - similar to an upshift, except it's 'hidden' from you. After about 30mph, you have a choice, depending on your target speed. If it's in the 30-35mph range, start easing off on the throttle *just* a bit - you'll turn off the (visible) assist, while continuing to gain speed. If it's faster than that, then continue to maintain your throttle. After 40mph, you can lose the assist entirely, unless you're merging on an expressway.

As you approach your target speed, start easing up on the accellerator, until you reach your target speed w/ about 50mpg on the iFCD. You can still accellerate at 50mpg, albeit slower. Once at your target speed, ease up on the throttle a goodly bit - aim for 70-75mpg at a steady-state cruise. If you're on any sort of a downhill, you can start aiming for the 100mpg territory.

My observations seem to be that if I actually peg the meter at 100, even at a steady-state cruise, that the ICE seems to be in it's EV-mode. Note that I'm not losing speed for this period, but if I listen closely, the ICE is a lot quieter, just as when it's in its EV-mode. I don't have any visible assist bars (but the tach will be at about 1100 rpm). I also get the telltale ICE restart after a few seconds, and the iFCD drops again.

This is what's working for me, with 3K on the clock in winter temps, on winter gas (ie; I may find myself making adjustments later). YMMV :)

Tarabell

What you are seeing in your foot placement and such is correct. On the 8th Gen. Civics the throttle pedal was changed to a bottom pivit. Pedal attachs to the floor. This has bothered many a new Civic owner. Be it DX/LX/EX/Si/Hybrid, Coupe or Sedan. So the point of the most leverage would be the top of the pedal. On a top mounted or hinged pedal it would be the bottom of the pedal. I have a rather large foot so I drive with my foot all over the pedal and spend more time pulling my big clod hoper back than pushing. A work boot alone can do WOT if placed on the pedal. :)

I hate to say it but your just going to have to work with foot placement verses control. And you may end up with several placements to meet the need at that moment.

Hi Tarabell:

___I cannot add much more then what Tom, Mark, and Psy have already added (in excellent detail I might add) but I do recommend that for maximum feel, you try driving without your shoes. You will find the most comfortable (or uncomfortable ;)) position in short order but you will also feel every movement with much greater accuracy then if you were wearing shoes. Imagine the feel of the wheel you would have if you placed winter gloves on your hands. Your feet with shoes on them offer about the same amount of feel as thick gloves on your hands. Just a suggestion for you to try as anytime I really push a segment or tank, my right shoe is usually off … Unless of course its 40 degrees or less outside meaning 55 or less inside :D

___Good Luck

___Wayne

I went to run an errand at lunch today, and need to make a correction -

The HCH2 *can* maintain 100mpg for periods under ICE-on conditions. I was doing that about an hour ago.

Also - to answer the OP's question more directly - the iFCD is *very* responsive to *very* slight changes in throttle. When I first got the car, I noticed that my steady-state cruise would have the iFCD at 40mpg (!) if I wasn't careful. I found myself raising the pedal a 'significant' distance to get the iFCD from 'minus' 10% to 'plus' 10% territory.

Now, my foot is much more trained to the HCH 2 - but I still use the iFCD in my gauge display :)

Hope that helps...and sorry for the error.

Hi Mark:
The HCH2 *can* maintain 100mpg for periods under ICE-on conditions. I was doing that about an hour ago.___I would not dare call that an error, I call it a revelation ;)

___Good Luck

___Wayne

I've pretty much always (even before learning to DWL) used a 'heel pivot' technique - that is, my heel rests on the floor, and when my foot / ankle / leg is 'straight', it's in position for the brake.

Yes that's my normal position (the first one I described) and the ball of my foot is pressing the middle of the pedal.


As far as the right amount of throttle pressure - I've seen your (?) posts where you state the same throttle pressure returns different results at different days / times. Well, I can tell you that you are NOT imagining things - this happens to me, too.

I think my feelings were closer to "why the @#$ can't I make this effing I-FCD stay on the right" but you got my sense very well. :o


I konw one condition that will cause it - in the first few miles from cold, before the engine warms up. It's almost like the older HCH or Insights with the lean-burn engine - the first few miles, anything above, say, 55 on the iFCD is difficult to maintain w/o losing speed, and even the off-throttle pegging of the iFCD can be delayed. But after the ICE comes up to temp, you can get into the 'plus' territory, as I like to call it.

Thinking back on when I have the most trouble now, I tend to agree it's been mostly in my morning work commute. The I-FCD refuses to follow protocol and my car says "less accelerator pressure? well I'll slow down then...like...you expected something else?" But by the time I've gone about 10 miles (similar to your earlier post) the I-FCD and car is responding more as expected. I also seem to think (but might be imagining) that it also happens when my SoC is low. Correlation?


My observations seem to be that if I actually peg the meter at 100, even at a steady-state cruise, that the ICE seems to be in it's EV-mode. Note that I'm not losing speed for this period, but if I listen closely, the ICE is a lot quieter, just as when it's in its EV-mode. I don't have any visible assist bars (but the tach will be at about 1100 rpm). I also get the telltale ICE restart after a few seconds, and the iFCD drops again.


I find it easier and easier to go into that exact mode with no assist & no charge bars displayed. Typically I'm happy at that point and don't try for any assist. I also agree that the motor is extremely quiet. The only thing is I'm pretty sure my tach is more like at 2K, but will verify next time--this could be during freeway driving. I haven't really noticed at low speeds.

The other thing I notice about accelerating is that if I give very brief releases to the gas pedal during my ramp up--but always returning to the same previous pressure--my rpms and assist bars drop sharply so I assume this means I've gone to a higher gear? Is this a good thing to do--this sort of "release&tap...release&tap" of the accelerator?

Tarabell

What you are seeing in your foot placement and such is correct. On the 8th Gen. Civics the throttle pedal was changed to a bottom pivit. Pedal attachs to the floor. This has bothered many a new Civic owner. Be it DX/LX/EX/Si/Hybrid, Coupe or Sedan. So the point of the most leverage would be the top of the pedal.....
I hate to say it but your just going to have to work with foot placement verses control. And you may end up with several placements to meet the need at that moment.

Yes I went out today and got in a rather awkward position to look at it. So it IS exactly like pushing a lever with the fulcrum at one end--the way it feels. I was wondering if it was that or the whole thing just plunged straight in. Plus there's a cable going to the top of the gas pedal. I'm now also wondering if it senses how much pressure is being applied to the pedal before moving it. In other words, your foot can be touching the pedal--and even pressing against the pedal for some measurable range of pressure--before the pedal is actually forced to move.

I do recommend that for maximum feel, you try driving without your shoes. You will find the most comfortable (or uncomfortable ;)) position in short order but you will also feel every movement with much greater accuracy then if you were wearing shoes.


I wasn't going to mention this in my original post, thinking all those accusations of not having a life would be validated, :eek: but yes I have also taken off my right shoe several times to drive and it's worked well. The only thing is when you hit your brake you want your foot to hit it rigidly--and without a shoe, mine tends to curl around it (like throwing a bean bag at it) so it doesn't feel as safe. But there's no question there is more sensitivity.

The thought I'm having now is that driving this car requires many more of your senses than driving previous cars. Not only are you watching your gauges and the road more closely (e.g., observing inclines I previously hadn't), but you are feeling the car in your seat and through your foot, and listening to the engine all at the same time. If I was a dog I don't doubt I'd eventually get feedback from the car through smell too.

The HCH2 *can* maintain 100mpg for periods under ICE-on conditions. I was doing that about an hour ago.


I'm not sure where your original misstatement was--here?
My observations seem to be that if I actually peg the meter at 100, even at a steady-state cruise, that the ICE seems to be in it's EV-mode.

I guess I need to know the significance of maintaining 100mpg with ICE-on vs ICE-off? There's an advantage?

No-Comments from me on this. I think I will just continue to read this Thread and continue to observe. :)

Terry

Tarabell

There is nothing in the cable or pedal to sense pressure on the pedal. It has a return spring system on it just like any other throttle system be it mechanical with a butterfly valve in the intake air flow with a throttle position sensor. Or a drive by wire system like we have on our Civics. The so called weighted throttle pedal feel is soley from the spring Honda used.

Seeing this I went out and looked at the Accord and the Civics throttle feel from under the hood. The Accord has a much more robust feel there. Its pedal is a top hinged affair with a long arm. So the springs will be much heavier because there is more leverage built into the desin by default.

With the Civic's bottom mount point it has a much lighter spring arrangment than the Accords. There is also less leverage in the pedal its self due to the mounting and pivit point.

I like it for WOT. Just put my big foot a tad high on the pedal and redline is forth coming very quickly. Its like the pedal dives for the floor. IMO this type of arrangemnt has made a car thats sensitve to throttle that much more challenging to drive when small adjustments are need.

Hondas way of doing this reminds me of early 1950's cars. I cant think of the last car Ive owned with a floor mounted throttle pedal. Its not been common place to do this for years. I adjusted to it very fast. Like soon as I pulled out of the dealership. I also knew before purchase that it was like this. But many have complained about it. And nobody can fig. out why Honda did this.