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Well, after lurking about these forums for some time now and getting lots of good information, I've decided to get an HS.

Because I can't live without the Mark Levinson stereo, I'm going to place a special order and patiently await my new car. (And for the sake of this thread, spare me any lectures about how the ML option isn't worth it...that may be true, but I want it anyway).

I would like to hear your thoughts on the optional LED headlights. That's an $1800 option that I'm not sure is remotely worth it. It sounds cool, but they are just headlights and I live in a big city, so it's not like I drive around along dark country roads where special illumination matters.

I know the LEDs use less energy, but I can't imagine that fact has anything more than a negligible impact on milage.

Thoughts on the LED headlights?

(As a side note, what's up with a nearly $50K automobile not having HID xenon headlights, let alone LEDs...)

I also wanted the LED headlights. However ... after considering (and reconsidering) the cost ... I went with the "stock" lights. In order to get the LED's ... I would have had to get the technology package "bundled" in also ... unless it was special ordered.

However ... if I were going to special order ... I would get the ML audio, LED's, and Navi.

Reasons: I'm an audiophile, increased visibility at night is important to me, and I'm geographically impaired (humor).

Hi Argelius:

___If you like music, by all means choose the Levinson system as the stock system although OK is nothing like the OEM systems in the BMW, MB and Audi’s. It lacks punch, clarity and especially midrange given our extensive time in the HS while crossing the country and back last week.

___I wish I could help you with the LED’s and will ask tomorrow if I can take a loaded HS with the tech package installed out to get a feel for the LED’s. At the pre-launch Preview, I drove the tech package but it was during the day so lighting made no difference.

___Regarding a $50K vehicle not having... The BMW 335d we drove this past spring had NAVI as an option and the HS we drove across lacked NAVI. Very disconcerting given the $'s spent vs. a whole host of lesser vehicles that can be equipped with some of these options for a lot less.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Personally I don't think there's anything wrong with a good set of halogen headlamps. If the OEM fixture is fundamentally sound, get some high-quality (not the gimmicky blue-tint kind) aftermarket bulbs. You will get bright, white, high-quality light without any worries about the growing pains associated with a brand-new technology.

Hi Tim:

___If you had the option to include a good set of HID's, Halogen's would not be on your selection list. When driving the 335d last spring, the high beams at night would allow you to land a jet airliner on the Interstate with a mile ahead view up front. It was the most impressive lighting display I have experienced in an automobile.

___Even while on regular output, it was so clean, clear and bright vs. the HID kits and std. HID's as equipped in the second gen Prius it would make for a very nice upgrade on the higher end lux vehicles if they are not so equipped standard.

___All that said, I do not know how the LED's will appear and I doubt they have the lumens that a great set of HID's have. FE gains... On a Prius there might be a few tenths at night but on a 2.4L HS or more powerful Audi, it is not going to be much.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Oh, I believe that the BMW...as with most high-end european cars...has HIDs to die for. But it bears mentioning that what you saw wasn't so much the HID component as it was the optics wrapped around it. It's the glass between the capsule and the road that gets you the crisp cut off and even light distribution that make your lumens so satisfying. What HID gets you beyond that is somewhat higher color temperature (closer to sunlight) and some efficiency. But a high-quality Philips or Osram bulb will get you a lot closer than you might expect from the OEM equipment in terms of light quality. You just have to start with a nice projector assembly.

The problem with the G2 Prius headlamps (both HID and halogen) is that they use an old-school faceted reflector that gives you all these stupid little hot spots and a cut off that is literally impossible to aim satisfactorily. (I did caveat that you want a good-quality fixture, but I sure didn't say I have such a setup on my own car. ;) The new bulbs make it "fine".) Could be worse, though. Wanna be scared? Go find yourself a late 90s Chrysler minivan and go for drive on a dark and stormy night. Bring spare undies!

So I guess the answer to the OP's question is...uhh...test drive the Lexus at night, and don't buy an old minivan by accident.

I like the HID's on our 08 genII. We had them on our 1st 05 genII and the difference in projected lumens was significant over the 2010 halogen. When I ordered the 10, I called several contacts at Toyota and begged and pleaded as well as sent numerous emails wanting the LED's on our pkg IV. No dice, no way could I get them. I got the same answer over and over. The LED's on our package would compromise the mpg. (I don't believe it).

The led technology is still evolving. Cree led's are great. I have a 500 lumen Cree flashlight ($60) that will run on up to 18 volts DC with the circuitry. I have considered experimenting on my pickup by installing one of these in each headlight. I thought by now that an inexpensive aftermarket led kit would be sold by someone.

Mike, my understanding is that though you could mount high power LEDs the reflector optics have to be completely different because the "bulbs" simply don't have anywhere near the same dispersal pattern.

I've taken the above info to mean that there won't be aftermarket kits because the entire assembly would have to be replaced. :(

Yes, that is probably quite true. The same generally holds for dropping HIDs into reflector housings. The light source is no longer outputting light in the same way as before, leading to suboptimal output. Another problem with high power LEDs is the heat. True, they don't make a lot of heat compared to halogen bulbs. But the heat that they do make is similar to other semiconductor devices in that it's not really radiated and can be quite detrimental to the device's life. Proper cooling is required, which is another impediment to aftermarket kits.

Tim, you're right that the optics play a big role. Without good control of the light, making more light is useless. But halogens still are easily beaten by xenons in terms of lumens. The xenon D1S bulbs in the 3-series make about 3000 lumens a piece. For comparison, Osram Silverstar H7 bulbs (H7 is the 3-series' halogen bulb) are a little under 2000, and a standard H7 is around 1500.

Thanks, all, for your thoughts. I had no idea the question would generate so many responses. (At lexusownersclub.com I mainly got snotty answers referencing "it's just a gussied up Prius", which has nothing to do with my post). I just hate car snobs...but I digress.

You might want to talk a stroll through priuschat, and search on the LED's that are going into the Prius. I'm not sure how close they are to being comparable, but someone had shots of LED vs either halogen or HID.

Hi Argelius:

___I contacted the National Lexus communication lead, Bill Kwong and he passed along the LED tech write-up as follows:

2010 Lexus HS 250h – LED and AFS

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/2010_HS_250h_LED.jpgLED headlight system is capable of instant illumination and of ensuring a long service life. It is used for the low beam headlights. The LED headlight package includes: Intelligent Adaptive Front-lighting System (AFS), Intelligent High-Beam System and Headlight washers.

The Intelligent Adaptive Front-lighting System (AFS) ensures a wide range of low beam lighting area and realize excellent visibility during turning by moving the low beams to the inside of the cornering direction (see illustration 1 and 2).

The Automatic High Beam System detects lights in front of the vehicle and automatically changes between high beams and low beams to support the driver during night driving.

Models with the LED Headlight System also include Automatic Headlight Beam Level Control System. When the headlights are on, the automatic headlight beam level control system operates the headlight level actuators in accordance with movement of the vehicle.

We should be able to shoot an image for you this Thursday evening. It will be with my point and shoot.

___Some of this was covered in the 2010 HS 250h preview and various write-ups here at CleanMPG but it may be new to you?

___Hopefully Bill will have some side by side point and shoot photos of the HS’ Halogen and LED’s for us by the end of the week!

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Now I understand where the $1800 goes. That's about the most "active" headlight system I've ever heard of.

Throwing financial caution to the wind (mainly because I'm getting rid of a perfectly good, practically brand new vehicle), I placed an order for an HS: Premium, Black/Mica Grey, Navigation, Technology, Mark Levinson, and....tuh-duh....LED Headlights -- I decided I might as well get the whole shebang.

Now the process of patiently waiting starts

Well thanks, all, for your valuable input. I'm sure I'll be back here with more questions and, hopefully, observations of my own!

Happy to hear about your decision. I hope your wait isn't too long.

Hi All:

___Given all the items that Toyota/Lexus PR reps are having to deal with as of late, Bill found the time to send me a few pics of the HS’ Halogen’s vs. LED’s side by side. I like the LED's more natural white color and both appear to have an approximately equal Lumens output.

2010 Lexus HS 250h – Halogen vs. LED side by side

Halogen left – LED Right – Silver HS is equipped with LED’s and Black HS is equipped with Halogen’s.
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/2/Lexus_HS250h_-_Halogen_vs_LED_Collage.jpg
Halogen left – LED Right – Silver HS is equipped with LED’s and Black HS is equipped with Halogen’s.

Close-up of the Halogens and LED's side by side

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/2/Lexus_HS250h_-_Halogn_vs_LED.jpg
Halogen’s (left) and LED/Halogen’s (right).

___Thank you Bill!

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Seems more than adequate to me. :)

___If you had the option to include a good set of HID's, Halogen's would not be on your selection list. When driving the 335d last spring, the high beams at night would allow you to land a jet airliner on the Interstate with a mile ahead view up front. It was the most impressive lighting display I have experienced in an automobile.



Headlights this bright I would consider to be a safety hazard both to other drivers and to the driver of the car sporting these bright headlights. The Automatic High Beam System isn't going to sense headlights and dim the lights when it is coming up behind another vehicle, so it will be blinding the driver of the preceeding vehicle via the side mirrors reflection and these superbright headlights can even overwealm the dimming feature of the inside rear view mirror. Also does the Automatic High Beam System detect the dimmer headlights of oncoming bicycles and smaller motorcycles/scooters/mopeds?

Another blinding scenario is as the car crests a hill, the oncoming traffic gets blasted with the superbright beams being projected at a low angle that on a level road would normally be striking the pavement just on front of the car. And it doesn't matter if the high or low beams are used, the oncoming traffic is going to be blinded at these angles. This scenario is particularly bad in residential areas with steep driveways leading up to the road and at intersections where one road joins the intersection with a steep upward angle, which is common in hilly areas. Its blinding enough with halogens, but HIDs make it even worse. With an expanding population of older drivers with poorer night vision and slower recovery of night vision after being headlight blinded, I would consider superbright headlights to be a safety hazard. I wonder how many night time head-on collisions and "single" vehicle running off the road accidents are the result of drivers being blinded by overly bright headlights and then losing sight/reference of the location of the road surface in front of them.

I agree, many cars' headlights are getting to be too bright now and they can be seriously dangerous to other drivers when cresting a hill. For flatlanders this may not be a big deal, but our terrain is very uneven and people are constantly getting blasted in the face by others' low beams. And even in my 40s I've noticed a significant decrease in my night vision versus when I was in my 20s. Can't imagine how I'll see at all at night when I'm my 80s.

Unfortunately DOT regulates headlights based on electrical wattage, not output. A conventional 55w halogen headlight puts out somewhere in the ballpark of 1000 lumens, but HIDs and LEDs can put out at least 3-4x that amount while staying under the 55W limit. Idiotic.

I would support a limit of 1500 lumens per side of the car.