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View Full Version : Efficient cars a tough sell with U.S. buyers: panel


xcel
10-31-2006, 12:04 AM
Most people want horsepower. They don't want fuel economy. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/27/AR2006102701013.html)

Scott Malone - Reuters - Oct. 27, 2006

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/06_European_Prius_II.jpg
The iconic Prius helped spark U.S. consumer interest in fuel saving technology.

BOSTON - Designing a more fuel efficient car can be less of a challenge than selling one.

But with the number of autos on the world's roads expected to triple over the next half-century and fuel prices expected to rise, automakers need to focus on both problems.

That was the message from a panel of automotive experts at The World Oil Conference on Friday.

"Most people want horsepower. They don't want fuel economy," said Bill Reinert, national manager of advanced technology for the U.S. arm of Toyota Motor Corp.

His company introduced the iconic Prius gasoline-electric hybrid, which helped to spark U.S. consumer interest in the technology, which pairs an internal combustion engine with an electric motor to use less gasoline. Rivals, including Honda Motor Co., Ford Motor Co. and General Motors Corp have also introduced hybrids.

Consumers have become more interested in fuel efficient vehicles as gasoline prices have risen. U.S. retail gasoline prices peaked above $3 per gallon this summer, driven by rising use and concerns about limited long-term petroleum supplies.

But as gasoline prices have eased back down to around $2.20 per gallon, consumer concerns about fuel economy have faded - evidenced by a recent bounce-back in the sale of light trucks.

"The consumer doesn't care about fuel economy. What they care about is how much does it cost me to go from home to work?" said Andy Frank, a professor at the University of California at Davis.

LEAPS OR BABY STEPS?

Frank is a proponent of plug-in hybrid cars, which at low speeds can run on electricity drawn from home power outlets and stored in batteries. He argued that power drawn from the electricity grid would compare in cost to gasoline at 70 cents per gallon.

While that could lead to enormous savings in gasoline usage, plug-in hybrids are seen as even more of a niche product than gasoline hybrids, which would limit their overall influence on fuel consumption. No major automaker has introduced one to the United States market.

To reduce demand for gasoline - which represents about 30 percent of the U.S.'s petroleum usage - a more effective strategy would be to improve the efficiency of traditional gasoline engines, which power the lion's share of cars bought in the United States, said John Heywood, a professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

"There's a lot of improvement potential in everything and what really matters is getting lots of those improved engines and transmissions out there, fast," Heywood said.

Beyond consumer reaction to rising gasoline prices, though, automakers have another incentive to focus on reducing fuel consumption. Regulators in the United States and abroad have begun to pay more attention to the contributions of car emissions - including carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases - to global warming.

Last month, California sued six of the world's largest automakers, including Toyota, Honda, Ford and GM, charging that emissions from their vehicles have caused billions of dollars in damages. The suit was the first of its kind against automakers, but mirrored claims brought by governments against makers of cigarettes, which sought to recoup some of the costs of treating smoking-related illnesses.

"I know we're seen mostly as the cigarette industry throughout the world," Reinert said. "To a certain extent, we do deserve that, our lobbying efforts have been mostly successful."

tigerhonaker
10-31-2006, 07:00 AM
Last month, California sued six of the world's largest automakers, including Toyota, Honda, Ford and GM, charging that emissions from their vehicles have caused billions of dollars in damages. The suit was the first of its kind against automakers, but mirrored claims brought by governments against makers of cigarettes, which sought to recoup some of the costs of treating smoking-related illnesses.

That is from the Thread above and who would have ever thought you would be reading that. Interesting though.

I do have to agree with the comment made in same Article that said something to the effect that consumers are more interested in {Performance} than FE. It is very obvious when anyone looks at the Magazines and the Articles that are in them. They are all for the most part about "High-Performance" vehicles that are out now or coming out. Almost all the vehicles that are here where I live are the Large SUV's and pickup trucks. You do see Hybrids here but the Percentage of Hybrids to the other vehicles is very small in comparison.

Now that fuel has dropped down way below the $3.50 per gallon price tag as the Article points out more consumers are going right back to the Performance side of the vehicles being purchased and driven.

Just one more thought comes to mind regarding the public and the lower fuel cost. I very seldom now have anyone ask me about my 06 HCH II and it's FE. Infact I now here comments like this, When are you going to get rid of that Toy-Car and get you a Grown-Up Real-Vehicle with a Real-Motor in it.

It's interesting to see how very "Quickly" people forget about all the (Complaining/Griping) they were doing just Months ago, and now here they Fall right back into the same Gas Hogs they were just "Complaining" about and wondering how they could take the Loss in trade in Value to get rid of them.

I bet I will in the not so "Far Future" get to Witness these same People Complaining again about Their Gas Eating 93-Octane Burning Massive Vehicles. Then we will see who is Laughing or should I say having the {Very-Last-Laugh} :D ME ;)


Terry
BTW, I'm curious? Do others see or here these same things?

brick
10-31-2006, 07:49 AM
This just tells me that it's not a bad time to be in the market if you want to trade for something more efficient.

Chuck
10-31-2006, 07:55 AM
I'd agree with brick.

Back in 2000, the Insight was the only hybrid available. Someone might be able to help, but I really could not think of any new cars that got over 40mpg at that time, so my choice was easy.

psyshack
10-31-2006, 08:27 AM
Its easy to jump on the manufactures. The fact remains.... The first line sums it up. Americans want hp,,, not FE.

We have threads going on about how bad the auto indrusty is. And also about how bad drivers are and how big our foot has become.

It all starts and ends with the consumer.

Chuck
10-31-2006, 10:10 AM
Thank you psyshack for reminding us the problem starts with a society of lead-footed drivers with short memories of $3 gas and unconcerned with it coming back until it slaps them in the face once again.

Heard on the radio about an estimate of the economic damage Climate Change might have in the 21st century. It's a wild guess, but someone said it could be as costly as World Wars I & II and the Great Depression. :eek: Goes on to say action now would be a lot less costly. I see a lot of things that would not require a serious inconvience that could make a difference...

tbaleno
10-31-2006, 11:18 AM
Lest we loose hope in humanity lets remember that sales in vehicles giving poor FE is dropping. Some of those lead foots might be melting.

As far as the cost of fixing global warming problems goes, Maybe the government doesn't want it fixed. Cost to some means profit to others. So if it is going to cost more then it means more stuff is going to be purchased. Thats kind of a backwards way of looking at things, but if you wrap your mind around it it might make a little sense.

AshenGrey
10-31-2006, 12:51 PM
The artificially low gas prices is just a mid-term election scheme. Once November 7th comes and goes, there will be a new "crisis" and gasoline will soar back to $4/gallon or even higher.

On the bright side, that means that Toyota and Honda will make more hybrids!

xcel
10-31-2006, 01:12 PM
Hi AshenGrey:
On the bright side, that means that Toyota and Honda will make more hybrids!
___I would not count on that coming true. Toyota built/sold less Prius II’s this year then last and there is talk that they may not hit 100K sold if there is a sales fall after the halving of the tax credit on Sept. 30. Honda was initially projecting 50,000 HCH-II’s but will probably sell less then 30,000 this year as well. These are production controlled numbers guaranteed given you still do not see them on the lots in quantity vs. Camry’s, Highlanders, and Accord’s as just three examples. Believe me, Toyota and Honda are not doing anyone a favor with this kind of inventory control no matter the price of fuel. Best bet would be to pick up a Civic/Corolla LX/LE for a much discounted price.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Chuck
10-31-2006, 01:29 PM
I hope this is just a lull in hybrid production between climbs. Meanwhile, the production is improving

xcel
10-31-2006, 01:35 PM
Hi Chuck:

___This is a controlled experiment and will more then likely continue in this fashion as time moves forward. Toyota really needs to release the Atkinsonized 1.5 in the Corolla/Yaris and Honda the 1.3 in the non-hybrid Civic with the appropriate tall gearing for the non-hybrid’s at a much lower cost. This hybrid gamesmanship being played out by both Toyota and Honda on the average consumer is not what I would call conducive to a long term business success by any means.

___Then again, the Prius did bring about a change to the average consumers idea of high FE within a nicely equipped and sized automobile.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

rhwinger
11-01-2006, 05:40 AM
I've said it before - when it comes to gas prices, purchases and a lot of stuff, it seems like we are the United States of Amnesia.



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