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View Full Version : GM to Use Cost Savings to Fight Toyota `Green' Cars, People Say.


xcel
10-29-2006, 03:41 AM
Wagoner and Lutz toured GM's hybrid development center for the first time to let researchers know the company is making such technologies a priority. (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=auXqqiS4Jf_8&refer=home)

Jeff Green - Bloomberg - Oct. 27, 2006

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/Chevrolet_Tahoe_DualMode.jpg
Chevrolet Tahoe DualMode could become a PHEV in future years.

General Motors Corp., losing sales to Toyota Motor Corp., will use some of the $9 billion in savings from cost cuts this year to make vehicles that match the Japanese automaker in technology and fuel efficiency, according to people familiar with the strategy.

GM's plans include a hybrid-electric vehicle with a battery that recharges at any outlet, improved gasoline engines, hybrid versions of its Silverado pickup trucks and hydrogen-powered fuel-cell models that emit only water vapor, according to the people, who didn't want to be identified because the plan isn't public. Chief Executive Officer Rick Wagoner will outline the strategy in a speech before the end of the year, one of the people said.

``GM has to change the rules of the game through new technologies because they are simply fighting to not lose share now,'' said Pete Hastings, a fixed-income analyst at Morgan Keegan & Co. in Memphis, Tennessee. ``The first and best to market will be critical for future share dominance.''

Wagoner, 53, is under pressure to return the world's largest automaker to profitability after he shunned an alliance with Renault SA and Nissan Motor Co. GM's board rejected the partnership proposed by Kirk Kerkorian, GM's largest individual investor, in favor of Wagoner's plan to shut factories and increase sales with new models.

Plug-Ins

The company reported a third-quarter loss of $115 million two days ago and said it was spending more cash on its automobile business than it was generating through vehicle sales. GM lost $1.66 billion in the year-earlier quarter.

GM shares have risen 77 percent this year, the biggest gain in the Dow Jones industrial Average. They fell 35 cents to $34.65 yesterday after Merrill Lynch & Co. analyst John Murphy downgraded the stock to ``sell'' from ''buy,'' citing slower progress than he had anticipated.

The Detroit-based automaker has assigned a team of engineers to help develop plug-in hybrids, according to one of the people. The project - known internally as I-car, for Icon car - is meant to be the centerpiece of the new strategy, the people said. Plug-in hybrids recharge when the vehicle isn't in use and switch to the gasoline engine when the batteries are drained.

GM is playing catch-up in ``green car'' technology. Toyota sold 235,000 hybrids worldwide last year, and said in June it plans to double its hybrid models to 14 by early in the next decade and sell 1 million of them annually as early as 2010. GM's first true hybrid, the Saturn VUE Greenline, went on sale this month.

``Toyota has a head start, and it's always a challenge to catch the guy in front,'' said Eric Fedewa, director of powertrain forecasts for consulting firm CSM Worldwide in Farmington Hills, Michigan. ``Toyota dedicated themselves to hybrids much earlier.''

Prius Boost

Demand for the Toyota's hybrids, including the Prius, has helped the Toyota City, Japan-based company boost U.S. sales 11 percent in the year through September. GM sales have dropped 11 percent.

Sherrie Childers Arb, a GM spokeswoman, said the company is exploring a broad range of environmental technologies. She declined to comment on specific plans.

Hybrid vehicles combine electric motors and gasoline engines to use less fuel. Regular hybrids such as the Prius use friction from braking and engine power to recharge the battery for the electric motor, which is used at start-up and lower speeds. The gasoline engine powers the vehicle at higher speeds.

Toyota and Honda Motor Co.'s hybrid vehicles led the U.S. government's list of fuel-efficient 2007 models, released this month. GM didn't have a model in the top 10; Toyota and Honda had seven combined.

`Major Shift'

Wagoner and Vice Chairman Bob Lutz this month toured GM's hybrid development center in Troy, Michigan, for the first time to let researchers know the company is making such technologies a priority, according to people familiar with the visit. In meetings, Wagoner, 53, has stressed the automaker is now fully committed to hybrid and other technologies, they said.

``This is a major shift for GM because in the past it had gone out of its way to criticize the financial viability of hybrids,'' said John Casesa, managing partner at Casesa Strategic Advisors in New York.

The initiative doesn't have a price tag yet, said one of the people. GM has cut $9 billion from its annual spending this year by limiting health-care benefits, firing white-collar employees and getting union workers to retire early and accept buyouts.

In addition to the Saturn VUE, GM plans 11 other hybrid models over the next few years, including full-size SUVs such as the Chevrolet Tahoe and pickups such as the GMC Sierra, both redesigned this year.

Ethanol Blends

Toyota, which is on its way to passing GM in global vehicle sales, is spending a record 920 billion yen ($7.9 billion) on research and development this year. GM spent $6.7 billion last year and hasn't released a 2006 figure.

The U.S. automaker has also said it plans to build 400,000 vehicles next year that use both regular gasoline and a fuel that is 85 percent ethanol and 15 percent gasoline. So far, there are fewer than 1,000 ethanol pumps available at 170,000 U.S. fueling stations, limiting sales of the models.

A decade ago, GM was focused on the EV-1, the first modern electric car. It abandoned the technology because the cars were expensive and needed frequent recharging.

``The biggest risk is that historically GM changes its priorities often,'' said analyst Casesa. ``GM will have to make some tough choices about the things it really wants.''

tarabell
10-29-2006, 12:16 PM
for the first time Wagoner's been chairman/CEO 3 years now.
I've never been a CEO but if I haven't even seen the parts of my company working leading technologies in that time, then I don't see I can be leading anything.

AshenGrey
10-29-2006, 03:26 PM
Let's see... The CEO has visited his factory one time in three years (bad). He's laid off tens of thousands of workers rather than give himself a pay cut (bad). He's on record stating repeatedly that hybrids are a "money-losing fad" (bad). His company sold the patents to the first commercially viable electric car to an OIL COMPANY (very bad). Their first so-called hybrid is actually just a midsized SUV with a 36v alternator (bad). They've taken tens of millions of Federal dollars to create FCVs that cost a million apiece and have a service life of only 25k miles.

But suddenly Lutz and company are hybrid true believers? I think not!

xcel
10-29-2006, 07:41 PM
Hi Tarabell and Ashen:

___I am glad you two discovered the irony of this article. It is a sad state of affairs that GM is pursuing a pie in the sky BS FCV tech all the while they are 10 years behind the Japanese in hybrids with what is on the road today. The Saturn VUE Greenline is a joke and if GM treats the DualMode like they did the Greenline, it will come to be known as a joke too! Let alone the CEO and Chairman visiting their advanced research center for the first time! The FCV itself uses a large Li-Ion as a buffer and an ultra expensive PEM w/ 3 H2 tanks for the real propulsion. Bill Ford has saved the Hybrid vehicle team from the chopping block more then once in the past 4 years and these two numbskulls are treating the real value of GM as if it were beneath them.

___The whole Ovonics NiMH patents sold to Cobasys (Chevron subsidiary) 10 + years ago is simply to mind blowing to contemplate :(

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Chuck
10-29-2006, 09:40 PM
Got an idea - can Honda get the rights to the dual-mode hybrid so somebody will make a good vehicle with it?

Pravus Prime
10-30-2006, 04:44 AM
It's sad that with an announcement of what should be good news and progress, we can't help but see failure and deceipt.

I know, unlike most of you, I'm rather close to the auto industry. I literally live in the shadows of Ford and GM. My family, and most of my friends have at least one relative, if not themselves work for one of the big three. People on message boards often proclaim, "When will Detroit learn?" as if to blame the denziens rather than the corporate boards. Do not think that the people of Detroit are oblivious; far from it, not only are we hyperaware, but when layoffs are announced, that's my friends and family who lose their jobs. When the big three aren't doing well, it's people I know who are forced into hard times. I can't stand people who scoff about being served right when they do poorly; most of us know that it's not going well, and have a plethora of ideas and suggestions that would've both avoided and solved many of our problems, but that doesn't put money into the empty pockets of the workers. The board doesn't listen to the citizens, it listens to the bottom line, and nothing else, I would think everyone would know that by now. That's a little off topic, I know, but I had to say that.

Now, I'm not saying I don't see it either, given past short sighted decisions and their inexcusible execution of hybrids, I honestly doubt we'll see any of what the article states even a decade later from them without some sort of massive shift in consumerism.

Instead, I'm pointing out the irony of us "futuretech" consumers, investing into hybrids and looking for ways to minimize our own dependence on any fuel to look at a major US corporations annoucement in future technology and trying to move away from oil to be met with nothing but disapointment and disbelief. What makes it worse is that none of us can see why we shouldn't see every statement as an outright falsehood. We're all done with running from the fields to scare away the wolf. We're done with hearing their promises that are seldomly kept, and when the do come at least 5 years late.

I know I am. And that's why I don't dislike GM anymore. I pity them. I want them to do well, as well as Ford and Chrysler, not for their sakes, but for me and my area's. However it's becoming increasingly absurd; like hoping the Lions win the Superbowl. :(

xcel
10-30-2006, 05:04 AM
Hi Rich:

___All well and good. I hope GM and Ford will come out of their stupor soon but when I find out the Chairman and CEO of GM visit a hybrid research facility for the first time recently with the importance that it entails, it shows me the arrogance of these two guys and how little they give a **** for those workers who use that GM paycheck to place a roof over a family’s head or put a child through college. They don’t give a $(*$)@& $#(* and this is exactly what ticks me off!

___We have spoken with Martin many times about what we had hoped to see in the Greenline and what did GM produce? An efficient motor with an ancient tranny and nothing hybrid on the poor thing worth discussing for an almost $2K up charge! You have driven it and I know your feelings … Ford followed this same path with the NAVI unit in the FEH and will probably follow GM’s path with garbage FCD instrumentation (none) in the future Fusion Hybrid. You remember that consumer feedback portion with the gauge cluster build at the Ford Escape Hybrid Fuel Economy Experience ( http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125), right? This makes me shake my head in shame knowing what Honda and Toyota have offered for over seven years now :(

___If they do not listen to those of us that care enough to comment, they have avery short life left imho.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

psyshack
10-30-2006, 07:31 AM
Good bye GM & Ford,,,

Pravus Prime
10-30-2006, 08:44 PM
Wagoner and Lutz toured GM's hybrid development center for the first time to let researchers know the company is making such technologies a priority. (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=auXqqiS4Jf_8&refer=home)


Wagoner and Vice Chairman Bob Lutz this month toured GM's hybrid development center in Troy, Michigan, for the first time to let researchers know the company is making such technologies a priority, according to people familiar with the visit. In meetings, Wagoner, 53, has stressed the automaker is now fully committed to hybrid and other technologies, they said.





Oh, and just in case anyone is wondering.

Ren Cen (GM HQ) to Troy: ~35 miles. With I-75, it's pretty much a straight shot.

And in all likelyhood, they live in Bloomfield Hills, or some other posh neighborhood, which reduces the drive to a whopping 16 miles or so.

I can see how it would be quite the hardship to make it out there. That kind of distance is just insurmountable. ;)

Chuck
10-31-2006, 05:37 PM
To expand on Pravus' family analogy - GM and Ford are like a relative with a severe drug problem....



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