Archives

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/2/AmericanFlag.jpg With half the CO2 emissions and larger reserves, this may be a bridge fuel (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=113043935)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/Natural_Gas_Mining.jpgTom Gjelten - NPR (http://www.npr.org) - Sept 22, 2009

Is this everything clean coal wants to be? --Ed.

First in a three-part series.

In recent years, natural gas producers in the United States have struggled, mostly in vain, to be taken more seriously in the energy world. Big oil companies like Exxon had concluded that natural gas reserves in the United States were not sufficiently abundant to warrant big investments in exploration and drilling. When small independent gas producers argued otherwise, they were often ridiculed.

"I once had to tell the Exxon people in front of a congressional committee that I respectfully disagreed with every single thing they had presented," recalls Robert Hefner, 74, a veteran gas producer from Oklahoma....http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=113043935

Schlumberger is going through the process of getting approvals to build a facility in Horseheads, NY, which is just south of the Finger Lakes. As usual, some of the locals are objecting on environmental grounds, when in reality natural gas is greener than oil, as the article describes.

Schlumberger (a well services and well logging company) wouldn't build in Horseheads unless it expected a lot of drilling in the area, and all that drilling will be for natural gas.

I did see a huge flame while driving one night, which was a new gas well being tested. By the size of the flame, it was producing just fine, enough to be viable. Police had to tell the locals to quit reporting it, that it was a routine test of a new, successful gas well.

Harry

I expect that this will be an important energy resource for the future.

Before you get too excited and start drilling in your backyard beware that the reporting in the article is somewhat misleading in its geology.

1. Shale often (generally?) does not contain natural gas.

2. Shale generally will not support a flame.

3. Gas bearing shale can be found at both shallow (e.g. Antrim Formation in Michigan) and the deep depths the article discusses.

4. "New" is a relative term--they have been extracting gas from the Antrim Formation for at least a couple decades--the new thing is that theory has realized it needs to catch up to practice.

People whose drinking water comes from wells should be concerned about installation of shale gas wells in their water wells' vicinity--article. (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=113142234)

In the past weren't explosives used to fracture formations to release oil??

Schlumberger is/was a big employer in Houma (south Louisiana) when I used to work down there.I would drive by one of their big "yards' everyday on the way to my job. It
Schlumberger has a funny pronunciation down here-slumber jay.First few times I heard it, I had no idea they were talking about the yard I drove by everyday.They pay good wages by most accounts.

Many "offshore" jobs have been cheaped down by hiring "catering" companies who use tempworkers that do lots of the nasty jobs on rigs.Jobs that have nothing to do with food service. Schlumberger pays pretty well.It is hard work of course-dangerous too.

Charlie

Schlumberger has a funny pronunciation down here-slumber jay.

Charlie, that's the correct pronunciation everywhere. It's a French name, apparently, or at least the French pronunciation. I almost took a job with Schlumberger when I first got out of college. Maybe I should have, it would have involved lots of travel and adventure, and good pay.

Harry

I worked summers for a surveying company that got a lot of work from the companies drilling the Marcellus Shale. One of the wells I helped stake out the pipeline right-of-way to is operating. Also, my friend's parents are getting a nice royalty check for the gas being extracted from a well underneath their property near Horseheads.

The fracking fluid is nasty stuff, and they need a lot of water to make it. That's a large issue around Horseheads, I don't know if it's been resolved yet.

In the past weren't explosives used to fracture formations to release oil??

News releases (cover stories?) put out in the '60s about underground nuclear tests said that A-bombs would be used for that purpose, as well as for making caverns to store gas in. I remember a photo in the Weekly Reader of a guy in a miner's helmet with a light standing atop the collapsed rock filling the lower half of a huge cavity made by a nuclear device.

Harry-lots of french names in S Louisiana of course, but I was still surprised to hear it pronounced like that. There are also lots of German/French names-one bayou I crossed on the way to work was bayou des Allemands-which I'm told means bayou of the germans. I think folks from Alsace Lorraine settled there.

Yaris- yes I remember just that-nukes down boreholes to release the oil.

Thanks
Charlie

Of course, if the USA suddenly did have a LOT more natural gas, it could help get us off terrorist-oil. I'd buy a NGV if they were available and had a reasonable number of places to refuel.

Dumb question here: how is natural gas different than propane? All the BJ's Wholesale Clubs sell propane and I was wondering if you could rig up these propane cannisters to a NGV in order to extend one's cruising range.

Dumb question here: how is natural gas different than propane? Not dumb.

Propane is one of several types of natural gas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_gas).

Would it be possible to run a CNGV on propane?

Would it be possible to run a CNGV on propane?

It doesn't seem like it would be much easier than converting from gasoline. I'd bet they're stored at different pressures so you'd probably have to fiddle with the pressure regulation plus whatever adaptation would be needed to get the right mix richness and engineer a place to put the propane bottle. You might not have to worry about materials compatiblility for the fuel lines since I don't recall hearing about methane/propane line conversion problems for home appliances.

About 10 years ago i looked into running on CNG. This is just from memory so take it with a big grain of salt.

*The most simple bi-fuel conversion is LPG. It is even easier than CNG because the pressures are lower.

*Almost all CNG conversion cars can also run on LPG.

*Most CNG vehicles were American cars. Taurus, Crown Vic, etc. The Honda Civic GX was the rare exception. Think fleet vehicles.

*Factory Bi-fuel vehicles are amazingly rare. The reasoning is because the EPA was worried that loose emissions for bi-fuel cars would invite poor conversions or poor efficiency in either on fuel mode or both. This is likely why the Civic GX, which wasn't terribly different than the gasoline model was never made bi-fuel capable.

*Gasoline Catalytic converters don't do anything on CNG vehicles, but the emissions from CNG combustion are actually cleaner than catalytically converted gasoline emissions. CNG cats exist and are even more amazingly clean.

CNG -compressed natural gas??_is probably mainly methane-1 carbon, 4 Hydrogen atoms.It would have a lower boiling point,and therefore it would take higher pressures to compress it to enough density to store a decent weight/mass of it. LPG -Liquidize petroleum gas??- is probably longer chains-ethane=2 Carbons,Propane=3 carbons,Butane=4 carbons-Butane obviously has a much higher boiling point than methane since dinky little plastic cigarette lighters easily are strong enough to hold it.

I would bet it would take very little fiddling to use LPG in a modern car,and not much more to use methane.Maybe there would be vapor lock problems,and you would certainly need a different "gas" tank,and fuel lines etc.

Charlie
PS- I'm guessing on the exact definitions-maybe I shouldn't.

Sorry, yes...

CNG=Compressed Natural Gas
LPG=Liquified Propane Gas

(you might also see reference to LNG=Liquified Natural Gas, but that is used exclusively in large commercial storage as it has to be very cold to liquify natural ga)