Green&Blue
10-23-2006, 11:43 AM
Shopping for a new commute vehicle for the GF...eventually, our households will merge, and I will strive to use the HCH-II to carpool both of us to our respective jobs (do-able, but not right now).
But until then, she's shopping for a new commute vehicle.
Like many women, she likes the 'riding high' feel of an SUV (drives a RAV-4 now), and I can't convince her that a smaller car would make a more suitable commute vehicle - she acknowledges same, and loves my car (she can get EPA on open highway, but not in-city), but we both agree that we'd handicap ourselves with two small cars. Again, at some point, we could likely commute together - at that point, this SUV doesn't get driven as much.
While this is going to be primarily a commute vehicle in the short term, we will also use it to haul things and maybe even go on short camping trips in it (the Element is especially well-suited for this, and many owners do this).
Drove new RAV-4, with 4cyl and V6. No.
Drove new CR-V. No.
Sat in Hyundai Santa Fe. Don't think so...
Looked at Matrix / Vibe twins - not enough room.
Drove new Element, with new 5-speed AT & std side curtain bags. Loved it. She loved the power and driving feel, I loved the engine turning at ~ 1400-1600 rpm in lockup (that 5th is a relatively tall 0.825). Rated 22/27 (2wd), 21/26 (4wd), per the brochure - and she'd be on the upper end of that, once she learned to drive it efficiently. But she wants the 4wd for the camping trips; we think we'd keep it out of 4wd most of the time (it's Honda's 'real-time' system), but there's the matter of the 137 extra pounds of weight to carry around the 95-99% of the time that we wouldn't be using it. She also wants that rear sunroof, which only comes with 4wd :rolleyes: . BTW - I could've sworn the Monroney said '24/29' on it - but I've seen a lot of Monroneys lately :p
Drove new FEH, with upgraded leather seats & optional side curtains. Loved it, but she hated the one they had in stock (undercladding), and wouldn't budge on it. I drove it for about 1.5 mi. after she warmed it up in Chicago city traffic, and managed...61mpg out of the box. I don't know 'fake shift', or any of the other tricks. Thus, we both thought it was an amazing vehicle (and I've never been a 'Ford man').
But I know we couldn't get that kind of mileage in open suburbia (40-45mph limits). Or could we ?
We also drove a 4-cyl cloth Escape for comparison, as well, although only the FEH has the appeal for us.
Pricing:
Element EX-P 4wd AT - ~ 24,000 list, we can get one for ~ 21,000.
FEH - ~ 28,000 list, the way we want it (2wd, longer leather seat cushions - the cloth feel too short in the thigh (?), side curtain); the dealer we went to mentioned "-$3000" right off the bat; they're going out of business and trying to liquidate the vehicles. Plus there's $1000 factory cash, and discount financing (0.0% 36, 0.9% 48, 1.9% 60). AND, there's a $2600 tax credit ? You can see why I was trying to push the one on the lot... :D But she won't take the one they have on their lot (black w/ 'ugly' silver undercladding), so we'd have to find another or do a dealer trade - and we've been warned that a dealer trade won't net the $3000 savings (bs, I know). This vehicle was in Chicago, there's only 2 others in our neck of the woods, neither equipped or painted the way we want it. We're not going full-boat 'premium package' - not interested in what it contains, and it's a north of 30K vehicle by that point.
Gas mileage - E 21/26 as stated above, but I know we could hypermile it a bit, being a Honda and my experience.
FEH - 36/31 in 2wd, but we've got 40-45mph limits around here. Could I hypermile it ? Likely without a doubt. Could she ? I don't know.
Emissions: E is LEV-2, FEH is AT-PZEV, from what I see. This is a selling point for the FEH... when I mentioned about the break-even point based on cost / fuel savings when we had lunch after driving it, she said... "maybe I'm willing to spend a little more money, knowing that I won't break even...maybe ever." I was so proud of her at that point. :woot:
Room: Front, no issues between the two. Back, the E has it over the FEH. Utility galore in the E.
Styling - I think we both like the E interior better, and she really does like the funky look of the exterior. I like the functional loading of those suicide side doors and clamshell tailgate, but I'd admit that I like the more conventional exterior of the FEH.
At this point, we're kind of leaning toward the E, for these and other tangible / intangible reasons which I won't mention here. I've told her it's her vehicle and her choice, but she values my opinion of cars and would go with my strong persuasion, were I to say "get the FEH". Problem is, I kinda like the utility of the E, even with the FE potential of the FEH + better emissions. Now that I see the vehicles are roughly priced the same, I can see the responses coming... I'll also admit that I have a Honda bias, as those who know me can attest. I'm thinking lower TCO with the E. I like the E enough that I'd buy it for my own use - but I wouldn't buy it as an 'extra' vehicle to be used sparingly. I like to use just what I 'need' - although I can feel some sort of mid-life crisis car coming in the next couple of years. Sadly, I know it won't be an S2000 - it's not a good size fit for me. Might be an NSX, though.
Your thoughts ? Hopefully, I won't lose my CMPG 'cred' :p
Anyone ever had the FEH undercladding removed ? I know it could be done; what's involved ? She doesn't want the vehicle repainted.
Opinions from those who have compared the two vehicles are especially welcome. Thanks for reading :p
But until then, she's shopping for a new commute vehicle.
Like many women, she likes the 'riding high' feel of an SUV (drives a RAV-4 now), and I can't convince her that a smaller car would make a more suitable commute vehicle - she acknowledges same, and loves my car (she can get EPA on open highway, but not in-city), but we both agree that we'd handicap ourselves with two small cars. Again, at some point, we could likely commute together - at that point, this SUV doesn't get driven as much.
While this is going to be primarily a commute vehicle in the short term, we will also use it to haul things and maybe even go on short camping trips in it (the Element is especially well-suited for this, and many owners do this).
Drove new RAV-4, with 4cyl and V6. No.
Drove new CR-V. No.
Sat in Hyundai Santa Fe. Don't think so...
Looked at Matrix / Vibe twins - not enough room.
Drove new Element, with new 5-speed AT & std side curtain bags. Loved it. She loved the power and driving feel, I loved the engine turning at ~ 1400-1600 rpm in lockup (that 5th is a relatively tall 0.825). Rated 22/27 (2wd), 21/26 (4wd), per the brochure - and she'd be on the upper end of that, once she learned to drive it efficiently. But she wants the 4wd for the camping trips; we think we'd keep it out of 4wd most of the time (it's Honda's 'real-time' system), but there's the matter of the 137 extra pounds of weight to carry around the 95-99% of the time that we wouldn't be using it. She also wants that rear sunroof, which only comes with 4wd :rolleyes: . BTW - I could've sworn the Monroney said '24/29' on it - but I've seen a lot of Monroneys lately :p
Drove new FEH, with upgraded leather seats & optional side curtains. Loved it, but she hated the one they had in stock (undercladding), and wouldn't budge on it. I drove it for about 1.5 mi. after she warmed it up in Chicago city traffic, and managed...61mpg out of the box. I don't know 'fake shift', or any of the other tricks. Thus, we both thought it was an amazing vehicle (and I've never been a 'Ford man').
But I know we couldn't get that kind of mileage in open suburbia (40-45mph limits). Or could we ?
We also drove a 4-cyl cloth Escape for comparison, as well, although only the FEH has the appeal for us.
Pricing:
Element EX-P 4wd AT - ~ 24,000 list, we can get one for ~ 21,000.
FEH - ~ 28,000 list, the way we want it (2wd, longer leather seat cushions - the cloth feel too short in the thigh (?), side curtain); the dealer we went to mentioned "-$3000" right off the bat; they're going out of business and trying to liquidate the vehicles. Plus there's $1000 factory cash, and discount financing (0.0% 36, 0.9% 48, 1.9% 60). AND, there's a $2600 tax credit ? You can see why I was trying to push the one on the lot... :D But she won't take the one they have on their lot (black w/ 'ugly' silver undercladding), so we'd have to find another or do a dealer trade - and we've been warned that a dealer trade won't net the $3000 savings (bs, I know). This vehicle was in Chicago, there's only 2 others in our neck of the woods, neither equipped or painted the way we want it. We're not going full-boat 'premium package' - not interested in what it contains, and it's a north of 30K vehicle by that point.
Gas mileage - E 21/26 as stated above, but I know we could hypermile it a bit, being a Honda and my experience.
FEH - 36/31 in 2wd, but we've got 40-45mph limits around here. Could I hypermile it ? Likely without a doubt. Could she ? I don't know.
Emissions: E is LEV-2, FEH is AT-PZEV, from what I see. This is a selling point for the FEH... when I mentioned about the break-even point based on cost / fuel savings when we had lunch after driving it, she said... "maybe I'm willing to spend a little more money, knowing that I won't break even...maybe ever." I was so proud of her at that point. :woot:
Room: Front, no issues between the two. Back, the E has it over the FEH. Utility galore in the E.
Styling - I think we both like the E interior better, and she really does like the funky look of the exterior. I like the functional loading of those suicide side doors and clamshell tailgate, but I'd admit that I like the more conventional exterior of the FEH.
At this point, we're kind of leaning toward the E, for these and other tangible / intangible reasons which I won't mention here. I've told her it's her vehicle and her choice, but she values my opinion of cars and would go with my strong persuasion, were I to say "get the FEH". Problem is, I kinda like the utility of the E, even with the FE potential of the FEH + better emissions. Now that I see the vehicles are roughly priced the same, I can see the responses coming... I'll also admit that I have a Honda bias, as those who know me can attest. I'm thinking lower TCO with the E. I like the E enough that I'd buy it for my own use - but I wouldn't buy it as an 'extra' vehicle to be used sparingly. I like to use just what I 'need' - although I can feel some sort of mid-life crisis car coming in the next couple of years. Sadly, I know it won't be an S2000 - it's not a good size fit for me. Might be an NSX, though.
Your thoughts ? Hopefully, I won't lose my CMPG 'cred' :p
Anyone ever had the FEH undercladding removed ? I know it could be done; what's involved ? She doesn't want the vehicle repainted.
Opinions from those who have compared the two vehicles are especially welcome. Thanks for reading :p