xcel
09-16-2009, 10:58 PM
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/2/AmericanFlag.jpg Reduced emissions at the forefront with improved_FE having the very highest priority. We were all but promised it will place a smile on our faces :) (cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?p=233140)
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/2010_Ford_F550_SuperDuty_-_XLT_CrewCabs.jpgWayne Gerdes, Nathan Pauli and Mike Sefton - CleanMPG (cleanmpg.com) - Sept. 16, 2009
2010 F-550 Super Duty’s at work.
With the recent announcement that Ford is finalizing its next generation, in-house designed, 6.7L Power Stroke Turbo-diesel (cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24626) for inclusion in the 2011 Ford Super Duty lineup, interest from some CleanMPG members arose. Although we do not normally cover P/Us and SUVs due to their aggressive fuel consuming nature, those that truly need a powerful work truck for field work should find the next generation Power Stroke, code named Scorpion, within the Super Duty of their choice to be a reasonably cost effective and more importantly, a very fuel efficient workhorse. Not only will the new engine be capable of towing, hauling, pulling or moving anything a farmer, rancher, landscaper or field service worker would have ever considered, it will do so with less impact on the local and global environment than any previous Ford Super Duty offering.
The 6.7L Power Strokes underlying advanced combustion control, emissions controls technologies and promised fuel economy improvements make this engine and the trucks it will propel a winner long before it has reached a consumers drive.
A look back at Ford’s 6.0L Power Stroke
Ford’s 2003 through 2005, 6.0L Power Stroke engines were somewhat of a black eye to both Ford’s “Built Ford Tough” reputation and its profitability in part due to an abnormally high number of warranty repairs from initial launch. Most of these problems came about due to the fact the engine was not designed and manufactured by Ford in-house but instead was outsourced from Navistar while Ford handled engine integration into the Super Duty chassis.
By 2006, Ford’s aggressive attention to past warranty claims brought about changes to the engine and software controls turning the previously struggling 6.0L Power Stroke engine program around in dramatic fashion. In fact, the 6.0L went from one of Ford’s highest warranty claimed engines to the lowest of any engine, diesel or gas!
CleanMPG had a sit down Q&A with Ford’s Diesel Engine Program Manager - Adam Gryglak and After Treatment Emissions Control Engineer, Chris Oberski earlier today. Additional details were offered although we still await some time behind the wheel with one of Ford’s all-new 6.7L Power Strokes sometime early next year.
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/2/Adam_Gryglak_Lead_Engineer.jpgAdam Gryglak - Large Diesel Engine Engineering Program Manager standing over the designed and built from a clean sheet, 6.7L Power Stroke Turbo-diesel.
6.7L Power Stroke Q&A
CMPG: Considering the 6.0L Power Stroke engine program, what has changed regarding durability modeling and testing to improve out of the box reliability for the upcoming 6.7L Power Stroke?
Adam G.: The engine is now an entirely in-house design with many previous Ford of Europe diesel engineers in the development team improving upon the engine through lessons learned and reliability testing data right from the start. We also did a lot of marketing work to understand how customers use the trucks, and developed cycles to mimic their usage.
CMPG: We noticed during the earlier presentation that the DPF was located at an unusual location at the end of the after treatment stream? How is it regenerated?
Chris. O.: The F250/350 places the DPF at the end while the F450 on up will use a different configuration. A fifth post injection into the exhaust stream is used to regenerate the DPF with no other fuel lines to the DPF needed.
The difference between the F250/350 and the 450 on up is loading factors dictating the SCR’s placement for optimum NOx conversion efficiency.
CMPG: How are you avoiding oil dilution when using B20? Did you have to reduce oil change intervals?
Adam G.: We performed extensive analysis and testing to determine when to time the post injection event to minimize oil dilution. The result is that we are not seeing dilution within the engine program's extensive testing and are anticipating a 7,500 mile change interval. B5, B10, and B20 are making inroads in several markets and we wanted to be ready for that.
CMPG: Are you simulating aged after treatment testing by "cooking" the DOC/SCR/DPF or by on the road testing?
Chris O.: We are doing both. Bench aging w/ high temps and beating emissions requirements with miles on the road.
CMPG: Is the upcoming 6.7L Power Stroke design program just meeting the upcoming 2011 EPA emissions requirements or exceeding them soundly with either simulated or actual 120,000 mile testing?
Chris O.: We are confident we will exceed all EPA emissions requirements but I cannot say more than that.
CMPG: Few details were released about EGR in the earlier presentation. What cooling methods have you included?
Adam G.: A dual cooling loop EGR is incorporated. One high temp at 90C and a low temp loop at 50C second.
CMPG: You've got the tranny, fuel cooler, and aftercooler on the low temp side too, right?
Adam G.: You've got it.
CMPG: How are your two cores arranged at the front of the truck? Top/bottom? Front & back? Side & side? [In my head, I'm wondering about selective grill blocking]
Adam G.: There are two separate cores at the front of the truck, but I can't give out any more detail than that just yet.
CMPG: How do you warm up the low temp circuit? I know it takes a lot of fuel to get that extra coolant (mass) up to temp, and I thought I had read that you let the EGR bypass the cooler to help the intake warm up. Where does the heat come from to warm up that circuit?
Adam G.: Good question. Chris, you want to take that one?
Chris O.: When the engine's cold, we vary the timing of the injections to generate more heat in the exhaust. This helps raise the NOx conversion efficiency, but also supplies heat to the intake and low temp circuit via EGR.
CMPG:That still doesn't tell me how the exhaust can simultaneously warm up the intake by bypassing the cooler, and warm up the cooler...
CMPG: Do you have anything else to aid warmup? An intake heater?
Adam G.: We've been able to get good cold weather performance without an intake air heater by using uncooled EGR and glow plugs that continue to operate while the engine is running.
CMPG: What are you doing to protect the 6.7L from B20 or poor fuel quality gelling?
Adam G.: We are using 2 filters, primary on the chassis and a second on the engine. A low pressure fuel switch via message center display will signal to the customer if fuel pressure is low.
CMPG: Any problems with warming up fuel filters?
Adam G. Not at all, you will be impressed. A Patent has been applied for to give more heat to the fuel but we cannot give any more details just yet.
CMPG: A marketing question. Any chance for a smaller displacement light duty diesel in Ford’s near future?
Adam G.: I simply cannot say...
CMPG: Any FE improvements over the 6.0 and 6.4L Power Strokes thanks to the Injectors, sequential turbo, urea injection and control vs. loss due to back pressure and DPF regenerations?
Adam G.: That is a good list (laughs). We improved overall fuel efficiency.
CMPG: Better than 6.4 with light duty driving?
Adam G.: We worked hard within the combustion system to keep particulates down and that helps to reduce regen frequencies. More will be revealed at the Texas State Fair next week.
CMPG: Will there be an SAE paper coming next April?
Adam G.: Yes there will be.
CMPG (Nathan): About that FE... How does it compare to my current Duramax?
Adam G.: I can guarantee that you will have a hard time getting the smile off your face after you drive the truck ;)
Thank you Adam and Chris for your timely answers to our questions and Anne for setting up the Ford Teleconference.
Ford 6.7L Super Duty
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/2/6_7L_PowerStroke.jpg
External views
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/2/2011_Ford_6_7L_PowerStroke_emisisons_layout.jpg
F250/350 Super Duty – Aftertreatment Emissions Control layout
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/2010_Ford_F550_SuperDuty_-_XLT_CrewCabs.jpgWayne Gerdes, Nathan Pauli and Mike Sefton - CleanMPG (cleanmpg.com) - Sept. 16, 2009
2010 F-550 Super Duty’s at work.
With the recent announcement that Ford is finalizing its next generation, in-house designed, 6.7L Power Stroke Turbo-diesel (cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24626) for inclusion in the 2011 Ford Super Duty lineup, interest from some CleanMPG members arose. Although we do not normally cover P/Us and SUVs due to their aggressive fuel consuming nature, those that truly need a powerful work truck for field work should find the next generation Power Stroke, code named Scorpion, within the Super Duty of their choice to be a reasonably cost effective and more importantly, a very fuel efficient workhorse. Not only will the new engine be capable of towing, hauling, pulling or moving anything a farmer, rancher, landscaper or field service worker would have ever considered, it will do so with less impact on the local and global environment than any previous Ford Super Duty offering.
The 6.7L Power Strokes underlying advanced combustion control, emissions controls technologies and promised fuel economy improvements make this engine and the trucks it will propel a winner long before it has reached a consumers drive.
A look back at Ford’s 6.0L Power Stroke
Ford’s 2003 through 2005, 6.0L Power Stroke engines were somewhat of a black eye to both Ford’s “Built Ford Tough” reputation and its profitability in part due to an abnormally high number of warranty repairs from initial launch. Most of these problems came about due to the fact the engine was not designed and manufactured by Ford in-house but instead was outsourced from Navistar while Ford handled engine integration into the Super Duty chassis.
By 2006, Ford’s aggressive attention to past warranty claims brought about changes to the engine and software controls turning the previously struggling 6.0L Power Stroke engine program around in dramatic fashion. In fact, the 6.0L went from one of Ford’s highest warranty claimed engines to the lowest of any engine, diesel or gas!
CleanMPG had a sit down Q&A with Ford’s Diesel Engine Program Manager - Adam Gryglak and After Treatment Emissions Control Engineer, Chris Oberski earlier today. Additional details were offered although we still await some time behind the wheel with one of Ford’s all-new 6.7L Power Strokes sometime early next year.
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/2/Adam_Gryglak_Lead_Engineer.jpgAdam Gryglak - Large Diesel Engine Engineering Program Manager standing over the designed and built from a clean sheet, 6.7L Power Stroke Turbo-diesel.
6.7L Power Stroke Q&A
CMPG: Considering the 6.0L Power Stroke engine program, what has changed regarding durability modeling and testing to improve out of the box reliability for the upcoming 6.7L Power Stroke?
Adam G.: The engine is now an entirely in-house design with many previous Ford of Europe diesel engineers in the development team improving upon the engine through lessons learned and reliability testing data right from the start. We also did a lot of marketing work to understand how customers use the trucks, and developed cycles to mimic their usage.
CMPG: We noticed during the earlier presentation that the DPF was located at an unusual location at the end of the after treatment stream? How is it regenerated?
Chris. O.: The F250/350 places the DPF at the end while the F450 on up will use a different configuration. A fifth post injection into the exhaust stream is used to regenerate the DPF with no other fuel lines to the DPF needed.
The difference between the F250/350 and the 450 on up is loading factors dictating the SCR’s placement for optimum NOx conversion efficiency.
CMPG: How are you avoiding oil dilution when using B20? Did you have to reduce oil change intervals?
Adam G.: We performed extensive analysis and testing to determine when to time the post injection event to minimize oil dilution. The result is that we are not seeing dilution within the engine program's extensive testing and are anticipating a 7,500 mile change interval. B5, B10, and B20 are making inroads in several markets and we wanted to be ready for that.
CMPG: Are you simulating aged after treatment testing by "cooking" the DOC/SCR/DPF or by on the road testing?
Chris O.: We are doing both. Bench aging w/ high temps and beating emissions requirements with miles on the road.
CMPG: Is the upcoming 6.7L Power Stroke design program just meeting the upcoming 2011 EPA emissions requirements or exceeding them soundly with either simulated or actual 120,000 mile testing?
Chris O.: We are confident we will exceed all EPA emissions requirements but I cannot say more than that.
CMPG: Few details were released about EGR in the earlier presentation. What cooling methods have you included?
Adam G.: A dual cooling loop EGR is incorporated. One high temp at 90C and a low temp loop at 50C second.
CMPG: You've got the tranny, fuel cooler, and aftercooler on the low temp side too, right?
Adam G.: You've got it.
CMPG: How are your two cores arranged at the front of the truck? Top/bottom? Front & back? Side & side? [In my head, I'm wondering about selective grill blocking]
Adam G.: There are two separate cores at the front of the truck, but I can't give out any more detail than that just yet.
CMPG: How do you warm up the low temp circuit? I know it takes a lot of fuel to get that extra coolant (mass) up to temp, and I thought I had read that you let the EGR bypass the cooler to help the intake warm up. Where does the heat come from to warm up that circuit?
Adam G.: Good question. Chris, you want to take that one?
Chris O.: When the engine's cold, we vary the timing of the injections to generate more heat in the exhaust. This helps raise the NOx conversion efficiency, but also supplies heat to the intake and low temp circuit via EGR.
CMPG:That still doesn't tell me how the exhaust can simultaneously warm up the intake by bypassing the cooler, and warm up the cooler...
CMPG: Do you have anything else to aid warmup? An intake heater?
Adam G.: We've been able to get good cold weather performance without an intake air heater by using uncooled EGR and glow plugs that continue to operate while the engine is running.
CMPG: What are you doing to protect the 6.7L from B20 or poor fuel quality gelling?
Adam G.: We are using 2 filters, primary on the chassis and a second on the engine. A low pressure fuel switch via message center display will signal to the customer if fuel pressure is low.
CMPG: Any problems with warming up fuel filters?
Adam G. Not at all, you will be impressed. A Patent has been applied for to give more heat to the fuel but we cannot give any more details just yet.
CMPG: A marketing question. Any chance for a smaller displacement light duty diesel in Ford’s near future?
Adam G.: I simply cannot say...
CMPG: Any FE improvements over the 6.0 and 6.4L Power Strokes thanks to the Injectors, sequential turbo, urea injection and control vs. loss due to back pressure and DPF regenerations?
Adam G.: That is a good list (laughs). We improved overall fuel efficiency.
CMPG: Better than 6.4 with light duty driving?
Adam G.: We worked hard within the combustion system to keep particulates down and that helps to reduce regen frequencies. More will be revealed at the Texas State Fair next week.
CMPG: Will there be an SAE paper coming next April?
Adam G.: Yes there will be.
CMPG (Nathan): About that FE... How does it compare to my current Duramax?
Adam G.: I can guarantee that you will have a hard time getting the smile off your face after you drive the truck ;)
Thank you Adam and Chris for your timely answers to our questions and Anne for setting up the Ford Teleconference.
Ford 6.7L Super Duty
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/2/6_7L_PowerStroke.jpg
External views
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/2/2011_Ford_6_7L_PowerStroke_emisisons_layout.jpg
F250/350 Super Duty – Aftertreatment Emissions Control layout