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http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/2/AmericanFlag.jpg More and more critics say windmills aren't that green, aren't a great source of energy -- and can be harmful to people's health. (http://www.indystar.com/article/20090809/BUSINESS/908090380/Blowback++Indiana+s+emerging+wind+farms+whip+up+controversy)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/wind_turbines_on_farm.jpgJeff Swiatek - INDYSTAR (http://www.indystar.com) - August 9, 2009

Is this really a problem? We need defnitive studies. --Ed.

The 200- to 300-foot-long blades on industrial windmills look almost whimsical from afar.

They appear to turn slowly. People sometimes stop to take pictures. "They look cool," said Eric Burch, director of policy and outreach for the Indiana Office of Energy Development.

The tips of those giant blades, however, move at speeds approaching 160 mph, creating forces that send low-frequency vibrations through the ground. People three-quarters of a mile away sometimes say they can feel the vibrations in their chests.

Cases of nausea, headaches, insomnia and other ills have become common enough in states with wind farms that they've been given a name: "wind turbine syndrome."

That newfangled illness is just one of a growing list of health effects, inconveniences, risks and cost considerations that have resulted in a backlash against wind farms in other states, even as Indiana is in the midst of a rapid buildout of wind energy.

What's happening in other states suggests that the warm and fuzzy feeling many Hoosiers have for wind farms could change as the big turbines creep closer to more populated areas near Indianapolis, Lafayette and other cities.

Benton County farmer John Gilbert said several farmland owners he knows refused to lease space for turbines. He can't quite understand that. He and his family leased ground for... http://www.indystar.com/article/20090809/BUSINESS/908090380/Blowback++Indiana+s+emerging+wind+farms+whip+up+controversy

Talk about bias, take this lovely quote from the article...

The blades, turning day and night, are efficient killers of birds and bats. Some studies show large wind farms located in migratory paths or on ridgetops can kill thousands of birds a year, though other studies put the death toll much lower.

Very interesting, but isn't that why they have to do the studies before building....so they don't put wind farms in migratory paths? Ignoring that side of the arguments makes the factureal statement a negative against the industry when really the fact they prevent (perhaps not voluntarily) a positive for them.

However study of the health effects is something that should be done. If it bothers humans, shouldn't it have similar effect on other ground based wildlife, especially in ground animals like gophers, moles, and rabbits? I wonder if anyone has studied the effects both in terms of life expectancy and disease, along with the changes in population densities of animals near wind turbines. If animals are scared/bothered by being near them, then that further increases problems in some areas. On the other and, if they are a natural deterence to crop destoying animals and insects then they are a plus....too much speculation and not enough reasearch....at least not enough we have seen.

They can put one in my back yard. No Problem! :)

Am I the only one suspecting some just don't like wind turbines and running to find rationalizations afterwards?

They can put one in my back yard. No Problem! :)


Same here! :D:D:D

It seems like no matter what, there will always be haters. People complain that they don't want them in their back yard. OK. So what about the wind generators they want to put 15 miles out to sea? Well, they don't want them there either! If given the choice between a coal burning power plant, a nuclear reactor or a gianormous wind generator, well... that's pretty much a no brainer to me.

Personally, I would rather see more stimulus given towards green energy on the individual level. Let people put up their own wind generators or hang some solar panels on the roof. Oh but wait, there isn't any monthly bill to tax when home owners provide for themselves. (Sorry, I forgot to think like a politician)

They can put one in my back yard. No Problem! :)

I'll take one too!

Personal PV is useful (if your not shaded), but personal wind is still pretty useless. The higher you go the better the wind. Its an unusal home owner who can put up a personal wind turbine and have it make practical and economic sense. They are usually too low, in an area too turburent, and/or just don't have enough wind.

I'd like research to step in and give us some real numbers for personal wind. Whats the max power you could get (at 100% efficiency) from most homes with turbines at differnt heights. What's do small turbines actually achive and what numbers are they likely to achive in the next 10 years.

However, anyone who can support personal wind should. Further development won't happen without $. I keep hoping to see some personal homes designed to capture the wind and direct it to a turbine. Passive concentration to the active turbine might make economic sense.

Would love to be able to have a wind turbine, but living on < 0.1 acre in an urban area with relatively calm winds makes it infeasible.

I do think we need to do some studies on health effects. We're hearing some of the same kinds of stories here in Oregon where we've had massive wind power development. Some of it may be sour grapes from neighboring landowners who aren't lucky enough to have turbines sited on their own land but still have to look at them, but more investigation is sorely needed.

Shouldn't we use the "Precautionary Principle" and make the windfarmers PROVE it's safe first?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precautionary_principle

Am I the only one suspecting some just don't like wind turbines and running to find rationalizations afterwards?

No I don't think so. They probably want to put in much safer coal, gas and nuclear. :eyebrow:

On the other hand don't some of the symptoms like the shadow flicker effect sound contrived? You can get flicker effect from watching television or reading under the older flourescent lights but no one has thrown out their TV or their flourescent bulbs because of that. This sounds almost as contrived as the drug ads for restless leg syndrome or irritable bowl disorder or any of the many made up diseases that appear on TV.

This sounds almost as contrived as the drug ads for restless leg syndrome or irritable bowl disorder or any of the many made up diseases that appear on TV.

It does sound a lot like that, but I wouldn't call restless leg syndrome or irratable bowel made up diseases. If you really have them they can cause major problems in your life.

I have both of them, and they contribute to my lack of weight. My IBS is causing me to digest protein improperly and the RLS causes me to use more energy than most people (not to mention both of them making life miserable for anyone else in the bed).
They are too pushy about who should be taking all of these drugs though. If I don't take them, not many others will need to either.

As far as the poll (and getting back to the subject) I voted yes, but...
I don't have to make money, but if it looses me too much then my finances get screwed up and I would end up needing help.

Worthywads,

Windfarms should only have to be safer than what they are replacing-a coal fired plans. 1,000,000 of years of life have been lost to coal fired plants.

Does anyone seriously think a big propeller is more dangerous than feeding a coal fired plant.Just the mining of the coal is more dangerous than low intensity noise.

What next "waves lapping on the sea shore syndrome" ?

VW TDI Syndrome- those blade tips do 600 mph or so.

"Windy Day Syndrome"

Besides, there has been a wind farm in CA for over 30 years. Are their workers dropping like flies?

Charlie

^

Don't you mean "dropping like birds"?

I was joking about the Precautionary Principle.

It does sound a lot like that, but I wouldn't call restless leg syndrome or irratable bowel made up diseases. If you really have them they can cause major problems in your life.

I have both of them, and they contribute to my lack of weight. My IBS is causing me to digest protein improperly and the RLS causes me to use more energy than most people (not to mention both of them making life miserable for anyone else in the bed).
They are too pushy about who should be taking all of these drugs though. If I don't take them, not many others will need to either.

As far as the poll (and getting back to the subject) I voted yes, but...
I don't have to make money, but if it looses me too much then my finances get screwed up and I would end up needing help.

My apologies. I shouldn't have trivialized these diseases. :o I didn't know that they were that serious. You hear and read about over perscribing and over medicating people but your case illustrates that they are legitimate reasons to take these drugs.

BTW, I voted yes too simply because inspite of the heat here in Houston we've had some incredibly windy afternoons where, if I could put up a 10 kilowatt turbine I could power my house and run my air conditioner from wind turbine generated power.

You hear and read about over perscribing and over medicating people but your case illustrates that they are legitimate reasons to take these drugs.

I did jump a bit too far, but I wasn't feeling very well yesterday (partly due to these problems).:o

I definitely agree about the overprescribing and overmedication that is going on. It has gotten to be way too much. Heck, RLS can not be treated at all. All you can do is treat the symptoms and most people don't need it.

I passed some of those windfarms on my way out of Hybridfest,
heading straight south to bypass Chicago by a wide berth and
go through Indianapolis. One whole group wasn't turning yet,
probably for the same "not online yet" reason I was told about
the Kansas ones last year. The next group was spinning away
just fine, though.
.
On some other trip I tooled up the access path to some of the
turbines at an upstate NY windfarm and paused for a picture.
As I stood there outside of the car I realized that I could feel
the same kind of vibration, and when you're edge-on to the swath
of one of the things you realize that the blade tips oscillate
quite a bit along the *axis* of the rotation as the wind exerts
its force against them. So the blades don't describe a flat
path, it's all kind of wiggly.
.
But the vibration through the ground is no worse than, say, that
from the furnace running in the basement of a typical house,
so these tinfoil-hat people are just blowing the usual smoke.
Humans live in environments full of stray vibration all the time,
especially in cities.
.
_H*

hobbit.
Best guess how far were you from the nearest turbine?
How far from the middle of the field?


I go by 2 farms in the TX/OK panhandle , and one in West Tx 100 miles east of ElPaso off I-10.
Via eyeball I think I was probably at least 2 miles away.I couldn't hear or feel a thing.

I

Could you hear them, or were you just feeling ground movement?

I would pay to get an up close look at them.They are really otherworldly looking at night in a thunderstorm with lightening strobe lighting the sky.

Thanks
Charlie

Charlie

It's cool!

Anyone know of a hotel very near a wind farm in the midwest area. It would be interesting to actually experience the noise/vibration first hand and for a somewhat extended time instead of just stopping for an hour.