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Last week I got a shiny new M class license and I'm looking to test it out. In the range of used bikes, I am looking for something that is fun, Interstate-worthy but not overpowered, and not a cruiser or crotch rocket requiring a racing crouch.

Bikes that have been mentioned are the CRF230/650, Kawi Ninja 250/500/650, Kawi KLR Series, Suzuki DS400, Suzuki SV650, and Yamaha YZ600.

I took the MSF course on a Yamaha TW200 DualSport and liked it, but want something I can get up to speed and have power left if I need to escape quickly.

Opinions, Experiences, other Comments?

Thanks,
Marc

Hi Marc:

___That is so cool!

___Around the suburbs, the CRF230L would be the fuel miser of choice but for the highway, she will wear you out as there is a buzziness that will never go away at 60 + mph and 7K + RPM’s let alone not much left on the top end for escaping. When you get into the 600 + range, their engines and performance are so over the top the only thing you can do on those is get yourself in trouble. The F 800 GS I rode last month was a spectacular machine and achieved decent FE but there was so much power that was completely discarded. The Kawaski Ninja 250 Sport bike is another good choice as long as you are not riding too far. They can be found new or used for cheap, cheap cheap and with a larger front sprocket can remove some of the buzziness they are prone too include plus increase FE a bit. A small (most) sport bike will kill your knees after an hour and a half unfortunately :(

___Which leads me to believe a 400 to 500cc bike makes the most sense if you are headed out onto the highway for longer stretches. You retain much of the fuel economy of the smaller bikes, you gain a less buzzy ride on the highway and still stay below the 600cc insurance busting cutoff.

___A bike I have been dying to ride and will hope to when I get back to the West Coast is the 65 mpg rated Suzuki DR Z400SM. I love dual-sports but with knobs on the pavement, the road holding capability is not nearly what the same bike is with street tires. Again, the BMW F 800 GS with its street tires was a night and day comparison to the XR 650L I rode out in LA. If you can find an 08 400 SM for $4K or so, that might be an overall better deal than the $6,700 retail they currently go for?

___Those Kymco’s we looked at last year looked enticing given their low initial up-front costs but reliability will always be a ? mark with a new Korean based bike.

___I cannot add much more due to the fact I have not ridden the 400SM or my other possible two favorites in the Kawasaki KLX 250S or SF but just keep it under 600 cc, make sure it has road tires for our uses and wear a bright colored helmet and gear with body armor installed. I cannot stress the gear colors and armor enough so make sure you read the Aerostich Darien review at your earliest convenience. The liners of the Darien have been on sale so at least the costs have come down some and there is no better gear in the business for a Chicago area rider given the traffic we must contend with day and day out.

___Let us both plan to cover the Chicago Motorcycle Show early next year and this time, you will be getting in for free ;)

___Finally, you will be laughing at the pump when you have to pay $6.00 for a weeks worth of commuting vs. the $30 or so you might be paying now? You made a very nice step into saving fuel by the super tanker full and this is just the beginning.

___Good Luck and congrats on your M license!

___Wayne

Welcome
For pure fun/acceleration the SV650 is hard to beat.I had one-fun bike.
On the downside, it is really too fast for a new rider. It accelerates waaaay fast. It didn't give great mpg-40mpg or so- but regearing could change that.

One other possibility is the Buell Blast.They are selling- used with low miles-cheaply.You should be able to get a bike with just 4000 miles on it for $2000. They can get very good mpg-65 plus -in normal riding. Downside is they are kinda smal/short for taller people(but great for shorter folks).Buell Harley reliability is much better than it was 20 years ago-I don't hear much bad about them, but they'll be a notch less than Japanese reliability(pure guess).

Be careful-good luck-have fun
Charlie

Hi Marc:

___That is so cool!

___Around the suburbs, the CRF230L would be the fuel miser of choice but for the highway, she will wear you out as there is a buzziness that will never go away at 60 + mph and 7K + RPM’s let alone not much left on the top end for escaping. When you get into the 600 + range, their engines and performance are so over the top the only thing you can do on those is get yourself in trouble. The F 800 GS I rode last month was a spectacular machine and achieved decent FE but there was so much power that was completely discarded. The Kawaski Ninja 250 Sport bike is another good choice as long as you are not riding too far. They can be found new or used for cheap, cheap cheap and with a larger front sprocket can remove some of the buzziness they are prone too include plus increase FE a bit. A small (most) sport bike will kill your knees after an hour and a half unfortunately :(

___Which leads me to believe a 400 to 500cc bike makes the most sense if you are headed out onto the highway for longer stretches. You retain much of the fuel economy of the smaller bikes, you gain a less buzzy ride on the highway and still stay below the 600cc insurance busting cutoff.

___A bike I have been dying to ride and will hope to when I get back to the West Coast is the 65 mpg rated Suzuki DR Z400SM. I love dual-sports but with knobs on the pavement, the road holding capability is not nearly what the same bike is with street tires. Again, the BMW F 800 GS with its street tires was a night and day comparison to the XR 650L I rode out in LA. If you can find an 08 400 SM for $4K or so, that might be an overall better deal than the $6,700 retail they currently go for?

___Those Kymco’s we looked at last year looked enticing given their low initial up-front costs but reliability will always be a ? mark with a new Korean based bike.

___I cannot add much more due to the fact I have not ridden the 400SM or my other possible two favorites in the Kawasaki KLX 250S or SF but just keep it under 600 cc, make sure it has road tires for our uses and wear a bright colored helmet and gear with body armor installed. I cannot stress the gear colors and armor enough so make sure you read the Aerostich Darien review at your earliest convenience. The liners of the Darien have been on sale so at least the costs have come down some and there is no better gear in the business for a Chicago area rider given the traffic we must contend with day and day out.

___Let us both plan to cover the Chicago Motorcycle Show early next year and this time, you will be getting in for free ;)

___Finally, you will be laughing at the pump when you have to pay $6.00 for a weeks worth of commuting vs. the $30 or so you might be paying now? You made a very nice step into saving fuel by the super tanker full and this is just the beginning.

___Good Luck and congrats on your M license!

___Wayne

Wayne-

Thanks for the rundown. Talking with other riders (dad & the boss), the 250s seem OK but pretty tapped out at ~60mph. The bigger sprocket would help a lot! My boss suggested an interceptor 800, but I thought that was a little big (he rides a 'Busa past the century mark at least 1x/week).

Insurance for anything other than a 600cc+ sport bike seems roughly the same, so the 400SM is a strong possibility, I could swap the tires if I ever needed to really go offroad. My Dad had a KLX 250 ~2002, nice bike. He never rode it highway though.

As for gear- I've got a very nice HJC CL-15 full-face M2005 rated helmet. Have to look into leathers and boots, though.

As for gas, the civic is already pretty miserly on fuel, so may get much improvement there.

1 thing I did find interesting- 149cc and below (L class) bikes are illegal on Illinois Interstates, so that might count against the Kymco.

Phoebeisis-

I thought about the Blast, but have been told they are learning bikes like the Rebel/Eliminator/TW200. Plus seeing the 2010 Blast didn't really give me that "warm, fuzzy" feeling about parts availability. Good to hear from an SV650 rider, though.

Has anyone here ridden the YZ?

Thanks,
Marc

Welcome
For pure fun/acceleration the SV650 is hard to beat.I had one-fun bike.
On the downside, it is really too fast for a new rider. It accelerates waaaay fast. It didn't give great mpg-40mpg or so- but regearing could change that.
Be careful-good luck-have fun
Charlie
+1 on the SV650. Keep in mind that it is a V-twin and so will have LESS power than the usual 4-cylinder 600 (e.g., YZ600), which is good for a beginner and for FE. Motorcycle displacements can be misleading. I don't think it's too fast for a beginner: after all, the throttle turns both ways. And gearing it for FE would also reduce accel.

But if mpg on the street is the top priority, the EX250 is hard to beat. Probably 80-90mpg? It's built as a road bike, not a converted enduro or dual purpose bike, and so has good brakes, handling, etc. The EX500 might be a good second choice: bulletproof, hence popular for roadracers.

I agree the Honda 800 Interceptor is too big for most people to start on, and typical mileage for me has been 45-ish. Built as a sport-tourer for riding all day on back roads with minimal luggage, a fabulous bike but not for your purpose.

In Japan they used to sell 400cc road bikes that would have been perfect. Miniature (from our POV) sportbikes with all the power you could ever want. Not available here.

What's this escaping business? Is it now taught at MSF? It's a limited tactic at best. Better to anticipate and avoid escalating situations in the first place. The problem is that while bikes out-accelerate cars up to about 60mph, then cars take over. Plus they have better braking and corner faster (sorry!). And trying to accelerate away from them can get you into dangerous situations up ahead. Yes at first the ability to "escape" may seem critical, but as you ride more you'll get more comfortable around other traffic. Especially because you sit a bit higher than the cars and don't have structure (pillars, roof) and so can see a lot better than a car driver can. Plus in a real emergency you have all sorts of possibilities that cars don't: narrow shoulders, sidewalks, grass, tight openings too narrow for a car, etc. In 25+ years of riding I used "escape" mode only once or twice, and coud have handled those situations in other ways. Normally it's best to keep drunks and idiots ahead of you so you can keep an eye on them.

Having that extra zip available almost certainly means a bike with poorer mpg in normal riding.

Anyhow, good luck!! And the high-vis gear is great, but never count on it ensuring that another driver sees you!

+1 on the SV650. Keep in mind that it is a V-twin and so will have LESS power than the usual 4-cylinder 600 (e.g., YZ600), which is good for a beginner and for FE. Motorcycle displacements can be misleading. I don't think it's too fast for a beginner: after all, the throttle turns both ways. And gearing it for FE would also reduce accel.

What's this escaping business? Is it now taught at MSF? It's a limited tactic at best. Better to anticipate and avoid escalating situations in the first place. The problem is that while bikes out-accelerate cars up to about 60mph, then cars take over.

Having that extra zip available almost certainly means a bike with poorer mpg in normal riding.

Anyhow, good luck!! And the high-vis gear is great, but never count on it ensuring that another driver sees you!

Lightfoot-

MSF does indeed teach the value of being able to make a quick getaway. Students are constantly reminded to shift into 1st while braking, "just in case".

As for escaping through throttle use- I am all too aware of how vulnerable a motorcycle is, having passed through Buffalo Grove within hours of a motorcyclist getting runover by an unwary driver. Further, A quick accel in a truck has directly saved at least 1 life I am aware of. Similarly, good brakes saved me just recently from getting any closer to a situation that came within a couple seconds of making the 9 o'clock news.

While I do not see it as a primary escape/avoidance mechanism, especially in overtaking situations being able to buy yourself another second or 2 by grabbing a quick handful of throttle can make a huge difference between just splitting lanes or controlled contact vs a higher delta crash.

For the Money and FE tradeoff, its too useful as another potential tool (especially for a newbie) to not have at your disposal.

I learned to be a wary motorcyclist early. I had a new 550 Honda Super Sport and was hit from the side by a Cadillac DeVille. My right leg made a large impression in the gas tank. It sprained my ankle, bruised my leg, and broke my little toe.

My advise on a first bike is anything from Japan from the eighties around 400-600cc. You should be able to find something decent for $500-1000. That'll be your best bet for a first bike, and it won't be a big deal if you drop it.

MAXX

Yes, there are lots of nice upright standards- Maxim Seca 400's,550.600 Radians+400+ 450 Hawk, plus 2 different Honda 550's,Kawi 550's,Suzuki 450+550-
But-a bike that old always needs some work(cables, brake pads, new MC, leaky petcock, brake lines kinda dodgy-always something)-
True, if finances are a primary concern, they can be a better deal.However one in really good shape might sell for $1500-say roughly $1000 less than a 2000 SV650 with 15000 miles.The SV650 is more bike, accelerates harder, brakes better, than any of them.

Dollar for performance, it is hard to beat the SV650. It gets just average mpg-about 40mpg, but it is a fun bike.I still think it is waaaaay too much for a first bike, but nowadays it is considered a beginners bike.
Charlie

MAXX- I love those 70's 80's bikes, but they always require lots of work when you buy them now(unless you find one that someone has already done the work on-which maybe you were suggesting)